Reimagining Musicals (Working In The Theatre #418)

Tennessee Williams once said that plays are not written, they are increasingly rewritten, which seems to be true for classic

musicals

and a new term has emerged. the point of a genre change and other songs by Lerner and Lane were interpolated the revival of the Gershwin Porgy and Bess ignited something of a firestorm with its changes allowing the ownership that controlled these works how directors approach the work to make it fresh and reinvent it I'm Patrick Pacheco from New York 1 in the LA Times for the American Theater Wing and our guests today are uniquely qualified to answer these questions.

I am delighted to welcome them to work in the

theatre

. Rob Ashford is a Tony Award-winning director and choreographer, his current Broadway project is Evita, which he choreographed and directed and choreographed about how to succeed in business and shows promise. He just returned from London, where he directed the new musical Finding Neverland and is also directing the revival of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof season. Ted Chapin is the president and CEO of Rodgers and Hammerstein, and has helmed more than 20 revivals. awards from Broadway and London and was president of the board of directors of the American Theater Wing and was the promoter of the recording of the musical Allegro.

Ted is also the author of a book about the birth of Sondheim's 1971 musical Follies, on which he worked as production assistant and director. Scott Ellis is currently represented by the revival of The Edwin Drood Mystery His many other credits include Harvey Curtains The Little Dog Laughed Steel Dock Company and She Loves Me He is also the Associate Artistic Director of the Roundabout Theater welcome everyone thank you let's start with the term revivals when did you first hear it? And why do you suppose it came about because of Ted? Well, you posed that question in the green room and I thought, okay, what's the first musical I know of that could be called a revival, even if it wasn't specifically called that? it was actually Annie Get Your Gun in 1967 Wow because Richard Rodgers at Lincoln Center Theater at Lincoln Center musical theater established for the Lincoln Center campus to do

musicals

, unfortunately it didn't last long, but he realized that Evan Ethel Merman was in and Irving Berlin wrote a couple of new songs and Dorothy Fields adapted the book and I don't know what inspired the feeling they needed to have in that show, but that's the first one that comes to mind that possibly wasn't performed. in the original text and so on and the score, wasn't it more traditional just when you revived a show to do the original staging, the original choreography, the original design and everything that was correct and what was good and so many of them came out ? in the tulle on tours and they would be on the road for so many years and then they would show up again tonight exactly so authenticity was key at that moment to see what the original was Scott, do you remember when you first heard it?

Well we were talking talking week I think you're right we think the first time we heard it was from Kathleen Kathleen Marshall yeah that's what I remember I remember her I think when we were doing Kiss Me Kate actually that's what I I remember, I just remember her saying that it's not just about reviving the show, it's about revisiting the show and making it so meaningful that a show that all three of you worked on was a revival of a show that all three of you worked on was. the 2002 revival of The Syracuse Boys Nicky Silver came and rewrote the original book Ted.

I think these ideas started with you. How did it come about? Yes, Nicky Silver had to start there. You? Because Scott directed it and you, cool, I did it. Like many revivals or revivals have started in the last 25 years with encores that the guys from Syracuse did and people thought it would be interesting, however, no one wanted to do the book and I think it may have been Scott's idea, no, I'm saying that oh really. Was it your idea where Todd's idea is? I think we both talked and said well, if this is a show that could be reviewed in the book, people think the book might have some problems, why don't we go in and actually try something? and the original book was by George Abbott, it was the first musical based on a Shakespeare play and I mean from what I remember and these guys can tell their own war stories, reading it in that round rehearsal room was one of the coolest things. fun.

I've experienced it once in my life and I thought this was going to be great because it had a very different sensibility, you know, it's kind of modern humor like what Nicky Silver wants to do and I thought this would be great and it just didn't work out that way. That way now, who chose Nicky Silver? Do you have to make your changes with the Rogers and have a certain organization that controls the rights to this Rodgers and Hart musical? I think reading was what like saying this is the idea this is what we're thinking of doing what do you think you imagine if the reading didn't go well the heritage would probably say this is going the wrong way?

It's also yeah, I also want to say part of the magic from my point of view is that if the idea of ​​Nicky Silver and the Syracuse boys is good to say, take the next step, you know, fly free, you know, and then We'll all get together and see if you can think of it. something because saying no is a bad idea, you must have very good reasons for saying no from the beginning. Sometimes I get in trouble by saying yes too much, but it's much more interesting, you know, I also think when you're watching. shows like this one and that one or whoever I was with and you could talk more about it from the farm, but I found it, well, why not try it?

