Exorcism - Dangerous dealings with the Devil | DW Documentary

I am Father Roman, I have been a priest for about 12 years and an exorcist for eight years. I have no doubt that God and the

devil

exist. I have real evidence that the

devil

is here, that he is active and that we must be careful. To many, he really believes in the devil, it sounds like medieval law, but in the 21st century, Satan is returning. Some people have no doubt that the devil exists, including those who persecute him. Exorcists generally keep a low profile, but we encountered several. to see what you have to say, we are delighted to welcome you here for the baptism of him.

A baptism is always a very special occasion and an opportunity to meet a future member of the community. We make this sign on the forehead in the Catholic tradition when someone is baptized they sometimes undergo an initial

exorcism

upon entering the church at baptism we try to banish all evil from the heart ancient scriptures describe the notion of a minor

exorcism

to be performed To the child, the priest at that time would explain that it was not about bad actions but that it was our human nature that required purification because we are marked by original sin.

I baptize you in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit. Amen Amen VOA there is a title. You're totally fine. With a completely yes, there are many myths among the general public, but I totally subscribe to them. I don't see why we shouldn't talk about it. I usually meet people here at the rectory, it is a religious building with statues and religious symbols. At this point we already have an idea of ​​the level of infestation or irritation of a person. A person who is severely spiritually infected cannot even cross the rector's door.

Here I have a container with the Eucharist inside. If anyone on his team was possessed, he would do it. You already left this room because it provokes a very strong reaction, you have the host in your pocket exactly and another thing when I examine a person who feels possessed, I sprinkle him with water that has not been blessed. If the person reacts very strongly, that indicates that he is psychosomatic. and I can say that there is a good chance that it is not a reaction from the devil because the water was not blessed, if you break your leg you know why and how it can be cured, but if you have a spiritual problem you are completely helpless, do you present yourself as an exorcist? it exists no, I don't talk about that many of my parishioners don't know that we have all age groups a little more women than men sometimes parents bring their children sometimes teenagers generally come because they are struggling with a deep Mala Mala They feel things inside them that they cannot explain, sometimes they have already seen a psychiatrist and feel that the diagnosis did not resonate or that the psychiatrist did not understand what they were experiencing.

I visited fortune tellers or card readers and at some point someone said what you have is terrible. I can not do anything for you. You have to go to an exorcist and then they just assume that the village shaman, which is me, will solve the problem immediately. prayer, but that's not how it works. I remember the first time I heard that you could pray for people who had practiced spiritualism, a person came to confession and said: I have been practicing spiritualism for a long time. I don't feel well. I do not do it. I know what's going on and I said listen okay I'll give you absolution and then I'll pray for you and when I started to pray she started yelling at Ed you're hurting me and I realized something unexpected was happening.

I was amazed. that a prayer could do something like that things I've never seen before like a person rolling on the ground a person reacting because he was wearing the stole things like that it's amazing, it really works how much this book is about exorcism rituals and supplication prayers it's not something you can find in any corner bookstore. Can I read about these rituals? You could read it, but there aren't many copies in circulation. It is generally handed over personally by the diois and the bishop to the priest in charge of the exorcism. It is like giving a scalpel to someone who knows nothing about medicine or surgery.

It is

dangerous

if it falls into the wrong hands. How the exorcism is carried out. What is it like? Can you describe it? ? I adapt the ritual to the person and their individual needs during the first stage the dominant feeling is hostility as if there is something that wants to bring us down this is the stage of irritation or obsession when someone reaches the infestation stage there are stronger symptoms the person discovers that objects have been moved around the house it feels bad it smells waking up at night in terror or feeling a presence unfortunately for these people this is often only seen or felt by them this is an infestation the last stage is possession this is extremely rare the person escapes from themselves often it is not the person who reports but the people around them say listen, I don't know what is happening, suddenly they have gone into a kind of frenzy, I no longer recognize them, the person is no longer themselves and what is also quite common in possession is levitation, see? the body contorts and the person speaks a language he does not know, that is very disturbing, evil wants to silence, have you seen all this with your own eyes, yes, it is also a phenomenon that looks like normal vomiting at first, but it can last 10 to 15 minutes.

It doesn't seem to stop me at all. I think it really is the devil. It's hard to believe or even imagine. What do you say to the skeptics? I can only report what I have seen with my own eyes at the risk of being called crazy, but I don't. You don't care about that, so you really believe that the devil exists, yes, without a doubt, and I think the church needs to be clear about that. The Catholic Church has always recognized the existence of Satan, but has long been focusing too much attention on him at this time. changed with the inauguration of Pope Francis in his speeches the Pope proclaimed that the devil really exists, thus legitimizing the practice of exorcism, but in Switzerland some representatives of the Church oppose this fear-based approach in 2022 the bishop of Chur announced that he would eliminate The Exorcist A publication in his dasis generated a debate during the time of my predecessor, we had an exorcist monor, Kristoff cassetti, an influx of people came to him from our days, from other days and also from abroad, which created a demand, but the need for this is not seen there.

