the perils of fame (w/Ethan + Grayson Dolan) - #36

Thank you both very much for coming, yes, of course, thank you for inviting us. Yes, thanks. I'm excited to talk to you two and also excited about how open and willing to talk about vulnerable things you seem to be grateful for. you, yeah, I feel like there's a personally, there's no other way for me, it's just me being myself, I'm like open, yeah, you guys say too much, I feel like sometimes, but I feel like that's the way to be, do you? do you feel that? How do you feel like you say too much, so we have this super awkward and cumbersome table?

I just kicked my laptop, it's literally sitting on two shoe boxes. You say too much. I don't know, maybe, maybe more in my personal life. I feel like hey, um, yeah. but can you even say too much? Know? Yeah, I feel like I always feel like there's an interesting line between vulnerability and openness and oversharing, and I feel like it's a hard line to navigate and I don't think it's the Internet. It's been particularly helpful because I feel like there's a lot, it's so easy to overshare and I think figuring out the boundaries between what I've really processed and thought about is where I'm willing and comfortable. sharing that is also vulnerable to something you should probably spend three years working on in therapy and then go back to the internet, yeah that's a great point.

I feel like I shared it too soon, yes, when problems arise. In my life I would talk about them before I could analyze them and find out what they really mean to me. It's a strange time we live in, where you have this community that you converse with online. Yes, you can just talk. but then the things you post also reach other people you shouldn't share them with, so it's all for Uber. Sharing becomes something you like to jump into at the end of a conversation with someone you're just starting one with if that makes any sense, but I think that's what a podcast is.

Would you do it even with just the title of your podcast or something that appeals to a group of people that you hopefully want to listen to? what you're saying, yeah, definitely listen to it too. I mean, if you're exciting for an hour or so, which most podcasts are, I mean a lot of people will want to sit for more than an hour here, which you've got. I mean, unless really their beliefs are aligned with what you're talking about, which is, yeah, yeah, I feel like generally the podcast audience is more interested in a longer, vulnerable conversation, they want something that's a a little more sincere, a little more a little more meaty, I think that's why I listen to podcasts.

I feel like I've learned a lot to do something to connect us in the last two years of my life, but you guys aren't doing yours anymore, is that right? Yes, yes, why what? happened, how much did you do it? It kind of goes back to what you said earlier about really making sure we know ourselves before we put everything out there. Hello, I realized that I am changing so quickly in my life as soon as I turned. 21 for some reason I'm fine I need to be a full blown adult now and I feel like I can't do it overnight are we both 21 now we're both 21?

Yeah, okay, it's about the 21st in December, so it's been a while, but yeah, I'm really trying to mature and think about the things that I'm really passionate about or want to change and I just can't learn them all fast enough. . talking about them weekly, I mean, that's mature in itself, it's like people can learn a lesson, take note of that, thank you, yeah, I feel like I talked about so many things from the beginning. On the podcast we were doing it for maybe a year, yeah, we did audio only for a while and it was like childhood stories and silly stories and stuff like that, but yeah, yeah, like Liz even said we turned 21 and I didn't. .

I don't know if it was like the brand of now you're 21 and I felt like I needed to stand up for this like an adult yeah yeah you know what I mean I want it to be an adult and I wanted to change the things that I saw that were problems and that I was passionate about them, but it takes a long time to learn about all that stuff, yeah, I was running into the problem where we were both where we like to record an episode like a month and a half yeah and then we were like, I don't even know if We already feel the same.

Our values ​​and opinions have changed since then. I don't really know if I want to post this, so I felt like, wow! Keep chasing your tail with that unless we really took the time to find ourselves and discover what we really believed in. Was there anything you guys felt? Oh God I wish I didn't like any specific example of things you guys are like oh no I shouldn't have done that yeah I think 50 of my online existence I like it I go to sleep at night I think I don't I think twice, not even the percentage of my existence in real life is what passes through me.

I think this is normal, like in human behavior, that you like to question the things that you have done and that you feel a little embarrassed by the things that your past self has done and now we are living in a time where everything is like like permanent permanent and it's on the internet and it's out there and it's not just you thinking about other people having to see it until there's another added pressure there and yeah, I think what we're doing now is just taking the time to really find ourselves ourselves because we jumped on social media at 14.

And wow, from the day I turned, maybe even before that, I was still doing things like hoping to get famous on Vine or whatever, but I was like exposing myself. there from such a young age that I never liked to sit with myself and think about the things I really wanted for myself, so where are you guys with the internet and everything that entails now? They don't publish because me? I checked out your YouTube channel and thought, oh, let me see what the recent posts are like. Nothing has been published for six months, right, yes, it feels like, yes.

