Psychological Tricks To Manipulate ANYONE | Ep. 150

which I'm usually not completely out of it. I'm not on the show at all because obviously people know me at least in the In the UK, we had a kind of fic where he felt like he was part of a show that had then ended and was being filmed in England, then He comes home and left, and the process of change happened for him. He used these

psychological

techniques to change it and change his feelings about immigrants in particular, open up some empathy and change that and then, as I do this a lot with programs, the idea is that if they felt that if they know that they have been part of a program for the actual final test, there doesn't have to be anything.

He feels like it's part of a TV show, it has to be real life and something life-changing, so he comes home and then a couple of months later we've set up something he doesn't trust, believe. He goes to see a friend and in Las Vegas, but he gets stuck on the outskirts of Los Angeles, in the desert, the car breaks down and one thing leads to another and he's in the middle of this elaborate hidden camera experiment in the that you, like a weapon, point at yourself. I know that he has the opportunity to step forward and save a life by giving his own and it is extraordinary and there are very emotional things to go through a committee.

I mean, clearly, for the man these are very emotional things, but also for us and for me. you're going through this, they're very yes, she's spending like a year doing these things and you know they're very ambitious and difficult, you have to sustain a whole fiction for the person who's going through it, in addition to actually doing it. So yes, I have done several of these and they have been interested in illusion and persuasion, and you know good ways of living and thinking and that whole business of the stories we live and trying to put them into practice. kind of a good and entertaining use, what are we really looking at here?

Because I think a lot of people when they think about hypnosis they're thinking and I've seen this and other parts of your work where they take the guy outside and he wakes up in the grass and he's like, wow, how did I get out and then he comes back into the crowd or someone Will he walk across the stage and then click like a chicken? We don't necessarily think of subtle

psychological

manipulation or hypnotic suggestion. which is kind of what's happening, especially in sacrifice, where you're playing a jingle and it tells you something, you know, these kinds of suggestions for people to take certain courses of action, if you don't know anything about what you're doing . doing hmmm, there are probably a lot of people online and I haven't seen this, but I imagine there are a lot of people saying this is fake, the guy pretends that he is almost outdated.

I've always had a lot of that, I think. maybe it's because they're not necessarily things that work on everyone, so with most programs and it varies, but with most programs I'm using people that I've selected from a pool of applicants and you'll see, that's how the programs start here are the applicants and I have to choose one and I will choose the person that I think is suitable, so in the sacrifice, the Phil guy that we used, I needed someone with these strong views but also someone who is suggestible and and also It's important that with him he's not a monstrous, racist guy, he actually is, although you'll probably start to dislike him very quickly, you thought enough about the guy as he goes along.

I'm not bad for him at first. he didn't seem the smartest, like something he had obviously gone through, something that made him not like people who weren't white, yes he said it was his upbringing but it could also have been maybe you couldn't get a job . and he, yes, he was having a hard time, yes, an easy scapegoat, yes, and yes, he wanted some sort of everyday figure for us to relate to, not just some monster racing type, so maybe Maybe that's one of the reasons why people totally understand people. They're skeptical because it's pretty ambitious stuff, but if you choose a guy, if you choose someone, if you choose the right person, it obviously makes life a lot easier, so I'm not saying that these techniques that I use will just work.

Everyone who drops their hat wouldn't do it and I try to explain that throughout the program, once I have my guy, what I usually do is link strong emotions to certain triggers, either overtly with my participation or completely covertly and simply. something that normally happens in the guy's life, I will have some event happen that makes him feel something very close to a strong emotion and then there will be a sound or something that he sees or something that happens in that environment that steals that trait. it's like you know that when you break up with a girlfriend and a song never comes on the radio most of the time and you don't listen to the song for five years and then you listen to it again, it brings back all those feelings, so it's actually, It's very simple, it's a kind of conditioning, really an anchor, it's what the language of NLP is an anchor, a conditioning or a trigger, whatever, yes, but that's the idea, you're simply attaching emotions to two. triggers, so usually with these shows and sacrifices.

It's a good example. I want to get someone to a point where they do something extraordinary and life-changing without them knowing what the programs are about, so I can never address it directly, but what I can do is break down. Look at this last one as if you want him to risk his own life and save the life of someone else who is the last person he would stand out for, so I break it down, I guess, what are the components? of what is needed and, from time to time, those things alone can be framed as completely positive and quite benign things, why would

anyone

want a little more of the desire to act and feel more empathy or be more? more open or whatever, so I create situations where those things can be explored and created within it and then I secretly attach them to the triggers in the final scenario.

