ADHD or Quiet Borderline Personality Disorder? [Overlap & Differences]

Hi, I'm Kyle from the medical circle I joined today Dr. Judy Ho. We are talking about two very popular topics, especially on YouTube, ADHD and a silent

borderline

personality

disorder

. This term, silent

borderline

personality

disorder

. Dr. Judy is really making the rounds. What's that? bpd, although not in the dsm, is an emerging construct that both clinicians and laypeople have been discussing and I think the reason it emerged is because if anyone knows someone with borderline personality disorder they will know that they actually have a really broad spectrum of expression which means if you know one person with borderline personality disorder, you don't know them all, they really look very different in terms of the way they present, some people have traits of borderline personality disorder. the personality that they feel like they're really in your face and even In the first few meetings with them, you think, wow, this is what's going on, and then with other people, you might know them for months without realizing that maybe they have some of these traits and I would say the silent bpd is more of the latter, it's again. a subtype not in the dsm but an emergent construct that people talk about and in the case of silent borderline personality disorder the most important aspect of this is that the person directs their mood changes and behaviors inward rather than lashing out at others, and that complicates it.

What needs to be diagnosed and treated is that they have a lot of intense emotions bubbling up inside them, but they sort of direct that anger at themselves and engage in more self-destructive behaviors, both in thoughts and actions, that don't become evident until someone really you know this person intimately over a period of time. If you are interested in learning more about treatment options and how to seek the right treatment, tonight we will have a live panel with many of our medical circle psychologists and psychiatrists. You can learn more at medcircle.com or use the information below this video, Dr.

Judy, Silent BPD seems to

overlap

a lot with some of the symptoms of ADHD, what are those

overlap

ping symptoms and how can we as simple laymen , really understand the

differences

between BPD and ADHD? overlap in the sense that often people with ADHD, bpd, or both struggle with difficulties and self-regulation and generally have difficulty with a stable sense of self, as well as relating consistently positively to other people, the People with calm BPD, especially, could have these mood swings. We sometimes see that with people with ADHD, but they often keep it to themselves, repress those angry feelings, even deny that they're angry, maybe withdraw when they're upset, and as mentioned, it's related to inconsistent self-concept. that have.

They also have lower self-esteem and those are also some of the traits we see in people with ADHD. They also have low self-esteem. Sometimes they withdraw when they feel like they are not doing well, especially if they are more of the inattentive type of ADHD rather than the hyperactive and impulsive type and there is also this idea of ​​fear of rejection and abandonment that is very prominent in people with BPD, but in people with ADHD who have had difficulties in the social environment with which they begin to live. develop these traits as well, so those are some of the things that may overlap with those conditions, why do you think that?

Well, let me ask you this. Do you happen to know the percentage of people who have a

quiet

pb or acquire a bbd that have a limit? Personality disorder or ADHD Well, the research is just emerging, but early research suggests that there could be a 25 to 40 percent overlap between the two, so that 25 to 40 percent of individuals with What we call the silent borderline personality disorder construct can also have dimensions of ADHD and obviously that makes it difficult to know which symptom really goes with which condition, although I would say that the treatment can be very similar because when we think about therapy dialectical behavioral and how it helps with emotion regulation, We know that that can apply to both symptoms or both conditions and this is an emerging type of intervention approach that we have been calling trans diagnostic treatments, which means we know that there are these evidence-based techniques and these evidence-based techniques can treat certain types. of symptoms or clusters of symptoms and it doesn't really matter what the diagnosis is, we will treat it at the level of symptom and presentation, and trans diagnostic treatment approaches have received a lot of praise lately and more and more research has been done. on how they work, you have a wonderful series on Med Circle on ADHD in adults.

