E. Jean Carroll 'thrilled' to finally hold Donald Trump to account for his lies

Miss Carroll's lawyer, Roberta Kaplan, says she and her client are weighing whether to file another defamation lawsuit against Donald Trump, this time over his new iterations of these

lies

on television immediately after the verdict for the first time since so. was elected president E. Gene Carroll and his lawyer Robbie Kaplan have shown in a court of law that Trump cannot tell

lies

with impunity. They have done it for the country. They were not the first to try, but they were the first to manage to retain Trump.

account

able to the American judicial system, the first time anyone has been able to do that since he was elected president, they've already done it, now they have to decide what to do next.

Joining us for the interview is Eugene Carroll and his attorney Roberta Kaplan. It's very nice to have you both here. Thank you. It's great to be here. Sorry, sorry, I kept you waiting during that whole thing about the attack in Virginia and the Durham report. I just want to stand up and give them a standing ovation I had realized that no one had done uh this thing that we are the first yeah it only now hit me when you said it yeah Robbie you did it we as a country are used to the idea Not just that politicians tell lies, right?

We are closer to the specific of Mr. Trump where he lies even about verifiable things and he lies in very hurtful ways that are designed to ruin people's lives and there are no consequences for it, all it does is benefit the cruelty Which makes him look stronger. Cruelty makes him seem more macho. Cruelty makes his audience adore him even more. You are the first people to have pierced that by using the legal system to say that you should be held

account

able for what you say. I wanted to ask you how it felt, but now you're realizing it for the first time.

Well, when the verdict came, yes, and the verdict came. I think we ascended to the roof, we did it and it was the happiest day of my life. In addition to having the happiest day of our lives, added uh, we were very proud to be Americans and see that democracy really works, so to put that on top of our happiness, Robbie was tight, see, this hand is three times Smaller than anything else, just squeeze. It was so difficult, it was exciting. I could feel it in my bones right down to my core puzzles and it was and I still have that feeling.

When you went over it again, I got excited again. Let me ask you about that question you posited there, um, I mean, it was you who made the Force liability and then you did it again, the defamation, calling him a liar, the exact same things that the jury found him responsible for. the day before he did it again the next day on National Television, is that just the way it has to be, do you think it could be actionable if you filed another lawsuit, it would work the same way, so it's definitely actionable and here cruelty will make him less rich, won't he get his way?

On another occasion, um, it's just that it's unprecedented that a person has been held liable for defamation and continues to commit defamation, so there aren't many cases where we can look for a manual on how to do it, but suffice it to say that we have many lawyers who are very busy investigating this and we are weighing all our options. You also have another live case from the time when he was president and he was saying the same false things about you, defaming you in the same way that The case is still making its way through the courts.

What is your expectation in terms of where it goes? to go there? You'll be hearing from us on that one very, very soon Rachel, what counts as very soon? I do not know how. late, people work tonight, two or three days at most. Wow, okay, but let's continue with that case. We got a very good decision from the D.C. Court of Appeals. which essentially affirms to Judge Kaplan that when the limit was when Trump said what he said. said about egene in 2019 that he was not acting as president, we are pretty sure that will be affirmed and then we can move forward with damages, in that case we don't even need to find liability because we already have and will be able to find damages and they are the damages for defamation are much greater because that was the first statement he made and that is what really destroyed his reputation as an advice columnist at L and all his readers and trusted people. her and I admired her in terms of the moment here after those statements that are still in dispute in this live case, since you mentioned that L fired you and yes, and you think that was related to his definition, let me ask you Eugene in En In terms of what happened, there were no cameras in the courtroom, but the whole country was following this word for word and we have the transcript and we know what his cross-examination in particular went and I think anyone with an ounce of empathy knows that they should It may have been very painful, but you must have known it was going to be painful and the first time you set out to try to have your day in court here, things went the way you thought if they were more difficult than you thought they would be or you were more prepared than you expected for how they were going to be.

