SAMMY GRAVANO INTERVIEW

I'm a double master Crosser now he walks free among us even though he wants a killer when you look at a total of 19 you know serial killers aren't 19 tonight Sammy the Bull Grain, the greatest mobster who ever lived, emerges for his first television

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is as far as a hitman was actually good at it, how can you not describe this man as a monster or a beast? the family that his brutal beatings left behind is making trash everywhere, it's time to continue with daily life a brotherhood of gangsters said to themselves what do these people do while we are at the table cutting the money and the godfather John Gotti described by his right hand I think his problem was that he fell in love himself before he lost sight of himself again is this every day of your life thinking where you will go where you will be who will know what who will be there Sammy the bull who changed sides and changed history we play chess and he lost tonight Sammy the B the man who took down John Gotti good night I'm Diane Sawyer tonight the mafia is not a movie the real thing the underboss the second in command of the most powerful mafia family in America not long ago 5 years ago the government dealt a severe blow to most major cities in America, here in New York, it was said that it was difficult to do business, transport something, build a building without the mafia taking a piece of the action . against organized crime thanks in part to Sammy, the Bull Ganoo family and their boss John Gotti.

We should note that we do not know where Gravano lives. We agreed to meet him at an inn in a remote California valley, but as you'll see surprisingly, he is. not in disguise he says he's wise but he's not the type of person to live in fear we don't know what you're going to think of him tonight all we know is you've never heard a true story like this he's the government's prize witness salvator Gravano Sammy the bull for years has been living in the shadows protected by the US government from a long list of sworn enemies can you relate me to a soldier in Vietnam Nam who killed hundreds of people maybe I was a gostra soldier I'm a Hitman a Hitman the underboss emerges for his first and says he only has one

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before retiring into the shadows forever he agreed to talk on the condition that we provide him with former FBI agents for his protection and not broadcast until he was out safe and sound from the site.

Here I am, the mafia, they said that you are the most important witness who has ever testified against the mafia. I think I am, so there's a word you use for people who turn right, mhm, who cooperate with what you're trying to do. to get into the word it's brat is that the word you like that's the word so you're a rat I look at him like I'm betrayed I betrayed him betrayed Master double cross John is a double cross I'm a master double cross we played chess and lost hey John, you have to beat him John Gotti head of the Gambino family the most powerful crime family in the country the most glamorous mobster since Al Capone silver hair expensive clothes and All American Gangster showing a smile while violating the power of the law he has a way that you can believe that after a while you can walk on water and I think this is what happened to him at one point.

Gotti was such a national celebrity that when he went on trial for multiple murders someone played the theme from The Godfather while his fans cheered and in the old days a man would have been at his side if you look at the videos I'm always a step or two behind of them it's raining I'm holding the umbrella we approach a car I'm Opening the door, they were literally complicit in the crime on the FBI surveillance tapes, Gotti can be heard over the background music in the room, playing Sammy in control, if God arrested him, these are my wishes, if you had a friend, it is Pitbull and his friend, a friend that one day.

I decided to expose what he says is the truth about John Gotti and the murderous mob. The judge would call it an act of bravery. What was the real reason you cooperated? The real reason but was it to save your skin? I was just tired of the mafia and tired of fighting, it was an exit door from the mafia, you know, I saw the David KES incident and I used to say to myself how could they brainwash these people, they're crazy, they're crazy and then I look in a mirror and think. He said I was brainwashed, here I am with orders to kill people left and right and uh, I call them brainwashed, there was a book written, he said that you had the characteristic of committing murder with the indifference of someone who simply opens the tab of a beer can that was everything gradual and everything it meant to you in terms of being a Hitman.

I was actually good at it because you were fast, deadly and loyal. I did not do it. I believed in life when it was in your case. I left everything. look at the list of murders you were involved in there how many 19 serial killers don't have 19 MH we are worse than them but again publish it in the Hollywood newspapers we just committed suicide what are you worried about? bother the public he seems to like us he seems to like what we do look at John Gotti if I'm 19 he's forgotten what he's got when he ordered a hit he wanted done yesterday he'd send me to supervise him or control him or do I'm sure The job was done and I obviously did it.

When you're the boss, you give the orders. They are all credited to you, even if you are not on the street, but in this report you will hear what Gotti's lawyers say. Grano lies that it was Grano who instigated the murders I think he was a sociopath I think he committed murders because if you had something he wanted Sam would kill you so once a murderer always a murderer and they are letting him walk the streets Cindy Deardo's father was murdered by Grano and Dina OS, how can we not describe this man as a monster or a beast?

All these women whose parents were murdered say it is an outrage that Gravano was released after only 5 years in prison and now has her face on the cover of 200,000 books about her life that are published today. Guano maintains that she has the right to know the story of his life and says he's baffled by the way even the New York tabloids turn against you when you join the good guys the media treated me very well before I cooperated I was a hero it seemed that the more people you kill and the more things you do I mean you were a hero John is still a hero and after cooperating, which is strange to me, you will turn into a rat this pigeon a canary, the worst scum on the earth, for them we were anticipating that this individual , Samy Gano, would help us devastate a significant amount of organized crime in New York City and that is the deal you make with FBI Agent George Gabriel, who was there the night Gotti was arrested.

He points out that Gravano helped send more than 30 gangsters to prison after he decided to tell all. Sammy Gravano was someone who was going to open the garage door to the functioning and criminal activity of this family and not just against the people we already had. but everyone else and Gano say that he did tell everything, not only about the gangsters and the murders, but also about all those millions obtained from defrauding the public. I was making a couple million a year. John was making, uh, I'd say between 5 and 20 million. one year we violated the community constantly in every way, shape and form, what did they say to themselves when they do this to other people, what do we say to ourselves, why are we at the table cutting the money that we did?

I'm not saying much, we just cut the money, it was uh, it was out of greed, there is nothing, there is no honor in many things that we do not honor, it is a word that will travel a tangled path in our history, Grain. He still insists that it was a quest for honor that led him to the mafia. First of all, he was 31 years old and had been an associate of the mafia for 8 years when he swore to become a servant in the sacred ceremony to which he once committed himself. keep a secret forever one by one they called us to the basement, a small basement really seemed to be very full I gave lights Real Smokey and when I walked in there was Paul Castellano Paul Castalano head of the Gambino family and he says if we ask would you kill for us, could you ?