I can play or introduce those triggers at the same time and hopefully they were the onslaught of all of those. the things as they come together and the situation that is presented in front of him and this kind of opportunity that is there, hopefully, he takes the bait, that's not the idea and you know he's a changed man because of that, yeah, I I imagine. he has to rationalize that he did that of his own free will, so it's not possible that he really doesn't like it, yeah, I mean, with some of the shows that I did, one that was trying to take us with a very similar structure, but to make people stop. security van and steal £100,000 yes it's called the tallest again it's an older show as it will be somewhere on YouTube yes we'll put links to all of these so people come right.

I highly recommend them because they are sometimes hard to find. There's a little detail where you see them in the US like they're fake, yeah that was fascinating where they're holding on because I thought everything you did was fine, there was this whole prep room, but then the trigger was you. I'm just on the phone with them and all of a sudden they're walking down this empty street and they decide to raid the armored vehicle and I thought, but there's like five different triggers that go off, hey Carla, the color of this is the colors, they've been important. there's a slogan, there's some music playing in a passing car.

I used similar techniques to get someone to assassinate Stephen Fry, who is well known in the US. He is certainly a big name here and the idea was to see if Sirhan Sirhan, who is still in prison for assassinating Bobby Kennedy, always said that he was hypnotized by the CIA and it became one of those conspiracies like, oh. maybe he was, yeah, well, it's just that the question for me was, regardless of whether he was or not, is it possible, is it even plausible that the tech guy and him exposed what they did and how they did it, oh.

He did it, yes, yes, he has the whole story of how they did it, and you know the story of him. I mean, he's a pretty plausible guy too. There is a really tempting premise. You could do that? Could you make someone just believe? I mean, at the last minute. a blank ball isn't real, that's not a real number of bullets, he's obviously not going to hurt

anyone

, but as far as he's concerned, he's murdering someone using the same techniques, so wait, wasn't he Who did you say was on stage? In it the audience wasn't involved so they must have been scared, well that was another interesting thing so yeah basically the guy has re-watched what he thinks is a documentary on hypnosis which allows me to establish Detecto some of these triggers without him realizing what they are for because I can openly hypnotize him as part of a television show that he thinks he is a part of when in reality there is a hidden agenda, so the situation arises when he has just go to an event and have nothing to do. with us he has no idea we are filming, the audience is not involved at all and Stephen Fry who is his target, Stephen is there and he is carrying firecrackers, all he knows is scary, he knows this can happen, yeah, so He's on stage and then we are.

He set off these triggers and it was a polka dot dress that Sirhan Sirhan said was one of the triggers they wear. He was conditioned to feel certain things in the polka dot dress. There was a ringtone that we used. Someone's phone rang and it was a little jingle, little tune that he had also been conditioned with and now he does it, it doesn't deflect it, it's a spoiler, but it does it, but it was interesting because we had this whole crowd control thing set up. because what happens when? the 300 people in the audience released Stampede, yes the ones who were right walked the walk and didn't because there was something called normalcy bias which means in these emergency situations you just sit and look around, no one else panic, so don't do it. and then of course I had this idea that everyone was saying it was fake because why didn't the audience freak out?

But they weren't scared because they weren't scared. There was a story about a Pan Am flight that um. If I had landed on a foggy runway at night and another plane had taken off over it and ripped the side off of this plane and there was a period of a few minutes where people were able to escape before this plane was engulfed in flames. and the only people who did it were the ones who had been in a similar situation before or had training in this kind of world, everyone else just sat there and burned because they looked around and I was someone who would take care of it. it, okay, bystander effect, yes. it's it's like if you have an emergency, you know there's going to be a flood or there's going to be, you know it's just, oh, everything's going to be okay, it's not really going to affect me and it's like a natural bias towards It's going to be okay if this house was on fire right now. and you won't move I'd probably like it oh, it's just one of the things Daren likes, yeah, the fire alarm is a big test, isn't it? one thing you know it's not a real fire you know one thing you don't believe it anyway there was an interesting aspect but yeah but that's what I do my background is in magic and it's kind of a magical area of mind reading and over the years I have tried to move into this other area, but I also do theater shows, so yes, I hope to be on Broadway this year.

