Meet the Press NOW — April 19

If it's Friday, Israel strikes back, we're following the fallout after the IDF launched what sources say was a limited attack inside Iran, as Tyan downplays the fallout and U.S. officials deny any involvement, plus it's now being reported. has assembled a full jury of 12 people in the six alternates. Sitting in Trump's historic hush money criminal trial, attention now turns to the scope of his potential testimony and cross-examination and House Speaker Mike Johnson joins Democrats to promote emergency aid for Ukraine, but it could cost him his position as yet another Republican. joins the effort to potentially oust him from leadership on the issue welcome to

meet

the

press

now I'm Kristen Welker.

We begin today with an international effort to reduce tensions in the Middle East after Israel carried out strikes overnight in response to that massive Iranian attack. airstrike less than a week ago now, sources familiar with the situation tell NBC News that last night Israel launched what was described as a limited strike inside Iran and that Israel is currently assessing its effectiveness and resulting damage. Iranian state media reports that the country's air defenses were involved in several provinces claiming that three small drones were shot down in central Iran, which is also home to Iranian military bases and nuclear facilities, for days the Biden administration had been urging Israel to show restraint as he considered his retaliation options and, according to a separate family source.

Regarding the matter, Israeli officials notified the United States last night that their response was forthcoming, but today, while

meet

ing with G7 allies in Italy, Secretary of State Anthony Blinkin emphasized that the United States was not involved. I'm not going to talk about that except to say that the United States has not been involved in any offensive operations. Our focus has been, of course, on making sure that Israel can defend itself effectively, but also on reducing tensions, avoiding conflict, and that remains our focus now in a sign that all parties are. In fact, in trying to reduce tension in Israel, Iran and the United States are keeping very quiet about the incident.

When approached by NBC News, both Prime Minister Netanyahu's office and the IDF would not confirm whether Israel was behind the attack. In Iran, meanwhile, Iranian state media continues to downplay the impact of last night's attack and here in Washington the Biden administration faces questions about its silence after those attacks to hear from White House

press

secretary Karen Jean Pierre. said in today's briefing why don't you have any comments? At this time several hours have passed since the reported strike. That's certainly enough time for the administration to investigate and come up with something to say, so I'm not going to speak or speculate on any of the reports out there.

I'm not going to comment and just leave it, it's part of your strategy to reduce tension. Look, I'm going to be super aware again and I get the interest, obviously, I understand the interest and, uh, and I'm going to disappoint a lot of people. people here, uh, this afternoon, uh, I just don't have anything to share. The good efforts of my colleagues in the White House, who join me now, are NBC News International correspondent RAF Sanchez in Tel Aviv and NBC's Monica Alba is outside the White House. RF, let me. Let's start with you in Tel Aviv, what the reaction has been where you are and what the broader reaction has been within the region.

Well, Kristen, it's been about 20 hours since that attack in western Iran and it's very surprising for both Iran and Israel. trying to downplay what is happening this morning, we heard today from Iranian President Ibrahim Rahisi, this man is a hardliner, he is one of the Iranian officials who said earlier in the week that any Israeli attack would be met with immediate retaliation and massive and yet Kristen when she gave that speech said nothing at all about today's attack. The Iranian state media tried very hard to project an image of calm and here in Israel, as you mentioned, the official line is that the government neither confirms nor denies responsibility, we have not heard from the prime minister.

Benjamin Netanyahu we don't expect it and this appears to be a public messaging strategy designed to give Iran an exit ramp; is designed to allow them to choose not to retaliate without being seen to lose face in terms of what we know about The attack itself occurred around 4:00 a.m. local time. The main target appears to have been an Iranian military base near the city of Isfahan. A family source told me this was a limited attack. The Israelis spent several hours later assessing the damage. What do we do? I don't know at this point, Kristen, if this attack was carried out with surface-to-surface missiles, if it was an Israeli-Iranian manned aircraft, or if it was drones, but as you said, we and Israeli officials are very strict with the LIF right now, well, it's extraordinary. that we're basically getting the same reaction from officials around the world regarding this incident, but this just speaks to how delicate this moment is and how much concern there is that one false move, one statement in the wrong direction could turn this on a climb. well, I think that's exactly right, that's why we're seeing so much discipline from both the Biden Administration and the Israeli government.

Nobody wants to be seen deceiving Iran. No one wants to be seen bragging about any of this. Which is very remarkable, very surprising, Kristen. It is here in Israel that the military has not imposed new restrictions on the civilian population, which appears to be an indication that the Israeli government considers, at least for now, that Iranian retaliation is not imminent. Now we are on Shabbat. The Jewish Sabbath here in Israel was a In a couple of days since Passover it has been quiet, it has been calm here in the streets of Tel Aviv and it is very surprising when you compare it to last Saturday, when that wave of Iranian missiles and drones were On the way, the Israeli army appeared on television almost every day. hour updating the public and there were restrictions schools were closed and people were told not to gather that is not happening right now amazing disparity R thank you for bringing that to us from the ground there in Tel Aviv Monica let me address you what you do?