I said yes and he asked me which finger would you pull the trigger with and I pointed to my index finger. The words were simple. He said to place the Brotherhood above the government. God and family. They tell you that day if you. son is dying in bed with cancer and he only has an hour to live if we call you you come immediately and leave his side he says that they pricked his finger on the trigger and they put blood on the image of a saint that they lit on him fire in his hand just said if you betray this Brotherhood May your soul burn like the saint you really believed in it with my heart and soul there is honor there is respect there is integrity there is loyalty there is a Brotherhood there is a secret society uh and these are words that I wanted to listen and what I was totally loyal to, but 14 years and many lives later, Sammy the Bull Bean has betrayed the Brotherhood and the gang members he once considered family have turned him into a Marked Man.

I know the danger was out there. I know how they did it. I think I know what they are going to do I know their movements I know them I was part of them is this every day of your life thinking where you are going to go where you are going to be who is going to know what Who will be there? I'm not going to worry about this every day of my life. I'm not going to stay in Montana somewhere scared to death staring at the blinds, but if they walk in the door and they have the gun and they have the gun, I'm going to the checkout, simple as that, by the way, Gravano told us that to become a man means that your father has to be Italian and usually says that you have participated in a murder when we remember how a boy from Brooklyn became one of the most feared executioners of the mafia and John Gotti's right hand man, Sami Grano, told us that many members of the mafia make an effort to read Machiavelli, the Italian analyst of power at any cost, five centuries ago Machiavelli said that there are two ways to survive: to be a fox that recognizes traps or a lion that chased away wolves when I was a child growing up in an Italian neighborhood near here.

Sammy Grano may have been a little of both in this house on A Street in Brooklyn Sammy Grano grew up, he says, in a bedroom full of photos of Kagney and Bogart, his parents, immigrants from Sicily, had a small dress factory, did they? What would your father have said if he had known that you were under the command of the Gambino Family? I guess it would have broken his heart just like it would break mine if my son or my nephew or someone had joined the mafia because I know their fate. I know what they're going to do.

I know what kind of life they will have. They're going to live, they're going to murder their best friends, they're going to lie and cheat their whole lives, says Grano, when his father told him about the guys in Slick suits hanging out on the mean streets of Bensen Hurst New York, the words he used were a message. contradictory, these were our protectors, we must never report on them, or do anything that offends them, and we have to stay away from them, they are bad, but one day they will be our bad guys. One of them noticed a tough kid, we some kids from around the corner stole my bike and I started fighting like crazy to get it back and across the street was our local mafia place and one of The guys rubbed my head and said. uh, he says look at it, it's like a little bow Sammy the bow and it's been stuck my whole life the problem kid got held back in fourth grade again in seventh and kicked out of high school for breaking the principal's jaw I have delpia and I have mental problems. learning and I always had problems with the teachers at Authority school and I thought I was really sick or crazy or I don't know what I thought I was and the kids ridiculed you at first until I gave some of them a smack, a good quick smack I would stop it, I learned it very quickly, but are you really saying that you joined the mafia because you had an unhappy experience in school?

No, no, as I grew up and when I finally got into the mafia it was for money. it was for greed it was for women it was for fast cars it was being part of a society part of a Brotherhood they sent you for a while directly to the army Yes by a judge instead of going to prison when you came back you were standing in a four on the road now basically I went back to the old neighborhood back to the corner I was doing a shocking carjacking solitary doing robberies I broke an arm here I broke a leg there and two years in the mafia the bosses asked me for something else 1970 you're what 24 25 years old They tell you to kill someone Did you think of saying no no I knew this was a part of life and anything they asked me to do for the family to benefit the family I would do If this is murder, I knew that sooner or later that question would come, the target would come Joe Kuchi, a 26-year-old bricklayer, a friend, Gano says it was all part of a mafia-related love triangle in which there was major deception involved.

You had to take this to dinner too, you had to lure him into the trap, that's how we killed the crowd, we were all drinking together and at the end of the night on the way home I got in the back of the car and uh , when we walk away and go downdown the block, I shot him in the head twice, the body was thrown out of the car on a quiet residential street where Grano shot him three more times in the back the next morning, the police were calling. our door and you know, they told me my brother was murdered, Jackie Kuchi Joe's little sister, I couldn't imagine who would want to kill him, he was with Sammy that night, but we didn't know and we didn't find out until we were 22.

Then I remember something that surprised me that I had no regrets at all I didn't do it I feel sorry for him in the least I felt power I felt like my adrenal in my body went completely out of control You were excited about that I guess it's like an animal going after its prey one of these days I hope he is the animal and there is someone else who is the hunter, the shooting barely made the headlines in New York City, but back in the Hood neighborhood, the news traveled fast, everything started to spread. change.

I would go to the same club with this, log in and before you know it the owners bounce. came out and Sammy no, no, you don't have to wait in line, so you just walk in and you were a player. I was, yeah, I was in I was out of the minor leagues. He was in the major leagues. Like Gano's reputation in the minor leagues. The Rose mafia also did it with another young star of the Gambino family, John Gotti, who had already served time for a murder. Grano says they met in a nightclub amidst music and gambling, and I say that, doing John, I hear a lot of good things. about you, he says yes, Samy, I to know, did he make an impression on you?

Did you have something? It sure was extravagant. He seemed smart. He seemed nervous. He's a tough guy on the street and meeting him, I mean, he's an attractive man. He has charisma, he has personality, uh, yeah, he impressed me a little over the years, Gravano became known as a hitman for a hit man, he says that after the first time he wasn't the one who pulled the trigger on every hit, there would be a trigger, a cleaning team. and Grano says he would choreograph and what it took to get him killed, he says sometimes it was treason, sometimes just insubordination, this Louis Debono you're talking about, he's a guy who knows what he's doing, he doesn't show up when the boss calls him . he stole from us in business he's doing shit everywhere it's time to go it just doesn't sound quite human the way you talk about them what do you want me to do how do you want me to talk about it well suffer I guess so that's not for you Or the public wanting to see me suffer or do things or whatever?

One of the gu had been your oldest friend, yes, and you felt nothing then, oh, you absolutely felt like something tore me apart, but you wanted to be there, oh. Yes, absolutely, why? Because someone who was very close to me and someone I love, so I would want to be there and I would want everything to work out. I would like it to be painless. Unexpectedly, Lou Molito's best friend Gano y Grano says partner in him. criminal business, his daughter Dena went to Gravano for help when her father disappeared. I sent Uncle Samy. I didn't talk to my dad for 2 days and he didn't go to work.

Something's wrong. He said why do you say that? Princess. because that's not my father, I told him something is wrong and he said don't worry, I will find your father, don't worry about anything. I mean, in retrospect, the man had my father killed two nights before, but he really looked at me. in my face Grano says that Malo was shot twice in the head and he never knew what hit him, his body was never found. He also said about your father's death that it killed him inside and when he put a bat to my father's head and that he wanted to be there to make sure there was no pain, oh how nice of him, he knew the wife, I knew the children and tried to help the family, but this is the life where he played the wrong cards.