I did an off-Broadway show that we won the award for. Drama Desk Award, which is no big deal. I think it was a unique and unique week of theater production. It's one of those words we don't know. I don't know what the prize would be, but it was something like that, which is very important. It was amazing, but yeah, I did this version off-Broadway a couple of years ago and hopefully this year, hopefully, in the spring I should be there doing a Broadway version of it, so it's more of a stage show kind of thing. more traditional. but even then I try and I know the last show is about faith healing.

I did it faithfully, it was incredible. This is what Netflix was, yes, miracle, it's really good. I'm trying not to be super Fanning all over the place because I think that's the case. yes yes no no please bless my ego okay it was really interesting and that's something I want to ask about later but I know you were a Christian until you were in your twenties yes I was until yes it's very sad, yes. halfway through universities at one point, yeah, when you look at historical healers, old biblical miracle stories and things like that, knowing what you know now about influence, persuasion, psychology, illusions, how much of those things, how much are illusions, high technology and how much you think you expect. minute, this technology, if you will, existed about 3000 years ago this could be faked this could have been something that someone did as a scam and now it's this tradition and what we base our lives on I think well, I think in terms of me Sometimes people ask why you think the miracles in the Bible were just magic

tricks

.

I think it's the wrong question. I think how those stories came to be has more to do with how those stories are formed. after the event so you can know if you are a Christian communityI found that what worked was showing little clips of what I'm talking about, faith, anything, just little clips that would show those little scenes like that. and that's because they know what to do, yeah, which exactly happens in churches anyway because you see it happen over and over again on stage, so you're being educated as an audience member without realizing that the suggestion It's adjusting but I remember that within the first week there was a woman who showed up.

She had been paralyzed on one side of her body since she was a child and she is crying her eyes out. I guess she's in her 40s. Can you know? She moves it, moves her arm and night after night there were these. It is arid but very often quite dramatic very physical things but nothing is changing as if you had an x-ray before and after clearly there are no changes but in that gray area it is more about repeating to me this story in which they have settled about their ailment, You know, if you wake up every day thinking I can't do this because I have this, after a while it creates the problem, when maybe the physical side could have like I have a bad shoulder for a long time, I still have it and I got so used to it. to put on my jacket with a dead arm and roll up my sleeve with this.

I still do it. I don't know if I really need to do that now and if someone lifted me up. and I saved and said your shoulder is healed. I did a big fast. I said now, go ahead and put your jacket on and do it normally and with a little adrenaline that will kill the pain anyway. They'd probably trick me into thinking, "Oh my God." You just healed my shoulder. I've had v tears, so it's that kind of process, but the results were extraordinary and even then I started thinking more, maybe I could do this on a large scale and I could tell people what this is.

It's completely secular and it may not work, it may only work for the ten minutes you're on stage or it may stay or you may know it, but that's when you start to get angry and get into a whole ethical world of pain. because You know, I understand that you do this for your own good and it's okay if I don't do it exactly. So how do you not stop going crazy once you've seen it? But God, it was extraordinary and really eye-catching. -Revealing and literally revealing, sometimes you know blind things like sharing again, no not quite, as you know, organic blindness, but I think if they are kind they lived here, but they are only like 80% deaf, so now they are convinced . they can hear through that ear, yes, there are a lot of

tricks

that they use, so you're in the world of going outside of the suggestion that makes it work and turning it into just tricks, some of them, some of the mechanical tricks that I The healers have given me. passed off, there's a lovely one where you sit down a lot on YouTube if you type in the leg length, no that's the one yes you've seen it, one where they just loosen the person's shoes.

Again, if you believe it right, it's such a stupid trick that I think if you pull it off, if you approach it as someone who believes it, it looks like someone's, so you're showing like he's a guy with a short leg, that's why he limps and now we are going to lengthen the Lord is going to lengthen this person's leg and when you look at this person's leg I mean their heels are like in the palms of the healers so you see this leg stretch and then they walk without limping and it is one of the oldest tricks in the book and I sat on stage and asked a guy to do it for me, you pick someone with shoes that you can loosen and actually what you do is you all watch this leg lengthen so it doesn't you do it. the trick on that leg you do the trick on the other leg that you pulled first of all they don't limp right there's no problem with the leg you just say look they're limping that's what so they just go Well I didn't see him limping but he He said he was like, oh, so he must have lost it and you think you saw it then, they hold his feet like this and they stick one out so that the other foot. the other shoe just took off the heel a little so now it looks like if you measure the legs this leg is a little longer therefore this one is too short actually these legs are fine this one you just take off the heel and then As everyone looks at this foot and you say this foot is getting longer, you just slowly push the heel of the shoe towards that thought, but it looks like if you're looking at the other leg, it looks like I'm looking at the short leg, yeah, you're looking, you're looking at the other one, so it's kind of believable and interesting and then you make them run and say, look, they're not limping, they can run fine and everyone thinks about the healings that could happen.

