Meet the Press NOW — April 26

if it's Friday the second and third Witnesses take the stand in former President Trump's hush money criminal trial as the Justice Department now awaits a Supreme Court ruling on Trump's claims of absolute immunity, plus hundreds arrested while Protests over Hamas war in Israel spread to dozens of college campuses as White House considers restricting military aid to IDF unit accused of serious human rights violations by Oct. 7 and President Biden speaks to surprise to athlete Howard Stern saying he's happy to debate former President Trump as the presumptive Republican nominee appears once again. rhetoric with wildest accusations against President Biden welcome to

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now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington at the end of a historic week for Donald Trump as a New York jury heard testimony in his secret money and Supreme Court criminal trial was hearing arguments about the scope of presidential immunity in New York prosecutors are now questioning the day's third witness Gary Pharaoh, who was a senior managing director of the bank Michael Cohen allegedly used to transfer money payments to Stormy Daniels in 2016 now this afternoon The jurors heard from former Trump aide R Graph that she is a long-time employee of the Trump organization who handled Trump's email on her calendar.

Graph testified that she had a vague memory of seeing adult film actress Stormmy Daniels in the reception area before Trump ran for president. Graph took the stand shortly after. After former national newspaper Inquirer editor David Pecker concluded his testimony, the trial's first witness testified for about four days about his so-called catch-and-kill strategy to bury embarrassing stories about Donald Trump, especially before the US election. 2016, speaking with ERS before today's testimony. The former president continued to attack the trial that has removed him from the electoral campaign and in a Manhattan court he also praised the Supreme Court after yesterday's arguments on his presidential immunity, he stated that the case is over, you heard what We said and the case should be over, but you will have to make that determination and yesterday I think in the Supreme Court that has to do with immunity I heard that the argument was brilliant.

I heard it last night. I thought it was really cool. I thought the judge's questions. they were great and all presidents have to have immunity this has nothing to do with me absolutely nothing all presidents have to have immunity so we have another day of court in a freezing court it's very cold there on purpose I think now as we reported yesterday Los Judges seemed skeptical of Trump's expansive interpretation of presidential immunity, but they may very well send the case back to the lower courts, virtually guaranteeing that former President Trump's hush money trial in New York will be the only criminal trial that he will face before election day.

For more, I'm joined by NBC News correspondent Raha Ellis outside the courthouse in Manhattan. Also with me is NBC News correspondent Dasha Burns and former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney Jeremy Su. Thank you all for being here, Raha, let me start with you. Prosecutors call former Trump aide to the stand. R Graph. ¿Why is it so important? Who is she and what is her strategy here? W Graph is a long-time employee of a Trump organization. She worked with him for 34 years. She rose to executive assistant with him. A gatekeeper of sorts, you could say, sat right outside her office on the 27th floor of Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue and testified to the fact that she was the one who kept records for him, particularly in terms of email, it was determined that Donald Trump didn't necessarily send an email, she would take care of that and I think what was significant was that she pointed out that she was the one who put into um Trump's computer system the name U and Stormmy's phone number in reference to Stormy.

She and Daniel also entered Karen McDougall's name, they entered not only the cell phone number but also Karen McDougall's address. He also mentioned that he saw that Stormy Daniels had a

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ing with Donald Trump, but the meeting was about his interest in having her as a possible U, someone who contributed to the trainee and that is significant because there has been a lot of talk about how much Donald Trump knew her, yes He didn't know her at all, of course, photos have been taken of him with her, but he has photos. She contacted many people, but she claimed that her name and number were actually in his contact list and she met him at the office.

Rahim Ellis through what sounds like a Heckler in the back of the forum, we really appreciate that thanks. Thank you so much, let me bring in Dasha Burns. We know that David Pecker of the National Inquirer also testified this week. Dasha, take us inside the Trump campaign, how do you feel about this first week that she's been inside a Manhattan courtroom? He's been on the campaign, he's trying to use all the court tricks to basically continue campaigning, what are they saying? Yes, and to that point, you'll notice that many of the times this week that he's addressed reporters outside of the courthouse, he's tried to send a message about what the campaign is looking for for him to send a message by talking about the economy. , talking about his record versus President Biden's.

Less grievance politics outside the Court this time, more focus on the Campaign because he's limited right now in how much he can go out and Biden has been trying to counterprogram and say, hey, look, I'm talking to voters while my opponent is in the court, so Trump is trying to change that a little bit, yeah, I mean, it was notable because Biden was in Florida this week talking about Reproductive Rights, obviously Democrats think it's an issue that's going to energize voters, right? When can we expect to see you again in the Trail Dash campaign? Is there any indication that he might be harmed by being out of the hole?