He betrayed us and lost, he said my father may have played his cards wrong, but boy, he was quick to take my father's companies and my father's money, that he was quick to take, he didn't have the brain capacity to go out and win. money. so he had to take what other people, the only thing he knew how to do was use his two hands to murder people and that's it at the end, but does it matter that the murdered fathers of all these women were involved with the mafia according to FBI agent George ? Gabriel, the mafia, they were gangsters, they knew the rules and they knew that if they broke them they would kill them the same way they would have turned around and killed someone if their boss had told them to, so we told Dina I myth that in one of Gano's murders the man who shot him was supposedly his father, it has been written Dana that your father was there, as far as I know he didn't know anything about that you haven't heard it no where did this come from again this is this?

Sammy Gano? Well, that's news to me, but what if, like the government says, his parents were involved in the mafia, doesn't that make it any different if it turns out to be judge, jury, and execution if it turns out to be true? ? out of pure coldness perhaps nothing surpasses what Grano says he did in 1978 when Nick saeta disappeared Nick saeta M now that he was my wife's brother that was an order from Paul castalano I got stuck with that uh I participated in it and uh it's another one of those things that basically happened that's another one that killed me that means seeing my wife or my mother-in-law my father-in-law or people just destroyed me did you tell them if they don't know what they want?

Let me go home and tell them that I just killed your son or your brother, no, of course, no, they didn't suspect it, no, your wife didn't suspect it, no. Grano says he didn't know that after his brother-in-law was killed. The body would be dismembered. Wasn't there some way to get him out of the city, some way to let him know? I mean, did you owe that to your wife? There is nothing I could have done. I know it sounds pretty easy to say "get." go out of town or do something and you see that in the movies, but that doesn't really work in real life if I go to bed about it or I didn't want to do it or whatever I was going to do, how could you face your wife?

How could you? you face your life is very difficult but being in the marel of my life I am trained for this I am trained for betrayal I am trained to scam you said what have I become with that blood on my hands what am I? I'm a Gangster, that's exactly what I am on television. Sammy Gano's account of the stunning heist on his own Godfather, the king of the mafia in New York, the legendary Paul Castellano, they were told to kill them and if that means you have to die there. then die there with them die there in a shootout with the police do not back down from their blow there are 26 mafia families in the country the regulation established by a commission of bosses who divide up the territory to have an idea of ​​what is at stake for everyone us a presidential committee report estimated in 1988 that Bob received $30 billion a year in tax-free money the report says that the five families of New York increase construction prices by 20% in the center of this Sammy Grano who directed the concrete construction for the Gambino crime family.

I literally marvel at Manhattan when I see it because I controlled it. I literally control Manhattan when I see it at night, those lights and everything about it. I think of Donald Trump and Tishman. and everyone else who couldn't build a building if I didn't want to build it, that got me out and I made a lot of money from it, but to get control, Sammy Grano says he and John Gotti would have to negotiate the rules. de kostra by the law of La Selva in 1985 says that they decided to move on their own Godfather The head of the Gambino family Paul Castellano himself Paul Castellano what's the problem There were a lot of problems I mean Paul Celano was not a gangster, he was a gangster a gangster is a guy who is very tough he is a street guy he is a street thug he is a gangster the other guy is more he is more polished he is not so tough he is not so dangerous says Castellano was not really a gangster in that he spent his time reading the Wall Street Journal and lining his pockets and even at a meeting of his top gunman praising cops and saying you want to know who the real tough guys are, the cops who engage in domestic violence even though they don't know what they're doing.

I'm going to find, I mean, this is not something you would say to your most successful teams in a family, uh, after sending them to work every time you want someone to scoop guano, it says that the straw that broke the camel's back was what happened when some members of Gotti's team. He was charged with drug trafficking. Castalano was reportedly furious that they had broken the no-drug rule and had been caught. Everyone was afraid that pornography would move against Gotti and his CR. Gotti, he says, decided to attack first and turned to Sammy, the bull. help Gotti sent his right hand man, Angelo, and he had told me, says Sam, says we're going to eliminate pul, but this is a complete violation, a complete, complete violation, of our rules, oath and everything else, It says it took 7 months.

With careful planning, the hit would take place at Spark Steakhouse, a restaurant in busy Midtown Manhattan frequented by Castalano. The murder was planned for December 16, 1985, less than 2 weeks before Christmas. How many people gathered to do this? There were 11 of us to mislead the witnesses, Grano says that the gunmen were all dressed in white trench coats and black Russian hats, they told them to kill them and if that means you have to die there, then die there with them, die there in the shootout with the police. Don't flinch from his blow, what about innocent bystanders? People coming down the street would not be hurt unless they interfered with him and then they are no longer innocent bystanders.

He had a 357 Magnum and anyone who interfered with the strike team. I would take them out there's this whole myth that we just killed each other that shoots that in the ass a little bit Grano reveals what he says really happened that day he and Gotti were sitting in a parking lot just a block from the restaurant 520 p.m. Rush hour, a Lincoln with Paul Castellano and his driver, Tommy Bot, unknowingly approaches a surprised Gotti and Gano. I told John, they're right next to us and I told John if you turn in our direction I'll start shooting right here and now the light changed I was on the walkie talkie I tell them everyone get ready they stopped in front of the Sparks They parked the car as soon as Paul opened the door I saw the white jackets surrounding the car they were shooting Paul Tommy was actually watching Paul Shoot thinking which direction he would probably run, but some of the main team was across the street and they were They crossed and shot him in the head a bunch of times and we approached them.

I rolled down the window a little. I told John he was. What did you and Gotti say? Not much really, it's not like football, we don't get up and high five each other or anything, it was one of the biggest gangster murders of the century this afternoon, the police say that. Paul Castellano, the alleged boss of the Gambino crime family, and another man were shot to death. They said it was just for family. Tonight's wake for the great Paul Castalano. Gotti supposedly wanted to show his respect by coming here, but he preferred to stay away because of everyone. the undercover cops in the area who would like to talk to him about the murder of Paul Castalano.

I mean, he embellishes it in the newspaper as if he did the whole hit and what he did, the reality is that he was a driver. My driver would be. It would be years before anyone was arrested for Castalano's murder in January 1986. John Gotti, a street guy from Queens, was elected head of the most powerful crime syndicate in the country. John Gotti has succeeded Castalano as boss of the Gambino crime family, which gained overnight fame as the The man said he was the new godfather at the beginning, when Gotti took over, did you think you had done the right thing ?

