Charlamagne Tha God Moderates a Conversation with Tip "T.I" Harris and Shaka Senghor

oh no, no, it doesn't seem like everyone is exaggerating enough, please make some noise, ladies and gentlemen, for the people who are about to reach grace in this scenario. I want you to stand up and give them a warm warm welcome how can we fix the criminal justice system panel Shaka Senghor di Harris you what is happening a3c atl was happening thank you all for joining us today I want you all to introduce yourself Chaka we start with you what pass football Singur I'm going to correct my mistakes and that book out of the dose, when we're done, see you there and this man needs no introduction, the unofficial mayor of ATL, even Tia Harris, alumnus of Frederick Douglass, and we're here to talk about the criminal justice system. prison reform and my first question is to what extent do prisons and reform systems currently promote education in the reform process, if at all, I'll take that one, it's actually great that you asked that question because for years prison reform systems Prisons were going in the opposite direction when it came to education, so around 1994 an anti-crime bill was passed, but then President Bill Clinton removed Pell Grants from prisons and from then on education in that environment it has been very deficient, except for those who really assume it. themselves to educate them and I would say that in recent years there has been a push to start refocusing on education, but I think there is something that is really missing in that piece, which is the emotional, mental and psychological education that is necessary for them to people actually return to society healthy and at home.

I mean, first of all, I would say two things: One, the answer to that question depends on whether you're talking in a federal prison or a state prison, because if we talk to state prisoners, we argue in the back, that's 50 prisons. different. systems at the state level, so each of them operates under a different regime at the federal level, there are probably more programs and probably more education, but they are not necessarily promoted and you could be in prison for years and not know exactly everything they have to offer. I will also go so far as to say that the education we generally receive in prison is not necessarily academic.

You know, I think it's the same kind of discipline in moral education that people. I used to go to the army so you know I'm saying that exists in prison because you know they teach you manners and etiquette and like at home they trained you at home and what your mom taught you right from wrong how do you know how address people, you know how to behave without being rude, impolite, or disruptive to others, and you know that if you step out of line, you usually get what you know better than that in prison. They're going to stab you in the yard for that, so you'll straighten yourself out pretty good, a lot of that lazy person who talks loudly, you move around without respecting other people's space, you know that kind of politeness is usually what comes mainly from prison, look, the problem I have is that they call prisons correctional facilities, but if you have a group of brothers who never dealt with trauma before, they with the help of the prison are going to go to prison and suffer more trauma, then How do you handle that?

I think one of the things that's really important is that we actually have people who were in prison speaking about these issues, so I definitely give them three c's for even having me on the panel, so for those in the audience who don't No I know my story. I was incarcerated for 19 years, seven of those years I was in solitary confinement and one of the things that I observed in that environment was the high level of psychological trauma and a high level of mental illness and when I start to think about our communities and the high levels of gun violence and things like that.

I started making this connection between what happens in prisons and what happens when people come home and, you know, Sixpoint, we talked about education before like I was educated by some of the most incredible. mentors in the world these are men who are dying in prison these are men who have turned 3540 years old and were 20 years old when I came in and they saw something in me that was redeemable even when I didn't see it and I, that's what I call as a true OG. I think that title has been given to people who haven't earned that title, but they really, oh dear, learn from their mistakes and impart that wisdom to the next generation and some of that wisdom. fell on me was understanding your mental health understanding that you have gone through several layers of trauma I was 17 when I was shot I didn't even consider any type of treatment 16 months later I shot and killed a man and when I started asking Other young brothers who were convicted for murder, you can see that story every day that I was shot, I was around someone who was shot and finally someone was shot and killed, so I start to think about what that means.

It means coming home healthy and having one, you have to have that mental awareness to know that I just came out of a hellish existence and I'm coming back to a community that doesn't really understand that, it's cool that when people come home. We have parties and people do celebrations, but once that happens, real life kicks in and we're not talking about what's to come, what's happening with our brothers and sisters coming home mentally and emotionally and why it's so important for us to be aware of So having these spaces where we can talk about that correlation between recidivism, 70 percent of people leave and come back and it's one reason why that happens, it's hard to function here in a world that doesn't quite understand where you are.

They come from the small things that become gigantic when we ignore them in the first place, so for me my mission is to raise awareness about that part and I think this is a type of audience that can really convey that message. because that's real rehabilitation yeah I mean I think first of all you didn't look for the system to rehabilitate you like that's not their main focus their main focus is cheap labor so let us know and as soon as as we can. to understand that and understand it, no matter how many programs there are in these institutions and facilities, these plantations would not exist, that would never be just checking boxes that would never be their primary relationship, like prison, you know, an extension of slavery.

I know 34 absolutely because if I mean there are other steps to take to end poverty, to end crime, to end recidivism, there are several steps that can be taken and none of those steps are being taken. justice, this isn't even about legality, you know, it's about cheap labor and how to continue slavery beyond what it is in 1865, you know, I think the Thirteenth Amendment says that clearly slavery is abolished unless it is in prison, so now the only question is how can I think you are enslaved, how can I get you off the streets and become a slave?