We'll see it next week. There was a little bit of debate about that because the judge had declared a hearing next Wednesday, but then it was moved to Thursday, so it goes to the Battleground states of Michigan and Wisconsin next week, both states. that he won in 16 lost in 2020 and is going to speak in accordance with his campaign about the economy and immigration and will again try to contrast those records. This is the first time we'll see him use one of those dark days. from court to going out, and campaigning last Wednesday, this Wednesday he was playing golf, so he will be talking to voters and he has been using this trial to agitate and rally the base that he has been sending. messages saying they could put me in jail, which of course we all think all the El experts think is very unlikely, but again I'm trying to stir people up that way, let me ask you Dasha about the immunity case because, um the Supreme Court obviously these This extraordinary historic day unfolded yesterday, where Trump's lawyers argued that he should have absolute immunity, that a president is entitled to absolute immunity, the justices were clearly very skeptical that according to everyone the indications, this will probably be sent back to a lower court, you and I have been talking about this for a long time, the Trump team's strategy has been to delay, delay, delay and in this case it seems to have worked, yes, no, that is exactly correct.

I mean, regardless of how the judges ultimately decide, it's inevitable that Trump will win because he delays, but his lawyers were actually questioned by the judges and they brought up a lot of you, you know, possible hypothetical examples that your lawyer was drawn to. was difficult to answer, at the same time, many of the conservative justices seemed to indicate that some limited scope of immunity might be something they are investigating. I was curious to see Trump talk about how amazing the arguments were that the justices were aware, he said that about the last time his lawyers were in front of the Supreme Court too, so there seems to be some sort of reference. about how the judges are conducting these very serious arguments and hearings that will not only affect the former president but potentially all executives in the future. absolutely presidents to come um fantastic stuff Jeremy let me turn to you let's talk about what I was talking about with rahima Ellis R graphic uh someone who was seen as former President Trump's gatekeeper what do you think about her being called to the stand?

What do you think the prosecution gets from hearing from her? She's kind of a dot connector, so to speak, and also the living Rolodex, because if the former president who was then running for office didn't keep these records, and we know that in large part because we heard David Pecker say that in I didn't actually have a deal and that we were checking on Michael Cohen, she kind of gives credence to that story that I was the person that was on those calls, sometimes I was the person that was handling the emails that came through. through me so she knows Stormmy Daniels so it connected because she was there it's connecting those dots and again it's that evidence that there's a paper trail and it's her so that's her value even if she It's really a defense.

Witness in the sense that she doesn't want to be there, but for the fact that she is being subpoenaed, let's talk about David Pecker's evidentiary testimony. One of the big revelations is that he argued with former President Trump while he was in the White House. an alleged hush money payment from him to Karen McDougall, um, what do you think of that and what do you think of his testimony in general? Is he a credible witness? How do you think he will be viewed by jurors? He knows it very briefly. It is about the element of knowledge and intention. because for Donald Trump, then if you're going to say I really don't know anything about an affair, I didn't have an affair, I don't know anything about hush money, I didn't make Michael Cohen do my bidding, Michael Cohen is making his own Rogue , it takes some weight to cash in on those sales overall.

I thought David Pecker was a very good witness for the prosecution. There were a couple of holes exposed in it about maybe not remembering all the details right. Maybe there was an upside to a botched investigation to gain access to the programs and information Donald Trump was providing and there was a cooperation agreement or non-prosecution agreement that potentially benefited the sale of the company, so there are some holes there, but without David Pecker there is no Michael Cohen Credibility without David Pecker there is no stormy Daniels credibility, which means that there is a lot to cross with them on the impeachment material and David Pecker is lifting them up to say hey, I don't know It's just about them.

I can confirm and corroborate some of these in this information. these stories, so he was an important witness and generally seemed like a normal guy, well, okay, let's talk about another potential witness, let's talk about my Cohen because he is widely seen as one of the prosecution's key witnesses, but also as a enormously complicated figure. Jeremy, what do you anticipate? We'll see if and when Michael Cohen takes the stand, um, I don't think it's if obviously it's when and I think it's going to be more of a circus, um, and I mean that in, you know, not in a frivolous but very sad way. , that's what you're going to see in a courtroom and outside of the courtroom.