You can always go back to whatever you had, but why not? Why not? I think what happened was good. I think one of the things was that these songs were so famous and loved that what happened to the new version of them and who delivered them and how they were delivered. I think that scared people, yes, because they want to know what they were. Everyone was up for a new book if they didn't care about the old one, but they still wanted the songs intact like in the course, so I think when Nikki read she made the show and all of us just tried to figure it out right.

In this version, who would sing that? In this version, who would sing that? How will it be arranged over dance arrangement B? What will the orchestrations be? All of those things were new, so I guess I don't mean the purists, I don't even just think. I think the audience wanted those traditional songs to be presented in a traditional way and I think with the new version of the book and that in some ways it felt a little at odds and it wasn't, it's interesting not to talk to the media about that, another resurgence, but you could also go back to a clear day, also more recently, which I respect and I think that's why not go and try something new, but it's just that there's a very difficult balance when you do it, it's very difficult and I think that it's just finding the balance and having something

working

in a rehearsal room that a lot of us have been in on a lot of projects and then you go on stage and you're like, oh wait a minute, it's not the same and by the way, it could be everything Otherwise, not so good things. in a reading and then you continue

working

on a scenario, it looks great, so I think it's a very fine balance to go back, if you watch and you're doing well, what would you do differently?

Of course, you can always go back, but I think what I did was embrace Nikki Silver and a new way of doing it and I think you have to try your hardest and also, since I had just played it, yes, yes, with great success and It was beautifully rendered and beautifully done, there wouldn't be a point for us to do that again on American Airlines. You know, the idea was just to reinvent it or revise it a little bit. Do you know how you, as directors, would balance what you proposed, whether you are purists or audience? audience expectations when you come to a revival, whether it's Mystery of Edwin Drood or Evita or How to Succeed. audience expectations versus your own personal vision of a show is a little crazy I have to say when I was going to make promises promises and I'm I'm not even kidding, the question most people ask is: are you going to do the figure 8 in Turkey?

Lurkey, are you going to do the figure 8 in Türkiye? Lurkey literally says: Are you serious? Yes, but yes, they were 100% serious. Everybody knew. Lurkey turkey from the tip you know you can YouTube the Tony Award dance is Donna McKechnie is from Aurélie is Margot Savage and I think these three women doing the Lurkey turkey and then all the boys and girls in the chorus do this figure 8 like not a complicated and fun step, fun pattern and that's Michael Bennett's score, yes, Michael Bender, square feet, it was fun, it was a great number, but I had no idea the weight of the figure 8, I mean, but it's something So.

There you never know what people might notice, like something that was characteristic of them and that you know you don't want to ignore, but you don't want to be a slave to it either. Did that intimidate you? It's amazing. Me and I didn't make a figure eight, you know, you mentioned that opening night, you look worse if yes, I think you're absolutely right, I mean, now I'm in the middle of this with Drude and you know, it's, it's, it's . Sort of right, do you take that last note that Betty Buckley made in the revival, I mean, in the original production and you really think that's it, that's what you remember, if that's what she says, they're very interesting people who knows it and who has experienced it? and I loved it, I've experienced, you know, feelings about it.

I always go to the office alone or I try to go to the office and go. My stepmother, who lives in Florida, didn't see, you probably know the original promise of Brahman or she certainly didn't see the. The Mystery of Edwin Drood, so can't we just watch it that way and get people into it, a generation that has never seen the show and that's the balance? You know you don't want to do it right, this is what they did back then and would you know you got it? How helpful is Rupert Holmes in this? Well, I think anyone who's lucky enough to do a writer revival with the writer yeah, you're way ahead of the game, you know?

I guess that could be a problem too, but I think you're way ahead of the game because you have them in the room with you and they can talk about it and there have been changes in Mystery of Edwin Drood. There are things that haven't been seen in the United States that were made in London, so that way we're doing new things and last night we made changes and cuts and rearranged things, so it's a blessing to have a writer there. Ted, your report is different because you are protecting the brand well, sorry for using it, I know it's not new, okay, but obviously they are dead, there are living heirs, how do you navigate your way through this balancing act as well as I?

