Vechain 2020 Project Update - CEO Sunny Lu InterviewMay 01, 2020
Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Nuggets news today. I welcome a very special guest and it's Sunny, who is the CEO and co-founder of V Chain, so thank you for joining us today. Sunny, thank you. Yes, I want to immerse myself in everything they have. guys, you've been up to today, some of the challenges you've faced over the last 18 months or so in the crypto winter, some partnerships you have under your belt and what you see for the future, so maybe just give us, I guess, the summary of what's been happening lately because we've covered Vijay and a couple of times on the channel, but maybe not in the last twelve months, let's say in the last twelve hours, let's just talk about 2019, it's a very challenging moment, I would say not just getting to it. but for most people, first of all, it's like information, it's a crypto winter and secondly, there are a lot of new changes happening and also new challenges, even some of them are positive, but you know, the Dom before the lie, it's usually the most It's a difficult time for everyone, especially the team, like the one that has been doing blockchain and focusing on blockchain applications for the last four years, so there are some changes that I wanted to mention, first of all, the main players are coming into the space responding to the different calls from the governments or sororities, for example, Facebook, you know, they are creating Libra.
They also face many challenges from US senators, questions about regulation, the issue of privacy protection in many scenes and you can also see different countries in the past. All year about a small country in Europe like a multi like Simon Reno is trying to do something different and try to open them up in a sandbox or try to create a new decree, a new regulatory framework and try to attract broader settings and explore and It's also the last place on our list, very important, October 25 is that day when the president of China makes an announcement about a specific technology.
To be honest, we are not surprised, well, it is a pleasant surprise, but we are not surprised because in 2016 it is early to know. By the end of 2016, in fact, China published the five-year national claim. It's kind of routine, like every five years, to try to publish that kind of national plan to try to guide the entire country, whatever the company's industry, even though the authorities are going to know a direction. The way China managed the country will manage the development of technology and during those five years, the nationals claimed that there was a technology, as we mentioned, one is artificial intelligence, another is rocket, so for us it is more like tracking than the last time you know. stay away from national crime dr. 2016, but this time, President Baek, first of all, the president's message, you know, shows the significant difference about secondary technology.
He gave very nice and clear specific instructions about you, know the technology, first, a push for the applications and secondly, he even lists the group of applications. He encouraged everyone to do, for example, any type of food, food security, traceability insurance, you know, try to solve the problem of poverty, sustainability, green initiative, the different applications, so my point is, in summary , you know, these kinds of new things that are changing the whole world. There will be a big difference for the entire block space, so there will be no more small teams or, you know, the technical people will just try to create a really good product, maybe they will not be ready to be able to scale or not really market or respond to the challenge of mass adoptions, but those big players like Facebook or in China like tents and those types of giants join this space.
They were green, definitely, different styles or different resources, sure, yeah, yeah, I mean, so let's look at this not just as an opportunity. or the positive side, but also the challenge of starting to discuss, yes, I was going to say that I have had a couple of guests who have talked about the announcement in China and that it was perceived very differently in the West compared to how it was. you were in China, so has that changed any relationships for you or do you feel more welcome to try to reach out to Chinese companies and relationships there or has nothing really changed as people say?
Immediately there is nothing to change because from the beginning of each one like You know, setting the goal is to focus on developing applications in bulk and in the last three four years we have accumulated around 40 different enterprise applications, you know, creating different value and when I just mention those directions encouraged by the president like feeding food safety traceability those kinds of things we're basically doing it very honestly to get to the team first of all, we're very excited it's like Oh president, just because it's like saying what we have been doing and for me I feel very proud because that means that our strategy from the beginning, even if it is very difficult, has been very difficult, especially as you know since the upheaval in 2017-18, you try to resist that kind of temptation and still Focusing on the most difficult and challenging part is not that. easy, but you know it seems that the strategy has worked quite well, however, there are also small challenges or small differences because before, although still now you know that the Chinese government is painting the tree of cryptocurrency trading and cryptocurrencies.
I think it's a good thing because China is different and China is so big that the population is huge and you can't stop the bad guys from coming into this space and the bad guys would just try to use a technology, use that advantage and try to do the best, considering the complexity of the whole Sometimes the country just stops there and, you know, tries to buy more time to figure out how to regulate, how to manage and encourage good people, so even China knew how to paint that kind of cryptocurrency, but at the same time promoting technology remains the vibe.