I can only imagine what the former president does, but he's going to be the next level of dot-connectors because he's the one who's going to say he was getting this money and he was going to pay the money and Stormy Daniels was going to be silenced and the boss because you've heard that term many times the boss is the only Donald Trump, so you know, my big concern if I'm the prosecution, similar to what I would have if Donald Trump testified, is that Michael Cohen probably can't follow a script, maybe a little bit with the prosecutors, but as soon as the defense has it, who knows what they're going to do. say especially when he's doing it, you know, I don't know if it's a podcast, but whatever he's doing out there on social media, uh, there's a lot of things for him to get upset about with his truthfulness and his truthfulness, okay. , great, uh, the conversation starts with us.

Out Dasha and Jeremy and Rahima in advance I really appreciate it. I'm joined now by Tai Cob, who served as White House counsel during the Trump administration. Tai, it's so good to see you. I wish we could be together in person, but it's great to meet with You really appreciate you joining, it's wonderful to be with you and I don't get the chance to congratulate you on air for your gig on Meet the Press and I'm so proud of you, thank you Ty. I really appreciate it a lot. Well, we really are. It's an honor to have his opinion and let's start with the case in New York before we head to the Supreme Court.

What is your assessment of how former President Trump's lawyers are handling this case so far? We talk aboutDavid Pecker. We talked about the R chart. you both took the stand now, how do you think they're doing? I think they're doing well. I think pcker um frankly didn't accomplish the one thing he needed to accomplish. Keep in mind that your testimony was what you know the most. partly that he had an assumption that all of this was for the campaign it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that he had, he had direct evidence of that, um from time to time, did you know that he made his uh, introduction of his agreements ? and they were obviously written by the prosecutors with a view to being evidence in this case and um, I heard that uh there was a report that one of the jury lawyers thought it was a little strange when he had read it and made some facial gestures. uh gesticulations but you know it's penisIt was good, I mean, Pecker, it was that he was definitely the first correct witness because he spoke for four days and was basically able to lay out what the prosecution would like people to believe is the whole team and now he turns it into It's a little bit easier for Cohen to come in and you know, not testify for as long.

Stormy Daniels, a lot of other people come in and just take what is now the penis narrative and add the penis twist to it. Do you think the R chart, as Jeremy was just saying, helps connect the dots, since you're saying there were some dots that were disconnected? Did you connect the dots Ty uh r? I think R connected the dots and I think um and I. Think only because you know that there is a great fiction in this case, which is the theory that Trump did not have these two sexual relationships. I mean, he has harmed his lawyers by lying about how no one in America believes he didn't have these two.

He had sex, so they have to call R, who has, you know, who has Ken Moual in the office talking to him. I mean, why is that, yeah, yeah, yeah, he didn't do it and he didn't have a relationship with well and yeah. and of course I meant if he connected the dots, thanks for correcting me. Let's talk about Michael Cohen, since he was saying that he is an enormously complicated witness. How risky is it for the prosecution? If you were handling this case, could you put in? him on the stand, you don't have a choice, um, I mean, he's the person out there who was pleaded guilty, you know, uh, in essence, the crime that the prosecution is trying to tie to the misdemeanor minor record keeping um issues the charges for the 34 counts uh they're trying to tie that to a Campaign Finance um uh crime and Cohen pleaded guilty to one so they have to have it it's essential um but yeah, it's risky, I mean, he's, he's a smoothie, yeah I think if you looked smart in the dictionary his picture would probably be there it's very impossible to make him nice um and you know there's a lot to work with him in the taxi medallions the lies to Congress lies to almost everyone um and you know um on the other hand, you know he testified at the Ingaran trial and Ingaran said he told the truth.

How does Ingaran know? I'm not sure, but you know he at least found it amazing, so I suspect, like Jeremy said before. Um, Cohen gets a lot of help from the Pecker Evidence Foundation and I think he's going to get support over and over again from people who follow him. I don't think the jury will notice. the game of billing and payments and things like corroboration doesn't really corroborate anything. I mean, it's just evidence of how he got paid for this, but he certainly doesn't corroborate a campaign. Rape, then, and I guess the big question is, if you were representing Donald Trump, would you have him take the position?

He says he is willing to take the position. Would you advise him? No, no, Trump can't take the stand. I mean, and you know. I I I I don't know what the law attorneys are telling him, but if they're telling him anything other than that he needs new lawyers, let me ask them about the Supreme Court yesterday. Trump's lawyers argued that the president should have absolute immunity. The judges obviously seemed very skeptical do you think this will be sent to a lower court H where do you think they will end up on this? Well, I think we will definitely get it.