As was? How did it match your expectations and how would you prepare? I was ignorant. He had never sued anyone. He had never sued anyone. I was even in a courtroom, I was still there, but Robbie Kaplan, who I heard say to someone you may know, uh, when the history of this era is written, there will be several chapters about Robin Kaplan, her and this brilliant team of lawyers. They had me so prepared. incredibly prepared I went in because I was so ignorant and trusting, uh, it was like being hit by a board when Mr. Takapina did my cross-examination, but he wasn't really doing it for me, he was doing it for the women in the country and I uh that that's all she slept very little you sleep in Luigi uh I understood that it was every day it was exciting um it's an incredible feeling to feel the waves across the country uh behind us and um the end when I told what happened they heard me They heard me in a federal court They heard me in federal court in front of a jury of my peers, they weighed the evidence and the truth was established and the system works.

It's amazing how this process worked after two weeks. I was surprised that it actually worked. and the reason it worked is Robbie Kaplan, it helps to have a good lawyer so that the system works well for you, but I mean I had a jury of nine, six men and three women on the jury, there's not once the things are fine. In the hands of the jury, you never know what each juror brings to those deliberations, what their hang-ups may be, their own experiences or biases, even though the process is designed to ensure that you have a freer jury.

Clearly, this is a ruling that shook the former president, the prospect of greater accountability in the future seems very unsettling to him. I think it's creating a kind of wave across the country of people who feel like they're speaking for a lot of people and not just yourself, but Robbie, you've made a lot of demands on this former president and you've been the spearhead of some of the legal responsibilities that he seems less able to handle and I wonder how that has changed your life. Well, he doesn't like me very much. that's for sure and it's a little obsessed with the fact that my firm and some of the lawyers I work with have other cases against them, but I think in terms of my life it's the same job if I'm suing Trump on behalf by Eugene Either we are suing the Charlottesville Nazis or we are suing someone else, the job is the same: litigate the facts before the marshal, present the evidence to convince a jury as we did in both cases and here we have the best plaintiff potential and potential client to tell their story to tell their truth and like we said in the like what we said in our team just let EG be Gene and she was and the jury loved her like they should have let me, let me ask you as a matter of The law and the defense here, this case has made me think about other people who have or may have defamation lawsuits against the former president himself.

People like Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss have sued some conservative media outlets and Rudy Giuliani for defamation. They haven't sued the president himself, but they arguably have the same kind of case to make against him. Do you think the success of this case not only encourages people who feel that accountability is

finally

being nailed to the truth? the wall and did not cause it to fall, but does it have the potential to change the legal landscape for other civil cases against Trump? I think so because he actually makes a very good libel defendant if he plans to sue for defamation because he lies.

He lies all the time out of habit, he lies about big things, he lies about small things and in this case we were able to show those lives not only about it being fake news, a hoax and a made-up story, but even when I showed him that famous photo in the that he mistook Eugene for Marla Maples when he realized he made the mistake and then said the photos were blurry, the photo wasn't blurry but it was classic Donald Trump and I think the jury really heard that I really absorbed it and That's why we got a verdict in two and a half hours.

This is why this is bigger. I'm sorry to put it in these terms because I feel like I'm a little bit like I'm releasing a movie about it or something, but you say it's a disadvantage that I lie so much. I feel like this is the first time I've heard that in seven years, the ability to lie without shame and without any type of complaint, without any type of remorse. In any case, even in the most important things, it has always seemed like a political superpower. You have turned it into the opposite by virtue of the judicial system.

These defamation laws revived. Donald Trump single-handedly. Eugene, let me ask you one last question. The last question I asked here, I was surprised by what you said about Trump's latest comments on CNN and I know you didn't see them live, which in some ways gives me great comfort, but you said that his words hurt people, do you use the plural there, it's not that hurt me or this is a way to hurt women you're talking about that. I'm surprised by your use of the word people there in the plural. What do you mean by that? Remember when he came.

I have seen it. now clips from CNN's town hall when he came on stage right after our huge victory and made jokes about sexual assault. I couldn't believe the pain I was causing thousands of people by joking about sexual assault and that's how it hurts people. that's how he hurts people and I would love for Robbie Kaplan to shut him up Eugene Carroll Robbie Kaplan thank you thank you Rachel thank you thank you it's good to see you both it's good to see you abroad