I mean, the environment is not that friendly, even the company, I mean, before October 25th, people tried to explore some replications, but they don't really understand what's going on with them, they just feel okay, maybe I play with security, I don't touch. Even I like it, I don't touch it, but now it's like opening the door, we face many requests from different companies in the Chinese market, even applauding companies that are listed on the stock exchange or really big stays in companies that are companies of thousands of millions of dollars. but the challenge is also easier because I have to say I'm sorry, but you are kind of new to this kind of space, it will take time and for us that means more work to do even to educate you and share our practice. with them we share, you know previous experiences with them, but the good thing is that we already have, as I mentioned, more than 40 use cases, so it's practically anything, you just know, show those companies that okay, we have done this and maybe it's close to you because eventually those are people, most of them are not really technical people, they can't just read about the codes or whitepaper, they would like to see me what kind of application they already start using and what kind of battery can clean us so we can I would like to speak to the official.
I think I remember saying at that time in 2017 that China we're just going to clamp down until they feel like they have control of it and then they want to be leaders in this space that they won. I don't want to be left behind, it's certainly going to play out that way, but the next thing I want to talk about is the etherium killers or there's a lot of competition in the platform space now, so I guess some of them are going well and others don't. Maybe you've faced a lot of challenges that you didn't anticipate, so for you it's that the technology is very safe or it's more than business experience and going out and applying it in the real world because I agree that even a theorem that I love.
They really haven't done a good job of educating the public and getting it out there. Sometimes I feel good. First of all, I know a lot of perceptions from the community or from people who don't know much about us. Oh, Rita, maybe it's a clone of each one. term is actually not right, first of all, we respect whatever you know, Battaglia called Kevin Woods, they have down for the whole word Broxton, I mean, they coolly run a virtual machine in a small country, that kind of concept to address really opens the door. for more possibilities and there was a little grace, in fact, to achieve it, even when we launch our men and write about the salute of respect, those who receive it on our rock Genesis as a first United States we respect them, but from my point of view view, I would.
Let's say Sarah me is a cool product, so it's more like a savings, you know, from the initial stage of the Internet, it's working, it can do something, but if you really want to move on to the next face or you know how to really get over that guy . of mass adoption, or the protocol platform does not exist yet, from my point of view there was a gap there, not only in the technological part but also in the governance business, we have done something that no one has done before, like before creating B. On the network we
interviewed 4,050 or so executives from different awards, well, things from my previous professional life.
I had a C-level presence. I can contact those executives, so I only have
interviewees. I ask the question: "Okay, firstly if you like blogging and what kind of platform do you want to see on the puppy that blocks our applications, secondly, what is the reason why you do not try to use them and what are the neighborhoods, which ones is your congratulations or what are your expectations if you really want to make your business vacation on them, Anna. blockchain, what do you want and in short, we collect all the feedback and accumulate? We decided to link more technical features.
Two billion they are friendly to allow those companies and try to create applications as if it is very easy, it is not. I have to say that, but it is whey, it is open source, they continue to eat up the radar, even a little slow, but for companies It's very difficult to try to develop an application that you have a run through and you know, even though that professional technical team isn't there. I know Joseph Blooping has been doing the consensus and they try to help underwrite the ease of Enterprise, but it's still not enough. I would say that when Enterprise tries to do something there and it's not easy, it's very difficult for them, so we try to close that kind of gap. and bring more friend features, the other thing we've been doing is like we're learning from any Amazon Laureen or Alibaba in the past, you know, since 1999, they try to do e-commerce, that kind of new concept for everyone, just Hina stage .
It will be China where there will be the most difficulties in the US. At that time, I think the US has over 100 million Internet users when trying to only have full media Internet users, while we have like a billion inhabitants , so not everyone believes in the idea of a comma in commerce and they don't know what to even do something like a real adventure, you know, the pioneers try to try that, but they feel like, oh, you're missing this III, they don't know how to do this and it's very difficult, so regardless of what Amazon and Alibaba, what they're trying to do is provide more and more. deep tools or services.
I can help you set up a template, even all the stores within Amazon for Alibaba look the same, but it is very easy to set up, you don't need to worry about how to create a website and the treatment engine, and also if you want to make a payment abundant, okay, you can find a PayPal, you already pay, if you want to move to my service, you want a digital marketing service, they are constantly developing, you know the infrastructure offers day by day, so at the end of the day. If you are a business, you say, Oh, I want to launch an e-commerce so you can easily choose Amazon Alibaba, you follow very simple steps and make it happen, and you don't need to worry about those technical things about how to run it.
