Watch Rachel Maddow Highlights: March 31

How is this by coincidence? The actual arraignment Tuesday afternoon is scheduled to take place in a courtroom on the 15th floor of the Criminal Court Building in lower Manhattan in New York City. It will be in a room in that Palace of Justice with a very specific type of residence. for former President Donald Trump because in 2021 Donald Trump's company was indicted on a large number of criminal fraud charges and that trial took place not only in the same court where Trump will be prosecuted, but also the trial of his organization, the judgment of your company. it took place literally in the same courtroom where we believe Trump will be impeached on Tuesday.

The same room and the same place in that trial. Trump's company was found guilty of, among other things, falsifying business records, which is at least supposedly one of the same charges that Trump himself will face in his criminal trial, which will again take place in exactly the same courtroom. It will be a trip to the past for the former president. On Tuesday he will enter that courtroom to face charges of falsifying business records where his own company was just convicted of falsifying business records just a few months ago. He will also look familiar to his lawyer.

Trump's lawyer in this case, Susan Nicholas, is the same lawyer who defended Trump's company in that criminal trial last year that didn't go well for the defense. there were convictions on all charges, but who knows, maybe it was a rehearsal for her, maybe Trump's first business fraud trial helped her prepare for Trump's upcoming fraud trial, what kind of defense should we expect to hear? against these types of charges? she suggested yesterday that we should wait for this trial based on the type of charges we think are going to be filed here. We should expect this trial to be very boring.

It's fair. What should we as the public pay attention to as this type of trial unfolds? Joining us now is a man who knows his name is Mark Agnifolo. He is a former Manhattan assistant district attorney. The same district attorney's office brought these charges against Trump. He is also a former federal prosecutor and has recently defended clients in court who have been charged. with falsification of business records, these same charges that we hope will be brought against Mr. Trump, uh, Mr. Agnifola, thank you so much for being here, I really appreciate it, oh, thank you for having me, Rachel, I really appreciate it too, so I am not a lawyer and I know that this will not be the case for Gwyneth Paltrow.

I know there won't be cameras in the courtroom and the United States will follow it that way, but for those of us and I think many Americans who are going to follow this case closely if we expect it to be a falsification of business records. The case, by definition, will be boring or difficult to follow, or is this the kind of thing that we lay observers will be able to understand, so the accusation itself is quite simple. There must be a business record that has been falsified for the trial to involve felony charges. There has to be a second intention to commit another crime, so the charges are pretty boring.

I don't know of any trial with Michael Cohen as Testifying is going to be very boring, but the charges are actually quite reduced. There's not much the district attorney's office has to prove. They have to prove that there was a business record, that it was false, and that there was a secondary relationship. intent to commit some other crime, they don't have to prove that another crime was committed or even attempted, just that there was an intent to do it hmm and to be clear, we don't know what the exact charges are that are reported on the number of charges there are some reports from the Associated Press about there being at least one felony charge among the but again, we don't know, we'll know for sure when we see the indictment unsealed, but in the absence of that specific charge information um what do you think we should wait if it's anything like what people are proposing or assuming there will be two dozen to three dozen charges, a small felony or a small number of felonies among a larger number of non-felony charges, what would be expected in terms of the type of timeline for a trial like this to unfold?

I've had quite a few of these trials, the district attorney's office brings these charges. All the time what I tend to see, I don't know if we're going to see this in this case, is that there will be an overall count of conspiracy or a scheme to defraud and then counts of individual false business records would be part and parcel of those larger counts. I don't know if that's what they're going to do here, they don't have to do that here, although it's unusual, in my experience, to see these fake business records without an overall analysis, you know. usually a felony, usually some type of theft scheme or scheme to defraud or some type of conspiracy and then the business record counts are part of those larger counts, so we'll all have to see, we're all speculating what that is.

Second offense, you know? Is it an electoral crime? It's something more? um and we just won't know until the indictment is opened. Mark, let me ask you about another aspect of this. I was surprised. The New York Times has a Justice correspondent. His name is Charlie Savage, he is very intelligent and I think he sees around the corner a lot of times. I've followed his work for a long time and one of the things he sort of argued and got some expert advice on. I received expert advice today at The Times was the idea that, although this is the first indictment against Donald Trump, there are a couple of other active criminal investigations that could result in criminal charges against him and other jurisdictions, including potentially at the federal level, and what Charlie Savage was suggesting in the Times is that Although this might be the first indictment in the way that New York courts work particularly around white-collar crimes like this, this might not be the first one that actually ends in court, in front of a jury, because he suggested that in New York. judicial system the courts are essentially set up to deal with a lot of pretrial appeals for a lot of pretrial motions, a lot of things that could delay the actual start of the trial and if Donald Trump finds himself federally indicted or indicted in Georgia, one of those things could get to trial first.

