It's an important verdict for women out there who are suffering: Lawyer on E. Jean Carroll verdict

but we begin tonight's reading with another historic first for Donald Trump. Not only was Trump the first president to be impeached twice, not only is he the first former president to be impeached, but as of tonight he is now the first former president found responsible for sex crimes. abuse that was the jury's decision and the civil lawsuit for rape and defamation brought against Trump by writer E Gene Carroll, in addition to finding him responsible for sexual abuse and the injuries that came with it, the nine-member jury found him responsible for defaming Carol. After she went public with her accusations and did so with true malice, that liability comes with a $5 million price tag, it took the jury less than three hours to reach that decision after a two-week trial in which Trump He didn't show up.

After reading it in the courtroom, each juror confirmed that the decision was indeed unanimous. Carol and her attorney Roberta Kaplan did not answer questions outside court today, but Kaplan said we are very happy that around the same time Trump posted on his Twitter an imitation of I. I have no idea who this woman is. The

verdict

is a shame. A continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time. Carol later issued a statement that read in part: I filed this lawsuit against Donald Trump to clear my name and get my life back today. The world finally knows the truth.

This victory is not just for me but for every woman who has suffered because Trump didn't believe her. This is just the beginning of what could be a very difficult summer on the legal front. He still faces hush money. case filed by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, there is New York Attorney General Leticia James' ongoing civil suit alleging widespread fraud by Trump and his company, there is the DA's investigation of Fulton County, Bonnie Willis, on Trump's meddling in the 2020 presidential election in Georgia and, of course, the two The special counsel's investigations into January 6 and into Trump's mishandling of classified documents Joining me now are MSNBC producer and reporter Adam Reese, who was in the courtroom today when the

verdict

was read, as well as Cynthia Alsney, former federal prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst, and senior Tim O'Brien.

Bloomberg Executive Opinion Editor Adam, I'm going to talk to you first, you were in the courtroom, talk about the scene when the jury was read, what were the reactions of everyone involved, it was a little shocking how soon it came, Joy , but apparently there was not much to discuss, the evidence was overwhelming, in fact, during the jury, during the closing arguments, two of the jurors were asleep, one of them had his head on his chest, one of the

lawyer

s me He said that a sleeping jury is a condemned one. the evidence was truly damning and overwhelming against Mr.

Trump. You had the Access Hollywood tape that everyone has seen. You had the statement where he thinks he's dating Marla, but it's actually Gene. He says she is not my type. He says that, fortunately or unfortunately, she again simply went. incredibly damning, you didn't show up to trial, you didn't sit at the defense table, you didn't sit on the witness stand, and in fact, perhaps the jurors were insulted by the fact that you had the two previous bad acts. a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted on a plane years ago another People magazine reporter who claims she was sexually assaulted at Mar-A-Lago when she went to interview Trump and Melania Trump for a one-year anniversary article the evidence kept coming and back and forth Roberta Kaplan, Eugene Carroll's attorney, really laid out her case, uh, exactly right, they got lucky with the jury instructions, they got lucky with the verdict form, it worked in their favor coming out, both sides They spoke, there was a brief comment. from Roberta Kaplan said that we are very happy and then both Roberta and Eugene Carroll spoke Eugene said that this is a victory for all

women

, all the

women

who have been sexually assaulted and have not had their voices heard, she finally gets her voice back, so was.

She said she wasn't doing it for the money, she just wanted her reputation back and says that now she can move on from Mr. Trump. Mr. Takapina, who has avoided us all throughout the trial, spoke to us afterwards. they said they are obviously not happy, they will appeal for various reasons, they felt the Access Hollywood tape should not have been admitted, they felt anonymous juries should not have been allowed, he has defended many mobsters and even those trials, at least Lawyers know it. who are the jurors and that was not true in this case the nine jurors six men three women were rushed out just as they had been brought in and left every day they are anonymous they can remain anonymous and this was a great victory for Eugene Carroll and a devastating loss for Mr.

Trump Joy, would you please see the jurors? I mean, they're anonymous in the sense that you couldn't visibly see them when they were sitting there. No, we could see them. It was a mixed race jury again, six men three. Women, there were times, um, for example, when she took the stand, when Gene Carroll took the stand, they focused on her during cross-examination, they stayed focused on her, they never looked at Mr. Takapina during cross-examination and again I want to say that Roberta Kaplan The plaintiff's attorney, Eugene Carroll, laid out this case precisely as it should be and they won a great victory.