Do you know what your sources tell you about the conversations between US officials and their counterparts? What is the private message that is being conveyed? We know, Kristen, that you are in almost constant contact on a variety of topics, but when it comes specifically to this From Israel to Iran response, really the administration across the agencies is being incredibly secretive and that's intentional, it's by design and that's partly to ensure that any kind of temperature here doesn't flare up any further, it's trying to reduce any of these stresses. and the president has been clear throughout his conversations with Prime Minister Netanyahu about a week ago that the United States supports Israel and its right to defend itself and has characterized that type of support as ironclad, but when it comes to warnings about a broader war or becoming a broader conflict, the United States has been consistent in saying it wants to do everything it can to prevent it and Secretary Blinkin was very clear today and said the United States had no role in this reported response and we knew that going into that the president Even Telegraph told Prime Minister Netanyahu in their most recent conversation that if he decides to go ahead and respond to Iran, the United States will not be a part of it, but also during that conversation Kristen, the president, had told him said that it should think very carefully and very critically about its next steps here and it does not seem that Israel has heeded that warning, instead deciding to follow its own route here, so this is another example in this already tense relationship so far. throughout this six-month war in which the United States supports Israel, but it is not that Israel is necessarily listening to everything that the United States says from the point of view of its advice, although the White House is always quick to say that it is not It is your responsibility to tell Israel how to make its own military decisions.

Kristen, you are right to point out that, Monica, the relationship between President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu, which appears to be increasingly strained, is an important part of this story. Let me ask you about another aspect that I know you've been watching on Capitol Hill. Hill, all the actions that are being built there in the future that would provide aid to Israel, to Taiwan and also to Ukraine, of course, have been delayed for months, it looks like they could get a vote as soon as tomorrow, what do you think? say your White House sources? As they privately watch the action on the hill, they really breathed a sigh of relief today after that procedural hurdle was cleared and the fact that it looks like this could happen to them is very good news.

They have been pushing for this to happen in different formats. for weeks and months, as you just said, and they've really been emphasizing the urgency for Ukraine in terms of the battlefield needs, but also for Israel because of what we saw just a week ago in terms of having to mount that defense after Iran. launched all those drones and missiles, the money that is basically in this package that would go to Israel would replenish that Iron Dome defense system and other air defense capabilities directly so that they see a specific need and connection for that and then these other National security. priorities that the president has been talking about for so long remember that they wanted to put them all together in what is known as a supplemental funding package, but the fact that now it seems that they are going to act separately at least the president and the House Blanca encouraged If this makes it across the finish line, she has every intention of signing it Kristen, okay, fantastic report, as always, Mónica Alba, great to see you this Friday, thank you.

Now I want to bring in two experts, Bal Saab, a former Defense Department security adviser in the Middle East. now an associate fellow at Chadam House and Aaron David Miller, former State Department advisor on Arab-Israeli issues, now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, thank you both for being here. I really appreciate it. Aaron, let me start with you and understand. your reaction to what happened overnight, these attacks from Israel that are now considered limited and officials from Israel to the United States being very tight-lipped this morning, what do you make of that?

You know, last night, uh, TV, uh, it seemed to me like we were on the cusp of World War III and in the morning no one talks about it and I think that's symptomatic of the extraordinary um ying and yang that we've seen over the course of of the last 10 days, excuse me, I mean, there were two paths that could have been taken on this. have escalated to the war that no one wants, or alternatively, Israel and Iran could have engaged in some fairly kinetic signaling messages about do's and don'ts, which may or may not govern their behavior in the future and you ended up with two answers they avoided by going up the escalator, but I would just add an extra point, you know, like Dorothy said to Toto and The Wizard of Oz, we're not really in Kansas anymore, a new threshold has been crossed here, direct attacks from each side on each other's territory and the only question I would ask that I don't have an answer to is whether or not those new thresholds will lead to risk aversion on the part of Israel or Iran or risk preparedness as we move forward because the relationship between Israel and Iran does not It's going to disappear and it's going to become more and more competitive, well, that's a fascinating question, Bal, let me ask you that.

Do you have a response to what Aaron has raised? Can you characterize how tenuous this moment is, like Aaron said last time? That night it looked like we might be on the brink of World War II and now, obviously, it looks like we've stepped back from the brink. Yes, thank you Erin for asking a very difficult question. It's good to be with you. Look, he's right. Uncharted Territory. It's a new normal, it used to be what we call a shadow war, indirect Iranians through proxies, Israelis pursuing Iranian objectives, but in the region, not in Iran proper, so the stakes are much higher now, room for incorrect calculations is a misperception.