I'm listening to Scott and Rob. I think about an experience we had because in the Rodgers & Hammerstein days they not only had iconic choreography, for example, Agnes DeMille and then Jerome Robbins and the King and I, and they were. Businessmen tough enough that they actually owned the choreography mm-hmm I think everyone paid for it after that because everyone said wait a minute, but they were the authors and they were the producers at that time, when the National Theater asked about doing carousel years ago. because they wanted to do musicals, the second thing they said after asking for the rights was that we don't want to use Agnes DeMille and if you force us to use Agnes DeMille we won't do it, so that was a dilemma.

Dorothy Rogers was still alive and she said but it's well it works if Agnes DeMille I said well we can say no and we won't see the carousel and the irony is we said yes because I think part of my job is to keep these shows alive and Una One of the ways to keep them alive is to be open to new thoughts and new ways of doing them and, ironically, they hired Kenneth Macmillan who was an excellent ballet choreographer who did the ballet in the second act and then unfortunately died, so that the rest did.

I couldn't do um and it won the Tony when it came here and ironically it was more of a throwback to a different kind of ballet that Agnes de Mille was working on again but because people because it was well done and People loved it and it got the essence of a kind of passionate dance. People loved it, so again, I should have said that if I force the issue, you should do it. Agnes DeMille. I didn't think it was the right decision. You know, they came up with something. that was interesting, that's very Rodgers more open than saying Dorothy Rogers was fine, fermentation, yes and no, I mean, Mary Rogers is a wonderful human being on the level that she is, she can tell you more than you want to know about her father , however, has an incredible connection to his father's work, it's true, I've told the story before, but in the first trailer for Oklahoma, Trevor Nunn directed Susan Stroman and choreographed nationally, it was in Hugh Jackman the first job from which he pulled a hat after.

All straight from Australia it was a very exciting night and they got to the moving title song and the wind is coming right behind the rain and she leaned over to me and said they were singing in D flat, it's a D natural and and I mean it's a resourceincredible and the fact is that she was right and the musical director said it was a technical rehearsal, we got careless, she is absolutely right. We will fix it so that as far as I am concerned I can use what you know, the lineage of the heirs, if they have a connection to things that you know are great because they also have very good instincts about whether a production there is a good or a bad production if we should do it Scott, as associate artistic director of the rotunda, have you been to a situation in which you have wanted to revive a musical but the heirs who control it have not allowed you to make the changes?

Yeah, before Harvey, when we thought we needed to find something in that place that you said you suggested, well, maybe we'll go back to watching Bad Eight and take over Studio 54 and create our nightclub and really do everything. possible and let's really make a new look. In the young cast, you know everything that's cool, cool, this is what you know, so in meeting with the writers it became clear in the conversation that yes, absolutely, you could do it if you basically stick with the same choreography, the same idea, etc. You suddenly think, why would I want to do that?

And I think going back to the directors is a challenge, because if we're going to do it, we want to do it too. You know, put our put a stamp on it or have the opportunity to see it in a different way so that you are also any social problem of a certain era, now when we made promises and in How to Succeed the whole sexist thing was not such a big problem. You know what I mean? When we did Promises, we added a couple of Bacharach David songs for Kristin Chenoweth's character of Fran because we felt like her character had been left out, she was a victim and that was that. so we wanted to give him a moment of joy in the show, so that's what we put in.

I'll say a little prayer for you, so give her a moment of happiness and let the audience realize that you know she was involved. In this little matter, she brought some positive out of him, as well as all the negative, just to try to balance that out a little. The same with the house is not a home, yes, the house is not a home because you don't. I don't hear or see Fran for a long time in that musical and then the next time you see her, she's taking a handful of pills, so you usually have to check in with her along the way and just chart that journey. and that was even the son of the writers they were the same writers but they were not skeptical Nilsa they were open to it but we had to prove it to them so we had to put together the songs they played it, Neil Simon came for Bacharach and how David got to the rehearsal studio , they saw it, they saw it before they approved of even trying it on stage because they wanted to make sure it made sense, you know, the whole idea. interpolating numbers and how many what the tipping point is do you have any idea Ted Scott what the tipping point is in terms of how many numbers you can actually interpolate into a program before it's not the program?