Yeah, and you really put the gangsters back in charge, you put the gangsters back in charge and we were going to turn it around and do it. what kostra was supposed to mean if he really knew how to handle things oh he's smart there's no doubt that John GTI was now the CEO of a giant criminal corporation with over 2,000 members and associates and millions in income generated by grain captains. He says that he passed up to 80% of his profit to the boss, we had 21 captains, the gonier made members and how each of them gave something well, well, each person gives to his direct superior, they to their boss, like this that you were giving him like $100,000 a month, I think it's closer to 2 million a year, but yeah, between a million, two and two million years, something like that and how far did your tentacles reach in the business of the city, anything you want, we did it wherever we can put a situation together that inflates the price and we can have a skin that the mafia was so powerful in New York that it controlled everything from what you eat to where you live, what you use absolutely and how you travel in the city, everything had attacks. it was mafia almost everything i could think of was tumbano says a complex interplay of legitimate businesses like Concrete and Construction and criminal methods sometimes they just make sure their guys got the deal sometimes they got bribes from theother people's work, they did it he says that by controlling many of the unions, from the garment industry to garbage hauling, you're talking about a lot of money, you're talking about a lot of industry.

I mean, they take over an industry, put their people in business, and free enterprise disappears. Through the window, families were able to close job sites to control the price of concrete, to control who collected waste, to control who received deliveries or who did not receive them, if we wanted to stop a project, we can go directly to the teams that they line up and just say follow this according to the rules, every truck that arrives check your IT your ladies, which are all the rules of the Union, check if you are up to date with the Union, if you are up to date with your dues, that truck could sit there for an hour, but at the end of the day there will be 40 trucks 50 trucks in line to get in, they can't get in, so we'll slow down the project and destroy it.

He says that sometimes fear alone would do the job, but sometimes greed. It would help Gano says they would negotiate and then enforce prices across the industry when you went to a big bakery, for example, and said okay, your bread is 30 cents a loaf, let's make it 50 cents a loaf, we only want three cents a loaf so you're going to make a big profit so it's more of a negotiation so you can get everyone to raise the price together then everyone's going to benefit everyone but the public the final control is through fear the control ultimate is the victim's belief on the part of victim companies or victimized individuals that if I don't comply with their demands or if I don't comply with what they want me to do, that they ultimately have the power of life and death over me and what about drugs.

Gano says neither he nor Gotti were involved in drug deals, although they look the other way when others in the world did not. these drug dealers or whatever they want to do, it was just none of my business. I didn't feel comfortable with that. I didn't like the people you had to deal with, but you really want me to believe that with all that money out there. On the drugs you turned down from drug money, you really want me to believe that you had scruples with people, it's a dangerous and treacherous business, so it's not like I'm trying to brag that I didn't do drugs.

I just didn't do it because I didn't like it. I made millions in construction and shocking and not all that heat is enough, although well, yes, for me it was enough. He had a house on Staten Island white about a half mill he had a horse uh Farm a 30 acre horse farm in New Jersey He owned the office building where Grano was now and his wife Debbie had two children he told her he was in the construction business don't ask don't tell it was a very close family, it says it lives traditionally in separate but parallel worlds when the wife takes me to this house and says I would like to have this house.

I'm looking at her as a hitman to kill the person who leaves that house or enters that house and that's the way we go shopping she looks for the furniture I look for the hit if you question Gano's story about the mafia and union, you might want to know that five Teamster officials were ultimately convicted as to John Gotti even though he was convicted of the murder of Paul Castellano his lawyers say he is not guilty and that Gano's story is absurd more than Gano interview in a moment, but for those of you who have been asking about the mafia and the movies I love The Godfather I thought it was the best performance of our life I have ever seen The Godfather one and The Godfather also the other one sucked you try operate under-the-radar meetings at 2:00 in the morning and in discreet locations but that was before the modern virus, a fascination with celebrities infected even organized crime and Gano says no one was more vulnerable to that virus than his boss John Gotti.

What John did is unprecedented in organized crime, before his reign, if you will. In the Gambino family, everyone was much more reserved, this was their style, his style, this is what brought him down. Sam Gano says he knew authorities were closing in, but Gotti became increasingly arrogant and flashy traveling in his famously $2,000 chauffeured Mercedes. Bion Suits in one week alone was reported to have lost more than $300,000 on bets he bet the entire line on every game, whether it was football, basketball, hockey, every game, the FBI says Gotti told them he sold supplies of plumbing and zippers and who estimated his annual salary. with around $100,000 he used to get up around 11 to 12:00 in the afternoon, someone would pick out his clothes, he used to bring a barber every day and he would cut his hair, he would cut his nose hairs and it was a game for him.

It was a media act, he went to the restaurant one time and liked the wine that was $50 a bottle and made Joe Watsco grab the owner and raise it on the menu to $200 a bottle because people knew John Gotti liked it. I liked that one. he was obsessed with the whole picture, not with Goos, but with himself. Grano says that on one occasion Gotti pointed out a couple who was looking at him. I look and sure enough, they're looking at it, so I say, you want me to send one of ours. bodyguards to see who they are what they want he said no no this is my audience my audience because of my teaching and my understanding of Gan asra is a secret society we don't have an audience we don't recognize any audience we don't recognize anything Gotti would become a kind of folk hero in the cover of people and time three times the government tried to convict him on charges of extortion for assault and for ordering the shooting of a union leader declare him innocent the Dapper daon became Don's tefl for the third time in 5 years The government has failed to obtain a conviction against the man the government says is the head of the largest organized crime family in the United States.

I think Gotti emerged almost blatantly as someone who felt untouchable, to the point that we in law enforcement couldn't allow it. For that to happen he couldn't allow someone to feel that he was above the law. The FBI wanted to show that it could take down John GTI where another agency had not. Three times he escaped and beat the system. Sammy was setting up the trial. was contacting and bribing jurors and did not win the trial fairly Gano says that through an intermediary he paid a juror in a trial $60,000 to remain in a not guilty position in 1987 GTI had named Gravano as his advisor in the third highest position in the Gambino family, but Gravino says he was unable to convince Gotti that his high profile was putting everyone in the family at risk.

He loved being the center of attention too much. I think his problem was that he fell in love with himself. He saw himself on television. in the papers and lost touch with who he was, which is a gangster, not an actor, but in 1988 Gotti had a starring role in the latest FBI surveillance video outside Gotties, who hang out at Little Italy, the club social ravenite, in ravenite, on mberry street. every captain, every member of the family had to report there every week. no boss made the whole family show up in one place, in plain sight and in broad daylight, the mafia doesn't work that way, they don't all show up at once and make our lives easy, which is what they did.

I mean, nobody likes this. I don't think many people have had the courage to tell him his face and I would tell him John, the entire government is sitting outside the club, there are news people. All these people running outside, what are we doing here? Why don't we meet at 2:00 in the morning and try to avoid some of these things? He would just shut you up and say no, no, no, I'll show you the watch. I will show you how to overcome the cases. I'll show you how to do it. It showed us very well the way in which the Gravano jury said that he had helped John Gotti.