Much larger than what we are seeing right now are two belligerents who seem to want to rewrite the Rules of Engagement and very eager to reinforce their own deterrence, which, paradoxically, as they try to do so, are getting closer and closer to war. suddenly deterring what is supposed to be a means to an end and the end being to avoid war, is becoming an end in itself and is an incredibly dangerous situation. We were really lucky in the last few days not to end up with From WhatAaron was talking, I mean maybe not World War III, but at least regional war, what are you doing with Belal?

And then Aon in the United States responded to the fact that everyone is being very secretive, but based on our sourcing, we send a pretty firm company. message behind the scenes that now is the time to de-escalate and I guess the concern that it's not just Iran, but also its proxies, is what worries the United States, yeah, I'm not sure what's left, frankly , in that menu we could use. toolkit to really try to deescalate the situation given the fact that Aon will agree to this, we don't have control, okay, we have some influence over the Israelis, we have a good communication channel with the Israelis, but we don't control none of them.

This and that is why we communicated this publicly and privately to the Israelis and then there is also a different type of deterrence that has really reigned in the Israelis, which is the attack itself by the Iranians. It was not an easy attack to defend. I know it was a 99th percentile in terms of interception, but you can't take that for granted next time, so the Israelis saw it and then of course you have to take into account American preferences and therefore ended up decreasing, but it still raises big questions next time: what if the Israelis next week or next month carry out a similar attack on Damascus and eliminate Syrian Iranian personnel and then the Iranians do the exact same thing? and we end up with the same vicious circle. um we can't guarantee that the next time we have it, we're going to be unlucky.

Well what's up with that and this idea when Bal says the United States is simply not in control President Biden urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to take victory after Iran launched those drones and hundreds of them were intercepted by Israel and the United States Joined. It is clear that Prime Minister Netanyahu at this time, but at others, is not listening to President Biden. who also urged him to come up with a plan to mitigate civilian deaths in Gaza. You know, Christen and Balal are right. We don't have control. In six months we will soon be in the seventh month of the Israeli war in Gaza. and, frankly, if you asked me how it's going to end, I couldn't tell you the American influence when the parties, whether it's Israel, Hamas or Iran, and Israel, when the parties are caught in a conflict that they believe is vital to their national interests, even existential ones.

In nature, the influence of external parties, even Israel's closest ally, is limited and Balal knows that the Middle East is littered with the remnants of great powers that believe they could impose their plans, their dreams, their ambitions on smaller ones. , and it's simply not like that. Add up, I think containment here and management if we're lucky, but the PA raises a fascinating point the next time the Israelis get into some kind of bujaja and decide to eliminate an IRGC commander, the question is whether Iran and Israel they would believe now or not. that they got their way the first time and there wasn't a Third World War or a regional war, maybe they can do it again and that's why I think the new reality creates in many ways, unfortunately, a greater propensity to take risks.

Instead of holding back, is there anything else the United States can do to use its influence over Israel to try to urge a reduction in tension? Right now, obviously, there have been calls for aid to be conditional on them providing a very clear plan to mitigate civilian deaths and there are also calls to withhold weapons, which has not happened. Should the US do more here? Well, can and should are two very different things, obviously, can, yes of course, but I don't really feel like they were. I was saying that when you're in such a tense and highly uncertain security environment where both sides, the Iranians and the Israelis, look at it from an existential point of view, I'm not sure how much American influence can really have a drastic effect. role in de-escalation here, of course, let's not compare what is happening in Gaza, where I feel we could have a little more influence, with what is happening in the war dynamic between Iran and Israel, which is much more dangerous, obviously, in the latter.

I think our ability to influence the course of events is much more limited than what is happening in Gaza, but even then Aon will tell you that we are still struggling enormously. We really appreciate your insights at this critical time as we continue to stay in the Middle East, thank you very much Bal Sab and Aaron David Miller really appreciate it and as Trump is put on trial we have the latest developments in the legal debate about what it might look like a possible cross-examination of Trump, in addition to speaker Mike Johnson. a legislative victory and at least one more enemy in the process we will explain and have the latest on the threat to his work as it gains momentum in the chamber.

Straight up, you're looking at me, the press now welcomes you, it's been another dramatic day in New York City Court, where a full jury is now seated in Donald Trump's hush money trial after they were selected remaining alternate jurors today, the judge just held what's known as a sandbox hearing to discuss the scope of questions Trump could face if he decides to take the stand, that's important if he says he'll rule on the matter on Monday, meanwhile, there were some truly terrifying moments outside the courthouse today, shortly after the full jury was seated, when a man set himself on fire in a designated spot.