Well, it's engineering. Rob talked about promises. um, one of the things. I think and can understand why the pledge authors were open to that and the eight misbehaving authors weren't very open to it. It has to do with what the show's fairly recent history promises it doesn't do. Many people know the score. It was a very particular pop sound that was very exciting for Broadway, but it hasn't been made and I guess it hasn't been very successful at the regionals, at the summer fairs and at Muni, so that those authors who hear the idea that your show could be done again I'd probably be more open to hearing what's changed in society to adjust this, whereas some bad behavior was kind of a fluke, I mean the Manhattan Theater Club on the Upper East Side and you know, someone he said what about Fats Waller and they got together and it had something magical, you know, something ethereal and the original cast was incredible and I haven't seen many other productions, but I can guess I can feel why people I would say I don't think We should get involved with that, while we don't agree with the promises because it's like you're talking about an original cast, a great cast, a great production, but absolutely, but how many years ago is that?

No, I know, but I'm just and also material designed for those performers, you know, you know, we said no, that was an incredible production. I still remember it, you know, but not to go back, I mean, you can't use those. the people you play with can't do that, so why not in the brain? And by the way, this is nothing against the authors, they are all alive and whatever. I totally understand, but I feel like there will be times when you go well. let it go and now, but oh yeah, have a pickle, no and on a clear day, what was the least in the season, I mean, there's a show that I don't think it's, I mean, it was first of all, it was reviewed .

As soon as Broadway closed, there was a tour or something like a summer thing. I know they started, they started messing with that show, then they made the movie and put in a couple of songs that had gotten stuck. So it wasn't immediately a big hit and it started causing problems right away, so the bold thing, I mean, it was a bold revision last year. James changed gender. Change well, the love interests are absolutely fascinating and I can. I can understand the various properties that go along with that, you know, and in the end it didn't work out and who knows why that was really huge.

I don't remember a show that you know of that's been watched. that and I changed that dress, yeah, and I kept the title, I mean, yeah, I was crazy about you, yeah, so that's a show that changed enough to become a new show, right, girl, crazy, too crazy about you, so many changes in so many alterations and that. became its own show, it's kind of a rule that if a revision is usually required, if the original piece doesn't work or is out of date, we can say yes, I think I mean, I also think it's Flower Drum Song because Well , that's what I was going to bring, right?

It was a major revision that you commissioned from David and well, actually it was again, everyone started out differently and in that case, when the production of King and I was done in '96, the director of that I met David Henry Wong and they entered into a conversation and David, who sort of said you know all the Asian Americans who just poop on Flower Drum Song as hopelessly outdated, hopelessly impossible and secretly everyone loved it so he said, "leave it." I, you know, how about we take a look at it and why does it bloom again?

Because Flower Drum Song, frankly, didn't do much, so the idea of ​​taking a pretty radical look at it was kind of fascinating, but we talked about changing the title. we talked about not calling a flower drum song or any of the golden alternatives, a golden gate, which is what has been used more or less because it still was in the time period in San Francisco, the Asian-Chinese community -American, which was all from the original it was just seen from a different point of view with a very different story and done in a very different way and anyway Rob, there are certain books that are considered the gold standard to some extent gypsy , certainly, uh, little Sweeney Todd late night music, you know? we layer so how to succeed is often considered a pretty solid book when you can't relive how to succeed what were the discussions about updating the book, changing the pump and we're talking about a help where there were three writers I think which is a district, one of them, and two others that are here somewhere.

It wasn't, I felt like it's a really solid book and score, so it wasn't like we came in and said like we really needed it. What are we going to do? How are we going to solve this? What was the challenge with that in having Daniel Radcliffe play take your pumpkins, yeah, well, having him play fit at a much younger age just changed the dynamic of that, of that. role instead of being someone who was in the middle or not in the middle, not just middle-aged, but, for example, someone in their 30s who is trying to find a way to skip some steps, became a matter of youth a book and saying "I can do this whatever it takes" it's about someone jumping off a building and trying to figure out how they're going to land on the way down and youth is what drove that rather than waiting one minute.

I can, I can work with the system, you know, so you found a great second lead because you know I saw the original with Rudy Vallee, who was just another different creature from another world and the revivals that I've seen have I haven't really been able to find someone to make it their own and Daniel together we're like I can't believe this relationship, yeah, completely, yeah, and I won the Tony for his first musical. Well deserved, Scott, you work on a perfect, but oh, a book that is certainly considered one of the perfect books because she loves it, yes, yes, no.

I mean, I keep thinking about Jo master off, oh yeah, Oh, Jo, I think it's really one of the top five, you know, great, great books, and yeah. it's when you get in there, so Little Night Music in the same way when you really dig into it, you get into it and you're like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing book and I think books for musicals take so many hits that they don't get appreciated. until Really, when you really look at them, you think this is amazing and when they're not, I think it seems to me that when we look at revivals, we really look at the book which is always a little complicated.