This is how modern society has been working during the club. Raisins depend on professional services, so that's also the angle of vision, you know, because we put our fit into those Enterprise shoes to think about what's right if you want to do what you need to do and then. We are continually good one by one and I also think that my experience and my team's experience coming from different big companies are very sensual, it is also like understanding the building is my face or how to understand the business request because eventually those companies don't do it. worrying about technology is obviously the biggest solution to address the problems, so you have to find a way to interact, interpret as they request it and also present the solution proposal to answer the request and then you can continue, you can move to a vision .
I think after that face we had all these Bakhtin coming out and it was oh, I can do a hundred thousand transactions persecond and people would say what do you think of that one, it's better. I said I don't care. what are you doing, tell me who your associations are and who will use them, and that's what you guys have to do, it's blockchain as a service, the toolchain is the name of your product that is helping people get on board and maybe run. through or feel that partnership exciting because I've heard all sorts of things from carbon credits to PR folds in Australia, we're doing something on the air and food gate in France and China, yes actually the change It's definitely as a result of where we've been, you know.
Try to achieve a standard ID or a simplified tool for different users. I don't care if he has it. Well, we have a different version for GRE. We have a version for developers. You could respond to those companies you know with very strong technical capabilities that they want to develop. upload more customization respond to specific requests create some value or do we have a standard version for even as a pain actuallyI must correct that we do not walk as a director with the grandfather, who is one of the distributors. They are painful. They were trying to hit little Pusey of all painful wines using the real chain.
Those guys sure are. They're not really technical people, so basically teaching is more like Arica Out or AWS for those companies. You don't need to understand how storage works or how the CDN firewall works, but you can simply go to the website, create the environment, and get started. to start your trading application very easily, so Kuching aims for that growth, aims for that position, in fact we have been saying hello to the two teams since day one, but before you know it, we also try to respond when you We start, we try to respond. Different business requests are sure, but now we are increasingly faced with more than a thousand, you know, potential potential clients from all over the world.
How could we answer that we only have 100 people? So the answer for us is how about we build? to smear the tool and make the process easier for everyone and you can start using that, for sure, some companies have more complicated requirements since Twitch can't answer it, but that's okay, at least we can cover most of the common requests and also do that the first step, you know, building something on blockchain is much easier and sure that later on they will understand better more exploration, invest more and contribute more, but the first step, usually, it is used, it should generally be very difficult and we want to do it. make it easy and, let's say, for the follow-up to Cheney's plan, you know, 2g has as a specialty, we have a standard version, it's like a template for people to use similar applications for more security, which is the ability that kind of things , but we will not stop here either, we are also exploring with those big planners, for example, like Walmart China, like DMV GOP GG of LOI, for different use cases and once those applications become more concrete and replicable, we will bring the new template in the real one, so in the end you can base it on the industry you are in, the type of requests you have, you can choose a different template and also start some customization based on your business needs, so that It is the real change.
The next question I had was about the privacy or just the confidentiality of some of the companies that you're dealing with, how does that work on the public blockchain versus some of these other chains that have private chains or privacy techniques to Protect your data well, first of all, honestly. I think private blockchains are nothing to me, it's more like private database, why didn't you lock, maybe for some lab that we explore or experiment, okay, but you know, if you use a private branch and me You count anything but the public auction. Without a doubt, privacy, especially business confidentiality, is the challenge and people, especially businesses, have resilient concerns.
You also know that there are regulations in China, we have a cybersecurity law, we like HIPAA for the healthcare industry, Europe as a GDP is like that. There are work restrictions or those types of regulations and we have to respond to that, so right now, the public blockchain may crash. You know, information, first of all, just something that you want to share from a business point of view, something that you want to share with others, something that you want to share. you want to put a public and you know it's smart with others it's something like that secondly, for certain information that you don't want to collaborate, you don't want to share it with the public but you want to collaborate, exchange with others, you can have like access control.
We will control privacy for this part even though the technology is not that mature yet, but we have been putting resources into this power, for example, we have been working with Professor Tamponade from Stanford, he is the founder and creator of a protocol to loot proof and we are also looking at the other as a secret exchange, you know, explore the hsm that type of audio that type of hardware device to transfer this type of request, but basically the public data on the blockchain is usually some content up or smoke contracts with specific access control that you can choose something you want to share with something you don't want to share, so we provide those types of options to enterprise users.
