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Wagons don’t sell in America, but it’s the manufacturers’ fault. — Ep. 9

Jun 10, 2021
in the meadow we can build a snowman and pretend it's parson brown he'll say if you're married we say but you can do the job when you're in town this holiday like between you and mariah carey all i want for christmas is a new christmas song hello welcome to another episode of the karma gin show this is derrick tam - scott and i'm jason adam sandler discount shirt look how nice i was to you i didn't even call you anything i was implied talking about christmas songs i have a question do you think the Santa's sleigh was tricked it's true that the reindeer are in front so it would be coal do your steering wheel my neighbor I'm leaving my neighbor told me to jog this morning and I told her I was going to steal so I did and now you have overwhelmed so many other people with him burdened a nice gesture was i sing carols with you i give you a platform on which to be mean to me and you take advantage of it anyway so santa's sleigh takes me to two things that they contain things that take me to the


my neighbor who really wants an r6 what the husband does and she says he's crazy why are they working so hard i don't know what i have wants in an rs6 since the beginning of time and now that they're finally here i probably won't buy one because it's 130 grand you can ditch the gt3 and get and how always things well it's so much faster depreciation depreciates differently you know i think it's one of the best cars in the moment i was at the los angeles auto show last month it was one of the stars i mean everyone couldn't stop drooling over it and i really hope this is a sign that


are back in November 2000 three four when wagons tried to come back and how that didn't work that's when the e60 em so the e65 series what it won is the wagon is the 61 65 in any case so the 5 Series came back in a wagon six and the vag It's kind of like it's been and always will be here, but that's the only time it's not the last time they all tried to be here and then never came back.
wagons don t sell in america but it s the manufacturers fault ep 9
I feel like I feel like product planners for the US market. punto acura tsx wagon was really good it was a very nice car to drive but you know it was a thing it's a really good thing and the problem was the person in charge of product planning didn't understand who was the buyer of the wagon . It never seemed so, so they made it unavailable with navigation, stereo, and Xenon, and I remember having this meeting with a person like, what are you stupid? These are younger buyers who are great with just kids and don't want the minivans. that their grandparents had and the SUVs that their parents had and now they're making a decent amount of money and they want a $30,000 car and they want like navigation and tech and Bluetooth and all this stuff and they said like huh and the only me looking forward to the The only company that got it right was Volkswagen, which had a manual transmission diesel pickup and thus a Jetta Jetta pickup that became a Golf pickup, but how many of those sold a lot? diesel before that unfortunate incident where yeah that loud mess that has no name before dieselgate happened was something like 80% of Jetta wagon sales were diesel and 80% of them were manual so They hit the target market for diesel manual wagons and Anyone who buys a diesel manual wagon is a hero and I'm all for it but then what happened and BMW messed up the five series on the a6?
wagons don t sell in america but it s the manufacturers fault ep 9

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wagons don t sell in america but it s the manufacturers fault ep 9...

BMW ruined the 3 series by giving it only the small engine we had. a small engine never m-cars are ok have a manual long after '46 and no that's not true they are concerned 9328 and but the diesels were automatically ok and the sedan just ok and when you're looking at the VW case 80% a d 80% correct so they are moving away from that corn market and its not like its a hard thing you have the sedan with the correct transmission and the correct engine its very easy to check two boxes now a manual diesel would have been a different different situation but they only had a petrol automatic which in the case of the three series and the 328d f30 was available as a diesel correct diesel automatically yes correct correct so you had a petrol manual and a diesel automatic and that is minimizing you but i think i just didn't understand who would is the same reason so many auto companies mess up the fundamental issue of manual transmission, they have it in their heads that manual transmission buyers are pr Poor college ofers who are frugal and want to save money and that's why the European mindset is also that like everyone who can afford it selects an automatic in Europe manuals are a sign that oh it's An economy car, yes, and for a long time in the US. that was the case as well i mean if you think back to the early 1990s you didn't exist yet but you knew manual tercel was the quintessential poor college professors car and it was someone who was smart enough like to buy a good car and that Gi


e was a good transportation device, but you know, why would she have a slower vehicle that is more expensive to buy?