Cynthia, let me talk to you. Were you surprised how quickly this came back? I was surprised, you know, I tried a lot of sexual crimes. Cases can be very difficult, even when you think you have overwhelming evidence, it takes a while to analyze. I mean, there are some ugly arguments that have to happen in that jury room. I was surprised and pleasantly surprised because I think the victims really need it. I mean, I think you know in this post-fight world, when women are assaulted, there are all these women who have been assaulted and they just needed someone to say, "We think we're going to believe your fellow Americans." I believe you, I'm happy for Eugene Carroll.

I know she doesn't care about money, but I think it's really a more

important

verdict for all the women who are

suffering

and are still part of the silent generation and need something. validation and you said the quiet generation, do you think it's

important

that this is a woman who is 70 years old? For her generation of women, they didn't have a metoo movement right when she was at the age where this was happening to her. Do you think it's important that someone from this generation comes forward so many years later and the jury believed him? Do you know what I think it was?

However, it was like going back in time because Joe Tacapena took a playbook from her generation to attack her. You didn't scream, you didn't go to the police, you didn't go to that and I think we've had a really national discussion about women not screaming when someone puts their fingers inside their bodies. When they don't want it, no woman doesn't go to the police, no, and this Joe Tacapine approved all the reasons why they don't go to the police because they suffer abuse in public and Trump also showed it. He has opened up a discussion that is exciting to me as someone who has tried many sexual crime cases and I want victims to feel empowered.

I think it has been very good. It's going to be very difficult for the

lawyer

s after this or it will be more difficult for them. I tried using this Playbook from the 70s, one of the things that surprised me. I mean, this is a jury made up primarily of men, there were six men and three women, the women and we're 55, 62 and 64 years old, they were getting closer. For the age of the victim here, the men were 26 31 37 46 60 and one of unknown age was found guilty by a jury composed of twice as many men as women. Does that surprise you?

That does not surprise me. I mean, classically men make better jurors. In rape cases, it saddens me to tell you, yes, I think that's changing. It is illegal and inappropriate for a prosecutor to hit a person because of their gender. I grew up in that world and took it very seriously, but that's how it is. It's also true that in the past, a long time ago, in the early years of Eugene Carroll, you know, when we're going back in that era, women were tougher, but I think that's something that's changed over time and I feel good for that.

Also, Marcus, I want to ask you about the real thing, I guess, when the first read came out because we were all waiting for Adam to post each of these things and he's posting them, we're all watching it waiting to see what Adam is. I was going to post that he had all the power today in his hands um and one of the things I did when I saw that no, the first thing you wrote was no Adam and I was kind of like okay so they said no at the time. current. rape charge, well these are the three, uh, the three things that they had to deal with, so there's the rape charge, which I think everyone understands what forced sex is, you know it was unwanted, find abuse that jurors needed to believe. that Trump subjected Ms.

Carol to sexual contact by physical force, that is, touching the sexual or other intimate parts of another person and then the forced contact was the third option, which was squeezing, grabbing, pinching, rubbing or other contact body that involved the application of some level of pressure, for the intermittent sexual parts you are surprised that the one they chose of the three options was sexual abuse no and that is why I love the juries they listen very carefully yes and Lou is when bordering on Carol went to her first outcry, the woman's witness told Gene Carol, that's rape and this was something that an outraged witness told her yes, and there they were, they were very discriminatory regarding the evidence and that not only encourages me to who are listening, but also protects the case on appeal. that they've made that discriminatory judgment, so it's all good, Tim, let me bring you here, you've dealt with Donald Trump in court, where you won in terms of him lying to you in a statement or By not being honest in the statement Were you surprised by the verdict?

Can you somehow let his mind wander to Donald Trump's and wonder how he's really reacting? We know that he reacted on his fake social networks. verdict Joy, you know, I didn't know which path he would take. I was encouraged by the direction that it took, you know, moving forward just as a very eloquent explanation, you know, of the importance of this case, one of the other elements of it that What I think is really important is that the state of New York opened temporarily a window that allowed the statute of limitations to be included in cases like Eugene Carroll's and for women who have been sexually assaulted or raped.

It often takes them years to reach an agreement. with their trauma, the offense itself and just finding the courage to stand up to their abusers or their attackers and I think that's another important outcome of this case for women across the country and we can expect the courts to continue to evolve. In this direction, Trump feels ashamed at all, not people who are narcissistic and have damaged psyches, they do not feel ashamed. He will feel humiliated by that because he doesn't like being a loser and he just got defeated by two. women leading a case that put him in the loser category. um, he's also in favor of any of the other attorneys defending him in the Georgia case, the New York cases, or anything that comes out of the justice department.

It's a reminder that this guy is a ticking time bomb. in a statement he is the worst client you can imagine because he is a serial fabulous, he lies at will, he exaggerates, he is thin skinned, he wants to be the center of attention and you combine all those things in one person like they do in Donald. Trump and you have a nightmare client, thank you foreigner, thank you.