It worked well anyway and they brought me into the audience and did this to me, my renowned healer in Dallas while we were making that documentary and the really interesting part that I left out was that it's not even remotely misleading to the person who's going through it and how strange and insulting it is that there is no sin in doing that person any good, it's just about showmanship, it's just about creating an effect for the audience that you really are. I pretty much mean it didn't bother me, but you're exploiting a potentially very vulnerable person who is there waiting for a healing.

God knows what's wrong with him, so that's all I want to say, it was kind of a pretty ugly, ugly thing, but yeah, remember. me from Andy Kyle, you know this Andy Kyle, the Filipino or I don't know, a Thai healer and he just starts laughing because he looks down while this guy scrapes bloody chicken meat off his gut and goes, oh man, yeah , the same. right, it's, it's, since they're doing it to him, yeah, and he sees it, he just says, this is it, yeah, yeah, yeah, which I've also done on stage, that's telling the chicken, throwing up and let the used pieces come out. pieces of sponge, it was a little less gross doing it every night, but yeah, otherwise the chicken guts are what get them, yeah, and they're like reaching into someone's stomach and pulling things out and again They are not always very convincing to the person. yeah, because it's like, oh I don't feel anything, oh well I have a magic spell so you don't feel the pain, this is your cancerous bad stuff, where do people learn this stuff?

It just can't be. I haven't searched online. but I guess there's no school to say, hey, you want to become a scammer, here's a bunch of tricks to feel the faith, yeah, and again, you know? To me, the interesting thing is that there is a strange parallel between that and saying that you know the secret, you know that you want to burn by manifesting things, yes, because the message is a kind of model of faith, but the message is like you know, pull your pills, the Lord has healed you and if at some point this illness comes back, which of course is going to be okay, that's good, you didn't have enough faith, maybe you even thought about taking a pill again or whatever , but either way it's your fault, certainly not the lord's fault and it's certainly not the healers, it's your fault because you didn't have enough faith and in the secret she explicitly says it's your fault, you didn't believe enough, you didn't know , you know how you're supposed to visualize whatever it is you want.

Unfortunately, it's always about money and jewelry, yes, necklace, yes, and then you have to act like you already have what you have to totally commit to it, which I think is so damaging, it's the same thing, the problem is that just create. anxiety and a feeling of failure and guilt when of course that sometimes isn't going to work that model of believing in yourself ignore all the haters ignore the haters ignore the naysayers believe in yourself have a vision and stick with it is occasionally a model for success it is also a perfect model for failure in the tropics we never read the biographies of entrepreneurs who failed because they don't read them it's called survivorship bias yeah, follow your dreams and it's like, oh, that sounds great look at Mark Cuban, this rich businessman He says it right, there are another 10,000 people for every one of them who are at home on their mom's couch like the Apocalypse guy who left.

I'm following my passion but I'm not making money, yeah, exactly, and you don't tend to. read I was lucky, I was very lucky, right, no, no, we see the guy who spent 30,000 hours trying to figure out how to convince people using a jingle, fake news, and other psychological triggers. How much practice do you think you have? I have had, yes, a total of about 40,000 hours. 30,000 hours. Have you ever tried it? No, no, I don't know. I started when I was 20 and now I'm 47. Now I have very soft skin, but hey, thank you, yes, yes, that's a lot.