wagons don t sell in america but it s the manufacturers fault ep 9
More expensive to fuel and slower then need a new 120k transmission so was the thought. part of the poor thinking person's car and I think that segment of the population is gone one hundred percent now that no, it's not that they're dead but modern ones have money now not necessarily but modern automatics work as well or better than yes instrumented tests and therefore no reason for that. I feel like the product planning case for four wagons has been similarly misconstrued and Audi finally got it like they think it will


. is yes you do yes because i mean look at the sales of 63 i feel like mercedes bring it because they are stubborn and because they like the old mercedes bring it because the e-class wagon is the richest customer of any mercedes -Period of the Benz product E-wagon customers have more money than S class customers or Maybach customers G&G is the other Megabuck brand and this was years ago but I remember some stats like the average Dyn owner owns eight cars , TRUE?
wagons don t sell in america but it s the manufacturers fault ep 9
So this Mercedes is like waiting? These people are rich they are not they are not excuse me they are not rich they are rich they have real money and therefore only pennies the reason why if they have a good experience in your eClass they're going to have another Mercedes and they're going to buy a Mercedes for their kids and the housekeeper's and a Mercedes so I think that's a smart business move 6363 why not? because t $8,000 to make and make a huge amount of profit not to mention the fact that enthusiasts always lose their minds over the existence of that car and so it's like free marketing basically yes it is and where I think Mercedes, in quotes, went wrong in relation. to say where i should say let me turn it around and say what OD has done to the rs6 that Mercedes doesn't do is make the RS made the rs6 hot since it's pathetically fat aesthetically and it's not just like in e63 it's an e 350 with the big engine and the exhaust and whatever and a fascia and whatever else Audi is undeniably sex on wheels because it's got the same hatch and the same front doors but everything else everything that's different all the bulging fenders get they see as the business and that's what all of us wagon enthusiasts know about the fast I mean would I like it better if it had like the r8 v10 plus a manual of course but that's really nothing I made them laugh, but they already know that the car is amazing but I just think that this is my little sociology experiment here we are going to see if I am right it is that there is always a counterculture true there are always the days of the great American muscle car there was a guy that turned up to the racetrack in his little mg, you know, and they wanted small things and counterculture cars were always cool, they started with the beetle, I mean, and I think now we're at a point where everything on the road it's so big and tall.
I mean SUVs and crossovers, like Ford, who has said, oh, we're not going to make cars anymore. Sedans are dead. Done: We're almost to the point where kids these days who grew up on SUVs are now going to fantasize about something that's long and low, well yeah, dynamically superior and more economical and the right size for the problem is I'm having a bigger size is better and as we head towards electric vehicles correct range is the biggest concern right now as battery packs get bigger and bigger and things get more efficient that will be less of a problem, but at this point, the industry is moving towards electric.
Vehicles range is the most important thing for an electric vehicle and the biggest determinant of range is the battery pack and frontal area, so the size of the front of the car, a long low top wagon, is very dynamically superior to any type of crossover. SUV or anything tall and that's why Volkswagen just showed that long van concept in L.A. it's there it's there too I've got some silly name with a lot of Z's in it yeah Id cause this will be or something but it was an Id again that thing was it's like longer it's an inch longer than the US Posada which makes it three inches longer than the European Posada it's a long car but it has these great truck proportions and I think they did it for scope so we could on point or you could just project your own personal desires.
I just hope that's not the case at the time where you were like, okay boomer, whatever, also crossover or whatever, the Regal wagon, let's talk about wagons. that are for sale right now or have been recently the horrible cross and i'm sorry i agree the Buick Regal Tour X yes it's very eloquent or in it it's a very very attractive car it's a Buick Buick had sells three and a half cars a year in the united states where is the closest buick dealer to you i'm proud to say i don't know is the only thing i've ever asked you you don't really answer you know everything walking encyclopedia don't know where there are buick dealers would you really buy that car?
Also turbocharged four-cylinder with automatic reed. It is not a recipe for enthusiasts. It's not great food, but it's the same recipe as the Volvo v90. it's a spectacular course the a4 based on all rows the a6 based on all highways coming here to the usa and it will be a six cylinder available so that's exciting another wagon just oh there was another wagon beautiful, there's something for sale that ruined any of your chances. I don't know I wish we could just cut this video and come back when I remember what the hell I was talking about it wasn't European European I don't even know I'll think about it it will come back to me but there was there's another word there wagons that oh the Jaguar so this it's my favorite story it's XF it still is yes and have you ever seen one on a road i think i've seen a picture of one or maybe it was a rendering i drove one it was a press car.