It is a necessity because many people are suffering, they feel tormented, hurt and exhausted, but a team of experts must be formed that can respond to these requests. This requires cooperation and exchange between different experts, not only priests but also psychologists and psychotherapists, people trained to recognize what situation. a particular person is inside I read in a press release that exorcism problems can be treated with medications and psychiatrists. I'm sorry but that's crazy, that would mean there are no extraordinary demonic acts if they can be treated medically, but it really saddens. For me it is hearing that there is no priest there who can help people in need for me it is a step backwards on the part of the church I think it is a great shame to speak as a former soldier I believe in doing my duty at all costs and this duty includes freeing souls and expelling satan when he is there if the church moves away from this duty others will intervene ex of the catholic church these days be careful it is very

dangerous

I understand you I am sure you have the mandate of the bishop but that does not mean that you have a gift for this work they distrust the devil Pier Dulong was ordained a priest in the Gacan church a branch of the Catholic church not recognized by Rome we meet the healer and exorcist in a small village in the Gars department in the south of France and we are not the only ones waiting for him there is a hive of activity outside his farm the reputation of this demon hunter dates back to the 70s I feel a little depressed and tired I still feel blockages your inner being feels exactly what it is the spirit but that is normal it can take many months do not worry it is because you are still possessed normally Catholic priests do not allow exorcisms to be filmed but pong is not shy in front of the cameras when the gift of healing was revealed to me an inner force arose in me stronger than I people who come to me many times they have tried everything nothing works for them and they don't understand why since I got here I felt bad it's something inside you you're still possessed when nothing else works that's often what's behind it not always but you have to check you don't know why it happens I see myself doing it but I can't help it I suppose you have had treatment yes I have been to a psychiatrist and psychologists I am a nursing assistant, so I am familiar with conventional medicine.

The symptoms correspond to what doctors call depression. Demonic possession or not. During the 45 minute session we witnessed real agony. The person may lunge at you. You can't be alone with that. kill you he speaks badly there is dialogue sometimes one time I asked him what his name was and why he was in this body I said that the body was not his and to give it back to God what did he say are you bothering me now you can It doesn't hurt me 3/4 of the people who come to me now have practiced spiritualism wanted to know something or talk to their grandfather grandmother uncle but be careful, this is dangerous, the demon will speak exactly as your loved one will pretend to be. them but it is the demon that I fought with Lucifer and even Satan had a hoarse voice and eyes he spat at me it was terrible and as you know that the demons are gone I have won if the person has eliminated him the person has to eliminate him from the front or from behind I need to sit down.

What are these sessions like? do you remember them? I'm aware of everything you hear yourself scream yes and that's really disturbing, did you ever think you'd feel possessed? I'm in a negative vicious cycle, there's a part of me that says yes and then there's another part, but it's good that I was able to come tonight, it's good for you, can you go home? How many exorcisms have you done in the last 40 years? I don't know, probably thousands how much €45 costs exactly the same as 40 years ago, don't forget that they are the sessions on violence, yes, terrible, a person spit out a snake, a snake, yes, for so long I have seen people speaking Spanish who didn't know it or Arabic, German, no. can you understand a person who was possessed for four or five years was levitating four people tried to hold her she levitated levitation levitation Height yes 50 cm incredible she stayed there for a while and then fell again are you aware that some viewers will think you are completely crazy or that you are a charlatan, of course, when it is not you who has the problem, it is easy to call someone a charlatan, but when that changes and Medicine cannot? help and no one else can do it, then you might be happy to meet a person like me, a person like dong, who speaks unknown languages, knows unknowable information, has superhuman powers, crude criteria that the Vatican has recognized signs of possession, but...

Is there any rational explanation? In search of answers from the medical profession as a scientist, to what extent do they see them as signs of possession, I leave that diagnosis to the exorcists and the Vatican. These are extreme situations that psychiatrists do not see in hospitals. An example is levitation, it is said. that the possessed person rises above his bed, anyone would be scared to see that, but there is a symptom in severe psychiatric cases where people suffer terrible muscle contractions and form an arch, if there is a sheet over them, it might seem They are floating, what if these priests told you that they saw the devil in action?

Well, I do it too every day, as a doctor who works with addictions, you have 20 year olds with a heroin syringe in their arms telling you that life sucks, I mean, if that's not the devil? Despite his scientific training, Jac Bon advocates the use of exorcism within an appropriate framework. The psychiatrist has collaborated with priests in their practice of spiritual liberation. I think we need to move beyond these outdated Hollywood exorcisms, you can't be scared. Nowadays there are people with a snarling horned demon. I think it would be a good idea to develop a contemporary approach to exorcism.