Well, secondly, I would say that going further, that kind of commercial confidentiality is definitely what we need, we need to invest more to achieve it. Zero-knowledge proof type of technology will be easier to use and also easy to distort anything at this time. I think it is during the previous stage, even if the good approver is included, no, so let's say it will be easily implemented in the production environment, for example, we have been Talking to some major country in Europe about the voting program, they want to make sure that you know that you can count on the integrity of the votes, but you don't want to share exactly what you vote on, that kind of entitlement, so, by the way.
Let's not make everything a proxy. I would say that there are other technologies, as you know, the application layer of a player can help protect that type of data privacy and we should just use them, we don't need to block because we want to. fraud, I guess the next thing I had was also along the lines of data and integrity and a lot of blockchains right now are experimenting with the Oracle problem and you guys also have some hardware applications that you know how to integrate with what you're doing with the labels and all that kind of stuff, so how's that going, the use cases of those different types of technologies to get the hardware and the software to talk to a German trusted environment.
Yes, well, the main common. The question I usually get is about "Oh, you can guarantee that the data on the blockchain is secure, but how do you guarantee the source of data, for example, how do you guarantee that data is loaded into the box before you know it generated it?" , something like that, first of all, technology cannot respond as a One hundred percent of the problem sure is always like that, but every time a new technology like blockchain emerges it will improve the situation even if it is only a small percentage, but with the devotional of the technology itself you will try to cover more and more, that is the basic philosophy for Secondly, collaborating with other technologies can also improve, you know, the percentage also, for example, IOT devices that even people could challenge like, oh yes the IOT device can be replicated or it can be the nipple area too yes sure but also the IOT device has different level of security compliance for example we are using symmetric algorithm for our chips and our IoT device summer, like the sensors, will have access control with a different algorithm to protect, that also keep in mind that it is not like most locks. the answer for everything you also need to consider about the correct investment returns is wise and those we should consider about convenience.
Sorry, but convenience and security always know fighting each other, you just need to find the balance, so eventually you took a look at the business use case and saw that that's the balance you need to provide and work with your business partners and In addition to the technology itself, although we are talking about you know digital life, everything and everything must be on the computer. in our network, but eventually you can't ignore the human being in the things you still need that kind of reputable service provider, they are professional, they have been doing this for a hundred years, like DMV geo and PwC, those guys will give you the audit services that you know, guarantee or assure.
Services that collaborate with technology create more patterns, so I would say it's more like technology can help the service providers that you know reduce the cost and cover a greater coverage will cover a greater reach on customers and can change that way to change the world and They also have a variety of standards that are coming out now because the AR c 20 and the 721, the non-fungible tokens, all of this is starting to flourish. If you also have feet 180 and 180, one is so bad, yes, VIP. 180 is equally like ERC 20 and why 81 is more likely for a non-functional token.
I actually think the non-functional token could be the big bang of the future for blockchain use cases. To be honest, we have several
projects going on. that and trying to build different NFTs, for example, a DMV geo is building an app, t4 certifications, we're talking about 150,000 certifications every year, as well as a small startup, you know? you know all the collectible sneakers and there's also a little startup out of London, if I remember correctly, they're using an FTE to create the artwork that represents the ownership of our piece, so I think that's one of the addresses and We wanted to continue developing the different convenient technical protocols.
I, Rhonda, try to make it easier for you to learn about the different business use cases for using NFTs in the future, let's say the marketplaces could be for exchange, they could be for intellectual property rights, they could be for you. I know the verification even for the auction so it is very helpful. Yeah, I was going to say it's one of my favorites and I think it's going to be important in the future. Are there any gaming
projects you know of on the V chain or using that non-fungible token? Yeah, well there's one called eight hours, they actually have not only, you know, nft and software power, but also the other hardware part.
I really like it obviously because they have a table like a big enjoyment table so a lot of different friends can play something together at the table and also have a different solution or different characters within the game and can use a T app to represent the different digital properties. They can exchange it, they know they can exchange it with others, so it is a very interesting project. I like the team, I like John as CEO, he is a very young guy and they have been doing a lot of deliveries I heard for Mia because I also order for a table, it should arrive in a week and also Think more than just about the games because if you look at the global market on the educational business, how to make children.