I believe those systems have been in place since the end of the Civil War. I guess that's one of the reasons they don't do it. I don't really want to give you real rehabilitation, you know, from a social and emotional level because they want you to keep making the same mistakes, but let's keep the point about the legislation, why does the criminal justice system need reform, so I'm under your command? elaborate, okay, I probably have a much more articulate way of saying it, but since it's up to me Elsa, please tell them why I agree, which is why it's so relevant to your point about the 13th amendment, you know when we say free labor .

People often just hear that but don't really think deeply about it, so what does that actually look like in prison? My first job in prison was working in the kitchen for 17 cents an hour, yes 17 cents an hour, so if that was happening in a second. A third world country would be hypercritical about that, but it's happening in our own backyard. One of the things people don't think about is that there are companies in America today that exploit poor, free prison labor, so these same companies will hire you. prison for what is considered a good prison wage, which can be like a dollar a day, but then you can't get a job when you go out in those same companies and that's problematic, right?

And the reason it needs reform is, on the one hand, it is exploiting the poor. black and brown communities at a level that was basically unheard of 20 or 30 years ago and one of the big things that came out of these

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s with Ava Duvernay is the film xiii, which I highly recommend everyone in this room see because it offers insight historical. connection with the re-enslavement of Minh, our people, you know, after slavery in 1865, so reforms are beginning to be carried out in an unprecedented way, for the first time in the country, both sides agree on that things must be done well. but the reality is that we can't wait for them to make decisions that we have to make ourselves, which is, first of all, to prevent as many of our people as possible from being enslaved and then when they return home, to start being really proactive and thinking about how to keep someone at home like there are things like no and I'm like I'm a successful person for the sake of this

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and what I mean by that is success as a writer, success as an editor, produced all these things different, but there are still impediments that I faced in almost ten years after my incarceration, like I can't go looking for an apartment right now.

I had to check a box that says: have you ever been convicted of a felony? So what's up? had that series, yes, absolutely, and had been on Oprah, yes, I say it man, so it just says, for example, that I travel more than most American citizens, right, I can't get CSA even though my Federal taxes pay for that, right? get a typical job if you needed it because of that felony, so that's 40,000 collateral consequences for having a felony and also loans, business loans, mortgage loans, even automobile laws, as you know, they ask you if you've been convicted of a serious crime, so financial institutions. we're involved in this too, you know it's all to help keep us oppressed and dependent on a system that we can't depend on to support our families, so we usually have to step outside the lines of the system at that point, usually that brings us back to the system, yeah I can't figure it out, I can't get TSA PreCheck either because of old felonies, so watch out, imagine how stupid I look.

My wife and children can go through pre-screening and you know Global Entry and I can't. mmm because it was a serious crime in the nineties. I never tried it, so supremacy, yes, it is a significant reform, even possible in the current climate, the current political climate. I think it's some of the work that some of the brave organizations across the country have done. You know, Cut 50 has been one of the leading organizations helping to change some laws. Van Jones Jessica Vans no longer runs it, but he founded it and you know that the work they have done on a political level has been historic. in the wild and I really want people to examine that more because they accomplish something that just hasn't been executed in the past, where you get both sides to agree that this is really wrong and to do that we had to humanize the problem was like that. as many of us begin to become storytellers and begin to take ownership of our stairs.

When I got out of prison, he said, "Please don't tell anyone you use the prison, let alone convict you of a murder like you never will." I couldn't do anything in society, but I had a responsibility to my friends who I left behind and I knew, as a writer, that I had a talent and a gift that can really help people understand how many of us end up in prison, but because We were able to humanize that point, since I did an interview with Oprah before that, like she wouldn't have gotten engaged to someone who had been convicted of a felony like that and what she did changed her way of thinking about it and she started to use our platform to talk about it, you know, and of course we got tips, we got Meek Mill, we have all these brothers since we started talking more about it and that part of humanization is very important and then another part should be real, that It was like because the opioid epidemic is primarily affecting rural white communities, there's no idea that we can empathize with what people went through during the crack epidemic, you know, and unfortunately it took them seeing it. on their own children, but whatever works, we know.

At this point, we don't even like his work. I mean, I care about people like Diane, but you get my point, it's like you can only care about them as much as they care about you, not the facts, yeah, but, but, that's just my point is that a Once people can start to see how DNS affects them,when the ship starts it is a plate and then the end result is like it is a monetary industry and like any other industry where the investment may seem big from the beginning in the long run, the investment stops paying. so not everyone thinks that's the reality, so I think we have to continue to do our part to continue to push the boundaries.

I mean, I agree with everything that the brother, the surprise brother, says, and I think he's done a tremendous job, you know? I am saying that I speak on behalf of you, the brothers, the brothers and sisters that we have behind the wall, who know that you have been seemingly forgotten. I think they know they've done a great job of putting their responsibility on their shoulders and carrying it. load but to answer your question aboutCan there be true prison reform? Okay, yes, no, and today I will give you both aspects and I say yes, because one cannot have evil without good and one sees more light in the darkest places that one knows and the laws of the land say that every time When a seed is planted, something must grow well, so no matter what the condition of the promotion is, okay, we can start planting seeds and do things that we may not see now in this administration, as you know. a lot of good things, a lot of the legislation is being passed right now, you know these things weren't conceptualized during this administration, they just landed on the President's desk during this administration and he signed it, he didn't push them because it made it seem like it. well and it helped your camp or your platform so that way I say yeah we can't start doing things but it's going to start at the local level it's not going to start and send it it's not going to start in Congress it's going to start at the local level. politics, you come to your city council member and meet your community leaders organizing, mobilizing, and creating movements that will grow and be noticed by bigger politicians with bigger platforms who have more incentive to help you because you help them, that's how works and The reason I say it doesn't is because until this country truly addresses and takes responsibility for the wrongs that have been done to us for generations, then it will not be able to take the necessary steps forward, not big enough to make some significant progress, like some notable progress, for our people, for example, the crack epidemic, okay, the Iran-Contra scandal has been proven, the United States traded weapons for cocaine with Nicaragua, came to the United States, flirted with communities, created crack and on the other hand, created a crack law trap that is your boy, Jill Biden and Strom Thurmond implemented it well, it's really breaking down.