In the protest area the fire has now been extinguished and police say the man was taken to the hospital where he is in critical condition. Police say the man had engaged in conspiracy theories. NBC News national correspondent Yasmin Juan witnessed that ordeal. Joining me now from outside the courthouse in Manhattan is also with me Dan Horwitz, former assistant district attorney in the Manhattan district attorney's office, Yasmin, let me start with you. I'm so sorry you had such a traumatic day. What can you tell us about what you witnessed outside the courthouse? shocking to say the least um Kristen we are learning something about um about this individual who set himself on fire just a couple feet from where I am standing now um he was a young man um he was in his 30s lived in Florida came here in the last few days They believe that between April 13th um and now when he entered the square he had a backpack, he left his backpack on the ground um he took out some papers from his backpack he threw them into the air and then he wet himself with some type of flammable liquid and then he used a lighter to set yourself on fire.

He was live on air on um msnb. Look when it happened on Flames. Kristen was 20 or 25 feet in the air. I'm telling you while I'm 50 feet away. Where I was, I couldn't tell if it was a human being and/or it was a fire that had started in the area cordoned off for the protesters and then I saw the silhouette of a human body and I realized that it was a human being that had in fact caught fire, a couple of minutes passed before law enforcement security personnel could reach him and help put out the fire.

The paramedics arrived. He has now been taken to a local area hospital and he is in critical condition. The condition, um, in those papers that he threw up in the air, Kristen, were wide-ranging conspiracy theories, it doesn't necessarily seem certain if that was part of the motivation for why he did what he did today, but it was a really tragic moment, incredible, really shocking. A day that makes history here in downtown Manhattan. It's just devastating to hear you tell what happened. I want to ask you about what happened inside the courtroom. Yasmin, before turning to Dan, chose the 12 jurors.

It was a challenging process, but wasn't it? Can you tell us about the jurors who are these people who will decide the status of Donald Trump? I'm hearing it was a challenging process. I heard a lot of excitement inside the court today, especially from the people who were in the Overflow room, many of our journalists who are in the Overflow room telling us and some of what we're seeing in our Google document that many of us are looking at to see what happens inside that courtroom is the excitement of potential jurors, many times people who had a moment to think about the gravity of this trial, maybe overnight we were sworn in yesterday.

I came back this morning and thought. I am afraid that my identity will be revealed. I have anxiety about the possibility of serving on a jury like this and not wanting to do it took me a while. get to where we are, but we had a full jury panel from Christen and we just heard from Judge Juan Maran that, in fact, the opening remarks will begin on Monday morning, it will be a great day for all of us to be listening to those um opening remarks and we also got a glimpse Christen how the case will be viewed by people.

Let me read you a quote from one of the town's attorneys who says that there is a particular need for the town to present evidence to evaluate the case. the credibility of the accused and they intend to make the credibility of the witnesses the centerpiece of the trial and that is an argument for allowing the evidence that comes out during the hearing and that exposes some of the evidence that they will present if in fact , Donald Trump decides to testify when it comes to that pool of jurors, Christan, we're looking at 12 jurors on the actual jury, seven men, five women, six alternates, five women, one man too, let me quickly, Kristen, explain to you how make up these. jurors, if I may, we have a sales worker, an investment banker, a corporate law attorney, a security engineer, a teacher, a civil litigator, a retired wealth manager, a speech therapist, a product development manager who He is right among those 12 people who will serve on that jury and then among our alternates.

We also have a diversity of people, from an asset manager to an audio professional to a contract specialist, so there are certainly people who will be in that test for the next six weeks or so, really the weight that the world seems to have in this moment. moments on their shoulders as they understand or come to Deal with the gravity of what awaits them and they will be part of History. Yasmin tremendous breakdown Dan, let me turn to you, can you pick up on something that Yasmin talked about, which is the Raw emotion that some of these potential jurors had one apparently breaking down in tears talking about the anxiety just saying that they couldn't move forward with their participation in the jury.

How extraordinary it is to find 12 people who meet the requirements to be part of the jury. jury and there could be an ongoing challenge, so I think to start jury duty, people get a jury summons and they say, God, I don't really want to do jury duty and I really have to do it, but what happens in My experience is that people take jury service very seriously when they are in that room and they walk into that jury box and they are selected, they take their job very seriously, especially in a criminal case, leaving aside the fact that that you have an ex The president as a defendant here people understand that he has a determination that is central to someone's life, if he is going to be convicted, if he is going to go to jail, and they take it very seriously if it is Donald Trump the defendant or someone who is accused of a murder or if it is an organized crime case and therefore the additional pressure that a jury will face in a high profile case like this is very challenging and that is why the judge wisely said about a large number of alternates because It is very possible that, as the trial progresses, it will be necessary to change jurors who cannot serve, who cannot, who cannot move forward for whatever reason, so this is unusual in that sense on the other hand.