He was ultimately found guilty of obstruction of justice and sentenced to 3 years in prison. We'll be back this afternoon the New York attorney general filed a lawsuit against Sammy Grano as well as the author and publisher of his new book. The state believes that Grano has been paid for his story and is trying to freeze that money so that the the victims of his crimes can go after him, we are saying show me the contract and that very simple request has been rejected, which leads us to believe that the problem that we cannot see the contract is because the contract clearly states the terms of the agreement that results in Grano profiting from this book.

Gravano has declined to discuss whether or not he will receive money for the book, but says he will bring the case to the Supreme Court, of course, to subpoena it. First you'll have to find it our portrait of Sammy the Bull Graven the man who took down John Gotti will continue tomorrow night at this time at the turning point here's a preview tomorrow the mafia trial of the century John Gotti was more popular than the president of the United States the FBI tapes that helped seal Gotti's fate along with Sammy the Bull's betrayal what was the real reason you cooperated the real reason she was intrigued by an alleged murder plot Does Gotti know this?

No, you will find out with this interview described by the mobster you thank. for the government has a new face I wasn't always so beautiful I tell you the truth and a new life of freedom you have a really comfortable deal Sammy the bull Grave the surprising conclusion tomorrow night at the turning point so make sure you see the point turning tomorrow night at 10:00 9 Central and that's our report for tonight, don't forget Nightline after your local news. I'm Dian Sawyer in New York, join us again next Wednesday night for another edition of prime time live tonight our exclusive mafia betrayal story continues I said I agree with you he has to go we'll kill him last night in prime time we introduce you to one of the most feared executioners of the mafia his father is a hitman I was actually good at it he has confessed to 19 murders including his best friend He knew the wife He knew the children but this is the life he betrayed us and they killed him and he told us about John Gotti he knew his boss the Glamorous Godfather I think his problem was that he fell in love with himself tonight Sammy the bull Grain reveals what finally led him to turn against Gotti doing a sound like High School in high school you can throw a spitball at someone we used bullets the FBI tapes that helped seal Gotti's fate and after the century mob trial the question: should the government have given Grain a comfortable deal?

We attribute about 30 convictions to Sam Gano's testimony. Isn't the government concerned about the fact that they've let a psychopath loose and taxpayer-funded plastic surgery? I wasn't always like this. beautiful, I tell you the truth and a new free life between us, but the next time you get really angry with someone, won't it be tempting to use the old solution? Good evening, I'm Diane Sawyer, if you were with us last night. I heard the story of a murderer turned government Witness ammy the bull Grano the man who became the most important mobster to change sides tonight we will tell you how Grano decided to confront his former boss The Godfather John Gotti from the 1980s The FBI began to have some success fighting the Mafia with the help of a sweeping organized crime law and greater authority to install wiretaps, but they still had not cracked the most powerful crime family in the country. , the Gambinos.

Gotti's family here in New York was hiding in an apartment in Down the street from John Gotti's headquarters in the heart of Little Italy, the FBI's c16 squad was recording everyone coming and going, putting a face to the enemy, says agent Leis Shelo, the squad itself had actually been developing a pattern about who would appear in what. The night they walked into the club for 2 years, they watched who would pay tribute to whom. In the winter of 1988, the FBI managed to get into the Ravenite social club and placed an electronic microphone in the main meeting room, but they were still frustrated and bewildered. we'd lose John Gotti um we'd have his voice for a moment and then in about a minute we'd lose it again, the people listening to the bugs were saying we didn't hear John anymore when he left the club and the surveillance guys were turning around and they said no, we didn't have it outside and there was a little confusion, are you sure it's not outside?

We realized that we had to find out and determine where George Gabriel and 34 others were going now. Agents were assigned to the case and the FBI was following Gotti and Grano almost everywhere they went, it seemed like it was increasing by the minute, I want I mean, from one or two cars, um, it seemed to grow to four, five, six cars, trucks, vans. Neighbors in my neighborhood. He would come and tell me, you know, Sammy, there are people watching the breakup in investing. It came about when an informant told the FBI about an apartment above Ravenita, an apartment where Gotti apparently thought he was completely safe from theauthorities.

It took months, but finally the FBI planted a bug in Gotti's inner sanctum. He was The Godfather uncensored using words that he would always reject in public. Kostra was dead within an hour, it will be tonight or 100 years from now. I'm in jail. It was The Godfather relaxed and good complaining must and then through the music in the same tone of voice it was The Godfather talking about murder they told me a story I was in and I left I knew why the conversations were very direct they were not cautious talking about Coen Austra In terms I had never heard before, I hit it.

I had him killed one day, December 12, 1989. Gotti speaks of not one but two murders and he seems to be planning a new one for my life. I can't understand why he spoke. about so many people and so many crimes that we've committed so openly, I mean, I guess he felt very safe there. John had conversations you wouldn't dream would happen, you couldn't ask for more, I mean you couldn't. I've written better conversations and it was just a feeling of euphoria, uh, early on the night of December 11, 1990, the FBI made their move as usual. Gotti was at the Ravenite meeting with his senior hierarchy.

The door opened. The FBI came charging in and announced that John and Frankie. bass were arrested and the three of us faced 29 to 30 um senior captains of Echelon Gambino the family hierarchy uh surrounded by his soldiers and John did something quite funny he says we're not going to put the handcuffs on we're not doing anything he says that I'm going to have black coffee first and call the coffee boy Norman, get me Sammy and Frankie a cup of black coffee, they stood and waited while he drank coffee, yes the three of us had coffee and they stood there and waited. perfect gentlemen about it and then we left.

Gotti had been arrested before and had beaten the system three times, but this time would be different. The night we knew it was a real problem, but you didn't know about the taste and they'd keep you in jail, they say. you're in danger while you're away, they had it on a silver platter, I mean, he gave it to the family and another family. Ames on a silver planet by the way, the government also recorded Gravano in his office and Club, an agent told us that in thousands of hours Grano did not incriminate himself or say a word against John Gotti, but Gotti did not return the favor as you will see in At one point outside the Federal District Court in Brooklyn, John Gotti's supporters came out in force on the issue of The Godfather movie could be heard amidst chants and crowds of celebrity photographers like Anthony Quinn and Mickey Rook came to see the hottest show in town.

