The Case of Anthony Palma (Jim Can't Swim Imitation)

In the lexicon of forensic science, few terms have entered the public consciousness more than DNA evidence. DNA analysis was first used to solve a cold murder

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in 1987, when 27-year-old Colin Pitchfork was linked to the rape and murder of fifteen-year-old Lynda Mann and Dawn Ashworth after they The DNA profile of his blood sample matched that of the semen found on the victims over the following decades, the privilege and quality of DNA testing has steadily increased where before a blood sample the size of a quarter to generate a trustworthy profile. Remarkably small amounts of meth can now be used to confirm or exclude an individual's guilt with increasingly astonishing degrees of certainty, but in 1997 the technology was not quite ready.

It had to be to solve the disappearance of eight-year-old Kirsten Hatfield on the night of May 13. Kirsten was put to bed by her mother at her home on Jet Drive Midwest City, Oklahoma. The next morning, she was gone. The window in her room was open. and small blood stains were found on the windowsill as well as the six-foot cyclone fence in the backyard. Karsten's torn underwear was also found to be stained with blood. Blood samples were used to create a DNA profile, but unfortunately there were no suspects at the time of the incident. If the investigation did not add up to the

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, in addition to the devastating pain that must come with the loss of a child, the ambiguity surrounding the identity of the culprit would burden Karsten's parents with even more anguish in the form of suspicion due to the absence of a coincidence in any The suspicion of acquaintances and skepticism that a girl Karsten's age could have been kidnapped in such an apparently violent manner without making enough noise to alert anyone.

Suspicion that someone in her family played a role in her disappearance circulated within the ranks of Oklahoma law enforcement for nearly two years. For decades, the Karsten case remained completely cold. Midwest City police reopened the case in 2014 based on a tip in the process of the new investigation. The blood samples were retested by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation to create a new, substantially more accurate DNA profile. He saw several persons of interest who lived in the neighborhood on the night of Karsten's disappearance, including Anthony Joseph Palmer, 56, who lived just two doors from the Hatfield residence, although it was not known at the time of the original investigation that he also had a series of sexual assaults in his past Wanting to appear helpful and avoid suspicion, Palmer quickly made himself available to investigators and agreed to provide them with a DNA swab without objection.

The subsequent test resulted in a match with a certainty of two hundred and sixty-three six. For Tilian, it probably goes without saying that physical evidence of this magnitude is essentially insurmountable, with the odds that the blood found on Karsten's window sill and on his torn underwear could belong to someone other than Palmer, my news being incomprehensible and an innocent explanation for Palmer's blood. appearing in such places is comparable beyond the realm of conceivable, one might wonder why the police need to spend time on interrogation in these types of cases, but apart from an absolute confession that facilitates the work of the state, the objectives behind the interrogation police can vary beyond the simplest.

Seeking to obtain a conviction due to the morbid circumstances surrounding Kirsten Hatfield's disappearance, her family had long given up on the prospect of her safe return; However, they had longed for Kirsten to one day receive the dignity of a proper burial for this purpose, the detectives reasoned that if they could get Palmer to accept the severity of the evidence against her and the futility of maintaining her innocence, perhaps even though If only to selfishly achieve a small sense of redemption, I would grant the Hetfields that little bite of Solace's stomach problems in the toast and water they have actually preserved, so they give me very serious indigestion, it is true if I can sleep all night or sleep four or five hours, but I know exactly how gratuitous it may seem to include the part of this footage that simply features one of the detectives discussing his indigestion problems with the suspect, however, it is actually noteworthy. in reading technique.

Interrogation investigators with the most subscribers are encouraged to spend a portion of the time establishing a good rapport with the suspect before even discussing the case at hand, much less. When confronting them, it is recommended that the investigator try to find common ground with the suspect to install a sense of trust, but all sulfate and something you can't be nice to anyway. No, you said no, but I always feel guilty. Drinking or having someone bring them has a small advantage. Tell me they met you before and some other kind of thanks for coming here. Well, you know, I'm a state employee.