On the other hand, in New York we are used to high-profile cases with high-profile people, whether it's Donald Trump, whether it's John Gotti, whether it's Harvey Weinstein, etc., so you know the history here of the courts and the juries. with high profile, high pressure cases that are criminal, civil and otherwise well, it's a very important point, what are you going to be on the lookout for next week? Yasmin talked about the fact that it's now confirmed that opening arguments will begin on Monday, well, I think the openings are going to be fascinating because I think we all know how the process is going to frame their case.

It is a case of electoral interference. It has the attractive aspects of porn stars and bribes, but it also has a cast of characters from the editor of the national Inquirer to Michael Cohen to the White House with hope, so you have a good cast of characters and a narrative there. I'm really interested in knowing who the defense attorneys are. I will say now that you are not required to give an opening statement under our law. The defendant does not have the burden of proof and is not required to give an opening statement. He is not required to present any EV, any proof, but there is no doubt about it.They are going to give an opening statement and the real trick is how quickly they will focus on Michael Cohen and make the opening statements an opening statement that is both a defense to the criminal case and a political statement if they veer towards politics, um, what will the judge do?

But I think what you're going to see from Donald Trump's lawyers is immediate: They're going to write about what they perceive to be the biggest vulnerability in the district attorney's case, which is Michael Cohen. I think that's that's what I'm going to be looking for, well I can tell you that sources within Trump's orbit certainly spend a lot of time raising questions about him as a witness, so we'll all be keeping an eye on that, we know there's going to be There will be a hearing next week on possible violations of the gag order. Do you have any indication how Judge Meron might rule in that regard?

No, but I think historically he knows whether it's Judge Maran or other judges who proceed cautiously with contempt issues. Now there is no question, he has been very clear in his orders about what he expects from the accused Donald Trump and the district attorney's office has been very clear that Donald Trump has repeatedly crossed the line. What does that mean? Out of the ordinary, Judge Mara will find Donald Trump in contempt. and give him a sanction such as a fine. I would say the likelihood of that is not very likely. I think you start with a stern warning, um, with questions, why shouldn't I hold you in contempt and have the president do the ex-?

The president feels the pressure that if he missteps again, M will not hesitate to impose a financial penalty just as the judge did in the civil fraud trial. Now there's another interesting topic here that you talked about in your opening here and that's this one. The so-called sandal hearing is now one of the things the prosecutor wants to try to question Donald Trump about are the cases in which he violated the judge's provisions or ERS on court personnel, etc. To the extent that Donald Trump commits or violates the gag order or engages in disruptive conduct that the judge considers derogatory, will the prosecutor not only be allowed to be penalized but will prosecutors be allowed to question Donald Trump if he testifies? about the contempt in which he is involved during the course of the trial.

Well, we'll stay in close contact with you because this Dan Horwitz trial is just beginning. We really appreciate his excellent ideas. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to see you. Thank you for inviting me to be next. We're live on Capitol Hill, where a bipartisan vote on foreign aid has fueled more far-right discontent with President Johnson escalating threats to try to oust him from office. You're watching Meet the Press now. stay with us, welcome back to a very busy day on Capitol Hill, the House foreign aid package took another step toward President Biden's desk and President Johnson's control over his Republican conference and the president's gavel has never been more tenuous thanks to the rare strength of Democratic votes.

The House today moved into advanced debate on the Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan and Aid bills. In fact, more Democrats backed the measure than Republicans. President Johnson talked about his strategy after the vote, although it is not perfect legislation, it is not the legislation we would have. write if the Republicans were in charge of both the House, the Senate and the White House, this is the best possible product that we can get under these circumstances, to take care of these really important obligations, so we look forward to the vote of tomorrow. We look forward to every member voting according to his conscience and his desire, and that is exactly how this process is supposed to work and how the House is now supposed to do it.

As a result, the group of Republicans seeking to unseat the president grew to three today with Paul from Arizona. Goar joins Marger Taylor Green's effort to activate a motion to vacate the seat for Johnson to save his job. Democratic support may be needed to rescue him. Joining me now from Capitol Hill is NBC's Ryan Nobles. He has been in this whole story. Let's start with that piece. of that, Ryan, to what extent Jeopardy is the speaker, I think he's in quite a bit of danger, uh, Kristen, and I think the path forward for him is bleak under any circumstances, uh, you know, the problem for Speaker Johnson Not that the vast majority. of his conference support him and that is an absolute truth, you know, 220 maybe 29 House Republicans support the president, but it only takes a handful of them to vote him out of office and that is what complicates the situation for him because if this motion for override becomes a privileged motion, that means they actually have to vote on it.