I thought it had been more than six months, but probably not. um, I feel like since I put my phone. Honestly, I don't even use social media anymore, like I don't do it anymore, it's a nice break from using apps and wow and Twitter, yeah, I watched The Social Dilemma and it was kind of like whoa um, yeah, sure, like dating of social networks. in the media or creating on social media and I guess that was the validity of my I guess opinion about what I thought social media was when I heard some interesting facts about how when you know you wake up and you have it all.

These thoughts you're not supposed to have because you just pick up your phone and look at other people's lives and opinions and they make you feel emotions you wouldn't feel at 8 a.m. m., so I wanted to just focus on starting my days and living my days just with the emotions and feelings that I would have in my personal life and not really, I don't know, join other people's lives just for a little bit and so far it's It's been, honestly, it's been a breath of fresh air. I can imagine, but I'm sure you've had this kind of rough curve where you guys have been on the Internet for so long.

They're famous for things you did on the Internet, do you feel like, oh God, that's going to escape you? Are you worried about any level of

fame

or is some of that eluding you? or are you like no man? For the most part I just think about myself, I guess

fame

and having an influence is something I personally don't consider valuable, like I don't care if people think I'm famous and recognize me for being famous. famous, yeah, I just appreciate the voice that it's given me and the ability to invoke changes and stuff like that, so wow, I'm trying to figure out that it's like the battle that I'm going through in my head is like I don't want to letting it slip because I still want to be able to make a change but I just want to make sure it's the right thing for me because it's also become toxic to my lifestyle as I am.

I'm a very private person, yes, a lot of things happened that I haven't been able to talk about for one reason or another and they just got into my head and so on. It's like I'm dealing with trauma when I'm in that area and I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate around it so I can keep using my voice for a while, yeah, um, and stop me, of course, if anything gets too much. personal or if you don't want to talk about anything, but I actually first found out about you when I saw a news headline about your father and I saw people saying that they were trying to find the location of the funeral so they could try to take pictures and it's so deeply disturbing to me.

I had a similar experience when my mother passed away and I was terrified that the paparazzi would be there at the funeral. I felt so disheartened in humanity. I felt like there was no space to process this event and almost like people wanted to see me fall apart at the event where you naturally fall apart because of it. There was no way I wasn't going to break down, yeah, at first I want to say I'm so sorry about your mom. I heard that you had a very long battle with cancer and I know how terrible it is for an individual in your family um, yeah and yeah, just with the whole funeral situation it was really scary, honestly, at that moment it was like I was, already you know, of course, losing a best friend and then having a plan for, you know, what was going to have to happen next in the Honestly, while my dad was still alive because you know we heard news about the hospice and then you know the reality makes you like, okay, I have to be prepared for his funeral, I can't have people coming and taking pictures and all that, so we ended up using security beforehand, which was really morbid in itself and yeah, that was unfortunate, but I mean, that's what the internet is when you expose yourself. "You're exposing yourself to everyone, everyone has access to the internet, yeah, so I think there was um, look, we were defended by 99.9 of our followers, that's great, don't do this, it's not all of our followers, yeah, I".

I'm not sure if the people trying to come to the patients' funeral could have just been haters or trolls and are trying to say something to make us feel, you know safe, but yeah, I think it's okay, I think you said Well, I don't. I know, it's hard for me to talk about this because I just don't want to say anything wrong. I don't want to say the wrong thing to upset anyone, but no, I mean, I get it. That's what I imagine is something that you guys implement in almost everything you talk about because you have such a wide reach and such a large fan base.

Are they worried about how they articulate certain things? can you be as free as you would like to be or do you feel somewhat limited by all the inputs, yes that is, I don't know if it's restricted, it's just that I guess I'm a paranoid person and I'm afraid that people I'm going to misinterpret what I say. I am saying. I just don't want to bother anyone. And I realize how powerful words are, so I'm very careful, and of course, I definitely get anxiety when I talk for long periods of time. on a public platform like I just hope I didn't say something that's going to upset anyone, yeah, I feel that too.

I'm terrified that something especially like um, people really want to do it right now for whatever reason, like getting a headline about my experience. with child acting and I'll say something that I think is pretty well spoken and articulated and then they'll like take a little nugget like two little words and they'll say she quits, she hates everyone, I'll say, okay, that's it. This is ridiculous, what are we doing guys? I don't know why they have to like to do something dramatic. I guess it's just for views or whatever, but it's annoying. Has it affected how you feel about podcasting? um, it's good.