I'm sure they had something to play with Clinton and all the mother has something to play, but it's Reagan, okay, Reagan and Bush, the crack law has locked up millions for dozens of like dozens and hundreds of years, but no there is responsibility. America hasn't even said much, you know where we went wrong, we served, it's almost like okay, yeah, we're willing to pay for it, so with that kind of attitude I don't do it. I think there is some level of reform, some significant level of reform. We might do what we can, but it will never be what we need.

Yes. I wondered if they really wanted a chakra that you worked on in the first step back. exactly it's the first step back, so the first step act was a lot in that Trump step, you know, it's law in the last year and basically what it does is reverse some of the damage caused by the crack cocaine laws and that in the A terrible old bill was passed, so people were very critical about it, you know, largely because Trump signed it and Kim Kardashian's voice was used in that space and people were very critical, but the one thing I definitely want to say regarding Kim's work. to her face, she's been very authentic, she's actually very smart, smarter than most people who give her credit and she's been very strategic in her approach to how she's been able to achieve things that you know, she supports those who They have been doing the real work, the real work.

The job is Jessica's accident speaker, Sam, and people whose names may not appear when it was approved, but it's really to reverse some of that damage to bring people in the federal system closer to home, a lot of times you get locked in. . In Fez you can end up, you know, miles and miles away from home, so certain provisions are included to ensure that there is dignity for imprisoned women, that they have the necessary tools or that they know when they are on their period, things like that that Women aren't giving birth chained to sales and things like that, so it's incremental progress.

Bring some people home on an electronic monitor. There was some criticism about it, mostly from people who had never sat in a prison cell. They don't give a damn how you get home. Yeah, as long as you get home safely, the thing is, it's a first step, you know, it's not the end all be all, but it's definitely something more comprehensive and progressive than what we've seen in the past, but there are a couple of things I really want. offer a kind of conversation about what reform looks like, so there are some key things that I think need to be carried out, one, we need to decriminalize mental illness, yes, and that's what I say and I like to explain each thing so that people really understand.

What's that? Let's say someone comes to prison with a two-year census because he had a schizophrenic episode and vandalized the building and is incarcerated. That person can end up serving a sentence of 20 to 30 years because they habitually break the rules in prison largely because they have the mental inability to function the way someone who does not have a mental illness does, many times they end up in solitary confinement for extremely long periods of time and therefore the cycle just repeats itself correctly, so we deal with that, that's a big problem. The problem that will reduce much of the prison population is that we not only have to decriminalize marijuana but other drugs as well because ultimately people can choose what to do with their bodies as soon as they find a way to make money from marijuana . industry that they started to legalize it, meanwhile, the people that were affected and in prison cannot penetrate that industry, you know, I say it, we are trying to change that culture, but decriminalizing it and the third thing is all Probation and paroles that really feed the system, so a lot of people go back to prison, it's not for a new crime, but because they got a technical parole or a violation of parole, which means if you get out of prison and you get arrested for jaywalking something that Under normal circumstances, you pay a fine to move forward that will send you back to prison for being with another of my partners.

We have a right to who is on parole. Being with another partner in Michigan when I got out of prison. I had to do it. sign a gun law I couldn't be around a water gun, a water gun, literally, I said nothing, I have to do it, anything, they told me that empty shell, you know, if let's say if we go to Chevron County Road and We go in, we go on and we grab some ditches or whatever we come back from, that's a parole violation, two, two, not until someone feels it, but what I'm saying is come out okay if there's shale in the ground, yes and It happened to the police that harassed you while you are in that place because she will have an empty shell that has already been fired with a gun that can rape you, that could send you, that could be a new charge, that is a madness and the The thing is like I think we're in a space now where we're just listening to how people react in an audience where I have sir, and this is what happens when we're not aware and for years we didn't have a platform to speak about how a lot of us end up back in prison, or how a lot of us end up on probation for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, you know, and even when Meek Mill is going through his thing, it was very interesting to watch.

The social media thing, well, maybe I should have been popping the Willie, you know what I mean? I'm saying maybe I should have been doing this as if we were so ridiculous in our assessment of what's happening to our people, and I believe that now. We're in a space where we wanted to challenge those ideas, but that man should never have been on probation for so long for something that happened when he was a child. He definitely should not have been taken back to prison for something that is a minor incident in the world. of everyday life, you know, I mean, but until we take responsibility and communicate our stories and like owning ours, we will continue to see our people suffer with this psychopath for the civil ISM inside and outside Prison, I mean.

