Covert recordings prove Post Office covered up scandal for years

Channel 4 News has obtained undercover

recordings

that have never been broadcast before and show the Post Office knew about flaws in its IT system and lied about them for

years

. We played the

recordings

to the senior MP campaigning on behalf of the

post

masters he brought down. when he heard them, it's just terrible, this is how two accountants dis

covered

the

post

office

's darkest secret, it's May 22, 2013 and the post

office

hired forensic accountants Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson to investigate what all They think it's a big problem that dishonest postmasters are ripping off the company, but just at this point the accountants are starting to discover that that's not the problem at all, the problem is the Fujitsu post office computer system. based in Brell in Barkshire.

A call with Simon Baker, a Post Office IT specialist in Brell, the

covert

recording captures the moment they say there is a massive problem with Post Office accounts being changed overnight. It's more than one email, we have other emails that talk about the brol feature. access live data make changes to the system um not in real time but it says something from memory like um oh and this will be corrected overnight or we will make these adjustments overnight Simon Baker, the Post Office IT specialist is also on the case in brell, he suddenly says that Fujitsu has confessed to their

covert

night operation, so just to clarify where I am, I asked Fujitsu to actually confess and apparently there is a process where there is a technical avenue where technically you can make some kind of adjustment, um, but apparently it is very carefully monitored and controlled and audited, but is it the accountant Ian Henderson who we filmed with in January who fears that there is no effective oversight of the system and says so Is this the impression I have?

What I get from looking at the emails is that although you know that in theory there may be those types of controls that you know about, etc., you know that they are the type of controls that are found in a procedures manual. Actually, there is no electronic lock. I can put it that way, in other words, you know, if someone at bror had an idea and wanted to do something, they could just do it, yes, we sometimes refer to them as controls for those who wish to obey them, in other words, there are no a proper check, but then the conversation turns to what if overnight the accounts of spmr subpostmasters across the country were being tampered with and they weren't told they call this the nightmare scenario , whether they are displayed as you know a system setting, a journal you know, or a setting. whatever or if they are linked and this would be the nightmare scenario if they are linked to um um a SPMR id yeah that would be me and the other factor for me was the reported subpostm yeah I agree that's a question valid for ask yes and B, based on the email traffic I've seen, there is nothing to indicate that he or she was informed that he or she came up with the big lie from which this whole disaster arose: the ability to secretly alter the Sub Poost Masters accounts without them. knowing what the post office would deny for

years

, MPS was already on the case, but then Simon Baker, the post office's IT specialist, drops his own bombshell, he says he told OLN Lions, the secretary of the postal company, and Susan Kryon, the post office's chief attorney, about the brel. problem um I'm going to keep digging I think just for my own benefit and I also think I want to keep Olwin and Susan informed of what I came up with because for them to be prepared I think you know. what's going on because by the way they're not aware of any of this, okay I told them I just found out through the p mechanism and their faces got dirty, bad for the post office bosses, but Fujitsu knew everything about it, confirmed again in secrecy.

The recording of Gareth Jenkins being the key architect of the broken system at Brachnell and by the way, I mean one of the key emails, you know, it has Gareth Jenkins' name all over it so it was absolutely clear that this was of a widely understood message. capacity within the system, yes, well, Gareth did it. Gareth was the one who told me yesterday and he made no effort to hide it. The crisis is now heading towards chaos because that same day the accountants have a meeting with the senior management of the position. office, but worse, the CEO, Paul Lenel, the next day is meeting with James R.

Bunot, the senior congressman campaigning on behalf of the subpostmasters, what the hell are they going to tell these people? A few hours later, the accountants are making that call with the post office bosses here we hear repeatedly warning them on the line, the postal company secretary, Alan Lions, and the post office's chief lawyer. , Susan Kryon. I would say they should decide if they want to know about this before the ABN meeting and if she knows about this. Before Abbn's meeting you have to make the decision whether she tells him. This is very close to one of the central themes of the complaint.

Yeah, you know, and I think we've confirmed that you. I know the ability for that to be alleged somehow seems to exist, well, we're going to be in a very awkward position if we try to defend why we're concerned. You know the whole thing about some sort of Bun principal. worry, yes, how he would react. um you know we can't hide these things from you if you ask us a direct question and frankly any of us have to give a direct answer and I think in relation to someone you need to inform Paula, they warn the post office bosses once more about the quote, damn brel topic, yo, we would discuss this damn brel topic, are we right in thinking that Paula is not aware of it, yes, she is not aware or not?

She is not aware of it, I think it is dangerous not to inform Paula, yes, me too, I would inform her about it, but what do we say? However, I mean, how is it going to be, for example, if, if, as far as I know, um, AB doesn't ask him? A question about it tomorrow will take her by surprise. What we're going to receive, Susan, you know, don't get too specific, is confirmation that the type of facility that was described or that the type of capability that was described exists. I don't know if they told the post office manager, Paula Venel, or what, we do know that the post office would fire the accountants.

Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson say they got too close to the truth. We played these recordings to James Arbn, not the deputy. who led the charge across the ice right for the subpostmasters who fought so long for so many their response visible emotion and anger towards the post office allowed that lie to continue allowed the subpostmasters to languish in prison allowed more subpostmasters of emails went to The Wall and Paul de Venel lied to Parliament in February 2015. Does it alter the dial? James watching these tapes for me. After everything you've been through, I mean, you've become a part of this.

Yes, I have been doing this. For 14 years, 15 years and to think that a British institution could behave like this, on our property, is just terrible. Fujitsu, the Post Office and Gareth Jenkins declined to comment citing the public inquiry now examining this

scandal

. Simon Baker Susan Kryon and Alwin Lions did not respond when we brought the accusation of lying to Parliament to Paul Lenel in a previous report, she refused to comment, which still leaves lives damaged by the bloody Brel issue. It is about Justice letting justice be done. Let's know the whole truth. So just let people be judged for what they did and how they did it and how they tried to cover it up for all the victims.

The truth is slowly oozing out of this open wound. However, justice is nowhere close to being visited on those behind it. the cover-up