It was the final confrontation between the government and Gotti and it was inevitable, says Gotti's lawyer, Anthony Cardali, the government's idea is that Mr. Gotti operated his own government outside of theirs. John Gotti was more popular than the President of the United States in his eyes and that was why it was a victory at any cost. The prosecution of the country's most famous mobster had been charged with 13 counts, including the murder of mafia boss Paul Castellano and four others. The jury was sequestered under 24-hour surveillance to ensure that this Since then, no jurors have been able to be bought or intimidated to this day, their names have never been revealed and then on March 2, 1992, Sammy the Bull Grano arrived in an armored truck surrounded by armed guards to testify against his former boss, a surprise to you just a year ago. half before, when they were first arrested, John Gotti, Sammy Grano and Frankie Lacao had been members of the United Forces, the top hierarchy of the Gambino crime family, they were taken to the Metropolitan Correctional Center in midtown Manhattan knowing they could face life sentence, John said.

If we lose this case I'm going to go out the window we could escape and he looks at me and says through the window we are on the 11th floor and if we fall then he says no no Sammy listen to me he says I have another plan, he says in the future, he says we will raise four five million, he says we will bribe a president and we will get a pardon like half, he said well, if you don't mind, if that's your plan, if not I don't care if I continue with my plan, but there was no escape and while They were sitting in prison, what did you hear?

The backstabbing and the lies. Graveno says he listened in disbelief as Gotti spoke ill of him on tape. There was a conversation about Gano's lucrative business. deals I say, you can think of 15 compilations Christ, you have Rex, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, he keeps complaining to Frankie, he was complaining and complaining about me and Gotti not only You complained about Gano's business, but you repeatedly fired your deputy boss and you felt he was going to blame you for the murders. Well, play the tapes, just like you're saying now, it sounds like, in other words, poor John Gotti, he lost control of Sammy the B. killing people he's got green eyes he's taking the money he's got a great team he's completely taken over the poor John GTI so the lawyers theory is that jurors could see him that way the public could see him that way and maybe maybe just maybe John Gy could be acquitted.

Grano says he became convinced he would be the scapegoat at trial, but still maintains he would have been loyal to the end if he had gotten it, only apologizing if he had said once, once in prison, the full 11 months. . Sorry Sammy, I'm sorry my great Mount, you were accused, let's see how we can fight this case so someone wins. He wouldn't be sitting with you. He would probably be serving a life sentence. He would never have cooperated if you had ever gone. Talk to him and talk to him about the tapes. What did he say? It's your fault.

You made me mad and he was talking out of my ass. That's what he said. I'm trying to think of another word, but that's what he said. In the meantime, I'm just venting when you're venting. I was arrested on your Steam. Grano says for the first time he started to believe he was a Marked Man even if he was released and I realized that John would probably eventually take He didn't take me out for any other reason, but he wants a program, a boss or John Gotti, he doesn't want He doesn't want anyone to be his equal, he doesn't want anyone, in any way, to shine and I guess he was shining too much.

It sounds like high school, yeah, but the only thing is, in high school you could throw a ball at someone, we used bullets, he says. Gotti became so paranoid and verbally abusive in prison that Frankie Lacao approached him with a proposal and said: "When I get out, if we beat this case, I'm going to kill him. I thought about it for a second and told him, I agree with you, he has to go. I told him, but I'm going to tell you something, I've also done a lot. I'm not going to take anyone as the head of the family.

We killed him. I'm taking charge. He shook my hand. He kissed me. He hugged me and told me. He says, I only want one thing. I want to be. the guy to pull the trigger Does Gotti know this about him who told you this? No, no, he's going to find out with this interview. Did you just seal Frankie Casio's fate? Frank, you'll probably deny it. he's lying but he could do it he'll survive after almost a year in prison Grano made the decision that would take down John Gotti in a different way when did you decide to cooperate what was the moment I decided enough was enough I made a list of people we would have to? kill so there would be no retaliation and the list consisted of his brother jeie, who I really like his brother Pete, the idea of ​​killing his son makes me sick, I tell you the truth, so you calculated how many there were. people you had about 10 12 14 other people I looked at the list I guess I looked at myself and did some soul searching.

I tore up the list, threw it in the bin and made a request to call and get in touch. The FBI was very suspicious initially. George Gabriel, one of the FBI agents who had arrested Johan Gotti, was there when Grano agreed to turn around, promising to tell everything about his 23 years in the mafia. In reality, we were looking for what the Trap was. Here, someone was luring us into this. It was a trick by John Gotti to dissuade us from the work we were doing to consolidate our case and give us a detour and a side activity that we were not expecting, we did not believe it initially until we started trying. with him and discovered that I was on the level.

This is the deal Grano and the government worked out instead of life in prison. Gravano would get a maximum of 20 years in exchange for full cooperation. Then Gravano made a surprising request: he wanted to stay two more. weeks in prison with Gotti before his betrayal was revealed and they told me what would happen if they killed you on your way out. I guess we don't have a deal then. Why did you want to come back? Why do I want to go back? I wanted to tell my family on a visit that I was going to cooperate and leave and I did, probably one of the hardest things I did in my life was only my wife and daughter burst into tears and they didn't want me to.

I was afraid for you. He was afraid for me. I was afraid for the children. I was afraid of the whole situation. It just wasn't the way to them. I guess the police were the enemy and were changing sides. It just hit them and devastated them for 2 weeks. Your secret. Then at 1:00 a.m. m. On November 8, agents took him out of prison. He just couldn't believe what he was doing was moving at 100 mph. Gotti found out that night, from what I understand, a guard at the prison. He slipped a note or ladder under his cell door and said the FBI got Sammy out.

The next time Grano saw John Gotti would be a year and a half later in federal court. I know it was going to be like World War I. I'll never forget walking through the door. I mean, all I heard was my own heart beating. It was a very, very atomic moment. Here comes Graven. We hadn't seen him since the day he decided to cooperate and he. he comes in linked by a wide variety of FBI agents who had been brought in orchestrated by the government to have that impact and that drama. Gano took the stand and we were all watching the first exchange of glances you know between Gravano and Gotti, did you watch?

Gotti, yes, he had that icy look that was looking at me to try, I guess, to intimidate me. Uh, it didn't work, we growled at each other a couple of times during the trial, we know what we want to do to each other. I mean, it's clear for nine days that Grano wowed the court with his mafia and murder stories and his interpretation of the Lou Deon Ando tapes you're talking about, not that he's some legit guy who doesn't know what he's doing. going. a made guy, he knows what he's doing, he doesn't show up when the boss calls him, it's a lifestyle and these are the rules and regulations you live by and when you break some of the rules and regulations, you know the consequences of them, the main objective. of the defense attorneys was to discredit Grano, he is a serial killer, they argued with a motive to kill and a motive to lie, several of these murders were for their own purposes and yet he came up with a story that somehow way he turned them into the so-called Enterprise. related tapes first of all, that's the government version of the tape.