Speaking of knowing me, okay, not to mention the arresting officers have already been like, you know, their testimonies in several other cases had been McDonough in court because they've been proven to be dirty cops, okay, so yeah This, if he is on parole for a In the event that the evidence was shown by this officer, it has already been shown that this officer is a bad apple, how can you still hold this man to this particular sentence that came of this rotten apple? So I think the Medicaid meat was an atrocity. in every way, I'm glad, so how have you learned about individual prison, since I gave you a different perspective on what should be done regarding prison reform?

I keep referring to you, it should be a way for ten plus to be the experts. So I think for me, you know, when I went to prison, I was like any other brother in the neighborhood. He was still angry. He was bitter. He didn't want to take any responsibility. I literally got into a lot of trouble. my first year they sent me to maximum security i served 20 years in maximum security prison well i caught another case in the joint eight years it's my car the stretch marks didn't beat the officer almost to death i ended up serving four and a half years in solitary confinement and when I started to awaken some of our true purpose, my true sense of being, I asked wise mentors who gave me books and they actually tricked me with books, so they started giving me like a thin iceberg and you know, Donald Goines books about Pimps, Whores and Street, they knew those books were out of print and then they gave me Malcolm some years. to get there, but what I discovered for myself, so I started a company while I was in prison.

I published my first book from prison. 2008 I was sued by the Department of Corrections for the cost of my incarceration once they said they should have done something. money from the book and they detailed how much it costs per day to keep me in prison, right, and yes, they sue, so they sue me for like a million dollars while you're in prison, I'm in prison, sir, have mercy, white people, something . otherwise, yeah, but look, I remember seeing the detailed day-by-day costume about incarceration and I was saying this is what they've reduced in my life to $150 a day here, 49 dollars in this prison and then I had a Un officer came to my door one day and was a babbling idiot and I told myself who the real idiot was.

Are. He tells me when I can eat. He tells me when to go to bed. He controls every aspect of my life. intellectually inferior to me and I decided that he would never be in the position where someone who was intellectually inferior to me could control my life. Wow Wow, so when I got out of prison I wanted to make sure that other young brothers that I was growing up in my community, I wasn't repeating that process and I want college wars. I talked on every platform about Oprah's tears, but it's because I understand the threat there that these were men who overcame levels of trauma that we didn't.

I don't talk in our community about PTSD that we don't talk about in our community and these brothers and sisters are redeemable and I know if I could change, brother, I would literally catch 25 to 30 bad guys in prison like I'm breaking them out. I led the joint and I knew that if there was hope for me, there had to be hope for those other brothers and sisters and it's my responsibility to make sure we don't forget about them, so that's what keeps me going, brother. I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting, as always, to say that you know, the brothers in the neighborhood suffered so much trauma and so much pain with so much pain that they didn't deal with and we ended up redistributing that pain to other people, so who helped you deal with your trauma in the prisons where? you stopped distributing that pain on other people, you know it again for me, it was dementia, the real thing, oh boy, right, these were brothers that will never get out of prison, man, these brothers are going to die in prison unless we change those systems, you know and I remember thatThey said, "Come on, get together like this.

I want to hear that you like that one day you'll turn out okay." I mean, like a real conversation. Right now I'm 19 years old and I'm trying to Look down, 20 years later, I couldn't see freedom, but they had the wisdom to know that at some point you will have that opportunity and that you will return to our community and I didn't even think. about this and they understood that I am going to be a neighbor to their mothers, I am going to be a neighbor to their children and that they wanted to send me home healthy and whole so that I could make sure that other brothers were not violating the community, so those my brothers who I resort you don't name them and I'll say this last thing, man, what friendship is about, people often ask me about, you know, why I go back, why I go back, I grew up with them. catch the man since he was a kid and I'll give you a real cat like you don't forget your boys you know what I'm saying and right now on my jpay on my phone I write my dues you know?

I'm saying they call me, we vibrate like brothers, you know what I'm saying and that's what keeps me strong to keep going and of course, you know, looking at these young brothers and sisters here we have to be an example for them, right? You know? on the joint tip like they treated you different because you were a celebrity did you have a different level of protrusion? be different everywhere and it has nothing to do with the celebrity it was like that before you realized so I think that the spirit or the aura that you exude, lady, contributed to me now reaping the benefits of my celebrity, but now I mean, I think I mean it, I was treated differently either way, you know what I'm saying, or for one thing, you know the racist from Arkansas because you already know. saying they want this just look, you know, the only little authority they ever had and I used to tell them all the time, you know, they say they're coming, some say, your pants pressed, Harris and I say, man, my pants aren't pretty , that's how they.

Pay you here to make that man walk and look at people pants, that's what you hear, pants look at your shirt, it's not hard, Dan Harris, you can't even bring your own house, right, right? , you come here trying to control us. I can't even rent your old house, you're all women, probably somewhere doing God knows what, yeah, I have no idea you hated me, you were ready to get me out of those fangs, so what perspective did that give you as far as what to do? As for prison reform, first of all, what it would have shown me is that MK ULTRA mind control human programming is real. the guys we consider crazy or mentally ill because they don't fit into the conformities of what society has programmed everyone else to know they're not programmed boy you did what I'm saying now you have two things you can be an unprogrammed bull and rebel and rebel against the entire machine and against the entire collective of the program or you can accept it understand from the inside that it is a program develop a new software so that you can reprogram the program we understand it but we cannot do that by criticizing Those who are not programmed, boo , you did it right by saying, "we have to give them something they can subscribe to because they're not wrong for not wanting to conform to this sheet because it's not right and they feel like it's not right." and there's something about them that's just giving a man hell, no, you know what I'm saying, it's like she tried to saddle a style that you tried, you still say it's not that this is a bad horse, the horse doesn't it is bad.