You know it's something we have to do right. I have to meet all the forces of oppression and here is Norman. where we are a little bad where we are still looking at the person who had children and who is coming back. I know over the years you weren't there the first time they said don't worry, you know Miller, what they told you about. You, more than 17 years, I know that in my life I have changed a lot and that is why we wanted to talk to you about whether you can tell me that seven years ago, in the period prior to this question, the detective is trying to reduce possible minimizations. of Palmer's crime 17 years is a long time.

I know I've changed a lot during that time. The idea is that when the time comes to confess, Palmer might feel that he has permission to partially excuse his actions. I was a different person. So it may be too early to even allude to Palmer's possible guilt in the early stages of an interrogation. The usual protocol is to take more of an information-gathering approach that establishes a baseline of the suspect's behavior for later comparison. Still, it will take some time. Before the first direct confrontation in Palmer, he certainly begins to become more talkative in the neighborhood.

I know I thought I had read some of the reports of the hit movies before and how I think they call you Uncle Tony out there because I care about the kids, you appeal to a house in Aikido, basically, when I moved there, I lived there, There was a group of older people looking to stay out of retirement, but most of the people in that area were older retirees and you know, I like to take care of my body. things all the time, you know, I was always outside and someone was working on their vehicle, I had to go hit a busy body, you know, help or someone, the washing machines broke down and the old people, you know, they think that because of the nights other people you know can't do things and I've always been mechanically inclined, you know where I could figure things out, you know, or help them do this, or you know, I've always been known for being friendly but neighborly, and I did my first house You know, I try to do it. work, that neighborhood was my home, yeah, well, did you help any of the kids there?

Well, we're not eating pizza, yeah, I've always been there, there's always, that's my Playhouse, well, I'm pretty much, that's always been my pet peeve. I grew up. hungry, you know and I'm not, there's a lot of hungry kids, you know, no, I don't like that, I mean, not where I would go angry, but I mean, when you see kids, you're there eating something and they know you saw it fall? I didn't thank you. I can't stand that, as my partner Landers said. We're still working on that field case. Okay, there are a few things we want to go over with you again.

Try to be as thorough as possible in cases like this and I'd like to initially go back to some of the things you've already talked about with the cashier in the past. I was not there. I'm about to do it. speed on some of it, but I understand the wind person disappeared, you were still living there right at 11:04 Craig, okay, would you mind initially taking us back to 1997 and going over that again, maybe that night before and that morning when all this starts to explode and the best thing is that you tell us everything here, brother, take your time.

I know we'll be back in the summer, yeah, I'm starting to get that old stuff, but it's really the only thing I can really remember is afterwards, you know Lee, you know, it was just a typical day, you remember something unusual about that night, now you stand out apart from what I told them, you know, seeing the white truck, you know, in front of the white Chevy truck in front of his guard, okay, you know, no, I like it, I said no, I had nothing to do with those people , I didn't know them at all, you know, it's not like I went, hey, yeah, you have to go.

Dude, no one, no one looked like that, I was usually outside working in my garden, you know, the best neighbors or kids would come up to me and say, can you fix my bike, you know stuff like that, you said you didn't know about it. I assume you mean Shannon Anderson, yes, and I couldn't even tell you how long they lived there. Well, actually I was going to ask you that so you wouldn't know how long they had been living there when this happened. to fight, they hadn't been there for a long time and tell me what you remember about that that you never saw a movie or something, no, no, trying to remember.

I daresay a friend of mine lived in that house. I can't remember his damn name. but he had a cleaning service Jenny King and Doc busy with him. I hope to put the fence around these halls. Have you ever been inside that house when that gentleman lived there? William arrived. I guess he probably dressed Shannon up and dressed her up. running around a grid and such, okay, really, until that happened. I guess I think the girl was once playing with the crystal that lived up the street and I don't remember if it was at that time for him or What if Palmer's innocence in this case was somehow possible?