It's a lot of practice and a lot of trial and error. I guess so, I remember having a really pivotal moment when people would come to my rooms like when I was a student and I would hypnotize them and I remember that I. I would leave them if they responded if they were good. I would leave you with a suggestion if you came back and it said sleep. Click with your fingers. They would go straight to sleep. You need I need we have jet lag. days she left I'm sorry that's not a toy and this guy came back and I thought he had reached my size before and I told him I can't sit down look at me and sleep and he went straight away and then I did whatever the hypnosis was and then I realized I'd never met him, so I'm thinking well, how did you do it? and none of the groundwork was there, so why did she respond to me? snap your fingers and say sleep, which clearly there's nothing magical about doing that and then I thought, well, actually it was just my belief and my trust at the time and the fact that he again, fortunately, was very suggestible, did that that would work. so things like that just don't necessarily come from hours and hours, I mean, I guess so, but then it's not about technique per se, more than just the realization of I think all I do is see things from another perspective. person's point of view and just that's the toolbox that's the toolkit since someone else is in progress what participating population is so suggestible where you think maybe you can put him to sleep or maybe not so suggestible but probably link those people respond well to placebo, you're probably dealing with the same kind of things that you know in the Venn diagram of those things, but probably thirty percent maybe something like that, okay, but what I do helps a lot , then it depends on what.

You want it when I'm doing my stage shows and I have a couple thousand people who like the faith healing I was doing. You know, I could get 300 people to show up out of an audience of let's say 3000 and then. I could get top 10, so now you're dealing with a small, yes, genuine Ascenta, they always will be, and that 1% in a room will always be something extraordinary, right? that helps those kinds of things, it doesn't mean that they can feel like the whole audience is responding to something, whereas the reality is that you're narrowing down the best so you can create the illusion that it's more successful.

Yes, that makes sense, what are you looking for with these suggestible people? Yes, as in the push, for example, you test them. Hey, who gets up and sits down when they hear the bell? Yes, yes, Netflix, but other things work. Do you ever just walk? On the street and you see someone and you go, this person has these non-verbal characteristics of a highly suggestible type of person, does that exist? I've done it for a long time and I've stopped trying to do it. that because I don't, it always surprises me, I mean, you know, openness and a natural tendency to accept ideas, etc., I feel like it should be a good meaning of suggestibility and many times it is, but I know how I am socially with people.

It probably sounds like I'm not a very good hypnotic subject, but I'm probably pretty receptive to things like Percy Beau or things like I'm not just an expert that I admire telling. things that I will absorb and take as my own, which is another form of suggestibility, but I am not very receptive when a hypnotist hypnotizes me. I think something in my ego made me see that, and in the same way, people who seem very distant and seem very nice, you know, with their arms crossed like the last person you would think would respond sometimes, that it all comes from a strangely unsafe place and if you get them into the right kind of interaction, that hypnosis is, suddenly they become. hypersensitive, so I gave up.

I stopped trying to predict it. I do it in situations where I can rule it out among a large number of people and work with those who are right, find the answer. Yes, yes, how do you do it? invent some of the tricks or illusions. It's like you're walking through the mall with your partner and you're like, do you know what would happen if I made something like that come to life and then disappear? Pretty good, right, no, I don't know, maybe not. I usually have a two-week period where I'll say with stage shows it's like a month, but TV shows maybe a couple of weeks where I've had to come up with an idea, so with Television has nothing to do with magical effects of any kind, it is something like what we can like in the push, for example, which is another one on Netflix in which we were thinking about generating new ideas. of plots for one of these things to put someone through and then, out of some kind of frustration, I can't, it's just a big party, we're all actors, except for one person, andago, so that was the approach I took with those things as well, so they're a mix of something real or real. a little bit modified, I would say certainly theatrically, a little bit modified because ultimately that's the part that you know is the really fun part will be seeing how it was, how it was made and also anyone can show the things that are kind of visual because it's like if you were watching them on television and some of the things are some and you.

You're trying to tell a very clear story of how you did it, it doesn't always lend itself to those you know, that kind of clear visual narrative, so yeah, it's kind of a mixed bag, but I thought I had license to address it. the same kind of theatrical sense as the trick itself. I think you're right because if the answer is oh, well that's just a guy with my same build in a mask, it's like oh, but if it's like no, this group of kids. I had the shirt and then there was the sign in the pub.

Yeah, while they were driving they saw three signs and they've been here all week driving back and forth, so it's been on repeat in their brain or they think it's like the beginnings. sounds enough, yes, in theory they would have worked, so that's a better explanation, then, well, they actually chose a bunch of other things and this giraffe happens to be the most convenient item for them to pick up at that moment, yes, it can be a mix. a mix, I think it's um, that's part of the fun part for me, particularly with those early things, you know, some of it is real, some of it isn't and what was my experience, you know, hypnosis suggestion. all those things that are real in any real medium, but that's real, that's not my people, it kind of plays along or instantly is what it is and then and then the magic side, the spell side, your tricks they decide where you go to get an effect and you I know you're looking for an illusion so it was all somewhere in those two worlds and I think that's what made it fun yeah I like the idea of ​​it being a perception without a man, without a path, yes.