It has to be the music tends to be, you know, the glorious one is always blamed, you know, but when you find a great book like she loves me, it's a kind of amazement and the cabaret too, the cabaret, there are a lot of them. , you know. They're just great books, you know, and I think it makes your job as a director a lot easier. I'm part of the problem we find is that The Raj is not the good books for Rodgers and the Hammerstein musicals are as good as No Books, but they come from a time when three hours in a Broadway theater was just what everyone accepted, so the challenge with Rodgers and Hammerstein is to cut them off and it's interesting that there is a wonderful reprise of the King's Puzzlement song in The King and I. for his son and for his son and there was a place in Texas, the lyrical setting who does musicals with original orchestrations and all kinds of extraordinary and extraordinary areas, so it was a full three hours and when I saw the King a couple of years ago, I realized, oh, wow, that gives those two characters a moment so wonderful because one of them will become the king and the other one will threaten to leave with his mother, but he will stay there, but then I said, Anyone?, so they cut it. all the time and someone said well, the problem is that you have to cast child singers if you're going to put him in there, so it adds a burden to Louie's casting in Chula Longhorn, whereas if you eliminate him, yes, you can have actors, yeah, and it's like that, it's all connected and if you're going to take out the King and me, it's probably the one that people have spent that on and Western people are funny, which I still think was only added because of the person's contract. who played the role. when people say, is it okay if we don't do the first number in the second act of the King and I and that's easy, you brought up a fascinating point that is cutting?

I mean our attention spans are a lot shorter and everyone really wants to be home at 11:00 yes hot please or it's a minute every time we walk in and it says there's no intermission come on you're at half way home. I discovered that there are modern shows that I watch and 62 minutes It's time to take a break because there is a complicated period in those 19 oh no, you're right, the only thing you can't is what you know about How to Succeed, for example, which is a long first act that's like an hour 20 hour 24 right there, behind you, you know, maybe you know it's like that, but again, there's not much to cut and I also want to have room for some dance arrangements in there, which actually expands it a little bit so that What we tried to do was keep the power, keep the office and the finches constantly go up in every transition in everything that's too hot to help keep the engine going anyway so you feel like you're in his coattails and let Daniel let you fly, you can fly with him to the point where you won't look at your watch, but when they're that long, you can't, you can't have rhythm.

I just mean, you know, I just went through this with Trude and I'll say exactly the same thing, absolutely exactly the same thing, is that the book is simple, we've made some cuts, but it's a long first act and it sets up the second. he acts wonderfully to make it all worth it, but you're absolutely right, it's just those transitions, I mean, they can be five seconds. I said find a faster way to do it the way it's just drive, drive, drive, so in the end they're like, oh, okay, well, if it's beautifully built, if it's a beautifully built piece, you take out a piece. , everything falls apart, potentially, to a certain extent, potentially, you know, I mean even a little bit of night music that has that brilliant book written bymind.

I fell in love with it, no, I missed it because I kept recording it, but other than that, no, I didn't miss anything, it wasn't like I felt deprived, I felt like I watched that show. which I had always wanted to see but there were some choral moments that I missed just because of the size and I think the length is also interesting because we don't talk about them, but in most of these revivals or any of them you never have the full orchestra that they originally had, so the sound will always be different. you know you can imagine going to see shows you know with all that as you'll never see you'll never hear that again and then there's Chicago with the original it was originally orchestrated for the 15 players that are on stage at the Ambassador.

Theater, yes, we mentioned it obviously in the Little Night Music & Company shows that you've directed, how aware are you of what the princess production is like when you come to do a revival, first of all, I always say that if you're going to do a revival, it doesn't matter if it's a play or you have to give it a lot of props, you know, even the original director, you know, I mean the princess is a genius and there isn't a single show that has Harvey in it recently where don't go back and I go over everything I can find about the original production because I feel that it will only help me if anything not to do that or do something else and not repeat that or define the things that I do, oh, I understand why they are By doing it, I think which I mean it's a little different just because that's how it's printed, you're such an incredible director, and when you approach any of the shows that he created, I feel like it's a little daunting, you know?