It just hasn't been programmed, they don't have anyone on their back and I think that's what prison taught me those control moves and it also taught me that we were being programmed from prison, from school, yes, from school to Prison Pipeline, we will schedule. for school prison when they teach you to go to this class right now don't get caught in the hallway move when the bell rings ISS all that sir have mercy how did she do? they did everything but the suspension, you know, I'm saying They didn't send me home on any day, but I'm just saying like this, that's like a pro when I saw those control moods when the doorbell rang and sometimes I need to move, just walk out onto the small porch in front of me. unity and it seems damn, you know, every time we go to the club and the club bench, it's not like, man, you worry about it, I'm like that, damn, everyone, I found everyone and then no, it's possible that you have ever seen between 2,500 and 3,000.

Black me and coming or going at the same time and she crazy, looked like gazelles on the Serengeti descending, just look at this, she'd be like, damn, this year is indescribable, but she taught me that all the things we did Through all We think of things as being random or meaningless, but all of this happens with a purpose and what you put in your mind, what you tell yourself. I think partial part of mental health is self-talk, oh absolutely, the things you tell yourself. So why do people say I'm arrogant, but you know I'm saying I love myself more than anyone else?

Can't you know? And if I don't believe this, why should you? Yes, you should constantly keep telling yourself how great you are. that's your world I see well the world is going to tell you I'm a man they're wrong we're right let's get into that let's get into that we've touched on it a little let's get into the mental health aspect because we talked about the first step back and for me that's like legislation, you know, bringing people home is great, but what happens when these people come home, you know, I'm saying how can we? How does mental health education play a role in the rehabilitation process?

But. I don't think you can have a healthy reentry without talking about mental health, so there are moments when I think about everything I went through in prison, the indignity of entering a space that from the very moment they were arrested is aimed at dehumanize. The environment between you and Severinus is extremely volatile and being in this environment that keeps you away from information like my book is banned in many prisons because they don't want a role model for what it means to be healthy and whole after incarceration. in the hands of those who are trying to cure mm-hmm so that that book is banned in many prisons, so they would deny us information that was useful and you know the things that you go through there, you know that the humanization the beatings and, already You know, starving is like when I was in solitary because I was there for assaulting an officer, they were very punitive with me so I was intentionally quick during those days when they were trying to initiate you.

I know that I am sensitive, what they would do is like eat me to death or make up false accusations so that they penalize me even more in different ways so that I would have gone through all that and return to the society where I understood that these are things. that was deeply traumatic for me, just one of the experiences that I realized, so when I went out for the first time and the first time I was like sleeping in a real bed, I woke up and everything was like soaked and it was like As you know, I'm saying that having this office to have sex was because I was processing my body's trauma correctly and then there were other little things like the world had changed dramatically in the 20 years I was away. could you win at 19?

It came in 1938, well, 1991, so there is no Internet. Yeah, I went in where they had the big phone housed in the big phones in the good guys mafia first, that was before my first child. Yes, the good guys mafia didn't come. I was stealing. I was in a dive when that came up. I learned about all this music because whatever kid's name came up another day, so I missed that whole experience, but technology had advanced so much by the time I got home that it was like my mind... . blow, you know you like to talk on the phone and like this phone does all these things and cars talk now and you know all the different things are so mixed together, yeah, and drive, yeah man, park, bastards, okay, Yeah, but I think that's something.

We don't think about that because you have to have those things right, you can't even get a job without being able to use email, but you've been away for 20 years, how do you adapt to these things? So people don't really think about that and even families like families have such good intentions like when I got home my family wanted to drag me into everything well and I'm going to tell you like the first year I was home while I ate. It was wings and burgers because I would come in and read a menu and I would feel so overwhelmed by so many options, well it was like stressing out about not being like that, I didn't eat a burger, I mean, and it's also like a lot of these things I had to process gradually. to get them out of my system, so I think the important thing is that the people who have been through it come back before people go home and orient them and train them and prepare them for Real life here, you know, I think On the one hand, people have to worry, you know what I'm saying.

I feel like the individual who came home one day has to worry and there has to be someone outside the system who is allowed to. access to these people to talk to him when he was in prison. I taught a class called thinking outside the box and that class was basically about identifying talents that landed us in prison, honing those skills and using them for legitimate purposes, like drug dealers and an entrepreneur, a Jersey definitely, an entrepreneur definitely and how apply those skills through legitimate means and reap the benefits which, on the other hand, was like a class I taught, but when I look back since I attended, I don't know who.

If not, teach it, you know, it's a curriculum I prepared myself, thank you, so isn't it something we should push to go to prison for? Shouldn't we push for these brothers to have therapists and counselors in prison? Yeah, I mean, I think it's extremely important, I'm sure there was one more part that I want to point out about people coming home, the dating thing, the right date, the dates, the dates with the lady, no, It's a real thing, you know Dean, a single Dana, so anyone knows someone is coming home to Dina. single, here's an interesting version, so I got out of prison and you know I'm super mature.