He will return at least to the appeals court. I suspect he will return. To Judge Chuin on the district court, uh, I'm not sure he needs to come down and back down and I think you know the frustration that Chief Justice Justice Roberts ex

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ed yesterday. Do you know the tautology of the DC circuit opinion? Know? Can he be prosecuted? Well, he's being prosecuted, so obviously the answer is yes, you know, that was the problem with the general opinion that they put out. I thought it was appropriate, frankly, I thought it was a good opinion. but they tried to say in that opinion that given the circumstances before them in that case with that defendant, you know there's no immunity and they didn't articulate a standard and the Supreme Court, you know, for better or worse, has to articulate a standard. , because there has to be a standard, this is the most consequential separation of powers case since Marbury v.

Madison and it is a very difficult case, as Jack Goldsmith, the Learned Hand professor of constitutional law at Harvard, pointed out in a very good U. uh article this is a difficult case this is a very difficult decision and trying to chart these waters is a very difficult task for the Supreme Court and they will have to do it right and of course they indicated that they believe that there should be some guardrails around prosecuting to a president, this is what John Dean said obviously, uh, former Nixon lawyer, he says that lawyers used to laugh when they heard Nixon's analysis during Frost Nixon, when the president does it, that means it's not illegal to listen to The Arguments before the Supreme Court today seem like the Republican justices are in complete agreement with Richard Nixon.

American democracy may be rapidly unraveling. What do you think of that about John Dean? I think it's stupid. And everything John Dean knows about criminal law he learned as a defendant. The reality is that I don't know what I was hearing yesterday, no one suggested that there would be absolute immunity, no one, not a single judge, not even Alo, you know who is probably the most right-leaning person, I thought, thoughtful, right-leaning person. right, on that, on that. bench, you know he started by making it clear that I don't think he needs you to know how to go that far in his argument uh and and Trump's lawyer quickly waived absolute immunity under withering scrutiny from Amy Comey Barrett. conservative uh who made it very clear that the conduct in this impeachment is private acts and she got him to admit it so I don't think there's much left of that argument and I think the theory is that these judges are going to make Trump is a Please, the only thing that benefits Trump here is the delay and this delay is largely due to how much is at stake for the country and for the Constitution.

So, none of these judges are going to do it. write an opinion or suggest in any way that Trump's absolute immunity argument is correct or that his impeachment sentencing theory Clause requiring impeachment and conviction before he can be prosecuted, but those are the two, those are the two legs you know of U's argument Mr. Sour and they won't even be mentioned in the opinion, the only thing SAU said yesterday that will be mentioned in the opinion is the multiple concessions he made about private acts, okay, thanks for your great analysis . I hope you come back and join us soon because there will be a lot to talk about in the coming weeks.

Hi sure Christen, nice to be with you darling, great to see you well, hundreds arrested, a canceled start and more. The fallout from the protest at universities across the country and US Secretary of State Anthony Blinkin discusses rising tensions at home as negotiations over a new ceasefire proposal take place in Israel . Stay with us, you're watching Meet the Press now, welcome back as We're following the growing tensions on college campuses and the dramatic scenes of protests in schools across the country over Hamas' war with Israel. We are also following developments on the ground in the Middle East.

An Egyptian delegation is in Israel today to discuss a new ceasefire proposal. As well as broader security issues in the region, an Israeli official told NBC News that the new proposal would include a temporary ceasefire in exchange for the release of 33 hostages, mainly women, children, the elderly and people with medical conditions, Now that number is notably lower than the proposed one. 40 hostages in the deal that was being discussed earlier this month at the time Hamas could not confirm that it had 40 hostages who met that criteria. According to us and Israeli officials, it is unclear how many of the hostages are still alive in Gaza today, while In China, Secretary of State Anthony Blinkin reiterated that the United States wants to see an end to the war and was asked about the growing protests on college campuses here at home in our own country.

It's a hallmark of our democracy that our citizens make known their views, their concerns, their, uh, their anger at any given time um and I think that reflects the uh the strength of the country the strength of democracy now those University demonstrations have spread to include camps on more than 30 campuses yesterday the University of Southern California announced it would cancel its main graduation ceremony citing safety concerns Join me now: NBC News guad Venegas at the University of Texas at Austin Antonia Hilton from NBC outside Columbia University and NBC's Julia Jester just returned to our DC office after being at GW University here in the nation's capital all day.

