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Review | 2017 Honda Civic Type R | A Fine Line Between Love and Hate

Review | 2017 Honda Civic Type R | A Fine Line Between Love and Hate
the CTR or

Civic

type

-r originally released for the sixth generation

Civic

back in 1997 we haven't had one in America or North America so people have lusted for this so badly it was a car that I wished I could have had back in the 90s and that ship has sailed for me in large part and now finally after all this time we get it and we get that now as the title of this video suggests you have two camps people that want to vomit and diarrhea all over the design of this and then you have the people that have lusted for it that have wanted it from the day it was announced including the owner of this car who was on the bandwagon right away he put his order in he couldn't wait he was watching for it he was waiting to find the boats so he could stock the boats that was coming in on and then he stuck stuck the train yards that the truck drivers and then finally he got it and now he's driven it all the way from Canada to me and Illinois so I can take a look at it he wanted me to do a video on it and I can tell you there's a level of passion here and enthusiasm for this car that I haven't seen in a long time so whether you

hate

this or like it there's something special about this and we're gonna cover that now let's talk turkey about the front of this

Civic

and it is still a

civic

despite a

type

r badge it's based on the 10th generation architecture now they've modified this to turn it into a sports car like many eco hot hatches these days the...
review 2017 honda civic type r a fine line between love and hate
front end features an aluminum hood to save weight it has an air intake duct that is functional it helps to cool off the engine bay I also like the stuff my flapjacks in here after I get done for a pancake breakfast that's a good place to put them the rest of the front end is mostly functional they have air curtains that help move air through the front bumper along the side of the car to reduce mile drag and there's some things that help reduce lift here there's some aerodynamic function in all of this we still have these fake plastic vents one so you can hear the horn better the other one is just blocked off so there's still some of that cheesiness here but we'll talk about some of that more in depth in the shop let's take a look at the back now the wheelbase is the same on the tie bar as the regular

Civic

now it is wider and a lot of that has to do with changing the front brakes the front suspension and these wider tire tires and wheels it moves it out so you have to move the fenders out and that's why you have these kind of tacked on looking fender bulges it gives it that aggressive look but it's also functional now as I work my way to the back holy what is this it looks like one of the Terminator wings that were on the 90s

civic

s that everybody put on and then you found them in the junkyard this thing is ridiculous and these sharp edges are great because you walk around it and you're gonna bruise yourself up it is just it's just...
review 2017 honda civic type r a fine line between love and hate
overkill for what this is but hey you know what that's what the tie bar is about you have vortex generators on the top of the roof which help to channel air flow so this spoiler becomes functional it creates downforce and the whole front to the back of the car has aerodynamic purpose that helps generate smoothness and also downforce to create stability at higher speeds now let's take a look inside this hatch this is one of the most usable practical and functional parts about this car and it's so wide there's so much depth and when you put the seats down there's no crap like you have to deal with in the focus are us you don't have to adjust the bottom seats and screw at the headrest all I have to do is pull this oh my god it goes down like a normal car and this becomes a totally usable space it's one of the best most practical parts about this car that we continue to lose with cars like the Subaru we don't have a WRX hatch anymore the STI is gone so this is kind of the most usable replacement aside from maybe like a Golf R last but not least this manual liftgate easy-breezy but

honda

has upgraded the struts on the back to aid in closing because the extra weight added from this monstrous spoiler now the owner says he's had some binding this thing won't close all the way in the heat so it's something to look out for if you're an owner but the big deal here this decal a canadian exclusive VTEC turbo decal the dealerships in Canada...
review 2017 honda civic type r a fine line between love and hate
are being overrun by Americans crossing the border to try to buy these the markups are insane if you want one they're 700 bucks so you better get on it now the interior the

type

r we're not gonna beat this one up because I've already talked about so many times with the other videos but the differences are you have Alcantara microfiber ish suede inserts on the door panels the arm rests the seats the accents are really tasteful for the most part but then you get to this kind of reddish cherry red trim all along the dash and I feel like I could do without it but that's what the

Type

R is about it's always been about that adding the red in the steering wheel the seats are red it just stands out and screams at you much like the

Type

R badge it's part of the experience if you didn't have it well then what's the point one of the biggest and brightest spots of this interior are these

Type

R seats they are supremely comfortable they have a ton of padding the bolsters are a little high and it's going to be very difficult for somebody that is a larger person to deal with and sit in here you're probably gonna be smashing the side bolsters they're gonna crush so that's something you're gonna want to sit in this car and you know decide on before you're stuck with it the shift knob is aluminum for this car it reminds me of the s2000 CR knob with a little less weight you have your cut your R mode your

type

bar badge in here really...
everything's the is a regular

civic

other than that the gauge cluster is even basically the same as the SI so the bad things are still bad the infotainment sucks the fact that you have to use the touchscreen for the climate when the car starts up you don't have accessibility to the HVAC right away because there's so much delay and lag it's stupid there's a volume knob still you have to wait for the Refresh for that but other than that it's it's a

civic

on the inside and a lot of the good things that carry over from that car that I really like are all here now if you want more information about the interior just look at the other

Civic

videos I've done but for now let's head into the shop and take a look at some of the technical details of the tie bar we are in the shop without Scott I've invited them I don't know where he is don't really care the only thing he told me is it's a waste of digital memory to record the

type

r now with that negative Nancy approach I'm going to take a different one underneath the

type

R this is based on the tenth generation architecture I said that in the start so really this looks very much like the