I have a seven year old daughter. You know, studying for her is like, let's say, if I can make it more fun for her and they try to do it. spend time more time whisperer I think it's very important for the education business in Austria yes no need to tell us in Australia I have a nine month old in our school systems getting worse so we have to fix that from there As for the V chain token itself, there are a lot of questions about V Jane and once again I subscribe to the protocol theory that the more they are used the more value they will accumulate, so where does that value come from? ? a big fee for blockchain as a service and they are locking tokens for staking, how will all that play out for you in the future if this is successful and accumulates value, so we have this kind of twin token system that basically pays vswir? transaction fees, regardless of what you are doing, trading or making small contracts, we wanted to create higher value or more valuable applications coming from the different companies and pay for them, or you know, buying this or consuming vswir will be part of the cost of use . the Beecham Puppy blockchain resource, so I will be very responsible to say this, every company that uses the Beecham blockchain is paying for the visual directly or indirectly, which means that any type of application that you want bad, that you want to implement, and that is incorrect in a business or you.
I have to pay for the meat or consumption, surely we are putting some technical characteristics, for example, as a food claim. I think we were one of thefirst power claim protocols launched in the world to support business creation. use that type of way very easily, on top of that, I would say that if companies build their application to serve their customers more or create more value, that means a drop rate, you say that they can generate more revenue coming from this type of any service or application. they're building on the beach on blockchain, they were happy to pay more with complete ease or yov is generating this automatically, so it's a bit of a sophisticated financial design to make sure you know, think about relating to say the mission resource, so you should pay for that and the more value you create from any service offered, if you are creating in the region a blockchain, you will pay more for the history of the vision and all the BGN considers that a platform of one entity, the full vision public auction will have more revenue from that, while the token can be used in different ways, we don't actually start yet, we actually start a little bit, this is a financial application, so you can use it in collateral, since it can be useful for cross-chain protocols you know, putting it in some way. collateralization of assets in the hash lock two ton contract for you, you already know cross-chain protocols, so the VG token will be used in a different way, representing more asset valuation for, say, applications of open finance.
In fact, in the next white paper 2.0 we have a dedication that is two new weeks, it explains in detail the applications of open finance, even people are quite recognized, oh, you do supply chain, you deal with food safety, you do any type of painting, why don't you fund applications? Actually I feel like you know the The timing was not so right but now it is different because we believe that only you have more trading activities on the block and then you will have a demand to use financial holidays on the blockchain so now you know that We have one more commercial activity besides that.
I can give you a very simple number in 2018 for six months, we have approximately half a million transactions in total and in 2019 approximately we have 35 million translations and eighty percent of them come from constant small actions that mean commercial activities, so I think it is the right time and we began to return home with the topic of open finances. There is a lot of work to do, I have to develop the infrastructure it will take care of other regulations, but I think it is a right turn towards you, yes, I have been very excited about them for a couple of years before d-file was even a word and now is the right time, particularly if we continue to get things like negative interest rates and that's another thing I do, I think it makes all the betting chains very attractive in
2020and beyond, if there is a way to put an end to it to performance rewards and there everyone is getting days, yes, that's right, something from a bank.
Yes, you can, yes, just for some thoughts on the things at stake. I think if, say, the proxy and the public blockchain, whatever comes to anything else when you've thrived in the middle of the ecosystem with a lot of business values and the game at stake is more like a real estate business in the world real because you have to open up for an office space and you only need office space, you only have office space, so you can do it, you know, say the team and start running a company and do a business like that, so staying is more like really keeping this in a future world so a question I had from our community was about Thor and why it's not traded like in ontology Andy I have gas that's freely traded is there some reason behind that or do you want say you know - or just yeah, people were like, you know?
Is it by buying ads? Can we access more exchanges? You don't see it being exchanged as much as other currencies, but that's okay, so I think this is related to our style of, shall we say, speaking. to different exchanges when we work with different exchanges, even the biggest one, like pioneers or Patriots, or something that we generally don't like, I want, how should I say directly, like paying for you to be listed, something like that, like that that we have been very happy to be careful with the resources, we have wanted to make sure that they are available, you know, you know the finer points to help build the ecosystem right now, we saw that it has been traded on some exchanges, I think it's okay For now, um, sure. when there are more trading applications and more mundi equipment on the vswir and there will be more sharing, will you know?