I don't find that with other shows because that's how it's printed, but I still go back and take what I can and respect it and then try to move on and do what I'd like to do. I mean, how relevant is saying Wilfred Leaches to the original production of Drude, it's a good question because, again, I feel the same way about the tour we originally did. I have to appreciate him, hug him and thank him, and what I don't know is that he knows Rupert well, now I understand what Rupert is. brought what Wilfred brought, but it's also very Jude is a bit different because you can't do that except an English Music Hall of amusements, that's what it's intended to be, so in some ways it dictates a bit more of what my job was. .

Hopefully the cast was great and brought a new dance and you know, a new look, you know, structurally it stays that way, but I always go back to the original and watch and then hopefully I can go ahead and do my thing, Rob , you're the only director, you don't choreograph almost your own material, now you choreographed Evita, Michael Grandage obviously directed it, why did you choose to choreograph when someone else was directing? Well, we did it in London in 2006, although I work with Michael and Guys and Dolls in London and then we did a Vita was what we did the next year, but I want to be totally honest, no, I don't make those rules for myself, it seems like a Silly making those rules, you know.

I mean, I love choreographing and you know, it was exciting to be able to bring a Vita here too and you know, I feel blessed to be able to do everything I can do and I love collaborating. I love to collaborate, that's how I learn and that motivates me, so sometimes it's lonely to do both in some ways, so it's like a nice welcome, you know, to collaborate with someone again, so, but, but we did in London and So we, when we did it, we did it here last season. Did Michael Grandage ask anything about the original, how do you print the production?

Well, I mean, if he knows that he does his homework, of course, and he certainly was completely aware of it and knew. Everything there was to know about it, as far as what Scott said, the research and the kind of work that goes into finding out what and why, and you also know we have the author, so we had Tim and Andrew, who were who. We also talked a lot about why they wrote certain things, what things they wanted, what things, in particular, they were asked to write what things they know, so that was a great source to have, also for you and Tim to know and, at this time , of course. you had a movie and you could more than anything we had this time, I think they didn't have it the first time, you know, everyone knows Argentina's awareness of the politics of the place, you know, people go on vacation there now hmm and I think that when the original Evita was written and seen, I don't think anyone would have been there, I mean, it was like it was a different time, it was a different place and it wasn't a place that felt open to that kind of thing and I also think that what they were trying to do at the time was tell less of a fact-based narrative, although there are a lot of facts in it, but more of a fantastical theatrical representation of this woman's life and you know. and Che Guevara is the perfect example of that, you know, I mean the idea of ​​bringing in this other character, I don't think they've ever met, but they have this, you know, that was the stage adaptation, a beautifully made production and brilliant.

I actually did it in you know, in summer stock, that how to print Larry for production, it was exciting to do, exciting to do dances, I danced in it, yes I did, I was one of the slouches that danced with you, you gotta love me , I was putting this. The production is like that, right, that's right and we put it in London, so it was done in 2006 in London and there was a lot of discussion about that because what we're talking about and this is true of the sound of music, obviously, when there's films. that are made of these productions and then the reruns come back that was a song that was a song that was added for the movie that's right and it won the Oscars and they won the Oscar and it's a great song and we wanted, we wanted to put it in the program because it's great song and the question was where hmm, that was the question: where could it work? because the place it plays in the movie is kind of like the end of her life and because there's a beautiful song already written for the musical that takes place at the end of her life, but she's on the balcony and they pass by and she He sings about all the options he had, which works wonderfully, but he did see the place where he found it.

It feels like it fits him like a glove. It's really behind the walls with Che and Ava and when you know Che, it basically becomes Perón and her and her the first sign of her illness at the end of the walls for the che a neighbor when she talks about she is praying that my body falls apart and then she can talk to Peron so that it works wonderfully. I think where she is and she feels like she's always been there. I can't imagine it wasn't really Scott. Have you come close to a revival? from a musical in which you have interpolated other songs, it's funny.

I was sitting here thinking I had completely forgotten that my first show I ever did was Flora the Red Menace, which was a revival with a new book and we came up with a new concept and We drank, we went back to the jug and John's EP trunk and Fred and we pulled some songs out of his trunk and put them on his ID, so weirdly I forgot we ever did that, but we did exactly that and a totally different concept. so we did it, we did it, but John and Fred Fred we were alive and we sat around a kitchen table and we mixed and matched and brought things out if I write the book with that habit of George and Fred and Fred wrote Florida and it was very successful and Hal Prince was the producer of the shows he produced, yeah, and as far as the sound of the music goes, obviously I must have done something good and if I remember this, the title of the song there are two songs written. by Richard Rodgers throughout the film I have confidence in a good thing and people always want to put it in theater productions and for the most part what guides their judgment what can we get away with not to see if the people on the stage will trust the stage version because it works, what I've realized now is that it works wonderfully differently than the movie and it's the same story, so there's enough for people who know the movie without doing it slavishly, they like the movie right away, when The when.