Julia, let me start with you and the situation at GW where things seemed very tense, what can you tell us well? Kristen, the protest outside the University quad has been growing steadily throughout the day, but the encampment that is now barricaded inside has been thinning out as the university continues to issue warnings to students who remain there now, the The scene was pretty peaceful all day even when the counter-protesters started to instigate some conflict and I talked to students there who said they were there to show solidarity with the people of Gaza and they said if you look throughout history the change began with students, it began in these universities.

I spoke to a student who was with Jewish Voice for Peace, she is Jewish, she was at the camp earlier today and this is what she said about what prompted her to take it. This action we have to disrupt everyday life because we need to see the end of the genocide, we need to see freedom for Palestine and that will not be achieved through non-destructive action, so we are really just here to disrupt normality and let people know. university administration that they can't continue, so she is among the many students at universities throughout the DC area and one sentiment I heard from many of them is that they would really like to see the focus returned. to the people of Gaza instead of the weather on these college campuses, they said that distracts from their message and that's their priority Kristen, okay, Julia Jester, thanks for rushing to give us that breaking information.

We really appreciate you being on top. Guad Venegas, let me talk to you about the latest thing you're up to and how tense things are there, uh Kristen, the dynamic here is different than other universities, we haven't had a camp here in Austin, what we did have is a climbing. That happened on Wednesday, that's when the first strike took place, a large number of students came in support of Palestine and the university says they were violating the rules. They also issued a statement from the president indicating that they had information that the organizers were following patterns.

They had seen in other parts of the country and they brought in state police. They were very criticized for bringing in the state police. That was a day when we saw more than 50 people arrested in the same place where I was standing. The next day they had another strike, another protest. , but the difference was that the police did not arrive to interrupt that and today what we have is a dialogue meeting, it is a very interesting meeting, it is led by members of the Faculty who have been here all day, they are giving away food and they have many Students essentially just walk by and talk about Palestine, this of course is in support of Palestine, but we also have students here who support Israel who are in the crowd.

Having that dialogue is very different from what we saw on Wednesday, different from what we saw on Thursday and what the Faculty members who have been organizing this tell me is that that is what they want, they want more dialogue between these students. and they want the university to allow them to do this, which is not what they did on Wednesday during that first walk. Very good, guad Vegas, thank you very much for the view from Austin Antonia. Let me address you and this awesome headline we said. at the top of this segment, which is graduation, the broader graduation is being canceled at USC, do you hear that other universities are Colombia, for example, considering that and how students are reacting?

Students ask exactly the same thing inthis moment. Kristen and we don't. I've heard a lot about the exact graduation plan, but when you walk onto campus and the reporters have a window every day, we can stand behind those doors and really see what's going on, you can see that they have some preparations for graduation ready to go. and then, as a On the split screen you can see a camp right on the grass where the students gather doing their homework eating all day in a space where the graduation will take place when I talk to the students what they tell me is what they are or what they feel are part of a unique generation, they missed their high school graduations, their first few years of college were very strange and often very virtual, so they feel that they have been affected by many things, from the pandemic to the war.

Then they told me that they hardly want to talk about themselves and that if they miss graduation they will be disappointed, but they are not even sure how to share that pain with the rest of the world. Kristen and I think it tells you a lot about what this generation has been through in recent years, boy, when you put it in that context Antonia, it really shows and underlines how much they've been through. We really appreciate it Antonia Hilton, thank you as always for your excellent report. Next time, the White House is considering restricting aid to part of the Israeli military, after determining that three IDF units were credibly involved in serious human rights violations against Palestinians in the West Bank, this was before the 7th October, we'll delve into all the details you're seeing.

Meet the press now. Can I tell you a fantasy? I would have if I don't know if you're going to debate your uh your opponent. I'm somewhere, I don't know when I'm happy to debate him, welcome back, that was President Biden talking to the radio host on Notorious shock jock. Howard Stern in a live interview this morning, the interview mainly focused on President Biden's biography and his life in politics and Stern started the conversation in friendly political territory for the president by talking about the administration's latest rule that requires for airlines to issue refunds for delayed flights and crackdowns. on hidden fees now comes amid a series of pro-consumer and worker-friendly policies that the White House is promoting and hopes will translate into votes in November, even as inflation shows few signs of letting up.