I came home and I was in a relationship and I thought I was ready for a real relationship and the reality is I didn't know anything about a relationship because I got into it as a kid, now I was a stray cat, so I had been dealing with fast money, fast cars , fast girls, but that wasn't a transactional relationship, so when I came home and got into this relationship like I didn't know about PMS, I thought it was something my mom made up, even though it was true, but there were things that I didn't understand about relating in a really mature way, but I also didn't understand relationship trauma because I hadn't had that experience of being traumatized in the relationship, yeah, so my model says I can't date, it's so lovely and you know how people are like you to check that credit.

I say you see a therapist like that. It's very important, but the thing is that our sisters, and I give them a lot of credit because they do it, that's up to the brothers when they're on their way home, yeah, and they get into these relationships and then they get disappointed, they get heartbroken when a guy comes home and I realize he's not capable of having a relationship, so I would say one of the things we have to codify is to make sure that the men and women on the inside actually know how to relate not just as an intimate relationship but as a family relationship.

It was difficult. for me to adjust to my family because some of them had basically forgotten I existed while I was in prison. Oh, and when I came home it would be interesting for them to say, "Oh my God, we miss you so much." I was there for 19 years, you haven't come to see me at all, you know me and that's why we don't talk about that kind of anger that people come home with their animosity in that resentment and all of that is important as if Let's bring people go home healthy and whole, we have to deal with the whole person and all of these relationships really matter, so I'm a big advocate for that because part of your mental health is knowing that you have people that you can trust.

Speak and relate to me and the Spirit has moved me to say this in each of your layers, one of you has people who are locked up, they are not responding, although they are still human beings, they are still alive. You know I am. saying they still feed on human claims in action, you know what I'm saying, I got my best friend doing a life sentence count, he had been locked up since the man listens colder, think of the word they locked him up the last year. I got my record deal after the holidays, you know, here we collect and all those damn embargoes that we push trying to get to a point of prosperity that's been locked in since the first one since the year before I got my record deal, so all my career is I've been behind the wall calling and supporting on the phone, you know, I mean, and you know, and that's someone you know, doubt, it'sso like my brother is my brother here, I never forget him or turn my back on him, I just talked to be Jesus, in the morning, BG called me earlier today, you know, and a lot of people you know, I said we feel that now because you know, we all know that they ended the Instagrams and we put a hash tag and we say free as such, I mean, no I don't see that she does, well, some of them, but you know for the most part you wake up saying you know that they can't feel like you know what I'm saying so what should we give them more than just police station or get to five? when they call whoa now money helps money is good if some motherfucker sent you a hundred dollars a month for nineteen years whether they came to see you or not I mean but I think that's a big part and another thing .

It's how you look at things and how you process things, you say, it's something that made me pull out something I saw on Instagram and I'll read it to you, excuse me, it'll take about 30 seconds, do you think it applied to an unemployed man? For a position as a clerk in a very large company, the employer interviewed him and then did a test, he said he cleaned the floor, so he did it. The man said you're hired. The employer told the man. Give me your email address and I will send it to you. the app feels as good as when you save it the man responded i don't have a computer or an email address i'm sorry the employer said if you don't have an email you can't have the job he left the hopeless man didn't know what to do with With only ten dollars in his pocket he decided to go to the supermarket he bought a 10 kilogram box of tomatoes and sold the tomatoes door to door in less than two hours he did it and doubled his capital he replaced it three times he returned home with $60 the man realized Realizing that he could survive this way, he began to go earlier and earlier every day and return later and later.

Five years later, the man's company was one of the largest food retailers. He began to plan his family's future and decided to go to take out life insurance he called the life insurance broker he chose a protection plan when the conversation concluded the broker asked him for his email the man responded I don't have an email the broker responded Curiously you don't have an email and yet you have managed to build an empire. Can you imagine what position you could have if you had an email, the man said yes, an office worker, so the greenhorn he learned was absolutely invaluable, so we acted like you didn't have all the tools you need, you learned it on the fly because your way of thinking gave you the option of never saying never. -die winning by any means necessary all kinds of attitude and that's what it takes more than absolutely anything and that's what I try to model for the guys on the inside so when I know, I grew up on the streets hustling, bro, You already know how. to make money, you know, I mean, so I taught myself to write.

I published my own book, as I literally say to bread. I rushed from New York. I ran emergencies and a black marker store took that. I bought a thousand books while I was on the joint and when I got home the first thing I did when I left the parole office was sell a book in the parking lot. I have been selling books for almost ten years straight. I became a New York Times bestseller 26 years later. The day I was shot, one of my blogs, my current book has been translated into Chinese literally like a train, so imagine this was ten years ago.

I was in the joint, my book is translated into Chinese. Oprah Winfrey took a photo while she was reading my book. jet interviewed me at his home five years I thought I was incarcerated spoke at a conference four years after I was comfortably incarcerated he taught at the University of Michigan for three semesters a class I started when I got home I was an MIT Media Lab scholar Sarah, winner Kellogg's fellow University of Manchester innovator of the year award is back so that's what I'm sending to my guys so they can see everything I said I was going to do if you know the ideas of everyone I'm going to to obtain. real estate I'm going to get out of here you have to start doing it right here with us I think they projected their fears and their failures onto you they absolutely feel that when they get out they're not going to shoot one of my best friends to this day he turned 24 for a crime he didn't commit he's home now he used to walk with his brother every day I said brother one day Oprah will read one of my books one day she will read one of my books I used to walk and talk and he just listened to me he never got tired he never got tired I stopped listening he was always like man you're right bro you're going to make it happen right and I want to say this like a publicist did I didn't send her my book it wasn't even a fantasy the model you have now is not the book she bought .

