Israel must invade Rafah to destroy Hamas | John Bolton

This is all a total joke, number one, there is no State of Palestine, there is nothing that has defined borders, a defined population, a government that carries out the normal functions of government, the predecessor of the Palestinian Authority, the Organization of Palestine Liberation, this farce began. In 1989, when they tried to join the World Health Organization, they were defeated in that vote because the United States basically said that under the George HW Bush administration, if the UN considers Palestine, quote, unquote, a state, the United States will cut off all contributions to that organization, so If this vote goes ahead, there will be no American funding for the UN and I hope people keep that in mind, but you know, the Charter, let me end here, the United Nations charter says that the general assembly should consider recommendations for membership of the Security Council.

The Council, the PLO, the Palestinian Authority, call it what you want, is trying to hinder the Security Council here. I have no doubt that even the Biden Administration will veto this, this is damaging, whatever efforts are still underway to try to return peace to the region. It is pure UN policy, it is a joke, you have made it very clear, but, even so, if there is still a commitment, and there is on the part of many countries, with a two-state solution, surely the Palestinian state is a precursor to that, and you know David Cameron, our The UK Foreign Secretary himself has talked about the UK's recognition of a Palestinian state at the United Nations, so you know what the borders of the Palestinian state are.

What are the borders? No, I understand there are many obstacles to overcome, but I'm talking about you. You talk about it as a joke, but the two-state solution is still the only game available at some point in the future. Well, I don't think so, but let's even assume it's the only game available. don't win statehood uh in the Carters of the United Nations it is the Palestinian state, if it is ever going to exist it has to be through negotiation with Israel and the other partners involved like Egypt like Jordan this as I say this this is nonsense that goes back almost 35 years to try to create facts at the UN when the facts on the ground do not exist it seems as if you have completely lost patience with the UN's gaze I I I I was in Geneva in the spring of 1989 when the PLO tried this trick the first time and I'm happy to say that the United States led the charge to defeat it.

They've done it again now that they have a very weak administration in Joe Biden, you might think you can overlook this, but I'm telling you. There is already outrage on the Republican side in the House and Senate. You haven't seen the end of the consequences of this yet. You know people want to play in the UN. You wonder why the American population as a whole is skeptical. from the UN, right here you are looking at a case study on why it's okay, you're talking about games, you're talking about a joke, but the supporters of this proposal say that this is simply some kind of act of solidarity for an oppressed people.

You say I couldn't care less about an act of solidarity with any people when you are simply violating the fundamental precepts of the UN Charter that they are supposed to revere the only qualifications for membership in the UN? Do you have to be a peace-loving state? There is no State and they are not lovers of peace. What else could go wrong? Well, speaking of peace, what is your assessment of our position on the ceasefire? And, uh, the United States clearly under Joe Biden is losing patience with Israel now. I hope Israel goes ahead and attacks Rafa.

I believe their only recourse is to crush Hamas to eliminate its political and military capabilities. I think, in fact, they have waited too long and I think now is the time to act as the Israeli army. has ordered the evacuation of tens of thousands more Palestinians from Rafa in the southern Gaza Strip, residents of the city's eastern districts were told to go to Alasi, a narrow coastal area that Israel has declared a humanitarian aid, now the Israeli military says around 300,000 Palestinians have moved there since they started telling people to leave Rafa on Friday. The UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to support the Palestinian bid for full UN membership by recognizing it as qualified to join the Israeli representative.

He accused the diplomats of hating Jee well. Let's discuss this with Jonathan Conus, former spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces. Jonathan. Good afternoon. Welcome to the program. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for inviting me. Good afternoon. Rafa's full-scale invasion has not yet been launched, but people. They are really worried about the situation they are seeing, it is a terrible situation, there are very few Rafa roots, where do you think the Palestinian people should go in this situation? Yeah, you know, speaking of people, I'll definitely deal with it. situation for the Palestinians, actually, the people I would like to start talking about are the Israeli people who for the last seven months have been forced from their homes in the Gaza Strip, have been killed or kidnapped by Hamas and still is waiting for the return of security so that they can return to their homes and I mean the Israelis, not the Palestinians, and I know that much of the world's attention is focused on the plight of the Palestinians, many of whom, for True, they supported Hamas in its atrocities last October.