I have some questions about it, but right now I'd like to give the viewer an inside look at that series. Take a look at this now. What are some common misconceptions when it comes to adults who believe they have ADHD or have been diagnosed. I feel like everyone thinks they have ADHD and I think everyone is on the spectrum at some point, but if you only have inattention occasionally, you don't. really impairs your functioning and you're not as distressed about it, then you really won't qualify for that diagnosis of ADHD in adulthood, ADHD is relatively at 50% the prevalence rate as ADHD in childhood, so National studies have shown that ADHD in childhood is about five percent of the population in adulthood is two and a half, so about 50 of people recover from ADHD by the time they reach age 18 and then 50 continue suffering symptoms in adulthood and I think it is a big mistake that it looks the same for some reason because it is not in adulthood, also the hyperactive and impulsive characteristics look very different as a child, the child runs around the room class, he gets up from his seat, it's really very rural, he's not sure, you know, which causes something negative. attention and it's usually when teachers identify them and talk to parents in adulthood, they may still have that concern, but as adults we are a little more controlled in terms of our behavior, so we're not going to be running around when I know we're not supposed to do this, but you may feel very restless and sometimes you see people tapping their desk or table very nervously and that may be a manifestation of an adult form of combined ADHD. .

You can watch that entire series. and more at watch.medcircle.com dr judy with the ability for adults to get ADHD as adults, can an adult have silent borderline personality disorder? You know they showed no symptoms in their teens and early 20s, but now at the age of 48. They are beginning to notice these symptoms. Well, I think that can happen, although I would say that it is rarer that throughout their life they really have not had any symptoms. It is more correct as you presented it that they began to notice them later in life and I think what happens is that sometimes those symptoms are there, they're in the context of personality development, but maybe because their life hasn't been overtly stressful in a specific way that highlights those symptoms that they haven't had.

I noticed it, sometimes people notice it later because they become more self-aware and realize that's why I had some difficulties with relationships earlier in life. I just didn't know the name of it a lot of times, for example, people didn't. They don't realize that in their early years, in their 20s and even 30s, some of the dynamics of their relationships are how maybe they are attracted to people who are very dismissive and how they fear abandonment, rejection at the clues smaller, even ambiguous, that the person may be losing interest. I don't identify it as a dimension of borderline personality disorder, but as they get older they realize that this is a pattern that I have had and that, in fact, it is seriously affecting my life right now and I may have self-sabotaged myself. at various times. my relationships being too clingy or too black and white in my thinking about how people relate to me, especially in intimate relationships, and they don't recognize it until they are older, but in the early years they were already exhibiting some of those behaviors . that makes a lot of sense and that was a good reminder, thank you for that, why do you think that apparently 25 to 40 percent of the population or people who have pretty borderline personality disorder also have ADHD? why is there so much overlap?

Think again about the etiology of both conditions, obviously there are some

differences

, but some of the similarities in terms of causes or maintaining factors of both conditions is that generally, people with ADHD and people with borderline disorder have some experiences adverse childhood memories, some of them come from his real family. origin, so maybe they had parents who looked down on them or maybe even parents who had borderline traits, but when someone has ADHD, that also surfaces early in childhood and really affects someone's self-esteem if it's not identified and treated. early because you can see how different you are from the other classmates who seem to understand things better than you, the teachers point out that you are not paying attention and that they constantly reprimand you in class and also, as we mentioned, people with ADHD often have difficulties . with the development of positive relationships, so there is that fear of abandonment that starts to emerge at a young age and so when you look at the possible overlapping causes between the two conditions, you can think about why maybe a As they approach adulthood they might exhibit similar constructs in terms of how they act and interact with the world, but also one condition may begin to overlap with another because people often think about the development of certain personality conditions and particularly in the limit with cases of trauma, well, when you are bullied at school when you have been rejected over and over again by your peers, that is a form of trauma for many people and that could be one of the causes that promoted the symptoms of trauma.

Limits arise as you get older. Very interesting tonight. I am very excited because to have a panel of psychologists and psychiatrists from medical circles who will answer questions and discuss live answering your questions, not my questions, answering your questions if you want to be a part of that, check out the information below this video or go to medcircle .com you can also see the upcoming live virtual classes that you can attend, ask your questions, this is not a treatment, it is education, but if you want to learn more about it directly, you can go to medcircle.com live.

I will be very excited to attend. See you all tonight, why would one person with silent BPD have ADHD while another with silent BPD would not show any ADHD related symptoms? Well, I think, as we know, all psychological conditions are multifactorial and develop from many different cases and influencing factors. the person's trajectory and one thing we mention a lot in emerging research is the idea of ​​a family bond, so if you have family members who also have borderline personality traits they are on the spectrum or if you have family members who also have ADHD they are on the spectrum. the spectrum that could certainly be a major contribution to why you yourself emerge with those traits.