I've never seen one on the road in the wild and I drove it back along with the Cornet the Buick Regal and it's good not their best driving cards and that Buick. actually held its own against this against this Jaguar but then I saw the sticker price on this car and I'm a wagon enthusiast through and through I'd take a wagon to an SUV any day of the week I have I've had wagons I still have them I would never have an SUV you would have to be crazy to buy this car seventy five thousand dollars for a nice jaguar wagon that was twice the price of the buick and had the same level of equipment and by the way was twenty thousand dollars more than the suv F pace which is the exact same components as when i can buy the suv for 50k or the truck for seventy five and by the way there are millions of suv's in stock everywhere and because they are sitting in lots dealers will bargain on them and then the actual price difference. is a factor of two, so would you pay double for the wagon?
I would tell you enough. Any of them despite each but I'm not spending seventy five thousand dollars on a midsize wagon and nobody else and this is what makes me so upset with these product planners is because they make these cars like the TSX is unbelievable they make them completely disgusting and unfeasible for customers and then Volkswagen just did it they killed there's four wagons and when I got lucky I was at the Jetta GLI launch actually and I was sitting next to one of the product planners and He says I just don't know what happened as soon as we launched Tiguan we can't sell a single sports truck as sports truck sales dropped to zero and I almost choked him like he was in the middle of dinner and I thought I'd grab his throat until I turn blue because earlier that day he had been looking for a friend and helping him buy a car and the nationally published incentive lease price he had ián at that time was 50%. more expensive to buy a golf van than to buy a taiwanand here's the thing $250 a month versus three hundred and seventy dollars a month I think that was a big price difference but the Tiguan has a third row of seats the table one has a two liter and it's an eight speed versus a six speed a 1 /4 I know you're getting a better bigger faster car with a better transmission better technology better everything not so good in build quality but in a golf wagon in Mexico and the advice is Mexico or Chattanooga but it's better it's better interior materials a little nicer car but i like who is going to buy the smallest less powerful car when for 40% less they can buy that and just thought this is a self fulfilling prophecy that is based on the idea that


ns don't like wagons which i think goes back to the early 90s this is thought of as early 90s and like all these people coming out of corona what are they? the ford grand marquis right we're driving marquis you get a mercury grand marquis and the oldsmobile cutlass with wood paneling on the side and that's the way it was kid my car hit the limits sorry i loved erica tam - scott's knowledge because you agree using brands and if they're in the same group they're in the same group but I'm racing for Lincoln Mercury mr.
The walking encyclopedia is like a box of American shit here, well, there's dust everywhere, yes, there was the Pontiac Parisien, I mean, there were all these different Vista Cruisers a little bit earlier, in any case, in the American psyche, there's this like wagon it was a dirty word and then of course when you get to the 90s and you have Mercedes 124 or 300 tes and hello 205,000 wagons and like I didn't know BMW hadn't started using wagons here yet and by course no one is buying them especially if it's 40 50 60 thousand dollars it was sixty fifty eight thousand dollars a lot of it a lot of that kind of those cars that are out there it's kind of cyclical true everyone in the 70's dads had a truck like the Brady Bunch trucks of all the kids piled up and then you know back in the '80s it was a minivan and I'm waiting for the SUV to finally time the clock because I'm not too convinced this is the dead body style right When it comes to drivers for sport applications I think it's like ok if you want a people mover it works but you'll notice in the past that Chrysler might have made a turbocharged version of the minivan but they never made a sport version and no one made sport versions of something that was supposed to be a town. moving SUV is the first time marketing people is like a lot of people buy this so let's make it sporty and you get stupid things like x5 m/s and Cayenne Turbo S is what I don't think we can you're like you're intrinsically compromised and it's a it's an internal self-contained argument we're going to take something that's wrong for performance and make a performance version so people can think they have something why don't people buy them they do and they pay a lot of money for large quantities people buy a lot of really bad cars in very large quantities that's true but I really think this wagon counterculture will happen I mean I've had my ether tea wagon for 17 and a half years what a w so attractive to a very small number of people back then, it now appeals to a much larger group of people, like the E 30s, which were just old cars and fast-forwarded nearly two decades later. he's and they're kind of, you know, the redwood poster child basically and I really think wagons will be part of that counterculture for kids who grew up in "really I mean I certainly feel that way it's also interesting how the performance wagons, it's not really a big deal, I mean you." re a 30 i guess that's the spiciest truck format you get in bmw bmw made an m5 truck in the early 90s an e30 for which they sold 891 ever in the usa get kind of a high option like engines real heavy like a Ford Galaxie you could get the NASCAR engine and you could do 83 of them you could in the 90's yeah in the 90's the buick was available with the impala SS engine which did epic wear yeah yeah but them, you can always get the big engine type bu I don't remember those being body on frame to frame trucks basically so most people thought I'd pick the big engine for towing because they could tow six thousand pounds yeah , was our aegis.