I question, I mean, it's definitely taken more time in the editing because now I'm very, I try to listen with the ears of the shark media, what they may try to grab and it definitely affects the way I edit the episodes and I feel like they've been shorter because I have to trim, it's probably good. I'm probably cutting out a lot of my long tangents, but I feel like I have to trim more to make sure that's not like anything can be taken out of context, yeah, it's a little irritating, frustrated because that's like a liability now that you have to look at yourself. yourself through someone else's eyes and someone you like honestly doesn't have your best interests in mind, yeah.

Honestly, I think it's difficult as it comes from the media and there are some people you know, some journalists and things who have been incredibly kind and generous to me and supportive and that's lovely, but most of the time I find my experience with the media. It's just that they just want you to know the opinions and then the kind of negative bias towards something, whereas the audience is incredibly understanding and incredibly nuanced in how they perceive things and I don't feel like I could have given the audience a misstep. I feel like they are so understanding and compassionate and it's unfortunate that now it's not even like navigating the audience. about navigating the media, do you guys feel that way with the media or with the audience or both?

I said, um, there's a I wouldn't even call them an audience, but first it's like it's not so much the media as we end up in theHeadlines. very often they were more like troll accounts and things like that I guess they act as media. I guess you can compare them to how the media is the bull sharks of New Age media. I guess so, it is, and we even discovered that with out in public with paparazzi like we, we don't really have many experiences with paparazzi, but we do have people who don't like us that much who will like to come and try to take a photo of us doing something .

Who are these people? It's them, it's weird, it's like, um, it's like a completely different era, I guess it's because we came up, I guess, at the beginning of digital media, yeah, paparazzi just didn't catch on, I guess and uh. but but like these younger people who were consuming social media and things like that kind of took the place of paparazzi for digital creators, certain strange concept, yeah, it's definitely a completely different world. I am and am very intrigued. I think I remember seeing something like The Hollywood Reporter about how any kid is asked if she'd rather be Jennifer Lawrence or meet someone on social media.

They're not even like Jennifer Lawrence I don't know who it is, give me the YouTube camera and call it a day, you know, that's where things go, yeah, yeah, it's really crazy, and like you said, there's like these. They're kids who are trying to make these decisions at a young age and you know they don't have the knowledge to really understand what they really want to do with their life and sometimes when you throw yourself into it, it becomes an incredibly long journey. which you just can't get away from because it's really addictive to get views and get people interested in what you're doing, especially I remember when I was very young I was getting comments when I started getting comments from people I didn't know personally.

I was like, Oh my gosh, like I'm going to make friends with people and you feel like, I don't know, it's like a feeling of popularity, I guess, and you get addicted to people, huh, but yeah. That's why I feel like it's quite dangerous for kids to be on social media, yeah, it's also a career that everyone knows now can be a successful career because yeah, I'm done, but when we started, no one had really had a career in social media. social networks. The media maybe liked a small number of YouTubers, but they had high production value and all of that came out as user generated content, it's like anyone could do it with their phone, but we wanted to make a career out of it and the The important thing about this is that it's like you can't have a five-year plan with a social media career because of the ways it changes and the different waves that come.

Yes. Trends and things like that, if I remember correctly. right, there was like a year on social media, I think it was 2017 where drama was like the number one content consumed as anything that had anything to do with someone's likes or just a negative title, yeah, it did very well and then it disappeared. because I think everyone got tired of that and then the next year was like a really positive year on social media, the pendulum swing, yeah, I guess so, but there's no way to really plan for that when you're looking for another job, I guess .

I can kind of have a rough estimate of what it's going to be like over the next five years and where you want to take it, how you guys have been doing navigating the ups and downs of the Internet, can you go? in the different phases and what your experience was like with them because it's been so long. I think at first we had a very clear idea of ​​what we wanted to do on social media when we were young, I guess around 16 and then for the next three years we just did our own thing um and then yeah so I feel like the ups and downs became a lot more drastic after 2019 2020. um I mean obviously when everyone was stuck inside not knowing what to do and actually just psychoanalyzing everyone and everything and then there were so many fluctuations like yeah and what was up fashion on social media and we, at that time, really tried to jump on the bandwagon and follow it. just because, like me, I wasn't sure if we were making something that was interesting enough for people to watch, so I thought, okay, let's do the interesting thing, um, so yeah, we definitely felt victimized by that. um, yeah, I feel that way. it was like the worst representation of ourselves, this is 2019.