Do you think that seems like a fair argument given his experience in New York courts with charges like this? It is certainly possible. I'm referring to one of the features of New York State practice that What you don't have at the federal level are meaningful motions against the grand jury proceedings themselves. You don't really have that in federal court, so Trump's lawyer will be able to argue before Judge March and, hey, the evidence they presented. the grand jury is legally insufficient this indictment should be dismissed in the federal courts the grand jury is this Black Box that you can't see in the New York state courts, yes you do, so the practice of motions in court states is a little bit more A little bit more important, a little bit more complicated and, as a result, it's a longer motions schedule, so I would expect this trial to happen, you know, maybe within a year.

I think everyone will be

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ing it. I don't think George Marshand is. I'll want it to last, but a year is probably a safe assumption in terms of timeline. Federal cases very often come to trial sooner than that, sometimes six months, eight months, so if there's a federal impeachment of Trump in the next month, let's say. or two it is possible that that case will go to trial before this one. It has materially increased my amount of information about this and helped me understand it in a way I hadn't before. Thanks for that clarity. It is truly invaluable.

Mark Agniflo is a former Manhattan assistant district attorney, a former assistant U.S. attorney, someone who has handled these types of cases in these courts, uh sir, thank you very much for being here, you really help Rachel every time. There was disbelief at the Capitol, where most members of the House and Senate had turned out. We believe the vice president's claims that he had every intention of fighting the charges all along. We have a period of time in which there is political erosion. The trust and faith in the entire system has been questioned by many people now to have this kind of confirmation of the worst suspicions. that some people have had is really a very profound impact on the entire country and just think about it, I think he's a man of his word and I think everyone's been doing the same thing since I started voting and I think it's It's a shame, I think He is a great man.

I think it was very unnecessary. I'm just sick. I am very unhappy. I don't think it was necessary. I think it's a lot of political nonsense. Oh, I thought he was one of the greatest men this country has ever had. What is his reaction to his resignation? I think he's sad, you can see them out there with the flags on the roadway to Mar-A-Lago, right? he said. he was innocent and said it was a witch hunt he attacked the prosecutors one by one, protect them by name, he attacked the prosecutors, who he said we are hell-bent on destroying him for purely political reasons, he rallied his supporters to his defense he said no he would tolerate it said that even if he was accused he would not resign then he was accused he resigned he accepted a plea deal that forced him from public office but saved him from other serious legal consequences that was in front of him he still said he was innocent he still said he had been a political witch hunt his supporters were still shocked and angry and some points they couldn't even speak they didn't even have the words they were very upset and then we got over it and everyone I mean everyone forgot who Spiro Agnew is.

In later life he continued to claim that Nixon attempted to assassinate him. No one cared that he too became an anti-Semite. By contract, he got the Saudi royal family to do it. put him on the payroll to denounce the Jews in the United States that was his job later in life former vice president of the United States you think he could even become famous again for something like that but no, he ended up totally forgotten remember if that's how a criminal and a complainer about it, but above all he is not remembered at all and that is because at the end of the day, the prosecutors who investigated his crimes, who found the documents, who turned the witnesses, who obtained the testimony, those who presented everything to the The grand jury that obtained the indictment for those serious crimes against the vice president simply bowed their heads and followed the law, they were not scared or at least, if they were scared, they were not scared by the intimidation tactics.

They were absolutely used against them by members of the vice president's party who tried to derail the investigation with threats and hate mail that arrived in truckloads. They were not scared, they simply lowered their heads and continued. They built the case and made history. First I hope the nation feels that the Criminal Justice process is one they can trust and rely on. I hope you feel that the nation's interests have been put at stake. First of all, for anyone interested, this is Elliot Richardson, who is the attorney general of the US Department of Justice at the time this case was brought again against a vice president who was only a former vice president for about two minutes when he actually pleaded guilty.

Elliott Richardson was Attorney General the last time a former president or vice president was indicted in this country. I hope that, fundamentally, we all have confidence that our system really works. I think this is the most affirming aspect of all of that. In recent months there have been all the revelations, investigations and accusations that have exposed the shoddy side of the government and political process, but have also shown that the government and political process is capable of discovering these things and having discovered them taking appropriate measures. we are capable of uncovering these crimes all of these revelations these investigations these accusations have exposed the shoddy side of the political and governmental process but we are capable of uncovering these crimes and once uncovered our system is capable of taking appropriate action attorney general Elliot Richardson the Tuesday of next week at 2:15 p.m. m.