Join me now as I break this all down as NBC News White House Aaron Gilchrist Aon, NBC correspondent, it's a pleasure to see you, so he talks about how this interview came together. It's not often that President Biden sits down to talk with Howard Stern. Yes, you're absolutely right, you mentioned him as a shock jock, that's a label he's had for many years and it seems a little unusual that President Biden would sit down to have a conversation that we thought lasted about an hour with Howard Stern , but that happened and it's really consistent, I think Kristen with What we've been seeing in the Biden campaign, particularly over the last few months, the campaign has leaned toward this idea that you need to try to talk to people, to voters potentials in unconventional spaces, we've obviously seen a lot of ads. in the last few months of the campaign, but President Biden has attended a lot of smaller events, smaller gatherings with supporters, he's been able to do a bunch of interviews on local radio, some interviews on local television, and he's also done some interviews in Spanish. television interviews as well, so the campaign is really trying to tap into these spaces that may not have a potential for massive national footprint, but are spaces where the president can talk to specific groups of people at different times and try to paint a picture. a picture of what he's done and what he wants to do in the future and he hopes that gets people to the polls in November and helps bolster his chances of winning re-election Kristen, you know, Erin, that's interesting, you obviously made reference to the polls in In many polls, which are very close, we have seen former President Trump leading President Biden and that gap has been narrowing, of course, even in some battleground states, but there are actually some new reports that, privately, President Biden has been fairly confident about his chances in November. about those conversations, yes, three sources familiar with some of the president's comments told NBC News that President Biden privately expressed confidence that he will win in November, partly booed by the poll you suggested to the president, we have heard, he, him, we.

I've heard the president himself speak several times in recent weeks, particularly at campaign events, these smaller events, saying that polls have shown that in some polls he's leading more polls and that he's tied in other polls that he feels like Although progress is being made in our own NBC News poll, last week showing the president moving up a bit in the polls. We have also come to understand that the president is also booed by the fact. that so many campaign offices have opened across the country in recent weeks that so many employees have been hired, hundreds of them, and the president, according to some of these sources, has felt good about the fact that these little Las Dollar donations seem to be increasing, we know that he's had a war chest of almost $200 million that he's been able to use to run this campaign, Kristen, yes, there's no doubt about that and he's been kicking off the campaign at a more robust pace.

We say, let me move on to a very different topic. Aon, I want to ask you about this US assessment that three IDF battalions were credibly implicated in human rights violations in the West Bank. This happened before October 7, but what is the White House saying and how? Could this affect military aid? Honestly, the White House is saying let's talk to the State Department and to that end, our team at the State Department has been able to learn, as you pointed out to Christen, that there are three Israeli battalions that were involved in these uh. human rights violations against Palestinians in the West Bank prior to October 7 and that the State Department has been reviewing some of these activities and has also been reviewing what the Israelis have been doing and planning what they plan to do. in terms of remedying some of the concerns that the United States has raised and as a result of that military aid will continue to flow to these two parties to two of the three IDF battalions that were referenced here and the third is still being reviewed.

National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan was asked about this at the White House earlier this week and said President Biden would not intervene, would not get involved in what he described as a State Department analysis with a result of the Department of State, so the Anyway, the position of the White House right now seems to be that they are going to let the career diplomats, the career people at the State Department, continue with their analysis and, in Ultimately, make the decision about what results result and how they are obtained. Israeli battalions could be affected Christen, okay Aaron Gilchrist Aaron, thank you very much for your excellent reporting covering all the angles for us after new NBC News poll numbers on what voters say are the biggest signs of alert from President Biden and former President Trump. breaks down what you're seeing Meet the press now welcome back, we've got some new numbers from our NBC News poll this time on President Biden and former President Trump's biggest weaknesses in the eyes of voters 23% said the most compelling reason to vote against President Biden his concerns about his physical and mental health which outweighed the situation at the border and inflation during his presidency, as for former President Trump, 20% said his ongoing criminal and civil trials are the most compelling reasons to vote against him, followed by His stance on abortion and his desire to pardon those convicted for their role on January 6 joining me now on set: Daniela Díaz, Congressional reporter for Politico Simone Sanders Towns is a former senior advisor to Vice President Harrison, co-host of Weekends on MSNBC. and Republican strategist Garrett Ventry.

Thank you very much to all. I appreciate you being here. Daniel, what do you think of these numbers and the most compelling reason to vote against Trump? Their legal entanglements. The most compelling reason to vote against Biden is his age, it didn't surprise me at all, I don't know about you, it's been the recurring theme of this entire campaign season, Biden's age, Trump's accusations, these are the topics we will follow seeing before November and me. Don't expect it to change if the new cycle doesn't change. I don't think anything is going to be different. Simone, court cases have been greatly delayed.