Yeah, 2020, I think so, and how can you explain what that kind of content looked like? Yes, it's really kind of embarrassing, but we decided to like that type of blog. everything in our lives and here, I guess, 20 years and really trying to figure out who you are, it just wasn't the best time to do that and yeah, it was, it was really humiliating, so we deleted everything, oh God. God, yes, it was like I felt like social media became more and more exploitative as time went on. Yeah, everyone likes that if you didn't show yourself like the inside of your bathroom, then people don't care about you, you know what I mean, you have to do it. show me there was a point where you got to where you had to show everything, I think some people started going further and talking like I didn't know their failed relationships or friendships or just things that were really juicy and It's dramatic that people said, "Oh, I want you to know, watch this.

As more and more people did it, the content that wasn't that got a little more boring and less edgy, so I guess we just tried to keep up and we're" . Not really that kind of people, we don't like much drama and we don't like to let people get too close to our lives. I have a hard time building trust, finding trustworthy people to be friends with and all that. So I guess I'm a pretty cautious person at first and then I completely deviated from what I was and just did what social media wanted me to do and it was also like a really strange time in our lives.

It was a pretty bad time, we had like, I guess, looking back now, pretty bad eating disorders and it really messed with our heads and, uh, both of us, yeah, it was really, it was really unsafe and I hit an all-time low. and uh that's when I decided to show the best thing I had ever shown in my life wow, yeah, yeah, so it's weird, I don't know, I feel like uh, that's one of the things I regret doing the other things. that I've done on social media, I don't really regret it that much, um, the ups and downs were like you just discovered them and they weren't really that deep, but I feel like as we got older, it got a little bit deeper because I felt a greater responsibility for the things I was posting and now a big responsibility for the things I posted and some of them were not that good and you can't say it's good or good. representation of who I am, but what can you do?

I mean, you make mistakes and you live and you learn and that's life, it's weird that it's public. I totally agree and that's something I definitely still struggle with. from the ghosts of my past and being haunted or humiliated by certain things and I feel like I wish I could clean this up, um, but to your point, that's not how it works and if you have any advice for me it would be a big help. I appreciate because it's not easy, so do you have it? Because? When did you get in front of the camera? I was six years old when I started acting.

It was a little bean. Yes I like it. I have no memory of a time in my life when I wasn't really acting and some of that likes to bother you, yes I'm serious because it was something I did to please my mom and it wasn't me, it wasn't an autonomous thing. for me um, I feel like I didn't have uh, I didn't really fully live my childhood like I didn't have it. I think it's very important for kids and teens, honestly, even for young adults as well. having that space to grow and develop and especially until I think your brain life is fully developed at age 25, something like that and it's like having that time where you can just explore yourself and make mistakes without taking in information from the world, think it is so. important and I felt like I had an unlived childhood that was then left with me when I stopped acting and I thought, well, I guess inside I'm like a six-year-old because I didn't have all those years, so let's see how this goes, it didn't go well and it wasn't a fun phase of my life, but I think it was really important to be able to have some semblance of a legitimate identity or self. it would have just been a shadow of a person like an absolute shadow of a person it was pretty creepy it was the idea of ​​stopping acting and finding yourself off camera and doing your thing what was that intimidating at first like it felt like we were going to give up Also, yeah, I felt like, oh God, all of this was going to slip away from me and these are things that people tell me that I should want fame and money and all of that is something that everyone says like, oh, you How lucky and I am absolutely crazy to walk away from this.

This will be the biggest regret of my life. Plus, everyone around me tells me I'd be crazy to walk away from this, so there's no one to really say, "Hey, you." I know, do what's best for your mental health, there wasn't really that advocate other than my therapist, bless her, thank you Aaron, so it was like that, this really difficult decision to make and it took me months of back and forth and I felt like I was like trying to tiptoe and try it and I was like, “Well, maybe I'd just like to do this or maybe I'll do this when really inside what I wanted was like no, you.” I need to stop, you have to stop, you're not going to be okay if you continue, no matter how many other people are weighing in on this, finally once I did it, that's when I really started to see tangible changes and improvements in my mental health and now I believe which was absolutely the right decision, um, but it wasn't easy to come to that, yeah, definitely, definitely sorry, it was definitely one of the scariest conversations I've ever had.

I've had with Grayson when we said okay this is going to get bad if we don't stop and it didn't and that's when we thought about doing the podcast and everything we can keep here and you know, do a little bit here comes up every now and then. when there and I was like: I really don't think we're going to find out who we are unless we live for ourselves only um and I knew it would take time too. We can't just do it for a week and then do it again. You don't know who you are in just a week.

So I feel like I'm really starting to improve my mental health now. that's cool and finding out what I really like to do myself yeah I think we can definitely relate to you we left school right after I turned 15 so I have like a month of high school but I would say I think. The last time I was in school was in 8th grade, so from there we moved to Los Angeles and got our own apartment, it was just us too and then every day we woke up, worked, fell asleep, woke up, worked, went to sleep.