The seventh has now said that what Israel is doing now is continuing what it said from day one that it would do and that is to go in and dismantle every single part of the Hamas infrastructure to make sure that Hamas will never again be able to launch an attack like the one on October 7 against Israel and what we are seeing now is a progress, we are not seeing an all-out attack, but this is still, I would say, local and it is a gradual response or a gradual approach. We are not seeing that the main areas of Rafa City have been asked to evacuate yet, but what we are seeing is that there are more neighborhoods where the IDF is telling civilians to please evacuate if they want to guarantee their safety and that of others. their families, so we urge them to evacuate.

That will greatly increase your chances of living and if you stay, Hamas is using you as human shields. There is a lot of concern now about the situation and I think you know that many people, particularly here, absolutely agree with you, the hostages should be released. but at the same time there is also real dismay over this operation in Rafa. President Biden has warned against this operation, saying he would cross a red line this morning. I was at an event with the shadow foreign secretary, he repeated a similar warning. Do you think Israel's war cabinet is listening to these international voices calling for some caution and restraint?

In fact, I think that is the case and I think the only reason we are not after an RAF battle is because the Israeli cabinet, the Prime Minister and others, have been listening, but I think that all that listening has basically achieved is that Israel delays its agenda and prolongs the suffering of Israelis and Palestinians, in my opinion, according to the military logic that I understand, the sooner the better. The sooner Israel defeats Hamas and drives Hamas out of Gaza, the sooner the reconstruction of Gaza can begin, the sooner Israeli civilians can return to their homes and rebuild their lives that were so brutally shattered on October 7, and I think I know that I think the concerns for the Palestinians and their security are valid and I think they are understandable and I think Israel should and is taking into account the security of Palestinian civilians, which is why there is a humanitarian zone, by the way, it is the same area and the same area that Israel asked Palestinians in the northern part of Gaza to go to in the initial stages of the war.

Israel has not been successful. I

must

admit that Israel has not been successful in communicating its humanitarian efforts, but I believe on the ground that Israel has been going above and beyond to minimize the effect on non-combatants. I know that's not the picture the media shows, but I can tell you that in terms of if you compare what the IDF has done to all other armies fighting similar battles, the IDF has injured fewer civilians and inflicted less damage than any another army that has fought in Modern Warfare in such dense and populated terrain. Okay, well, look, many people will have a different view of that and, as I say, there are many but you and I have obviously made your point very clearly.

You know a lot of people will have a different view and of course there are a lot of high level global figures who are very concerned about this right now and what your opinion is. The United Nations voted to improve the rights of Palestinians within the organization and wants to embark on this path to give Palestinians full membership. Yes, without being too negative, I would say that you know I would like the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians to be resolved peacefully and I would like my children and their grandchildren to live in peace with our neighbors point H when I look at the representatives of The Palestinians who were present at the UN General Assembly is a little confusing because the guy sitting there represents the PA, the Palestinian Authority, they are not the representatives of the Palestinian people, the representatives of the Palestinians if the elections were held today and , notice, and to all the listeners, there have been no elections in the PA for the last 19 years and There have been no elections in Hamas-controlled Gaza for the last 17 years, if not longer, and also many people won elections in Israel now too Yes, that's a little different, we actually have too many elections, not too few, but as to who represents the Palestinians, which I think is very sad and the reason why this vote is such an ill-conceived event. and it is inappropriate because those who will really represent the Palestinians are Hamas and Hamas is an organization that has a very clear idea.

They formulated the Charter they want to

destroy

Israel and kill the Jews in Israel and build a Sharia-based state in the wake of Israel. I know your listeners are not aware of this and it is a real inconvenience for Israelis to keep complaining about this. We are very aware of this and we emphasize and I emphasize many times that Hamas wants to eradicate Israel to be under new illusions. We do not sugarcoat that in any way I know that you, us and our. The listeners are very intelligent and very intelligent people who know the situation very well.