I don't know why they made my wagon outside, so you. I'm a Ragan learning ok I mean I think I'm hot with my e30 you win so you a 91 220 valve Quattro Avant 5 speed in Pearl jizz white as I call it yeah hello pearl white with this pearl white, it's beautiful, yes. it's like and it was so 80's and 90's too and the fact that I became a factory color because it started in the culture of tuned cars to have the pearl colors yeah pearl white was very early in the 80 like all those crazy like BB I was one of the Porsche tuners and like stroszek and all those crazy Koenig anyway and then Audi made it a factory color that's like oh that's like it had a day when it was In high school in Germany my dad had an 88 90 20 valve Quattro in pearl white and it was just the best looking car, yeah me too It's a 20 pound train itself descended from Trans Am and rally cars, which it's actually the same engine as my scirocco which is turbo yeah that car is so beautiful you know with the highest thing in the world was we broke down on the side of the road and you're beautiful in a wagon and i parked the scirocco next door and realizes look at this stupid sharafat 20 years I know of my life but this blew my mind I'd been looking at the Scirocco for years and you know, drooling over Audi wagons for years and I never realized they were the same shape and I mean of course they sold I think which was a car only a year old my Audi sold a hundred and thirty three in the usa only a hundred and Thirty three of the wicked turbo fixes to phone in 1991 you could only buy a 20 valve you could only buy the setup stock which was the hot setup with the manual and the big motor and before that there was 10 valve so you got like 50 more horsepower than then and the very year before that and I guess given the price they sold a hundred thirty and the fact that it was a wagon they sold a hundred and thirty and this is the last year for that but last year the body snowed so before you could get it with the non-turbo ten valve you get a right turbo 10 valve Quattro and I think maybe a transmission n automatic front wheel drive too or maybe i was a sedan only which in any case that was the only configuration you buy the wagon and in 91 so think if we think about it this way your 91 car is the rs6 because it's a 2012 , I mean yeah it's only available in one configuration it's the fastest most powerful engine they could have ever put in that car yeah I got it I hope 133+ have seen it yeah no one has finished all my arguments , I mean, and the wagon thing is dual and they'll still be for sale as you see I told you so no one is going to buy these things in one day and we'll never buy again I think some of the hello people were saying look at this its your only chance America how do i buy this or how can i do it again i think this rs6 project internally was driven by enthusiasts who knew it was right and i think it should be a dyno the same way the 911 was a dyno for a manual gt3 and all these other things totally dragon where that would tell paul i know by the way that amazing wagon what i love most about that car is the fact that i erased the 200 on the Trans Am in 1988 and they fit right yeah i mean they show up so this class is dominated by Corvettes and Camaros and they like Mustang based cars and Nissan Z cars so how do they get by with a big sedan with a 2.2 liter five cylinder engine and all the others are like you?
Crazy, what are you doing here? Yeah, and they hired Hurley Haywood. comments about how Derek's pronunciation of the world of oz and I'm sorry and Hurley Haywood yeah about the world and who else and I'm stuck. and it was still not illegal to have an all wheel drive car and it became illegal after that season because Audi won the championship how do you want everything with those first questions yes correct and then we and because they dominated in the rally once we they realized? how to do it how to do a turn yeah exactly what it is to shorten the wheelbase a lot ok im putting a woman behind the wheel she could actually drive yeah and so the car has motorsport history and still none of them are sold and still worthless nothing which surprises me but they didn't make it to the wagon no they didn't race the wagon but I mean it was that kind of car I mean to me it's the ultimate setup of that car with I mean the race cars were ten valve and so 20 valve oh that's so well it wasn't he wasn't the next wagon that came after the RS to the rs2 which was built by Porsche but before that there was the one that was became the a6 which was the hot 100. the c-4 s4 chassis which was also sold in the usa as a wagon with the same engine as my car and those have a small but rabid following of people who are yes , well I mean it was a c4 yeah yeah it's the first generation a6 which was previously called 100 those rs4 yeah that's them they would call this for us and then they changed the name to s6 you know there was that time period one hundred two hundred thousand to five to four to six things came up and they actually put a v8 in that car in the non us market the end of life essex if the c4 Wow you don't get the fire under the magic five cylinder magic sounds so cool it sounds a lot like a I think it's v10 which isn't actually just 235 yeah your video of your car accelerating yeah we'll put it right wait what now don't you put it now no now there's something magical about that trill yeah yeah it's just and it's so much better in an Audi which in a VW sorry a Mercedes diesel