We slept when you were there. 15 Yes, because we had something weekly on YouTube to keep us going. I mean, I never wanted to miss a Tuesday, that's the day we used to post and then, you know, all the other social media platforms we wanted to keep up with. date, except it was hard work. I'm not going to underestimate it, it was hard work. It's weird how ideal YouTube seems to be a YouTuber, but once you do it, it's really hard. work and it can be very mentally exhausting, even more so now than back then, it was much easier when we did it.

I feel bad for the young people who are getting into this nowadays just because social media has become a much more exploitative place and you really have to lose all your privacy and exchange reviews that are not tangible and are really valuable. And I feel like there's less and less about it because there are more and more people. on these platforms and they see you less in your opinion, you know maybe it's less important now than people back then because of the brands and the people who want to pay you money because they can go to someone else because there are so many people. doing it and I just don't know, I feel like there are a lot of people who even like these platforms, it's like they are stripping young people of their sanity in exchange for screen time and a monetary game, yeah, yeah, we .

I just don't know, but yeah, I feel like I went into like a Time Warp, I think between the ages of 14 and 20, and then I came out and said, well, I said I'm Grayson again. I feel like I'm feeling like myself and I'm going to start exploring the things that really matter to me, like I'm doing that thing where I'm buying expensive clothes and driving a cool car and stuff like that. I thought so, I think the whole time he was just trying to convince me that that's what he really wanted for myself, um, but really it was just so that you would be cool, I could maintain this famous reputation and look cool. other people, but I didn't really care and I didn't feel like myself sitting in that car, you know, yeah and uh, since I took a step back and took back my privacy and started exploring the things that I actually care about personally. for um, I've made a lot of changes in that area of ​​my life and I feel a lot better, that's phenomenal, it was with the cars and the clothes, um, it was thatkind of with your social group was also incorporating those things into their life, so there was some element of like oh, I have to keep up with my social group or it wasn't so much about that and just kind of like oh, I guess I should do this because I'm famous and you know whatever, I think our industry was doing that very similar to how other people on social media were doing a lot of that.

I think there was also some sort of reward or praise for it that might be online. You would feel good as a young person. You think you're cool. I mean, everyone wants to be. So it was just that and plus you know if everyone else was doing it, you don't want to be the only person. not to do it because then you don't fit in as much and um, yeah, that was a big part of it too, it was like a cliché at the time, to be like a cool car, wrap it up and become cool. tires and uh I don't know just little things like that, I realized that I think they're a little bit silly and now that I've found out who I really am, yeah, you guys that mentioned before, pretty much all of them. feeling like they have some right to like your identity, in some ways you put it better than that, but it was kind of like, you know what I'm talking about, yeah, when he said he felt like people had equity in our lives.

Yes, yes, I felt so. I mean, all of our viewers and followers are definitely responsible for a lot of the success we've had on social media in our lives. We are very grateful for them. You know all that and also just because of the support that they've given us and it's like when I guess you formed a relationship with someone at such a young age and then you grew up with that person and you don't really even necessarily know each other, but you met online. I feel that because they were responsible for everything we were our success.

I felt like they probably thought they were also responsible for other decisions we make in our lives. who we were going to be friends with and who we wanted to have relationships with and sure, um and I don't blame them, we're all kids and we're all trying to figure out what life is like and you know there's no such thing as a rule book for social media, it's so new and, um, yeah, I guess it was just, I don't know, I don't know if there's anything else to say about it other than that, but I think a lot of it can just be attributed to being young and learning and just having relationships and I like the relationship a creator has with their viewers and vice versa, yeah it's still like a young relationship where people are learning how to navigate whatever type of personal relationship they have. you have in life and uh there are ways that can be emotionally damaging and you just learn as you go, but uh, yeah, and I wouldn't say it was like it was definitely not the majority of the followers that were, at all, not at all. way, but there were things that I saw that in other words said like why don't you show me this because I took you to where you are, you know what I mean, yeah, well, because I can't because I mean, there are also other reasons why We've had extreme security and privacy breaches before that have scarred me for the rest of my life, yeah, without that, but you know, it was handled by the law and, um, it's scary, really, really. scary and that also traumatized me by not wanting to share much of my life, but then the other people who supported me I couldn't tell him that and I can't say much more than I'm right.