There is also, as we briefly mentioned earlier, the impact of the environment and it is particularly the social environment and I believe that when an individual has been subjected to repeated instances of isolation, rejection, social, negative influences, they are more likely to develop both BPD and ADHD. , and I think when we think about how these symptoms arise in individuals, it's often unclear which arises first, although I would say that when someone has both ADHD and BPD, usually the ADHD condition arises first because we know which is a developmental problem in which people begin to have symptoms in their childhood.

BPD is more of an emergent thing where you don't start to see those traits until maybe adolescence and then. It certainly doesn't solidify until the person is a bona fide adult and for those reasons, if we were to talk about which usually arises first, ADHD may arise first, but depending on family and social environmental factors, it may also develop further. later the condition of BPD. uh, combined with the emerging ADHD above, certainly people living with borderline personality disorder benefit from having strong family support. The medical circle has a series of family strategies and support strategies to help people with BPD.

I'd like to take an inside look at that. series right now, take a look at this, let's get started with creating this safety plan. Can you do it without a professional? I think so. I think it's a good day. You know, when everyone gets along and says. You know, I always wantmake sure That house or whatever this place is seems safe to you. What can I do when that happens? You know when. When you feel out of control. What would help you feel safe in that moment? You have to remember that when it comes to psychological skills.

I have to say that my borderline personality clients are some of the most psychologically capable I have, they are very in touch with this is what works and I wish people knew this about me, but in the moment of crisis they can't articulate it. Okay, the more we can understand that up front, the better it is in a time of crisis because a lot of times they've done a lot of psychological work, so there's that awareness, but you know, listen, nobody does well when you're trying to build a plane in the air, you know you really want to build this before it takes off, yeah, and that's really the struggle, is that people often try to quickly address a crisis in a very dramatic way by asking someone.

When things are going well they like what works for you When things feel out of control for you, is there anything I can do? What would help you? Would you like to work with someone in collaboration? We don't want to get into that dynamic caregiver job. I'm going to rescue you. I'm going to give you a plan on what will help you feel safe. You can watch that series and more at watch.medcircle.com. Dr. Judy, when it comes to the stigma around borderline personality disorder, are you seeing something similar or maybe less so? stigma around silent borderline personality disorder.

I think when someone has a borderline personality disorder label, the stigma is largely the same. People think these unstable, intractable people are difficult to get along with, and none of that is true. I have personally dealt with and interacted with them. Some of the sweetest people who have borderline personality disorder and I think a lot of times when someone has

quiet

borderline personality disorder, they can present themselves that way, they can present themselves as very sweet, very accommodating, but as we mentioned, anger turns inward and they are much kinder. more passive-aggressive in your expression of displeasure towards someone and in some ways it makes it a little bit more difficult to bring it up and identify the condition and treat the condition, but I want to mention that each type of borderline personality disorder has a path. to follow in terms of improving your functioning, improving your relationships and certainly improving and having those symptoms reduced much more after a period of treatment.

A lot of times people will say well, when you have borderline personality disorder, does that mean you have that condition? Forever personality conditions are more longitudinal, we think of them as more long-term, but there are people who are treated in a way that the symptoms of borderline personality disorder are basically not noticeable, so even if they said "well," I think they are still nice. deep down and I just have to see it and I have to use my interventions if it's not impacting their lives then effectively they have improved a lot and it doesn't really matter what the label is and that's what I really encourage people to think about the people who They have symptoms of borderline personality disorders, they have such a bad reputation and yet if they work hard like they do on anything else, like symptoms of depression or anxiety, they can get relief and their relationships and functioning improves and I really hope that the stigma improves and people stop thinking that it is a condition that can never be treated because that is completely false.

It is treated successfully for many people using dialectical behavior therapy. We have some videos on that. We'll link to them here somewhere, be sure to add them to your watchlist for a full education. Dr. Judy, thank you for being here, see you tonight. I'm Kyle Kittleson, remember whatever you're going through, you've got this.