We must accept that evil exists, it is something that worries people and that they are left with unsatisfied spiritual needs in a disenchanted world. plagued by existential emptiness seeking a common existential emptiness satisfying spiritual needs that is exactly what the Evangelical Church claims to offer we are at the Gospel Center or a place of worship in the heart of the industrial district of Oron Laille in French-speaking Switzerland for these believers Life is a constant battle between good and evil. Demons are everywhere and the pastor's job is to chase them away. The founder of the Evangelical Center is Vana Lemman, a charismatic figure revered by the congregation for his powers of Liberation.

God distributes his gifts and I believe that I have received many spiritual gifts but we are not superhuman. I think the term exorcism often scares people. I think Liberation is usually a more appropriate and less scary term. You don't have to tie people down. I've never had to hold anyone down. So that they don't hit me, people pay you for the release, no, no, I don't try tomake a living praying for others and the fact that others make money from it doesn't bother me what liberation is it's when someone has something in their life that prevents them from living a good normal life all people have suffered wrongs things that have happened to them hurt when people wallow in hate absolute unforgiveness and deep anger opens up to the evil spirits that torment them let me explain how the enemy works I would say the most common entry point is rejection I was on vacation with my wife I met to a woman who became agitated when she saw me the spirit threw the woman to the ground and began to speak said this is my house and I will not leave I will kill her and you will have a dead woman on your conscience I spoke to the spirit normally she did not say she was there because the woman's mother had cursed her, my wife grabbed her by the wrist and said in the name of Jesus I will untie you.

She then told us her mother wanted to abort her but it was complicated and in her desperation her mother said that the child was from the devil. I told him to say Lord Jesus I was freed from this curse and the spirit said I want to go, we prayed for him and he went, if a deliverance works, it gives you a kind of power. I don't think so, so I think that power never really resides with us. we have an authority that has been given to us by God, it has been given to everyone who is a believer, but you should never feel the need to say yes, I can free you, I have the power or something like that, but it helps you to be charismatic, yes, for Of course we talk. about surrender, but paradoxically during the Liberation process people seem to be more tied to the evangelical worldview and demonological symbolism than before.

What is quite perverse in this relationship is the asymmetry: it is always the pastor or spiritual leader who knows what is good for the person. On the receiving end that person is systematically placed in an asymmetrical relationship where he is inferior. The pastor uses his words to describe the person's disturbances and to experience Liberation he must agree to enter the symbolic world of the pastor. It is an extremely high price to pay. They feel liberated and have to internalize a vision of the world in which demons are everywhere. I am a Christian. I am married and have two children.

I am 50 years old and I lead the Evangelical Alliance in French-speaking Switzerland. I have been practicing Liberation for 30 years and I have seen that it works. I don't see the devil or angels. I see demons and evil spirits in a Deliverance. You may see them, hear them, or smell them. There are some spirits that have a very specific smell. Spirits of control, religiosity, dominion and witchcraft smell like ammonia based on my experience in addition to his role as leader Ain al as bishop Christian is also an expert on demons he even organized his first demonology courses for future pastors in French-speaking Switzerland you are a God very hard, are you afraid?

No demons, no, the authority of Jesus Christ encompasses everything. These Spirits are cornered, so sometimes they try to trick you or disguise themselves. Some Spirits also claim to be Satan, which is ridiculous because Satan does not incarnate in people's lives. Angels have a heavenly body. but not demons, they are spirits and in the same matter-of-fact tone Christian explains how demons enter us, it is often our fault. I think there are basically three ways that spirits can enter our lives, our bodies, one is through repetition. Sinning does not invite a lying Spirit by lying once, but if you persist you eventually become entangled and the door opens, then there are traumatic circumstances, for example, if you have an accident, you are very vulnerable physically, but also spiritually this can happen in operating rooms under anesthesia there are certain circumstances like these in which Spirits are given the right to enter the Third Way it is inheritance the sins of your ancestors can affect you the Bible says it says that the open door can be transmitted from three to four generations or 10 Generations in the case of children, what do you mean by children?

Children conceived out of wedlock are a special case, but we normally talk about curses that are passed on to the next three or four generations. This rather disturbing worldview is also held by the director. of the Evangelical Alliance in French-speaking Switzerland and shared by many believers. Amen and it doesn't end there. Another supposed gateway is sexuality. Do you see homosexuality as a possible gateway? I haven't had a chance to pray about that particular problem. It's a life choice. As long as people live regular secular lives without spiritually engaging with God, it can work, but when they come to God they can see that there are things in their lives that need to be fixed.