There are likely enough Republicans to oust him if all the Democrats join them, so he will have to need a handful of Democrats who cross party lines to vote. put forward the motion or the direct vote to keep him in the presidency and that is a difficult proposition for him in the future because he essentially becomes the leader of a coalition government at that time and that is not something that inspires confidence among Republicans of base, particularly conservatives. Republicans, so President Johnson is in a difficult position here, but it's also important to say Kristen when we talk about this and we talk about the decision that he made, he made the decision to govern, he made a principled decision and he made it clear that he is prepared to deal with those consequences, whatever they may be, although at this moment it does not seem like a very positive outcome for President Johnson, he seems comfortable with the path he has chosen, yes, he says, even if it costs him his job they should get him Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan are approved.

Let's talk about Democrats, how do you see this? Because the difference that seems to me between President Mike Johnson and former President Kevin McCarthy is that Mike Johnson crossed the aisle and formed relationships with some Democrats who may actually be willing to bail him out now. Optics, practicality, as you say, becomes very complicated if he leads a coalition government, but is there a chance that the Democrats will bail him out? I think he is absolutely right. about Kristen's personalities especially matter in the halls of Congress and the one thing about Mike Johnson is that he doesn't have personal enemies, he may have political enemies, people who don't necessarily agree with him on politics, but as a human being, most people tend to like him and that at least opens the door to conversation for a handful of Democrats to say that they would be willing to risk political capital to save him, but I also think it's very important for us to stay in the back in our minds that that's no guarantee, you know, the Democrats would be risking a lot by allowing a Republican president to continue in office.

Yes, they are very happy with him because he was willing to bring this care package to the room. But there are a lot of issues that will be before Congress after we pass this foreign aid package. There's the whole issue of financing the government. In the fall, the farm bill, the reauthorization of the FAA and then don't forget there is the certification of an election in 2024, Mike Johnson would preside over all of that if the Democrats allow him to continue holding the gavel, so I think this is not It's a guarantee, okay, Ryan Nobl, thanks for your fantastic reporting and analysis, you and me.

Have a busy weekend ahead, friend, and thanks for more on the latest on Capitol Hill. I'm joined now by New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. Congressman Lawler, thank you very much for joining me. I really appreciate it, thank you Kristen. I want to answer. where I just finished with Ryan Paul gosar became the third House Republican to call for the election of President Johnson today as of now, as you and I have this conversation, do you think President Johnson is in danger of lose his job? Look, this is a decision. For the entire House we saw what happened in October when eight Republicans joined with 208 Democrats to impeach Chairman McCarthy and throw the House into three and a half weeks of chaos at a time when Israel was under attack, I think this is a decision that everyone in the chamber must take very seriously and put aside partisan political gain and look at what is happening.

President Johnson is making a decision, the right decision to present aid to our allies at a time when they are under attack from our adversaries China, Russia and Iran are a serious threat to the free world and he is doing the right thing by showing American resolve and leadership at this moment and I think it is up to the institution, Republicans and Democrats, to analyze it. for what it is and say that we are not going to participate in throwing our government into chaos. Democrats talk a lot about preserving democracy, this is a time for them to show that they take this seriously and not join the effort with some people on the right to change our government, so let me be very clear with you.

I mean, if it takes Democrats to save President Johnson to save his presidency, are you comfortable with that, would you welcome the Democrats bailing him out? It is not a function of the Democrats. rescuing it is a function of all of us doing the right thing by the American people. This is a very serious moment in our history. Frankly, we're in the most precarious time since World War II and I think we're obviously very divided. country we in a divided government the republicans control the house the democrats control the senate and the white house we need to find compromises and ways to work together that is the only way for major bills to become law and it would take all democrats to be agree to be clear about this, they would have to proactively agree with Paul Goar, Marjorie Taylor Green and Thomas Massie to remove Speaker Johnson, so that is a choice they would make proactively.

What I suggest is that they should make it clear that they are not going. To be a part of this, we saw what happened in October when 208 Democrats teamed up with Matt Gates. It was destructive, it didn't result in the Democrats taking control of the House, uh, and this won't result in the Democrats taking control of the House, but what it will do is cause chaos and that's something that We should all say we're not going to be a part of it, and to be very clear, of course, President McCarthy's intervention was an effort led by his fellow Republicans.

I want to reproduce some of what his colleagues said today about the speaker. Get the reaction from him on the other side. Listen. I definitely feel like there's a bitter um, you know, in the Republican leadership and not just in the Freedom House, um, with other people like Well, you know, I think the speaker should take that seriously. Well, there is continued frustration with the fact that we are allowing the U to, frankly, allow the chamber to be governed by Democrats. That frustration continues when you listen to that congressman and this. Going back to my first question, when you hear your fellow Republicans express their frustration with the speaker, do you think he could lose his job?