Obviously, the New York hush money trial is underway, but when age is intractable. For President Biden, what do you think of those numbers? Look, I was thinking about this this morning because obviously the last election Joe Biden was also older, so he was also the oldest person in that last election in the Democratic field and for some reason. It wasn't a topic of conversation in 2020 in a way that it is a topic of conversation in 2024 and I know some of my former colleagues in the White House like to say that the media is making this up, but I will say that the issue of age is something I hear from my cousins ​​years like last year and I think it's because everyone in the presidency ages you, if you look at pictures, I mean, even President Obama when he started in 2008 to when he left office in more, many more degrees and he's young, so I think Joe Biden does these interviews like he needs to do them more candidly, but what he did with Howard Stern today is long so people can listen. and seeing the president interact with his own words and that makes a difference and I think that's what alleviates any concerns that voters may have.

It's fascinating that he did it. Howard Stern Garrett I want to release more poll numbers. This is from CNN 28%. of respondents in this particular poll say hush money payments to Trump should disqualify him from office now, if that's true, it's lower than the other cases. Look at that, but the other cases, of course, are again delayed, so what do you think of what's happening in New York? York, how harmful do you think it is? He is stuck in a New York City courtroom. He is not in the election campaign. Yeah, and that part is obviously extremely difficult because you're trying to visit the winery.

These are trying to have a rally in North Carolina. He rained on them. Obviously, the interesting thing about this is that it's the only time that if you had said 10 years ago that we were sitting on set, a guy would be accused of running for president, he would blow up a primary, wipe out everyone, and lead general election polls. right now 4644 in your recent poll in most of the polls you know in the swing states those things we've seen in the last few months he's winning we'd be like they're crazy but that's exactly what's happening right now and so he's obviously using this to boost his campaign here.

An interesting part is that essentially you see that 30% of people, 34% of people say you know we think he's being treated unfairly, other people say we think he's actually being treated too fairly and you have this middle point. On the ground it's like you know we're not really sure we're not paying attention. I think the most interesting part is that from 39 to 45% you've seen it increase where people are actually saying, uh, since last year, this is actually not a great deal in terms of his fitness for office, I think it's interesting and in the same survey 55% of people think that they cannot get a fair trial that benefits them and it is also notable because from a practical perspective it is out of the way.

He's been using Garrett while you're talking about the microphones outside the courthouse. I want to reproduce something he said this week that has received a lot of attention. Look, we are having protests everywhere. He was talking about Charlottesville. Charlottesville was a bit. peanut and it was nothing compared and the hate was not the kind of hate you have here this is a tremendous enemy we have a man who cannot talk about it because he does not understand it we should say Daniela from a perspective Regarding the impact on the country, many people would say that Charlottesville was anything but peanuts;

It was incredibly controversial, including the way Trump responded when he said that there seem to be nice people on both sides. just extraordinary and someone died in Charlottesville it's extraordinary that you brought that up in that context, what do you do with that, what is the implication that the entire Charlottesville context text was awhite supremacist rally? I mean, it's shocking to hear that you know a former president who I responded this way that surprised a lot of people in this country by saying that there are good people on both sides. I still remember that moment. I'm sure we all do.

I saw it live and I really think it's unfair. We compare that to what's happening with these university protests considering that you know that no one has died, you know that people have the right to protest for, I mean, for many reasons in this country. I found this very shocking, Garrett, do Republicans and Trump supporters do it? when they hear that it's something that makes them tear their hair out and go to what they know: stick to the economy, stick to the problems, yes, and I think you can point out that these protests that are happening on university campuses, some of the things that you're seeing that students have Hezbollah flags, that kind of ridiculous stuff, is what I'm saying: I think you can point out that as something vile and evil without having to compare it to something else that obviously wasn't.

It was also VI and evil um, I think what one rejects here on both sides. I think President Trump during that time made it very clear that he was not talking about white nationalists, he was not talking about neo-Nazis. he said we two sentences later we said we condemn them, that's not what we're talking about, he was talking about people who were protesting in a park because Robert El Park was being renamed, now listen, I'm from New York, I'm not a big fan of the boys. in the south, but that was the context, Simone, let me let you respond to that and also the fact that then-candidate Biden in 2020 launched his entire campaign in Charlotte, so it seems like I think Donald Trump has called out the proud boys .