It's an obstacle. An obstacle. Yes, okay, homosexuality according to your interpretation. from the Bible it is one of the sins that strengthens the devil if I am afflicted by demons it is my fault and if despite attempts at Liberation the demon cannot be expelled it is because I could not fully confess something then it is a system that is extremely guilty He guided Adrian through the burden of guilt for years. He was 14 years old when he moved to Switzerland with his parents who came from an evangelical family. He joined the church community and hoped to find spiritual fulfillment there, but Adrian soon realized that he was attracted to children the moment I told him. to the church about it they said that it was not God's plan for me and that it was possible to be healed from this the pastor of the church said that there was a spirit associated with homosexuality that had attached itself to me through a puppet from Burma that was in My parents' house was set on fire in the garden with gasoline because at that time it was believed that if an object was possessed by a spirit, the only way to drive it away was to burn it.

Over the years, Adrián experienced the melting pressure of his church. In Geneva he decided to participate in an intensive week-long conversion therapy program in New York. It was led by a pastor named Harley. During therapy I wrote down what happened every day and for all those years I kept a diary. Harley orders the demon to be bound to pain, heartbreak and silence to leave and join the Throne of God the demons begin to laugh and laugh mocking a little boy suffering in the desert I had physical symptoms during therapy it was like I could feel spirits coming out of me what was it like um I touch my neck and it's the Leviathan The long neck of a reptile I feel it sticky scales the Leviathan is a dragon a kind of long snake with legs that lives in deep water inside me the Leviathan doesn't want to come out I can feel my throat tightening and being strangled by the Leviathan that torments me I thought I had been liberated when I left I thought I could be what God wanted me to be heterosexual and I could fit into his plans what happened after this Liberation lasts until your wonderful nature Humanity takes over again and you begin to live according to your desires again, your dreams and the things that make up the wealth of your Humanity.

At that moment you feel enormous guilt that is going to destroy you even more. I think it was manipulated and that it was actually abuse. spiritual they tell you that it is the absolute truth and there is no other way this not only happens in evangelical circles clerics of other religious groups also participate in frequent and excessive practices of liberation and exorcism in the south of France we meet a woman called Lucy, from 30 years old, originally from Madagascar, she was adopted by a family with close ties to the society of St Pas I 10, a fundamentalist Catholic community founded in Switzerland in 1970, the group has been controversial in this society.

The father has a dominant role, he is there to command and make sure the entire family stays on the right path of religion. he is the patriarch. Lucy met her husband through the society. She married him at 18, she became pregnant at 20 and she had five children. How were things? He was very bad, there was a lot of violence, slaps, kicks, punches, I sought help from the priests in my parish, one priest in particular blamed me, he told me that I am too dominant with my husband that I should be submissive, he said all my outbursts of anger were caused by a demon, he did it.

He related it to my past, that I was adopted by a Muslim tribe and they had to remove all traces of me. I had about 20 exorcisms in six years, they take place in the prior, in the priest's office, one exorcism lasts until the end. 50 minutes later you are on your knees you have to confess your sins you have to wait for the priest to say his prayers and press your chest so that the demons come out being a Catholic I really accepted the priest's advice because I wanted to save my family and my marriage despite his efforts the beatings continued so Lucy finally asked her husband to leave the marital home the society then attempted one last exorcism to change his mind that night someone knocked on the door, I opened it and the priest came in and took me to the basement.

He wanted to cast out the demon in me trying to make me say he was wrong. I was afraid he would do something bad to me. I told myself he wouldn't attack me in my own home and he had no right to take my children they talk a lot about the devil in the St Pas Society the goal is not to go to hell exorcism is common among priests is it still are you in society today? Not anymore. I'm still a believer but I don't practice and I'm so glad I'm gone. Lucy is not an isolated case.

Other testimonies and an internal document corroborating the practice of exorcism within society suggest that it is carried out regularly. We contacted the society in Switzerland but received no response. The bishop of Chur urges us to go to extremes when it comes to exorcisms. This insistence on exorcisms is not good pastoral care. The main task that Christ entrusted to us was not to fight against evil but to proclaim the salvation and good, inciting fear of the devil people towards God n while this does not, because leading people would mean forcing people to do something that they are not free and that has no value to God, the greatest gift that God He has given us is our freedom, we can only love if we are free.

I have cut all ties with my former evangelical community about 10 years ago. I got to a point where I felt like a veil was being lifted. I realized that perhaps everything I believed had actually been instilled in me and was not from God, and this made it possible for me to reconcile my identity and my spirituality by putting the antenna of the LGBTI group Geneva in the Protestant church here for your personal experiences I felt prepared to offer others that space of self-discovery and Reconciliation that I had been missing we are here neither to judge nor to impose our views on other people I believe in things we cannot see I believe my faith is still alive and real but of course it is very different from my previous faith because there the ideal was blind faith where intelligence and freedom of thought and interpretation were stifled.

How did I achieve it perhaps by the grace of God?