Look, obviously, there's a chance that you have three people who have said they are prepared to move forward with a motion to vacate. but the funny thing about my colleagues' comments is that the reason the speaker's hand was weakened in the negotiations, including the negotiation of border provisions, is because of his conduct throughout this Congress, his inability to work as a team and pass a rule. uh, you know, chip Roy is on the rules committee and he voted against the rule in the committee he voted against the rule in the room Eli crane voted to overthrow President McCarthy so that they blame President Johnson or the Republicans inside from the conference that they want to govern uh it's comical the reality is this if they wanted border security which I do uh I voted for hr2 I voted for a CR with hr2 I introduced border defense defending democracies that would recreate title 42 and remain in Mexico while providing aid lethal uh to Our allies none of them co-sponsored it.

They have done everything they can to undermine our ability to negotiate from a position of strength and that is why there is no border security in this package, but we are in a situation where the United States must lead. We have an obligation as leader of the Free World and if we have our responsibility to do so, there will be a new world order with China, Russia and Iran at the helm and that will not be good for anyone, least of all the United States of America. United States, well, Congressman, let me continue with you on that same point, of course, the foreign aid package will be voted on tomorrow, it seems likely, and that's like you just said because the Democrats supported the ability for that moving forward, some of your Republican colleagues, your colleague Bob Good says there is currently a coalition government in the House, what is your reaction tothat?

And if Democratic votes are needed to pass aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, are you comfortable with that yes? Look, apparently we're in divided government. Some of my colleagues have never been married before, you have to be willing to compromise, uh, and the reality is that the Democrats control the Senate and the White House, we control the House, there will be a negotiation, what the president has allowed is to go up or down. On each of the individual aid packages, some of my Republican colleagues are going to vote no on Ukraine. I suspect there will be a lot of Democrats voting no on Israel, uh, and then everyone will be able to express their opinion, uh, and that's what democracy is. what our constitutional republic allows we are here to govern to negotiate it is not easy we do not live in a dictatorship uh but I am proud of the fact that, for example, two of my bills, the Ship Law and the energy sanctions law between Iran and China are part of this package targeting Iranian oil $88 billion in increased oil sales since Joe Biden took office that money is being used to finance Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and terrorist attacks against Israel this is the type of work we must do requires bipartisanship and the willingness to compromise and Congressman La very quickly because we ran out of time.

Are you worried that if there is a fight for the presidency it will send a message to voters that Republicans can't govern? Look, I think it obviously undermines our ability. to get the job done here, huh, but the problems are what they are. People are concerned about affordability. They are worried about the border. They are worried about crime. I'm not worried about the impact on elections because the reality is that voters will do it. I have different options in each of these districts. I know that in my district I'm running against Mandere Jones, a radical progressive who believes in open borders, who called ice agents racist, and who wants to defund the police, so I'm not worried about the consequences.

This is more about our government and the American people, all of us, Republicans and Democrats, have an obligation to govern, let's pass the relief package tomorrow, let's not allow chaos and dysfunction to reign in the House of Representatives. Republicans and Democrats must work together to put an end to this, okay, Congressman Lawler, thank you very much for your time, I really appreciate it, thank you and we will have much more. Meet the press now after a short break, stay with us, welcome back as we mention the effort to impeach President Mike. Johnson is gaining strength, but Speaker Johnson remains defiant in the face of the threat.

Are you worried about your job? No, no, I don't worry, I just do my job. Is it time to call MTG's Bluff and just make the motion to make it look like we're on the floor? I'll see what happens. I'll do my job. I am not deterred by threats, meanwhile some hardline Republicans support the speaker not because they support his actions but because they are worried about chaos breaking out inside the house heading into November. Listen, I don't. I am not defending the speaker's actions. I take no offense to the actions that have been taken, even today.

I think this is a terrible mistake, however, that doesn't mean I support what I would consider not the most prudent course of action at this time. We're six months away from the election, we have a margin of two or three votes, there's a much greater degree of uncertainty in that situation than there was, you know, in September, and I'm joined now by Simone Sanders Townson, former adviser principal of the vice president. Harris and weekend co-anchor on MSNBC and Lance Trover, Republican strategist and former spokesman for Doug Bam's presidential campaign, thank you both for being here on a very busy Friday.

Lance, let's start with you and what's happening here on Capital Hill. We are again with a Speaker of the House of Representatives who is about to work across the aisle so that, in this case, aid to Ukraine trumps aid to Israel and aid to Taiwan. What is the reality of him when he reads The Tea Leaves from what we hear from his fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill, do you think his job is in serious danger? Well, I mean, obviously, when because of the low threshold with the motion to overrule now, yeah, I mean, obviously, it's in jeopardy, but I find it interesting with it and I think the kind of how we got here just last week I want to.

I mean, I think this is a speaker who has evolved on the issue of financing Ukraine, but he knew he needed backing and so what did he do last week? He went to Maral Lago and got the support of President Trump. backing up to say hey I have the support I need he comes out on Monday and says this is the path it's pretty much where we are today where we started earlier this week and I also thought it was interesting yesterday with President Trump's post on The Social Truth where he said you know the survival of Ukraine is important to the US it was a small change what he said yesterday and what he didn't say was that he was against the vote that will take place tomorrow.