I don't know what the man believes, but I think he regularly aligns himself with some of the most vile factions in his It's not even the Republican Party, just vile factions in our country when it comes to white nationalists, white supremacists. L, we forget the dinners he had at Mar Lago not only last year, and I don't even want to talk about Kanye. so please, when it comes to President Biden, just he, he, he did it, he launched his campaign and frankly, I would say his 2024 campaign is really an extension of what he said he wanted to do in 2020 and why.

He got into the race for Resto, the store, the soul of this nation, what we're seeing on college campuses and all that. I really believe that many Republican elected officials, you know President Johnson and now President Trump, and there are others who want to. use the protest to make it crazy, if you will, for the Democrats and all that, but the president has spoken loud and clear, it's not like he's silent about them and there's a difference between what's happening at the university and what is happening currently. college campuses and outside agitators, that being said, the issue on the table is an issue that will not go away this summer and will not go away before November 2024, well, and you make such an important point because what we are seeing on college campuses underlines the reaction to what is happening in the Middle East and how tense the Controversial bill that will allow teachers to carry weapons at school.

We will have the details below. Meet the press. Welcome again. Tennessee's governor signed a controversial bill today to allow schools to arm teachers, after the state passed the bill. On Tuesday in the House of Representatives, despite intense protests inside and outside the House by gun control advocates, blood on the hand, blood on the hands, the bill now requires that those who carry weapons concealed fire fighters are trained and approved by school officials and law enforcement yesterday, Governor Lee called for the legislation. a tool to keep children safe I think we need to be very clear about what this law does.

You're right, districts have the option to choose the background investigation that is required, the training that is required, the district approval, the local law approval. enforcing this is an option and one I think is important for the District to consider now. It's worth noting that Tennessee is far from alone on this issue. More than half of the states in the country have laws that allow teachers to carry weapons on school grounds. to the Gord Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence join me now to learn more. Blaise Gainy is a political reporter for NPR's Nashville station. Thank you very much for joining me.

Governor Lee has now signed the bill, as we said, walk us through the details of the legislation. is there any requirement for school districts to arm their teachers no there are no requirements this is something school districts can choose to do as you said before the principal, school districts and local authorities have to sign a memorandum of understanding first and then the teacher after that has to go through a lot of training, about 40 hours of training, get a background check, a psychological exam and a gun permit, a lot of that all at your own expense, so so far some districts have already said they will not do so. allowing your teachers to carry guns on campus, well, those are important details, as we understand it, this legislation look, the backdrop to this is that it comes more than a year after six people were killed, including three students, in the Covenant School shooting, can you take us?

Within the community, how are those families reacting? How is the community at large reacting? Which is the answer? I mean, you heard it. In that clip, some of Covenant's parents, who have students going to the school, were there and singing blood on your hands. I think they really believe that this will make schools more dangerous and open up the possibility of schools being attacked. Now, obviously, on the other side of this are Republicans who believe that this will help schools be a deterrent so that people don't want to go there because they don't know if the teachers are armed or if the school resource officers may be there, so they are two sides of a different coin.

Gov. Bill Lee actually tried to say that some Covenant parents told him they loved their teachers. be well put together, it's just an incredibly emotional scene, just extraordinary, the reaction and the look, part of the uproar was about how this all played out in the chamber on Tuesday, explain to us how this played out and why Democratic lawmakers are so angry . Well, after the Covenant school shooting last year, this bill was already in action and they had stopped passing any bills last year, so I think a lot of people thought the problem was gone and then, When the session came back this year, the Senate passed it and the House was on hand to do it, a lot of people, you see, spoke out against the idea for weeks saying not to pay the bill and they still decided to pass it, although I want to say that You know, 300 people were there trying. to say don't do this um I think it goes against a lot of what parents and students wanted to happen well we'll continue to follow up and we really appreciate you joining us Blaise gy thank you so much CH Good to have you well we'll be back on Monday with more Meet the Press now and if it's Sunday it will be Meet the Press on your local NBC station.

I will have exclusive interviews with Senator Tim Kane and Ruby Bridges in addition to my one-on-one interview. with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, but before we go, we have a very important announcement, the best breaking news. My colleague, my friend and frequent host of this program. Garrett Hake welcomed a beautiful baby girl into his family. Hannah Allison Hake was born on April 18. six pounds the same and 19 and 2 long, she is just perfect, she is now home with her loving parents and her very excited older sister Laney, she is doing great, mom is doing great, everyone here at NBC News wishes the best for the new family for now and they send them all the love in the world during this incredibly special time and Hannah is just beautiful.

The news continues with Tom Costello replacing Hy Jackson right now. Thanks for watching. Stay up to date on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or follow us on social media. media