I doubt that's the language on the tape. Defense attorneys also argued that Gotti can be heard on the tapes complaining that Gravano instigated the murders. That Gravano was the one who moved to the place. businesses that have been murdered if you have something he wants to take it from you and if he can't take it from you just by grabbing it he will kill you for that reason there are many people who think he had a motive but it has nothing to do with money or greed That's not true, how do we know? Believe me, why would I kill my closest and best friend for an extra 20,000 50,000 100,000 a year when I'm earning? the millions, but I mean, people who have money tend to want more money, but they don't always kill their partners and I want to kill my partner for that.

Louis Molo was killed because he betrayed our group. I saved his life, I let him live for a while. until John said enough was enough How many of the eight murders does Grano say he committed while he served under John GTI as head of the Ganino family? how many of those would you say that Gotti approved none none well so therefore they are you say that Mr. Gotti was too weak to stop him, you know, his right hand, the activity took place long before his presentation or participation, for so to speak, or friendship, so to speak, with Mr.

Gotti, well, eight of them took place after Mr. Gotti became the head of the company. Gambino family according to the published report, but, you know, the problem is that we are lawyers. We are concerned with whether or not the government has met its burden of proof in a court of law. We can't really address these other issues if. Sammy Grano was a savage and ruthless killer. John Gotti would have had him killed. John Gotti would not allow anyone in his family to break those rules and go around killing people and be that cruel animal that they tried to portray without killing him himself. it would take the jury less than two days to return a verdict on April 2, 1992 John Gotti was found guilty of extortion and murder the reaction outside was Chaos Gotti supporters overturned cars broke windows I said it in court I say it here our country is sickto the core if you are willing to pay for Testimony literally acquitting one person of 19 confessed murders my father is the last of the meagans they no longer make men like him and never will the teflon is gone the dawn is covered with velcro and each charge in the indictment stalled.

When did you find out the verdict? I think that the day that happened he felt pleasure no, not at all, not at all, what was the total disgust of my whole my life their lives the mafia this is the The final result of everything on June 23, 1992 John Gotti, once the Most powerful godfather, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. I think history will show that he brought down, brought down with his mouth here for the mafia and this extravagant style, wait a minute, he brought down. with his mouth, yes, I'm sitting with Sammy, the Bu Gravan, who calls who the traitor.

I'm sure there are plenty of guys in prison who were smart enough to understand what John Gotti did by bringing in the whole mob and getting them out. public hearing Half of it destroyed he has to take credit for the tapes and videos I'll take credit for the position we Partners started as partners ended as partners I guess Sami Grana would go on to testify in six more trials and was a powerful witness who helped convict 38 people, including the heads of two crime families, 11 captains, a corrupt cop and the head of a local New York team and one more thing.

Frankie Lassio, through his attorney, denied that he ever planned to kill John G. The attorney said Gano's claim was absurd. We'll be right back. Sammy Grano participated in the murders of 19 men. The FBI says all of his attacks were mob-related. Last night you heard from the daughters of some of those who were murdered. Outraged women. Gravano was free, we were intrigued by them and wanted to know more about their lives at home, more about their not-quite-average American families, well, we were definitely not the Cleavers, but Cindy de Bernardo, who grew up in this large mansion, says that It was Father Knows.

The best with a twist, you know I was a girl and suddenly you go to school and people say they're making fun of you, oh you're going to make your gangster dad chase me and this and that don't. knowing full well what you mean what you're talking about and then you have to be afraid to go home and ask a question like, well, how do you ask your dad if Sammy Gravano got out of the Arizona prison where he had been confined? in a special witness unit he had just turned 50 for the next 8 months he would live as a ghost in the witness protection program moving around devious Roots using different names hidden but free, you know you leave New York when you leave there, I mean to the people, there are so many nice people.

I mean, I went to America where people stop a car and tell you to lead them, you walk, you cross the street. Do you see the irony in Sammy the bull, he is happy that people are nice? manners maybe because you are not a mafia Still, you never were and you don't understand life like I understand life to get up every day of the week and think about who is going to kill you or who you are. you're going to kill or who you're going to rob and what's going to happen and you have to step back from it a little bit to realize certain things as part of your deal with the government, you also received some unusual benefits at taxpayers' expense, you underwent a plastic surgery, yes, I was not always so beautiful, I tell you the truth, they broke my nose several times and calcium built up around which I could not breathe and, part of that, was fixing that and, in the meantime I was there, I was with a top plastic surgeon and I gave him a little tweak and Tuck, the government made P for plastic surgery, yeah, but you look, I mean, I look like Sammy, you look like Sammy, a little different, a little different, that's what I tell people I look like them, this is what makes working or even owning a business very, very difficult, very difficult for me.

Did you think about getting enough to be fully disguised? It completely changed, yes I really did in a moment. We, the plastic surgeon, did look like Robert Redford, but when he told me no, I stayed with what he had. We wanted to ask the US Marshals why they agreed to pay for cosmetic surgery that didn't disguise their appearance. but they rejected our request for an interview is just one of the questions being asked today about the US government's treatment of Grano and what ends justify what means under the terms of his agreement with the government Grano could have served up to 20 years in prison, but the US attorney's office, the FBI, and two US senators supported him and praised his cooperation;

In the end, his testimony was crucial in convicting Gotti and 37 other mobsters, and Associate Judge Leo Glasser said Grano had been instrumental in breaking what he called the organization's suffocating control. crime crime later reduced Gano's sentence to just 5 years and 60 months for a man who had confessed to 19 murders. You got a really sweet deal just because I proved myself. I could have done it 20 years. Judge Glasser told the media what you would rather have done. If we didn't make a deal with Sammy, would you prefer John to be on the street running a family? Would you rather Johnny Gambino ran the heroin trade from Italy to the United States?

Would you prefer this strangled hole to continue in the union associations in every way? shape and form 19 murders in 5 years in prison the judge had to say something like he loosened the strangulation control of the mob that is just nonsense I mean, it is nonsense all this was that John Gotti was taken to the Altar to sacrifice himself and give the kind of benefit and the kind of prize they gave to Grano I think it's a sin I think he dealt the most powerful blow to the mafia because the choice for every mafia member in the whole country as time goes by will say what he would prefer to do .

I'd rather be John Gotti and go to prison and for the rest of my life in prison or when I'd rather take this route and get away from the mafia, me and my family and everything else, once and for all, he has admitted to 19 murders . almost like he's rewarded, so that means he could go out today and murder a bunch of people, but if I know he's a major criminal figure and I rat him out, that means I'm going to get a pat on the back. . and say you're a good girl, Cindy, now you can go home, you can live happily ever after and then you can write a book too and then you can make millions of dollars off other people's misery, the families of the murdered men say that that's how it is.