I think that gave the speaker a little more runway that he needed to take off this plane and some cover for the Republicans who are going to vote Yes tomorrow, I think you're absolutely right and Simone, it's very interesting because Trump had torpedoed the process. and then he finally reached out and said, well, I can back it up if it's in the form of a loan, now part of this is in the form of an individual loan. The question is: would Democrats agree? President Biden says yes, he'll just bring the aid to Ukraine. and we will support it.

Do you expect that in this case the Democrats will help pass this tomorrow, but bail them out if necessary? Well, when it comes to legislation, as Democratic Leader Jeffrey said today, his focus is on getting these bills passed. and so the Democrats are going to do whatever it takes to work with the Republicans to do their job, frankly. Now I'll point out that we always talk about foreign aid and people forget that most of the aid goes to American companies and aid actually goes. to the Pentagon and then the Pentagon takes that money and buys weapons that are made in America and places like Kentucky Ohio Arizona uh Georgia, okay, that's where most of the money goes when it comes to saving Mike Johnson.

I think it really depends. about what Mike Johnson does over the weekend, I remember President McCarthy and the Democrats, they weren't going to ruin the situation with President McCarthy, they said, look, he didn't do anything to us per se. we're good and then he went on the Sunday show the Sunday before and said that the Democrats were a threat to Ry and that the Democrats were like good luck good luck no it's a good recreation of how it happened because basically Simone hits the nail on the head . off the top of my head that there are some key differences between President Johnson and former President McCarthy and how they're going to build these relationships with Democrats and the kind of practicality of needing to work well with them.

I'm not going to get into the debate. between McCarthy and I I don't know well, yes, because I would just know that Mike Johnson was actively involved in the Insurrection and Donald Trump and the voting situation, while President McCarthy was not his Jam for lack of a better term, so I don't think anyone really wants to relive what we did last fall without any speakers, particularly on the Republican side, but even I think a lot of Democrats don't want to go through this. It's not good for Congress. Not good as a whole. It looks bad on everyone, so I really don't think, with the exception of these few individuals, I don't think anyone really wants to go through that.

Well, we're talking about how Trump looms over this Simone we're talking about. some new polls he's been in court this week which I found fascinating his campaign said he'll split time between the Trail campaign and the Court he was actually in court this week now we have a new poll from Battleground that shows how close this one is race is in many different places tied in Wisconsin tied in Pennsylvania Trump wins three in Michigan has a more sizable lead when it comes to Georgia what do you think about the fact that the polls are getting tighter?

That's what Democrats have been saying is going to happen. This could happen, but is it still good enough? Look I think people forget that the last election was very close, we were in the middle of a pandemic and everyone was at home and it was a close election, this election is going to be even closer so I think I hope this happens I think that we should expect even more tightening and the polls to waver between now and early September and what you saw in I think the president today went to talk to the ibw union workers um, right, he feels at home there, I think We'll see him doing more of that type of thing and a lot of the polls that are coming out yes, there's abortion, there's Donald Trump on the court, but there's still something underlying about how people feel about their financial situation about the economy and so That's because you heard the president.

I think he talks a little bit more about housing. You know that's forward looking and it's like I get it and this is what we're going to do if you give me another chance. Well, that's a great point and Lance. I mean, President Biden was in Pennsylvania three different stops just this week talking about the economy and again Trump was in court, a lot of people were waiting for him to cut through the line to get on his plane and hit the campaign trail at night. . How far these trials are actually becoming an X Factor won't happen.

Well, if I'm the Trump campaign, I actually don't hate this poll at all. He is leading the Andor tide in states where he last lost the underlying fundamentals of the economy and immigration. is still doing very well for him and that poll was conducted from April 11 to 16, where all the coverage from the end of last week to the beginning of this week was about the trial, so again, if I'm them, I'm not discontent. With those numbers, can't I? I think we haven't seen Donald Trump do these big rallies after leaving court because rallies cost money. I remember when I was on the Biden campaign and he was doing these VP presidential level rallies this 15th. at $20,000 just per rally Donald Trump doesn't have that kind of cash, well we'll see how it all plays out and of course the Opening statements will begin in Trump's trial on Monday, so we'll see how it all plays out.

Great conversation Happ happy Friday Simone and Lance, thank you very much. It's great to have them here. We'll be back on Monday with more Meet the Press now and if it's Sunday it will be Meet the Press on your local NBC news station. I will have an exclusive interview with the Ukrainian president. Vladimir zalinski plus my meeting with Goodwin from Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Doris karn don't miss it more new poll numbers with Steve Kaki the news continues with Tom Costello replacing H Jackson right now thanks for watching stay up to date on the latest news and top stories from the NBC News App or follow us on social media