So the most suspicious behavior of these last few minutes would be his constant effort to distance himself from the Hatfield family as much as possible. He had a reputation for being a friendly neighbor eager to help. with repair work and sometimes gave food to hungry children, there is nothing inherently sinister about all of this, in fact, quite the opposite, and having these traits would never make you a prime suspect in a child abduction absent other evidence. , but Palmer is adamant that he not only had no close relationship with the Hatfields but was barely aware of their existence despite his reputation as a neighbor again.

Imagine that you are innocent of any crime and they ask you if you have given food to a child, what would be your reaction? These firm and frank denials can actually be a good indicator of innocence, but they are expected in response to accusations rather than harmless questions, since there will never be a time machine asking for your help to fix this or that or mow the yard during one year. just pay the truth, you know, the only good thing and I didn't even recognize her when they showed me the photos for nothing, we thought that Americans actually studied, okay, yeah, I met her once after, she was going from one place to another from the street, you know?

She was still looking for her key and you know I met her once. I gave her some money so she would have gas money and she could continue doing what she was doing. You know, it was like that in the next few days or to talk to the guys. Let me catch up a little bit, we digressed a little. I had to go over what you remembered during the night again and I read the FBI notes they took when they talked to you. I guess so. There was information about you here on Dogs Mark, yes, I had a dog in the backyard, his name was Doug, around three or four in the morning you went for a run in hell, so just know, Brooke, believe it or not in my opinion.

In the neighborhood we still have skulls and opossums and stuff like that, bless other dogs you know, so I don't know why that woke me up but because it normally didn't wake me up and I normally ate outside anyway, but it woke me up and he . He was barking at that back fence on our back fence, but by the time you walked out my back door, I had a tree with a paper cup on it, so unless you went out there, you know you can see and I just yelled at him because you know, thinking there's another dog because there was always traffic, there's human traffic there, but usually there's other dogs, yeah, there were other dogs or cats, there's always animals to be there, so you know, I didn't take anything from it.

I just yelled at him and he came. I go in and I'm going to go back to bed so you actually let him go back into the house we say you open the back door I guess let her know did you go to investigate if you look down the alley something like that she's usually in the past when the idea was that was you know, whether it's another dog or people give that alley you know how to get through why I don't know because I mean, I don't know where you would go from house to house but there was always traffic, talking about theThat, you're a piece of shit, it's not about anything like this, I wasn't molested or abused, I was hated, but I found some good in this, you know?

He taught me a little bit and that helped me, you know, go through my life, I know some things about carpentry, you know mechanics, you know my habits to this day because he hated me, but the jack of all trades who didn't, No. Make me a monster too much. You know, something went too far. This might perfectly sum up why the four investigators and their varied array of strategies have been completely unsuccessful throughout this interrogation if the death of an eight-year-old child you didn't have. The previous connection was the result of something going too far, so what exactly was that?

The murder of children is widely and correctly considered one of the most heinous crimes a human being can commit and is only made worse if the CID killers are sexually motivated and one of the most fundamental pillars of obtaining a confession is being able to make believe. to a subject that if he gains the identity of a person who has committed the act in question, then he does not have to simultaneously give up his current identity of being a good person or at least not a fundamentally terrible one, researchers have used minimizations, questions alternatives, building relationships and pretending to understand, they have put pressure on, they have taken pressure off, they have appealed to Palmer's hope for redemption and, if stressed, the futility of his situation, all to In vain, perhaps one or more of these These approaches would have worked if Palmer had been accused of some kind of crime of passion - if he had murdered his wife, for example - then perhaps he could have been convinced that if he embraced a particular version of events, he could hold on to the self-image of something less than a monster that is something we will never know what we do know and what investigators will soon finally resign themselves to is that there is no version of the events or hypothetical motivations that would allow Anthony Palmer to give himself permission to appropriate this particular crime, no matter how objectively astronomically. he asked, the evidence is that he is guilty of it, he is not able to cross the last psychological barrier of owning it and accepting what it says about him, yes, do you have more smoke?