It's just an added insult to Injustice that Grano now also has a book on stands, we just don't want him to see a dime of the book money. Laura Garafalo and her sister Karen are filing a civil lawsuit against Grano for wrongful death along with Dina. Molito began calling victims' families to make sure Grano did not profit from the book he wrote with author Peter Moss. I have not issued a single check or Advanced Samy Grano or a penny in cash in connection with this book under the command of the boss. I don't know if anyone else has, we assume Grano has made a deal for a cut of the profits from this new obene book coming out last month at a Coney Island restaurant.

All the families met face to face for the first time. Attorney Ronald Kuby. They joined the fight and we are going to encourage the Crime Victims board and the Attorney General to go ahead and confiscate the proceeds of those crimes. Yesterday the Attorney General's office and the board filed a lawsuit to recover any money Grano received as part of a book contract, if really Salvatore Grano is not going to make any profit from this effort, then show us the contract and that request very simple has been rejected, which leads us to believe that the problem is that we cannot see the The contract is because the contract clearly states the terms of the deal that results in Grano profiting from this book.

He didn't tell us if he's getting paid, but he says he'll fight Sam Law's son from New York that he could stop him from doing. book money, but what about the millions he says he earned from a life of crime? You have money? You need a loan. How much do you have? I have a few dollars 8 million. I read in the newspaper. Well, that's not true. I don't even know where to get these stories from, but they let you keep your money, it's not like they let me keep my money, no one knows when they accused me before cooperating, they accused us of crimes that no one was looking to commit. our money, why would anyone want to take my money now?

No one is taking John's money, he's in prison, no one is going after his money, why should they come after mine? Did you take down the mafia? I think I exposed the mafia more than anyone has ever exposed the mafia. Many obituaries are being written about it. They are too early. I think you will never delete it. No, I don't think so, as long as you have greed and power. And I don't think you'll delete it. The only thing is. I think you will bring into play people who do not have the heritage, they are no longer being schooled by the veterans.

I don't think they're more interested in even dealing drugs, but in doing drugs, using drugs, you know this. is exactly this is the complaint about lack of family values, yes it's that you are a mess with no family values ​​since Sammy Grano became in 1990, the government has continued its attack on organized crime in New York and is moving to clean up garment and waste card industries. fish market, the convention center and in the current disorder it is said that the older gangsters are returning to the streets to concentrate on gambling, solitary betting and narcotics, while the younger, more cunning soldiers are said to be They are getting into white collar crime, mail fraud, fake mortgage companies about countering stock scams on Wall Street and of course new members keep joining, as for John Gotti, he has been trying to get a new trial claiming that Sammy Grano lied on the stand, but Grano denies the charge and last week Gotti's fourth motion for a new trial was filed. denied John Gotti, the head of America's most powerful organized crime family, is now serving life in prison without parole.

Gotti is held in a tiny cell, he has no chair, he only has a bed, he is there 23 hours a day, it is deprivation. the rank of a Russian in the Gulag worse he has been forcibly removed from his cell only 12 hours a week visits are through plexiglass his wardrobe now prison-issued khaki pants his lawyers told us he would do 1,000 push-ups every days if the government were thinking that if we sensory deprive this man if they thought that this was going to break him in fact what he has done has made him much stronger I have never seen anything like this let's see him it encourages us I feel sorry for him, do you deserve it?

What do you think after we did? What do you think when it comes to society? We all deserve it as Gotti remains officially the head of the Gambino family. John Jr., 33, is reportedly acting. The boss's news reports say that John GTI swore to avenge his father in your head, John Gotti Jr. I guess that's how he would feel, but we're not talking about a boxing match, if he finds me, someone's going home in a body bag, maybe me. I see, that's absurd, no one is going to come after him, in fact, I can't imagine anything sillier anyone could do if Gravano gets hurt or killed tomorrow, who's the first guy they'll blame, but John has if Gotti is ? not after him, what about Frankie Lassio's friends who is serving life without parole in a prison in Tero Indiana or the dozens of other kustra captains and soldiers also in prison because of Sammy Gravano?

Obviously, Sammy is taking a big risk. Beyond which we I'm not going to comment, Sammy, you still know he's out there and we're not going to comment beyond the FBI's C16 unit now operating out of this office building in Queens. His star witness says they never lied to him, thank God I took care of it. with a great team of FBI agents and prosecutors and people who kept his word and just made me stronger and stronger in my resolve to change my life and go in a different direction. You have a wife and two children. An ex-wife. and two children, how do they feel about you today?

I think they still love me. I think they still love me. Are you in contact with them? I call from time to time to see how my children are doing. They didn't come with you to witness protection. No, she made the decision as a mother to stay with her children and her wife must also live with something she only learned in recent years: when her brother was brutally murdered, her husband was there. I think I was a little shocked by that. but she didn't really say much about it a bit of shock mhm yes I think Rano is going to return to a life of crime I think the seeds were planted before he left and I think he has everything planned and so soon since he no longer He's the centerpiece of media attention and his book has reaped the other benefits it brings him, but Gravano will return to his old craft and the scary thing is,in my opinion, he has a lifetime pass, the government is leaving It's very difficult to bring this Maniac back to court and because it's a publicity mission, hey, we screwed up after less than a year on the show witness protection.

Grano opted out, you can't be in contact with anyone, there are certain rules and regulations that, um, I. I didn't want to live and I didn't even want to go into the witness protection program from day one when I was sentenced. I wanted to get out of jail and just get on with my life. The government sat me down in meetings. and he literally almost begged me to come into this what are you doing now? what is your life now? I still exercise. I dog lift some weights. You don't use your real name. Nobody knows where you live.

I hope you move. I move through the crowds I move through the crowds without anyone noticing me, hopefully I'm having fun with my life. I'm going in a positive direction. I just live a life like a normal human being should live their life and I sit back and smoke. A cigarette and I relax and I just love life, it's not the game, but wait until you're relaxed, wait until you're Ling, life is true, but I was a master at that game and I'm not going to walk. In that easy game Gano has now moved on once again since he is no longer in the witness protection program.

There are no limits to where he can travel within the United States at the time this big book of television interviews is being published. Where are you going to stay? kalamou I really don't know. I'm going to completely hide for a while, I guess for a couple of years and live my life behind the scenes and see how it all happens, but next time. get really angry at someone, isn't it going to be tempting to use the old solution? That's what brought my life to a disaster in the first place and you don't think I'm stupid enough to start doing that again.

I'm Sammy I'm basically the same person, but I changed direction and if I got mad at someone, I'd just walk away, I'd just walk away. I'm free now, I think. I have never killed anyone, the only way you can put me in that situation is with the hit, when they come, it will be me or them.