Is there anything we can do if we even think about this? Is there anything we can do to counteract that? Because it seems a little dangerous if we are so easily influenced by these things. Should we make an effort to maybe pay attention? That's because not everyone does it with ghosts. Look, now your life is really happy. Now you value your family more because of this fake zombie apocalypse. There will be many other people who will leave. Now we're doing this horrible thing as a country because we were all convinced that um it's the Jews or now we're doing this horrible thing to this because it makes us forget it like it's scary to think that we're so easily influenced and we don't understand it, yeah, and We can't counter it, yes, there is a kind of self-defense for this.

I think there is no obvious self-defense. I think a lot of those things that happen are environmentally, those kinds of influences and things that are happening. about that, we don't realize, they are influencing us, they have parallels within us psychologically, you know, Carl Jung said that the biggest bird that the child has to bear is the unlived life of his parents, right, they will be welcomed. I have a lot of insecurities, go back to having a notebook, yeah, that's a starting point and then you know from a young age we develop these templates of what relationships should be, what love is, who we are in relation to this world, do you?

You know? We essentially get the message that you are small and weak and the world is big and strong and and this is all a kind of setup, isn't it? It's the same thing that happens environmentally and then you grow and all of that feeds your relationships well, most obviously what you demand from your partner what you project on them the things that you try to hide from yourself and them those things always come back and bite you in some way. way the things you choose overcompensate to become addicted to know that this is happening all the time inside of us and the best thing we can do is try to be more aware of those things that are essentially unconscious because they only exist, they only belong to you and they are unconscious and the moment you have something a kind of conscious appreciation and you know you lose some of that power and I think that's the best we can do and we can only do it within ourselves and we can only work on ourselves and do the best that we know we can, so I think there's a parallel there, I think it's fair and you'll never be able to fully get to that union path of individuation as he called it, you know you'll never be able to, you'll never be able to get to the end when you've become the you you're really supposed to be. being outside of all these influences is just your journey and I think what's the best we can hope for in that parallel example of what's happening environmentally if we have all these influences around us and we have hypnosis that's not fake, right? realistic and we are creating compliance in people, at what point do we decide that humans at our level of free will are perhaps much more limited than they would like?

Do you believe in free will? I think it's kind of a more philosophical concept, but I'm fine. I think in life, a big part of growth is realizing that things in life are ambivalent, ambiguous, complex, messy and active, they are things like happiness, we reduce some nouns and when we do that, they certainly become nice things that we can put in the box and then it's not happiness, it's really an active verb, it's a messy verb and in the same way we love and hate things at the same time, things are right and wrong and as hard as it is to accept that the left and the right are doing something valid and important, the right world is protecting the group and the left world is protecting the individual and we actually need both in one way or another. so life is complex and ambiguous and I think we are simple, yes, and we know, and simple good and evil exist, so the point is that both must exist, so my answers are free will, I think both .

I'm very happy to let you both sit. I think in some ways, of course, you can argue that everything is caused by previous things, so there's no point in talking about free will, but the problem with that is that it's almost too easy. There is no point in talking about free will, so why bother doing anything or trying to change something about yourself or trying to gain some mastery over something, at least over yourself at all? So I think it also makes sense to talk about it as if it is real and I think they are just two models to understand the same thing.

I don't believe it. I just don't think it makes any sense to say yes or no and then end it there. I just think it's useful no, I don't think it's a reflection of how we live the dangerous, of course with that approach you end up agreeing with everything, but I think it reflects more than reality, is there a way to use some of these? some mentalism for personal growth or I think self defense was one of the uses at the top, there was a guy who got caught shoplifting, yeah it was like this happened to me, the wall around my house He's not four feet tall, yeah, guys like whatever, yeah, yeah, that's a good example, but this actually happened to me in real life.