Now, sure, but I couldn't really find a balance there because I literally wasn't legally allowed to do it either, so I hear you, you know, I think this is such a complicated and nuanced area that it's really hard for people to understand. people. especially young people, who I understand where they are coming from and think like this, but I am a fan, therefore I should have blank access to this person's every move and that means I am showing how much I love them and can be kind. I guess I understand it, but I do it. I'm biased and I see it more from my point of view because that's who I am in what I've lived and I guess I feel like my experience was different than yours in that sense. which wasn't uh that I really started to like resent the fame and resent um and resent the people that came to me because I was on a children's show and I felt very embarrassed about it and you know I had very intense eating disorders and my character was known for eating food, so people literally came screaming, I also feel like the reactions were some people who were incredibly kind and courteous and a lot of people who were charming, but there were also a lot of people who, you know? grabs my arm very intensely, you know, aggressive mom types that just grab the arm, take a picture with their child and um and I felt like I don't know, I felt like every time I leave the house everyone feels like they deserve it. a piece of me and I just want to have a coffee like I just want to spend some time with my you know, I remember one time when I was pushing my mom's wheelchair at Disneyland, my mom's wheelchair literally bald and hordes of people like please act, I actually screamed and felt like this is something that has to give, like I don't know how to have this conversation when I feel like if I expressed these things everyone would hate me, but it's something I feel so intensely and I feel like it's a conversation that should have been had because I think it puts endangered youth in the spotlight and I think it's really damaging and I don't know how to move things forward or how to have that conversation but it's like, I really care about the young people who are famous and I want everyone to be as healthy as possible and I am worried that it will be difficult to be as well, yes, I am really afraid. for young people on social media because especially those who have bigger platforms because they know everything that comes with cancer culture nowadays where oh I just froze, I'm sorry can you hear me?

Yes, you are good, oh, there you are, oh, you. Frozen, sincerely, I fear for the younger ones. on social media that are in the spotlight because with cancer culture, uh, and everything is so fast right now, there's obviously very little room to be human, that's a lot, it's like if you make a mistake and you make a little thing in your teenage years, then your whole life is a waste and I feel especially that way when I know how much I associated my self-esteem with what the internet thought about me growing up and I could only imagine if cancel culture was as prevalent as it is now back then yes people were trying to cancel me and tell me that I was this kind of person because I made this mistake.

I'd probably be convinced that the rest of my life was like a waste and that I was a terrible human being, so I'm just afraid that These little messes in some people's lives are going to define themselves by them and I just feel terrible and a lot of times it's unreasonable, like I've been seeing so many headlines of young tech speakers like they're embarrassed by certain things they've done and it's so unreasonable that it's like they're not doing anything different than any other 17 year old. years there are right now and I'm sure everyone writing these articles knows they've done the same things in their lives too it's like that, everyone will act like they're perfect and just try to get people to do things they've done themselves , you know and um, I don't know, and then what is left for someone in a position?

Think of pain like it's not meant to be resented, you know what I mean, like it's hard. I was walking down the street with my friend exploring a new city and someone walked up to me, grabbed me by the shoulders and yelled like aha. I just screamed in my face and didn't really appreciate the encounter, so I like to walk and I also thought I had to do it. A car was picking me up like the group I was with, yes, I had to go. to this place at a certain time and um, I went on, I said hello and I keep walking and then they say are you kidding me?

You're not going to stop, wow, you're like that and it's like I don't know. In that situation, what I'm supposed to do is that I'm someone who is very grateful for all the sport and attention I've received online, but in that situation I'm also still a human being and I don't do it. I think any human being should be treated that way and it would be against my character to stop and just allow someone to treat me like that, you know what I mean and then they yelled at me and called me out for not stopping because it's kind of like I guess that what I thought was like an obligation that I need to stop because true, that was an example of someone who I think thinks that he likes to own a part of me 100 yes, I have been called a little.

I've been yelled at more times than I can remember, but I'm also curious if you guys, in doing so, how long did you do the podcast for? We made the podcast. I think a year, but I think it was on camera because we took it off camera just audio only, which honestly is a lot less stressful. I think he lived on a platform like that, it wasn't YouTube and we knew how he liked the YouTube comments section. it worked and all that, but then we went to YouTube and then I think we did it for five months, six months after something like that, so it was like over a year in total.

I think we got through 55 episodes, which is like over a year. It's worth it, I'm curious how if your fan encounters changed during that because I noticed so I just totally signed up for social media for a couple of years and then while I was trying to meet up and like figure out who it was me and what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it and once I started, once I started talking about things that really mattered to me and I started, I literally had the mindset that it was okay if everyone went. away, but at least with five people, I will have a genuine connection with those five people and I have to trust that that will be okay and that will make a bigger difference and trusting that definitely hasn't been easy and there has been a lot of doubt about me. same, but I have realized that now the people who approach me are a different type of person.