Go ahead and write together, giving one more chance to think. about what I'm saying, first, yeah, okay, okay, I want you to understand, and you probably already know, you're not going to leave this room without understanding anything and you understand that Fargo needed quite a bit of time for you to do that. Going to jail just because we don't have a body doesn't mean we can't accuse you of anything. I have enough evidence against you. Well, Tony, there's an arrest warrant on that bill signed by a judge and it's for murder. and judges don't sign that unless there's probable cause and to be fair to you, okay, to be fair to you, you're not going anywhere, you're going to be charged with murder and here's the deal on what you remember and right now.

We are interviewing each of your family members. You'll probably hear that we're already at your house next quarter. We will have backhoes. Ground-penetrating sonar. Cadaverous dogs nine meters high. Please laugh about that yesterday. What's so funny about that? 'We were all going to go to our backyard. I have dogs and cats, and that's every birth in that backyard. Enough was enough, I was watching something on TV like white barium or an animal show. No, we're not going at five and this is your chance because I mean you're not going to find Kirsten half built on Jordan, her on your property anywhere I can find her, I don't know, you passed out and he took her to somewhere, doctor, I didn't get it, who did what we did right?

What we're going to do is we're just going to leave it and you're that person who's been with Morris and that's the way the report is going to read because what I'm seeing from you is you. We couldn't care if we never found her and I did you can Terry let's just push it for me back to forty or opportunity on your back okay under arrest for murder kidnapping Kirsten Apple Anthony Palma didn't show much emotion this afternoon as read guilty verdict This verdict comes more than two decades after Kirsten Hatfield disappeared from her Midwest City home on May 14, 1997.

Hatfield's body has never been found, but prosecutors argued that Palma kidnapped and murdered the girl, a key piece of evidence throughout this trial was a pair of Karstens panties found in the family's backyard, those panties and the girl's bedroom window sill had blood on them and the DNA matched Palma when the verdict was read. Karsten's mother, Shannon, and her sister Faith broke down in tears and spoke to us just minutes after Palma was taken away. I can't explain it, but this miracle surprised us and we are so grateful that our hope returns to the criminal justice system.

Thank you Jesus and thank you to everyone who is here now. Palma will do it. I will be back in court next month to learn that the man who murdered an eight-year-old girl two decades ago will serve a life sentence for her death. Anthony Palma shocked the court when he waived his right to appeal his conviction. Kirsten Hatfield's family tells News 9 crime tracker Jennifer Pierce there's still a mystery that needs to be solved, Jim, that's right. Bobby Kirsten Hatfield's family was not only surprised but relieved when Anthony Palma waived his appeal rights. They believe it's only a matter of time before he reveals where he was buried. his daughter 20 years ago, Anthony Palma, 58, made his final court appearance and listened as the judge told him he will serve life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Palma also waived her right to appeal his conviction. Prosecutors say it's an unusual measure for what it's worth. I appreciate you doing that because it gives the family some finality. Don't use the word closure because there's no such thing as closure. They still came out these doors with some questions that need to be answered. Once a question has been answered, only one is condemned. The murderer can answer. They want to know where the body of eight-year-old Kirsten Hatfield is buried. She disappeared from her Midwest City home 20 years ago. Hatfield's sister and mother looked Palma in the eyes in court as they read the victims' testimonies.

They both told Palma that they forgave him. him, but we want him to take the authorities to the body of his loved ones, obviously, we have been praying for years, but we have been writing prayers and we hope that he can get them at some point and guide them, but only so that he can see . how serious are we Palma remained silent as he was taken back to jail. He will be transferred to take custody of him and live the rest of his life in prison. I hope that gets him to a place where he tells us so we can make an arrest.

On January 11, 2019, Anthony Joseph Palmer was found strangled to death in his prison cell, just 13 months into his sentencing at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester. His cellmate Raymond Pilato, who was also serving a life sentence on murder charges, was found responsible for Polymer's death. The motivation for the murder was considered repressive. baby killers were never smiled at in prison. His murder could be perceived as a piece of morbid karma, but tragically it served as a final devastation for the Hatfield family. Palmer died before he could do so. to reveal where and how he disposed of Karsten's body and to this day his remains have never been found.