I wasn't shoplifting, but I was sure you were borrowing it. Just bored. I was walking from hotel to hotel quite late at night. I was in a magical place. convention in Wales I was wearing a three-piece velvet suit because, why not, why not, and I mean, short of being punched hard in the throat, tattooed on my face, yeah, I looked clearly looking for a fight, like that What this guy is, you know? He's really drunk and he's clearly looking for a fight and he's with his girlfriend and all the adrenaline from him, you know, up here and he starts yelling at me and says something like what are you looking at?, what's your problem or something like that? ? my only toolbox is just the other person's experience, it's really all I can work with so I told him because in that situation you can't respond with oh I'm not looking at anything because then you're defensive and they have power or yeah, I'm looking at you what's your problem because either way you're going to get hit, you're probably right, you're furthering that dynamic they've established that you just can't play around with. that game from the beginning, so I said the wall outside my house is not four feet high.

That's where this phrase came from, like I said it on that occasion, so it makes sense, it's a statement that doesn't make sense within that context, so now you feel like you're missing something, so now you're on the defensive, so that your reaction to that is kind of pause while I what and I said that the whole worn out dinner house wasn't four feet high when I lived in In Spain, the walls there were pretty high, but here so small, I mean, They are nothing, so I think there is a martial arts technique that is an adrenaline rush, something similar, I think where before you hit you have someone, you make someone relax.

You better catch them off guard, so this is why all his adrenaline kind of spilled out. I was hoping to basically confuse him well and then put his feet down or do something more overtly hypnotic because that confusion. The state renderings are very suggestible, but what really happened was that he just said oh and started crying, his girlfriend left and he sat on the side of the road. I sat next to him and began to ask what had gone wrong that night. I think his my girlfriend had bottled up someone there had been a fight and strangely I'm giving her advice yes but it only happened because she had been talking about what to do in those types of situations @qa things she had been doing after the hypnosis shows and I said the only reason I was in my head and ready to play it like that was because I had talked about it theoretically, but the idea is, I mean, it can be the lyrics of a song it can be just not playing that game that the other person is setting up and making you feel like you've missed something and then the dynamic completely changes immediately if you're being executed with a knife, okay, there's not much.

There's room for this kind of thing, but you know it's like if you're on a train and you want to keep the seat next to you free, don't put your bag there because that's what everyone else does so they know what you're doing. and they're going to get mad, they pat the seat, they nod and smile at people as they walk by, but no one's going to want to sit here, just yeah, I'm ready, take a seat, so yeah, so that was the one that ended up being my type. . The self-defense technique was having lyrics to a song or something, or I was talking to a friend of mine about this and he was an artist and he used to walk home from his studio late at night through a difficult area.

London and there were always like gangs on the side of the road so he would always cross away from them and then of course they would always see that and it's always that horrible, uncomfortable, intimidating thing so we talked about it and then , the next night, he crossed the street towards them and said goodnight as he walked past them, but of course they left him alone because he looked like a stranger, yeah, he's crazy, he's weird, yeah, goodnight, so yes, he wants to see a magic trick, no, thanks. away with the mice, yeah, what do your parents think about your career choice?

I imagine they're watching your show and they're like the audience is winged and watching and they're like, oh, do you think it's a surprise, our religious son? Christian boy pence, he is a, yes he is a gay atheist, now you want a surprise and that was this theistic approach, okay I am stating that gay theists are now a trademark that they seem proud and happy, neither of my parents He went to college or something, so I guess when I get home and leave, I'm not going to have this conversation. I'm not going to be an international lawyer, so I was doing more in German.

I'm going to be a magician, my mother. He said: oh great, that sounds ugly. I thought she was so okay with it that I thought okay, maybe I need to rethink that maybe it was a bit of a rash decision on my part, but it all worked out and that's where the persuasion comes from. a good idea, would you tell him when you said he would become a magician? I told him it's a great idea, he'll never do it now, yeah, yeah, but it turns out I did, but um, yeah, that's what there was at a time very relaxed approach I wrote them a letter in my first year at the university because I was with all these law students who felt terrible because they weren't going to pass their exams, not for themselves, as far as their parents might think and I had never experienced that. so I wrote them a letter saying thank you very much.

I realized you let me do what made me happy, which I assumed everyone did and now I see that's not the case, so you think he's having kids at some point is in the cards for you guys, oh I don't know , we've been talking about it, so I'm 47, I'm sure I've come a long way, very caught between that, you know how Nietzsche talked about, becoming who you are so I think I had a vertical sense that this is my life and I need to do that and everything else needs to clear the way and it's all quite selfish, but there is thatimpulse that it doesn't feel good to take on other responsibilities like having two dogs and that's kind of an affront to that impulse and then the other advantage, which is the kind of leveling out the vertical impulse of or maybe that sense of being who you are is already in the relationships that you have and these things that maybe that's who I am and you know it that's who I am I'm at an age where I'm me I think that's partly what middle age means when you get a little bit caught between your ego, your ego, it has to go down, that is being young again in terms of you have slain the dragon in the first half of your life and now you have done it.