I feel like, oh my God, I feel a connection with them. The things they say give me chills right now. Where I'm on this, you know, the girl from the other day is named Riley and she's the one who told me that the podcast helped her grow and changed her life and it's like it's a different kind of response than Hey, Where is the chiken? It's a lot more moving, it's a lot more uplifting and I feel like things are resonating with the people they're supposed to resonate with and there's a lot of hope in that, so I'm curious if you guys have had that experience.

I've explored projects that have meant something to you in a deeper way. How has that transformed your encounters with fans? I definitely think there's been a mix. I think there have been a lot of really refreshing encounters. As many times as I meet someone. grabbing my shoulders and doing something like that and demanding a photo. I have people come up and say they've learned something through my podcast or video or documentary or whatever, and I really appreciate those things and that happens a lot. many times and it's part of the reason I did what I did for so long and I'm sure I'll continue doing what I do.

I just have to figure out how I'm going to do that and how it makes sense. For me personally, yes, so I'm not in a hurry to get back in front of the camera, but I do want to continue making things that people can see and receive to hopefully spread a good message. I really appreciate this meeting, yes, can we talk a little bit about what you guys want to miss out on now and the kind of things you're solving today? Yes, of course, I mean right now like us. re um, we're working quietly and um, it's been the first time we've done it because in the past, as soon as we worked on something like that, the whole deal was to promote it on social media and let everyone.

I know, but in what we're working on now is like we didn't even tell our mom so, yeah, I don't know, I don't know and we'll be ready. Like, probably think about it, it's been, it's been, I can say that It's been a great pleasure to learn something new, um, and something that I'm very passionate about and to be able to get up and work on it, um, almost. every day now and um, yeah, it's been great and in the time that I'm not working, I've been exploring new hobbies and stuff like that. I think I just like it.

I have a true love for art in all its forms, um, that's how it was. Creating videos since I was five years old, when my sister bought a foldable video camera, we started making videos and showing up with the numbers and then when they smiled, they told me to just give me someone to choose from and make another video. Yes. We moved on and that's what we did to make it a career, luckily we were lucky enough to be able to do that, but I think when it became our career it took a little bit of the magic away from us because we started to have to fulfill this system that most views like so we can continue to do it and continue to make it a career, because you just make videos that you want, sometimes not everyone wants to see that and then you can.

I won't continue making videos because you don't make any money and I can't make any more videos. It was as if we wereChasing our tail there, well what can we do? That will also allow us to continue doing. videos um and uh that's what we found the balance there and then other things happened and stuff like that we said um but on the other hand I've been building a lot and I feel like that's become a creative outlet for me that I never wish that get paid to build, yeah, build like yeah, we've both been doing that a lot, we built a gazebo and our Hillside and we built a gazebo, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, when you say build, I thought it would be like that, so I built like I don't know a jewel box like a plate, you literally built a gazebo, yeah that's crazy, that's congratulations, it must feel like a huge accomplishment, it's nine and a half feet by ten feet and oh my gosh, I guess the dopamine flowed, it sure was a lot of fun, uh, and right now I'm building something for my sister at least and things like that they like, they really bring back my soul and they're rewarding, and um, I.

I don't know, that's something I would suggest to anyone is just do something, just put everything in and build businesses to have an outlet, whether it's like writing or even if you're not creative, it's just like solving fun math problems. I don't know if that's what you enjoy the most, just do something that pays you back and never think about getting paid for it and just do it for fun and just find a hobby. I think maybe just maybe Bulls and me. I'm just finding a good hobby. I agree with you. I also think that being like that it's very difficult, I guess, to not be motivated by money and I also recognize the privilege of saying that if there is any kind of financial stability in your life, but I feel like being motivated by money is just I mean, everyone We know, we all hear that it's like a recipe for disaster, but it gets ugly very quickly and leads to, I think, the biggest inauthenticity imaginable, like me.

I don't think it's possible to be any less authentic than when you say, oh, I have to keep making money and maintain the level of what I made last year, whatever that may be. It's just like, yeah, because there's always a way to win. make money faster and it's usually not the most respectful way and then you end up doing it and then you start losing respect for yourself so yeah I totally understand my grandmother called me out on that I think that too Social media like um we became a thing of how we continue to do as well as we did in previous years and stuff like that and we started thinking too much about money when like when we started YouTube we weren't.

They even paid me for the first year. I don't think we activated it. I don't think we figured out how to turn on monetization until we had over a million subscribers, so that wasn't our focus. I just like making videos and having fun and that's the most fun and that's when it was the most fun um and then the more business it became the less fun it became so I guess I don't want to like dissuade people from definitely There's a way to have fun, yes, but I think it's just keeping that passion and keeping the fire burning and not, um, not just focusing on the money, yeah, I hear you, I'm also curious, not just growing.