East, former President Donald Trump will be prosecuted in downtown Manhattan Criminal Court, at which time we expect the indictment against him to be revealed; That indictment supposedly includes more than two dozen charges, but who knows under seal we will know when it is unsealed and there is no reason to speculate about it before it arrives soon enough and while we have had a lot of experience accusing corrupt politicians of various kinds in This country, literally thousands of politicians have been indicted in In this country since our birth as a country we haven't done much for politicians who have been at the White House level, but we did 50 years ago.

Young prosecutors Ron Lateman Tim Baker Barney Skolnick did the case. of thevice president Sparrow Agnew without fear or favor, undeterred despite what Agnew tried to inflict on them despite the discomfort of Agnew's rabid conservative supporters, Ron, do you have any advice you can share? Any kind of lessons learned that you can share from your experience with Mr. Skolnick and Mr. Baker as young prosecutors working on this case when the vice president who had this incredibly supportive, angry, tough base that clung to every single one of them? his words and loved what he did, maybe even loved him more aggressively than Nixon experienced as president when he turned his Venom on you and your superiors in the justice department and they really put a lot of pressure on you.

I was wondering if I could do it through the TV screen tonight. you know the members of the Fulton County District Attorney's Office, the member of the New York District Attorney's Office, the member of the special counsel team at the Department of Justice in Washington, these other prosecutors facing charges or possible charges against Trump and the Venom guy that is bringing Bear against them, how did you guys hold up? How did you stay resilient and focused? Well, first of all, it would be presumptuous of me to teach all these prosecutors how to stink. eggs, they know how to do that, part of that was youth I guess, but part of that was really believing in our job, our job as defenders of the United States was to present a case to investigate a case, if the case was there to present it.

If it weren't for letting this stop and not continuing it, I vividly remember seeing Agnew on TV and my little apartment in Baltimore sitting there with my wife, while Agnew said, I won't quit if they invite me. I will not resign if they accuse me. saying terrible things about the three of us is noise and in any season the prosecutor knows it's noise, you put your head down, do your job like I'm sure you're doing and talk in court, that's it, everyone goes on Saying we are in uncharted territory and uncharted waters is not true, you and your colleagues, you charted these waters for us in many significant ways 50 years ago, in the country, we owe it to you and all of us, to remember how it sank, Ron Liebman. former assistant U.S. attorney for Maryland from 1972 to 1979, member of the prosecution team that brought Vice President Spiro Agnew to the end of his political history.

Ron, thank you for your time and expertise tonight. It's always good to see you. It's good to see you today too. It's Trans Visibility Day, a day to honor the contributions of trans people and recognize the discrimination they face in our country. President Biden marked the day today with a White House proclamation and the White House posted this quote online from him about Transgender Day of Visibility We want you to know that we see you as you are made in the image of God and worthy of dignity, respect and support will never stop working to create a world where you won't have to be brave just to be yourself but to Trans people in our country this year depend a lot on who controls the state government where you live in Minnesota.

Democrats control the House, state Senate, and governorship right now and are passing legislation to make Minnesota a haven for trans people. who travel there seeking, among other things, medical care in Nebraska. Democrats are in the minority there, but those Democrats have been using the power they have, even in the minority, to filibuster every bill. They are filibustering every bill in the legislature just to try to stop it. Republicans aren't going after trans kids and look, here's news tonight from Tennessee, another state where Republicans control the government in Tennessee. Republicans spent today waiting for their new drag ban to go into effect at midnight tonight.

Good timing guys, thanks to a Republican road bill like At 12 midnight tonight it was going to be illegal in Tennessee to hold a drag show anywhere a minor might be present, which of course, is anywhere that recidivism could land you in prison for up to six years, but we can report right now that Tennessee Republicans are I'm going to be waiting past midnight for that because tonight, since we're on the air, a federal judge has suspended that new law. Judge Thomas Parker is a Trump appointee, he wrote this in his ruling quote within our country's federal framework.

The laboratories of democracy that question the laws and policies enacted by the people, however, these experiments are not without restrictions. The United States Constitution, a law that is supreme even to the laws of the Tennessee General Assemblies, has placed some issues outside the reach of the democratic process. The first of these is freedom of speech if Tennessee wishes to exercise its police power to restrict speech that it considers obscene, it must do so within the limitations and framework of the US Constitution, this court believes that as the records here suggest that when the legislature passed this statute it did not comply Once again, Tennessee's drag ban was supposed to go into effect tonight at midnight, but will now be on hold while this federal legal challenge plays out overseas.