No doubt. No doubt. But what I'm saying is this is this. If everyone knew it, why so many countries? I think the UK. abstained I think what it is and we will have to end this. I think people can have two things in mind with Integrity: they can absolutely see what happened on October 7 and feel disgusted by what Hamas did and they also look at what is happening there and their anxieties about what is happening in Gazell Jonathan, we'll have to leave it there, but thank you very much for your time, that's Jonathan Conus, former Israeli defense spokesman, uh, now we've been talking about the Administration and The Biden Administration is questioning the way Israel has been using weaponry American during the last seven months in the Gaza conflict and now a White House report says it is reasonable to assess that it has been used in violation of international humanitarian law in In some cases, this is now the first time that the US government.

The US has raised serious concerns about the way Israel has used American-supplied bombs and munitions. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netan has dismissed this US warning saying that they have enough weaponry for a full-blown attack on the RAF and we are just there. I'm hearing some details about that. Well, I'm joined now by Aaron David Miller Senior Fellow at the Carnegi Endowment for International Peace and former US Middle East negotiator. um Aaron, welcome to the show. Thank you for inviting me. What was your reaction to this report? who just arrived from the White House. None of that surprised me.

I think it's a serious effort to navigate a line that's probably impossible to navigate and I think the bottom line is, and I've felt this all along since the NSM's National Security Memorandum 20 was conceived in February, largely in response to Democratic pressure from Congress Chris, Senator Chris Van Holland, a very serious and credible guy who is increasingly concerned about the exponential increase in Palestinian deaths and the humanitarian catastrophe that is occurring and intensifying in Gaza, that the report It would turn out more or less as it did. Without administration, I would say Republican or Democrat. I worked for everyone from Ronald Reagan to Bush 43.

I probably would have wanted to conclude that the assurances Israel gave him on two issues, one to facilitate or obstruct humanitarian assistance in Aaza and another to use US military equipment in a manner consistent with international humanitarian law, no administration would have spoken out. uh lowthese circumstances, uh, those assurances of not being reliable or credible that said the report is sometimes at war with itself, as one journalist observed, uh, clearly has been based on the absence of what it considers confirmatory information, the degree in that heras incorporates its military assets around civilian structures and some process of I guess you would call it remediation by the Israelis to take and improve their targeting procedures, basically to produce a report that is extremely critical of Israel, but as in a court, there is no, there really isn't what would be the Lawyers call it a final statement, their summary, yes, with respect to the outcome that I think a lot of people wanted, which was the Israelis.

The assurances are neither credible nor reliable and as you can see the report slightly pits you in two directions. because it says that you know they are concerned about what is there, it is reasonable to evaluate that international human law has been violated in some cases, it does not go so far as to say that the United States should not be given weapons. to Israel, which of course is a very hot political topic. I mean, what do you think this means for the relationship between Joe Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu now and what is Joe Biden trying to accomplish right now?

Is he trying to be nice? of all things to all people in this situation, I mean, I think it's a very astute judgment call, uh, and when you try to become all things to all people, you end up with some expression. I'm sure maybe the British made it up that you ended up. Basically, making everyone end up pleasing no one, there you have it and I think that's part of the problem not only with the report but with the administration's decision, which I think was a direct response to extreme frustration on the part of the president personally. stop a munitions ship even as the administration proceeds with the $14 billion, uh, part of the National Security Supplement, part of the Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, Aid package without restrictions, without conditions, and that's another $780 million that They are in the process, no restrictions, no conditions, so I think when you do these things issue this report, you are going to make it a Democrat, the report has made Democrats very dissatisfied, many Democrats and has provided fodder for many Republicans, as was the president's decision to suspend a shipment of high-value munitions, 2,500-pound bombs. about 5,000 of those have made Democrats want more.

Bernie Sanders said it's a good step. Senator Bernie Sanders, but we need to see more and it has caused Republicans to accuse the administration of betrayal and, by the way, it has also caused dismay. The Israelis and I, I'm sorry to say, have probably sent a signal to Hamas that they are winning, that the longer this goes on, the more they will be able to exchange hostages from the tunnels and, over time, the pressure from the international community will continue to increase. from the Israeli body politic of the Biden administration and almost everyone else, okay, about Israel, we'll have to get out of there, but you are absolutely fascinating to talk to.

Thank you very much for your time. I'm Aaron David Miller, former Middle East negotiator.