To rescue the princess you have to go to the second half of life. I think it's about serving something else, finding something that's bigger than you and finding meaning in it. I think it's too quiet, something kids will naturally do. I just haven't made my way. I am completely at peace with that idea. Not right now, but it's a, you know, it's a discussion, but I'm still so many things that I just do and demand my time, yeah, I don't know, and you have it all. this whiskey, yes, I also have a lot of whiskey to drink, which is not necessarily right now, although boy, somewhere here on the side of the road, you don't drink that much, otherwise they would all be gone right before I pass.

I consider myself an alcohol, right, yeah, yeah, you might have to. That would be a difference. There's a lot of whiskey here. People can't see it, but hey, maybe we'll do some extra surprises. Yeah, thank you for using your platform also to help people because a lot of television is, I mean, at least, it doesn't help humanity and you see things like the apocalypse, the push sacrifice where these people's lives change, yeah, well, that's what there will be. The things you know a man will be proud of is that television is a pretty fatuous occupation, but if you know from time to time when something happens in the real world that has helped that person, that's genuine, that's a nice thing.

Don't do these shows so often that people are just being produced on some kind of conveyor belt or some kind of makeover practice. I only like one of these things a year, so all these people have become friends, you know? I've stayed in touch with them and part of me wants to make sure the work of the show continues the way they do, it's not really just a show where they didn't feel good for a moment and then left. get back to where they were, that's important to me too, so yeah, thanks, what are you designing now?

A Broadway show that you said was a show you've done before. Are you constantly designing new things or thinking about new dreams? or new tricks that you can put somewhere, so I'm okay, where am I now? I'm hoping for a Broadway show in the spring, so I'm just waiting to hear it in a theater so it could suddenly happen in April or not, it could be later in the year or not at all. I am starting a new book or understanding a new book, so I will write this book about happiness as clearly as possible. it will be tied to the Earth that is shown, thank you because it is now available in the United States, which is something quite new and it is very much about stoicism and an approach to happiness is very different from the normal kind of approach of a book of self help.

I'm starting to think about a second book about those kinds of questions, if you know what it is to really flourish and be human, and then I guess there will be another television thing that there is right now. There are three shows on Netflix, there's the push, which is the guy who gets pushed out of the building, the miracle story, which is the stage show, right to healing by faith and sacrifices, that's the new one, so we're working on a room, these are all projects for this. year and then maybe even looking at Europe, there are other kinds of countries that seem to have had my TV shows for a while.

I've never gone there and performed, that will be fun, so yeah, there's a lot of fun stuff. Exploring Broadway is what I enjoyed so much now before they do it that hasn't happened yet it seems like I brought us some Broadway shows that aren't even close it's interesting to see something you would do live oh but I. I was also very surprised at how long it took us to get there. Hey, this guy Darren Brown knows what he's doing because he used to find this stuff on YouTube ten years ago or whatever, maybe not even YouTube, maybe some other video, say, ten years ago. and I was like this is amazing how this isn't more popular and I'm sharing this stuff and then I'd be like, have you heard of Darren Brown?

And people say oh, I don't know and I. I'm like the Netflix guy and then of course now I show it to people and they're like, "This is amazing." I'm thinking about how long it will take for people to understand what the work is, what's going on here currently. We also kept the show away from the stage a little bit, so they sold them out and, all over Europe, but we stayed away from the United States because that meant we could do it properly at some point and in a kind of yeah. into a more concerted effort and make it all happen as part of a plan at some point.

I don't, I never have any ambition or anything with these things, so I'll leave it to the adults, you know. I plan my career that way, I just like to do what's fun and everything seems worthwhile at the time, but that's why we don't do it. We actually suppressed it in recent years, in some ways we have been doing well, but some study. some things, that's why it's little by little now, that's exciting, that's exciting, I mean, because you're essentially a household name in the UK, yeah, yeah, well, I don't know, but yeah, certainly nobody tells me.

Known in the United States, yes. Jeff and now a lot of other people too, so hello, yeah, thank you very much. Pleased to meet you. Thank you very much for inviting me. Thank you. Jen.