Growing in the public eye but also growing in the public eye. I feel like we've touched on a little, but I'd love to delve into how you like it. I guess you feel it needs to be done completely. move away from the public eye to grow up at a certain point or do you think it is possible to continue growing and be in the public eye at a young age? I think for different people there are different remedies for growing in personal growth and I think for us personally we just can't grow in the public eye, I just think I value people's opinions, um, sometimes more than I would like, even Yes I really feel like it's just someone trolling. for some reason I find myself listening to them and I don't want them to be right, so I just walk away to think okay, if I don't share my life with anyone, what would I find Joy doing?

Why I really need to be off social media while I find myself. I'm also very passionate about trying to use my life to make a positive change on this planet and I really want to make sure I don't. I end up doing something that's counterproductive and then I have to, you know, retrace my steps and do it better when I was able to start and do it to the best of my ability, so I think I have to really gather my thoughts and I'll become more articulate and I'll really figure out what that I am passionate about and then from there I will be able to do it without making too many mistakes, right?

Have you both discovered that you are passionate about similar things that you both love? the building sounds like yeah, our whole life has been like this, we've done everything together um and it's always like if Grayson does something that I can't do, I do it like the next hour or vice versa just because we see someone who looks exactly like that and it has the same capabilities and then we thought, "Okay, well, I guess it's an odd twin." it was just because he almost stood up and then it was proof that the other one could do it and then one took a step and then it was proven and then we just pushed ourselves, it's always been that way throughout our lives and everything we do.

So it's also kind of competitive, yeah, but it's like this guy with the same DNA as me can do this, so why can't I? I totally know, so we always put ourselves there and it's like it's a camaraderie too, um like. We're doing something and we're giving it a role that's nice to have with someone who wants to do it because you can go crazy getting lost in something that you're really passionate about and then it's like validation, like I think I did something that was really good or I would show him to Grayson: "Hey, do you think this is cool?" and if you said yes then I was confident in it and if you said no then I would probably try again so I feel like I need Him there for validation definitely um Ethan, you mentioned wanting to have or have a positive impact on your life and I have curiosity.

I'm always curious to know how a person defines what a positive impact is or how they get to the root of it. because I feel like it can be a very broad area and how different people interpret what a positive impact is can look very different from person to person, so what does good look like for each of you? Yeah, I think for me personally. I just had a lot of time to sit down and figure out what I felt was disturbing or something that made me angry about this world and the way it works and then, you know, try to change that, yeah, as best I can. and one of those things has just been environmental mentalism and how people treat the planet and I feel like we could do a better job at that and also the way we treat animals and other humans.

I know that sounds like a big task. a lot of things, but that's why I really want to take my time to think about how I can secure projects and maybe you know about the conversation or you know it and then maybe it will lead to a change, so, yeah, those are the three main things , yes that's how it is. Yes, I'm with Ethan on all those where we're working together on how we can get closer to making positive changes in all of those areas. Fortunately, we have more or less the same opinion about everything. Yes, yes, someone helps me and he is someone else who also helps. but there are huge overarching issues and it's like creating that approach plan as if it's something that should be well thought out and take some time, so that's why we don't want to rush and just talk about everything that's at stake. podcast when we never collected thoughts and maybe I just didn't want to approach it the wrong way, yeah, yeah, that's really admirable if you feel comfortable ending that question.

I would love to know what. advice that you would give to your younger self, um, in terms of being in the public eye, navigating that, um, but if you could just look back, if you could say something to yourself, what would it be, what would it be? Would it be? That's a good question. I still feel like I'm struggling to honestly understand what I should be saying to myself now, so I'm still figuring it out, but from a younger age I would say just do your thing because you'll attract people interested in what you do. and then you know that's how friendships are made, that's how all relationships are made, and on the Internet you have a lot of people in your life that maybe you would never meet before, so I want to make sure that you know how to surround yourself. with like minded people and I would say focus on what is in front of you and focus on being grateful for what you have in that moment and as always just want and feel like you need more than what you have.

I feel like there was a time when we were chasing subscriber numbers and doing things like that, but I think good advice at that time, a good closing line, would be that you don't need as much as you think. You do it one hundred percent. This conversation has been very satisfactory. I'm a big fan of you. I'm really excited to see where every time they come out with things. I'm very excited to see what they do. I think it's going to be really special and I and I definitely deeply admire that you're taking the time and space that you need to make sure that you're saying the things you want to say when you say them again, thank you.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate this conversation. I really enjoyed it and hope to listen to your podcast in the future. Yes, a lot just to have this conversation. I appreciate it. Yes Yes. Thanks guys.