Oprah got the book. I was selling the trunk because I was relentless with my hustle and innovation and thinking of ways. to get my book into people's hands and so on, haven't you stepped into a car wash? You know I can't give you all the jewelry brother. I review the story behind the scenes. I'll tell you he's dating. but I say saying this is that brothers and sisters didn't need to see models or what is possible and we can't wait for people to give us opportunities, sometimes you have to take advantage of opportunities, you create your own destiny.

I have shown them to each one and they wonder. I don't care what your circumstances are. I don't care how bad you think you have it. I don't care what your excuses are. Remember that there is someone somewhere with the same amount of problems as you. have or worse than one absolutely, they took the same thing you made excuses about and found a way to win with it, yeah I mean you control your own destiny, what the managers described to me was the law of attraction, damn That is, they headed towards success. but just like him, as if he set himself on a path to success, many of us set ourselves up for failure because of the way we speak.

I said, man, I can't do that and it never happened. Manheim poster, man, what do you think? I feel Amanda, I see you, you beat yourself so you don't have to be defeated, you already beat yourself, so I think the first thing is self-talk, positive affirmations and education, educational opportunities and experiences. are the only thing that separates any of us from anywhere in the world education opportunities and experiences advice just gave you some tools on how to stay mentally healthy before you get to the audience Q&A I want to ask you both what you did to stay mentally healthy a time everyone got out of prison, so for me, stay on the ground and you know, stay focused on what I knew, my intentions were right, have friends behind me that trusted me, you know they needed someone who could win, there were so many . guys who had come out before me and were talking about setting an example and they fell into the same trap of putting people back in prison, and I used to be hypercritical of them, but since I understand how easy it is now I think about that different way, but that motivated me, you know, I'm a father now, I have an amazing seven-year-old son, I mean, I was a father before I went to prison, I had the opportunity to raise my two oldest children, but I'm a father of this Beautiful, beautiful. black boy and knowing that I have a chance and imparting the kind of wisdom, the kind of love that allowed him to make different decisions like that, that keeps me on the right path, like I do, I affirm to my son every night, literally, every night, you know, before he leaves. to bed no matter where in the world he is so that inspires me and I think the other part was when you understand so it's law of attraction advice.

I started journaling when I was in solitary because I was like, you know, I dreamed of being a doctor, I was on a real scholarship, but my life still ended up being in the prison cell, so I started getting real with myself and I wrote. every time I got angry and what was my correct reaction so one time my neighbor and my loner cut off my cell phone light so I turned it on I couldn't get to it so I wrote I left I sank this throw it around the gallery I'm saying so they could stay playing my power or whatever is right and I wrote in my honest feelings of how I felt at that moment and then I went back and read it when I was calling and I read it like the diary of a madman and then at that point I knew there was something that attracted to my life that allowed me to think that that was a logical conclusion for this man's life and then I started to think, "Okay, if this is absolutely true in the negative, then it has to be absolutely true in the positive." and then I put the theory to the test, I wrote the war and I said, listen man, I said if the plan I've been in prison, one thing you know, I've always been honest, I was never going to follow your rules and then you might not like the fact that I didn't go on to lose, but you have to respect the fact that I was always honest and if you believe me when it comes to something negative, you have to believe me when it comes to something. positive and if you give me a chance and release me from solitary confinement, this is what I'm going to do with my life going forward and he really respected that because I basically explained to him that it's not about what you liked, what you feel, it's about just of what it is. the facts and, in fact, I am concerned that there has been a man of his word, you know, and since my friend is what you have, there is a new book coming out called what you do is who you are.

I have it in my bag, right? I'm actually reaching two chapters of that reading, the first ones haven't started, but imagine that even though you're right, yes, what you do is who you are, so in writing that practice of saying this is what I want to happen in my life, you know, and being consistent with analyzing and saying, okay, my actions line up with what I say or they don't, nothing that I grew up in the real street culture, the real one where your word was the only thing that mattered, period , you know what I'm saying, and that's why, for me, to be a man of my word and tell my guys look, this is what I'm going out to do and then I had to honor that brother, so that's what that's moving on, so they never did any therapy and none of that, still not. but actually yeah, I'm actually in the process of being okay there because what happens I'll talk to a lot of therapists and then I'll become that there because they like how you saw the sun.

This is how far I've gone. to therapy, right, I've been to therapy, but if in some pattern I'm not depressed in therapy, I'm not depressed because I have to, I go once a week, okay, but I'm fine, a relationship counselor, like Marriage counseling will really help me because I know, but I'm talking when I'm alone, even though I see that we're not when I tell the marriage counselor all the things she doesn't want to hear me say when it's just her and I talking and then when he Marry the lawyer says, well, he's right, look, I go around, you know, saying that, as far as I'm concerned, every time I sat down, what they did when they asked me a bunch of questions about me and then i answered the questions and then they take the answers to my questions and then they ask me what it could be.