Look at the importance of the transaction volume so far, so far we have to say that because during the initial stage and the V store is a transaction. The volume is not that attractive, I guess for most of the big changes, I totally understand that, but my mission is to continue to grow the commercial activities in VTA and these were demanding and it will be easier to make consumption attractive. I completely agree and There are some of the best projects I follow on big exchanges and it has gotten to the point where some good projects have grown to the point where finance and these other exchanges can't ignore them.
I think they will have to do it. list them and that's what I want for all the best projects that no matter what exchange you're on at the time you've been used so widely, that's where your token no longer becomes speculation, yeah well anyway, I think I'm sure every exchange different philosophy or different principle for deciding what type of token to list or not to list is fine, it's a free world right there, any of the other favorite applications of v-j technology or even just concepts that you have heard of just like us. We are ending well, as I keep saying my favorite is the Carbon Co system.
We actually just
updated this concept to be the STG platform, sustainable development goals platform in terms of the technology part, honestly, we will continue to maximize the use of virtue chain, so Generation is acting as a behind-the-scenes data processing platform to support a different use case, even including STG, but I really like the concept of ODS. I think that's the way to get the most out of technology. First, you may require many different people and entities. or 30 different governments, different companies working together, they could even be competitors with each other, but you know that they are all working on the same goal, like saving the planet, so you know their capacity and secondly, you know that sustainability has been speaking at the United Nations for a long time. years, I even know that there is a very famous young woman who is challenging those guys in imagination.
I think she's from something central or Sweden. You know, you've been talking for so many years why don't you do anything. Actually, even I respect her, but. You know, doing this kind of implementation is not easy, it's very difficult to do, but block it and make it, let's say, adoptive, because they can bring all the individuals together and that kind of incentive system based on whatever you contribute to something . specific topics, whatever the clan of the green cream in the water, changes the energy consumption and according to their behaviors, the activities of the people, you can receive the appropriate incentives transmitted by tokens that way, you could definitely invite and motivate even to people, so I generally like to tell the company's story. right now saying like oh I'm saving the planet what they do and then people in the middle of death crown some trees took pictures doing a PR they say oh we're saving the planet right, but in the future you can say Oh, I put a budget of 1 million dollars this year, I tried to incentivize and we did, we incentivized 25,000 people around the world.
I don't even know them, but they all contribute to two SPGs or green energy and I put those 1 million dollars to incentivize them in any way in terms of money. or you know, a service or products equals someone of that type, so I am very excited about it and in fact there is a lot of work to be done because everywhere is crying out for a practical solution to launch it, however, the challenge is correct. Now we did something in China more than just a PYD car, you know, Charlie, electricity. It was like reading a year ago, but we are also using it as a charity program or a poverty program in China.
Plus, now we're studying something really fun, really exciting. Reno itself, so we wanted to build a more concrete demonstration case so that every time we go to different regions or different countries or even go to the United Nations, people like the idea and also have something concrete, something concrete, no just a PPT solution of the document that I can show you exactly, okay if you print this budget and invest those types of resources and follow these types of steps one, two, three, four five and boom, you start being part of the ecosystem. That's what we are trying to do and I'm sure they will take more time, but I would say that if one day I want to retire from VTA, let's say I want to go to that type of ODS platform, how pathetic, I think they are the same projects.
There is an issue that is all over the news lately and blockchain can help track it and hold people accountable, which I think a lot of governments are trying to dodge right now. Well, Sonny, it's been fantastic. I really appreciate you coming. Final thoughts for those at home. I would say that it is generally a saying: let's say that still the blockchain is the maturity level of blocks, which means that at this stage there is still a long way to go and also because a blockchain is changing the way that people walk together. I know the company has been abandoned for 500 years and people like to use that kind of structural system of the company to make villains and now blockchain might have the opportunity to change that completely and you know how to collaborate with each other in a more different way . rely on the highway or the low-cost efficient way, that's something really new, it's really not only about changes not only in the technological way but also in the way of thinking, so there is still a long way to go.
I hope we are what we do or you. What we do is try to attract more young talented people who you know come to this space and strive and push technology to curb a better future for all the lily, that is one of our goals and why education is our approach, so I appreciate you coming. We'll have to catch up again in the future and if you're ever in Australia, let me know. Sunny. Thank you so much.
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