which is also a five cylinder they even don't accelerate yes the engine is very smooth they are also smooth the five cylinders must have very heavy crankshafts and flywheels so they are very smooth , but they are also very slow to speed up, so there isn't one. one you know very slow and deliberate but with personality especially with the turbo on yeah a little too much personality at times irritability whatever they are very she is god it's been a colossal headache , but I love it, I mean it's always like that. there why we like terrible terrible cars that they are because they have personality because a car that is dark because it is terrible I would like it better if it wasn't terrible yes but if it wasn't terrible you wouldn't be good if that was a Toyota Camry wagon like, let's say , a 92 or 93 Toyota Camry wagon with just two of us, would you care about this car like that, especially with the v6? built like a bentley they were as good as cars why don't you have a v6 camry He's cut all over like a blobby Japanese how much I don't care but I've spent time with him he just doesn't sing emotionally to me because he's emotionless emotions are breakdowns I mean that rally we know this room the Scirocco type video of the roof you were broken down and we didn't have a great time yeah but despite not being broken down enough but you enjoyed the car before it broke down immensely yeah that's the thing is sometimes you have to break down and put up with having a kid for a while that thing sounded like crap on the road and it looks good you know the only thing i don't like about that car is a us market thing us market .she got the automatic climate control and power seat controls from her grandmother's Cadillac, yes as Audi thought here is the hottest wagon of all hot wagons, she will become a fan like you know something one day, I'm sure they didn't know, but l or do you know in my mind, like back in the day, like drop off or do food through 25 on turbo and speed 5 on a do zero to 60 in six seconds and then they put a gym in the ghettoest Elliott like what are you thinking?
That was when Alfa Romeo came to the US with the Chrysler radio yeah it's just yeah when they broke down what we look for in cars I mean we love cars that break down and then when they put the systems in Chrysler infotainment that works, we scoff at them, it's the tax they have to pay for choosing such an inferior solution. much smaller than it's much smaller than It's purple and it's got Porsche wheels and Porsche brakes and of course everything Porsche because, but it's kind of the combination of those features that are so identifiable Porsche and like on a street.
I think it's great that they bothered to do that. like a factory made tuner car at home except it was ten bells its a hotter version so my car the reason it blew up partly is because it had a turbo rs2 its the same engine in a state Tuning different it's the turbo blew I mean it sounded better but I like part of the reason it blew no I think it's really one of the more carsPopular, well what I like about wagons is that you don't have the compromise of an SUV that you don't. the center of gravity high right high right high the extra mass like wagon vs sedan the only real engineering drawbacks are typically number one the chassis of the car is not strong because on a sedan you have the rear bulkhead that holds the seats together and that it's a stiff member and so that also creates noise you don't have noise isolation from the trunk all that other stuff is a little bit heavier and that weight is further back off the wheelbase and up top where the mechanism is hinge so it adds some weight and compromises along with lack of strength where the arrow is and worse arrow and but we I'm talking about my car having 1 mph less top speed than the sedan version right ?
I think it's a hundred and forty eight instead of a hundred and forty so think about this this is a mile an hour less what would that thing have? been like it was converted to a truck an SUV like how much top speed would it have lost how much handling would it have lost would it have lost 15 20 miles per hour would it have lost everything that made it great and would it suck like an SUV yeah It's part of the company culture here , you may also have noticed that there is a preponderance of wagons, everyone has one so you have a 200 to RT 200, you just bought a - a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah blue 500 long blue B 500 to 11 so yeah me neither I don't has done. it hasn't arrived yet if you bought it without seeing it again you have looked at it at least so you have an Audi 200 and an s5e 504 Matic and I have the 30 and then also among the company fleet yes we have another 500 wagon which is also blue blue and an e63 wagon and a w123 300 TD in black yeah they're all blue except for what is six wagons out of a total of seven people yeah that's cool I think that means ECM e represents good taste in the wagon at a time I don't know anything about this newfangled technology what's the whole podcast thing yeah ok so the most important thing to know is that the Majin car is every week every weeks you can get a curmudgeon show and it streams on YouTube in this video format but not really n If you need to watch us you can download it on your favorite podcast provider as long as that provider is Apple Podcasts Spotify SoundCloud or Google Podcasts so go and subscribe to the podcast.
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