I think that's the beauty of therapy. I think that when you go, yes, no, they don't dare to tell you what's happening to you, sometimes it's good to understand it. and as you talk and you find out for yourself, yeah, I think I could do that in my music, like you say, he wrote something, that's the form of therapy for him to act and sometimes, you know, I say a lot of you they know. things at least historically in music and when I listen to them like today if I'm going to hear pain if I'm going sir to see pain learn by the minute dirt if you're a man in America and you don't go back and listen to Things you used to say 15 or 20 years ago and sometimes cream, yeah, you haven't grown up, you didn't say them, but I mean, I think I have kids too, I had kids, man, I live and die by, do you know what I am?

I'm saying and I have to stay silent because I have to keep them silent, you know, I mean, and a lot of times, like I said, it's an internal dialogue, you know, saying, man, you're not crazy, straighten up, no, I'm saying That you already know. What's going on? Do what they tell you to do. Put it together. Take me 30 seconds. You know, what I'm saying is if when I'm not on parole or when you know when I'm off parole, I walk around and keep warm. a form of natural therapy from the earth God gave it to me to participate is I choose to take CBD every night for my anxiety but I will say something else another thing I want to say listen man, it came to me in a dream, I don't know what this means, came to me in a dream a while ago, I'm a chef.

I don't know if time travel is real, but if it was, I would be sent from the future to tell each and every one of you. that you're now free stop asking my dad to give you something you already have unless you give it away okay go ahead I'll ask some questions from the audience but you only have a couple of minutes left how can we get you more involved? in political processes so that they can help shape criminal justice reform through legislation. I think I think so. I think this is actually a great platform to get off to a good start because I mean, the realityIt's that information is consumed differently and they just need to know how.

It connects to their everyday life and I just don't think politicians translate it that well, so I always encourage similar artists to use their platforms and really talk about it because that's what the kid is going to hear and you also have to show them. how when you don't vote, how it affects the quality of your life, you know, man, yeah, I agree with what he said. I also want to point out that these are probably the most engaged young people who have ever been in my life, you know? What I'm saying is that I hear more people talking about politics in barbershops and well, they were just talking about basketball and wrestling girls, yeah, you know, what I'm saying, I think it's slowly evolving into a place of play where there is more participation, but me.

I think the best way is to promote Mayer's funds when it seemed like everything was going well. I basically told the truth about the candidate I was opposing, about what they were threatening, what our culture was, they want to close the studios they want. to close the clubs, they want to stop giving away liquor licenses, they want to take away strip club licenses, so if you're a stripper, DJ, promoter, club owner, valet parker or customer, that means something to you and if No I'm not going to lift your ass and take you to the vote because you don't deserve any culture.

I want to end with this question, this is from Allah Turner. I think it's a good question because it sums up a lot of who you were. Discussing Can tragedy be used to drive a better tomorrow? Can tragedy be used to drive a better tomorrow? Yes I think so. We have great examples of that. You know, Malcolm X transformed the tragic situation and became one of the most prolific intellectuals. and human rights defenders that we've met, you know, and you think about a lot of the men and women who go through incarceration and found themselves at the bottom and had to go through that process, you know, incredible things happen, you know, for me you know. , writing in a book is what it was all about, as if my legacy could have ended with my murder conviction and nothing more, and I could take that experience and turn to something that prevents the gun violence that people are actually talking about.

Trauma-informed care that helps people really understand what it means to deal with PTSD and all of these disorders in a conversation where we've been able to change that doesn't bring the person back to life. it doesn't return them to their family, but it also helps prevent other young people from making the same type of decisions and I think the more we talk about that part, it's also helpful like many others. Sometimes you know we talk about celebrating street culture like it is, you know I get it You know you're coming from hustling, we had to do what we had to do, but there's also the full circle aspect that we never got to, so we talk about the brothers who get trapped, come in and then we stop there.

I know the point of advice like we don't know how many people are holding on to their guys for 30 years, but also how those guys are holding on to their friends like I know where my room is. They write to me and I'm having a difficult day. and they like all of you to grow up like we depend on you, so that does something for me and keeps me on the right path, so really if we can close that circle, that's how you turn a tragedy into a triumph, I don't know. you can use tragedy, so if "The future will be better tomorrow yes, sir, only if you put it in the right machine.

You know, don't clap just yet." You know what I mean. Okay, but look carefully, so I'll explain. Fuel. Fuel. It's something interesting. because the fuel can be used as a liquid that will propel you forward faster or if you could use it to start more fire, I say, okay, so let's take the tragedy, we have a can, a tragedy, this fuel right here is okay, yeah we would pour this tragedy on a motorcycle she we could witness from here the future you didn't say where as if we had poured hers on a treadmill I don't give a damn how fast we run we won't go anywhere so if the tragedy is Use it if it's if it's put in the right machine, the bet is that the fuel is put in the right machine, so yes, it can, it can, it can fuel the future listen, I hope everyone learned something today, make some noise and shotgun make some noise. for a suggestion, can you say that your books, your books, are available, yes the book is available?

Follow me on the gram. I am all your books signed, are they absolutely my god? Advice, say it over the antenna. Shaka's books will guarantee you. Everything is a mess, I'll go combine advice, advice, goodbye.