My favorite things are with the Mother Abbess and Maria and you know, before she goes to the Von Trapp house and the audience says, but it's worth it and you get the two Max and Elsa songs that aren't in the movie, do you believe? Does the audience ever come out for a moment and say, Oh, movie song, movie song, or it's good, something good, it actually replaces a song that no one knows, called an ordinary couple, and it's a strange little song, an ordinary couple, so it fits easily. but I have confidence in everything, I have confidence that it is a brilliant movie song because she goes when she leaves Nonnberg Abbey and wanders and arrives at the Von Trapp it is a travel song if you do it on stage if it starts with her as a nun , has to dress up, has to let you know that you can't act in Salzburg on stage like you can in the movie, so I've seen a lot of attempts to change clothes elegantly on stage and Changing clothes is not an elegant gesture.

You started this conversation by saying that you were open to ideas. Which are? Do you have hard and fast rules? What are your own biases because you know the job so well? What are your own biases when it comes to people? that you come up with ideas for a review and I would like to say that I am not biased because the years that I was in the theater I mean, I know what happens when you really do a show, therefore, I think that what I have been the most careful to understand what their problem is, so I ask you a question, why do they do it?

What can I listen to and guide them and tell them you know I've really learned from the years I've been around? I've been here saying you're the problem, what you're perceiving is a problem, it may not be a problem or say it's something very interesting, let's try this, but you know there's a little bit of hesitation, it's like that, you know every Circumstance is different and you just use your best instincts. If you were directing a Rodgers and Hammerstein musical, what would you ask Ted? What would you like to know about the controlling properties in terms of changes that you, as directors, might want to make?

I don't know if I would ask as much up front as I would wait until I liked my first pass, that in my head about what to do, yeah, and no matter what it's called, what factors needed to be taken into account in that first pass. like you're going to do this at the Donmar Warehouse with 250 seats and it's a postage stamp or whether or not you're going to give this amazing lead actress who's not a great singer but is perfect for the role or you know the producers would like her to we would do it do it, you know, with a set of eight instead of twenty or something like that.

I would allow those things to be taken into account like you did first and then I would come to Ted and say, "Okay, here's the deal," I guess if you come. to the farm after you've thought about it and you know they'll be open to listening, yes, but because you absolutely have and you know we've had a bit of this in our history in various things and oh it's brilliant it's totally collaborative it doesn't feel like if you were going oh but it's not because also if we are not considered a resource I mean we should be a resource and you know the knowledge that Hopefully those of us who are not the writers or the families have learned over our years to deal with this.

If what we've learned isn't useful, you're a bit of a fool. No, yes, we don't have to agree. above all, but it's great, thank you very much gentlemen for a very stimulating and very educational conversation. I really appreciate it, thank you, thank you for joining us, these programs are offered by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York and partnership with our friends at CUNY TV on behalf of American Theater Wing I'm Patrick Pacheco and thank you for joining us on another edition of work in the theater. There's so much more to American Theater Wing than just the Tony Awards, American theater.

Wing's website has a wealth of information. There are about 700 hours of material on the website. 700 hours, that's a lot of material. Here's the jam. Everyone is free. There are videos. There are podcasts that you can download directly to your iPod. You see artists talking about what inspires. them and why they got into the business, it's great to be able to hear from people like Stephen Sondheim, Patti LuPone, right, Scott Ellis, Donna McKechnie, programs like Springboard NYC and the theater intern group are great opportunities for young people who are trying of entering the business. but the Jonathan Larson scholarships for new composers are great and just another example of how the wing is doing a wonderful job of nurturing the talents of young writers and artists.

What the American Theater Wing does with these programs is immerse you in artists currently working in the business. what the wing provides is inspiration. I'm Jen Damiano, I'm Hunter Bell, I'm Bobbie, staggered. I am in countenance. If you love theater, visit american Theater Wing.org. It's all at American Theater Wing.org. Click and check it out, maybe you'll learn something