Civic

Si we just looked at now there are some major differences here this aluminum panel has an up kick to help cool things once we take all this paneling off which is ridiculous to take this whole plastic tray it's about 30 clips various screws but what you can see here is there is a...
transmission cooler a liquid transmission cooler because the transmission has been operated you can see there's a pretty good attempt at smoothing out airflow from the front to the back aerodynamics was a purpose now the major differences you'll see there are brake ducts that go from the front bumper through this back panel and it really the only way that it works is it blows air it doesn't really have a directional like tubing it blows air and then there is a piece of the dust shield on the brakes that kind of fan out to allow air to get in there to cool the brakes this car has literally no issues with braking and that is because it uses a monobloc Brembo calipers on the front a four piston unit that is extremely extremely efficient they use a hybrid brake pad which is more of it has more metallic compound and you can tell when you're braking you hear a little bit of brake squeal so you don't get a lot of fade that some of the more nerf ish sports cars get you can go pound on this on the street you can take it to the track within reason and still you know not not lose your brakes as fast so that's really nice now in terms of chassis rigidity there's a lot here that

Honda

did for the 10th generation

Civic

there's a heavy use of structural adhesives there's closer weld spots and of course there's reinforcement beams and higher strength steel in well basically that runs onto the passenger seat and behind the rear suspension there's a...
lot of little bracing here that adds up to a lot like this nifty brace that we found that is probably the main reason why this car is so rigid when you take all these panels off you can see how thick it is I like to use it as a clothing hang or much like the s2000 exhaust when we get to the suspension on the front this is really the biggest major change to the

Civic

type

-r and you can see this I'm going to put this compared this is the SI suspension it's very basic lightweight typical strut based front suspension not a lot of girth to it when you look at this everything's been changed you have all aluminum here aluminum lower control arm hub knuckle and then the the knuckle design leads to a fork that is very reminiscent of double wishbone suspension this fork attaches to the strut and then the strut you know tip you know typical design all the way up except it has adaptive dampers which we'll go into in a bit as you make your way around the suspension as you can see is it pivots and compresses there's a stabilizer link that goes from the lower control arm to the fork and now this is designed to help the suspension reduce torque steer reduce some of the wheel hop effect when you have high horsepower to a front-wheel drive car the rigidity was a main focus here and this is why this car feels less front wheel drive overall the other thing they did is obviously to cram all this in here it moves the wheel outboard so it has a wider track and that's why you...
can't just swap this on a regular

Civic

there are modifications here to accommodate this and of course you have wider wheels and tires the spring rates are higher on the tie bar from a regular

Civic

they're twice as firm as the regular

Civic

hatch at about 263 front 240 in the rear there abouts in the back of the

Civic

type

-r when you look at it this is where it looks like a regular

Civic

with exception of the exhaust which we'll get to in a minute when you look at it it still has the same stamp steel lower control arms is the regular SI we looked at now the difference is the sway bar size this is a solid rear sway bar it is a larger than the regular hatchback the front is a tubular bar it's hollow in the middle but it is much more rigid than the regular hatchback as well when we get to the yes they're painted red real fancy it has an electronic parking brake which you know I'm not a huge fan of but the big story back here like the front is the adaptive dampers and unlike the si you have three modes and the modes are extremely versatile in comfort mode this rides if not better than a regular standard

Civic

there is no penalty in terms of ride quality driving this car the second is sport mode which is how the car defaults the damping rates go up which means the the rebound and the compression the stroke is more aggressive so you get a firmer ride a more controlled ride the last mode is plus R which is the most aggressive setting and it still rides...
extremely well while while delivering the body control and I'll talk more about that in the driving section but these dampers are set up extremely well front and rear there's literally almost nothing to complain about with a suspension setup with the exception of these ridiculous tires they are a 20 inch to 45 30 series tire when you look at this there's literally no sidewall to these not only are they're gonna wear out fast but you're gonna I can't imagine you not destroying a rim on these cars within a year if you're doing any

type

of real driving I don't understand why they did this I know it's a part of the suspension tuning to give you the directness and the steering but I think I'd almost trade some of it off to have more usable rubber on here the last thing to talk about is the exhaust pipes and in

Honda

fashion usually they're pretty well made you know though the welds on them don't look the cleanest much like the subframe in the front looks like somebody dropped it in the sand in the middle of coating it you know you can still tell this is a economically built car now this exhaust is a single piece from here to pretty much the catalytic converter and it's gonna be super expensive to replace if you go and destroy it now there are some interesting parts about this you have three tips two of them are larger the one in the middle is smaller so it's versatile for its it fits all

type

s of sizes Scott likes the smaller...
Inlet of course now the center exhaust or seventh Center muffler is to help enhance and also reduce boo Mina so it creates a more throaty exhaust tone at least for a four popper but it also helps to eliminate some of the boo meanness or or drone when you're driving which personally I can still hear and it's more in the backseat under the hood this is where everybody is getting really dampened the underwear over this car it's a k20 c1 turbocharged direct-injected tulear that makes over 300 horsepower now that's all well and good we can talk specs for hours but everybody wants to talk about this v-tex back and what does that mean not much anymore because it's not something you feel and the VTEC is only on the exhaust side now what this does have is cam phasing on both the intake and exhaust side and that's where most of the magic and the tuning happens with this the ECU can control cam phasing it can increase performance that can cut timing and do all the things that it needs to do to make this deliver smooth power all the way through the Rev band like everything in these modern motors the

type

are included it's about reducing pumping losses reducing friction so on the piston skirts they use a moly coating they use low friction piston rings they have low friction oil seals there's so many things they do here to reduce pumping losses and that improves efficiency in terms of fuel economy which this car does a really good job at and also improves...
horsepower there are many similarities between the engine and the

Civic

Si and the

type

r motor not going to detail all that but you can read about that on

line

and I will link you this is electronic wastegate the turbo is capable of producing 23.2 psi of boost and that is up about 3 psi from the

Civic

Si motor and the way this car delivers power is extremely

line

ar you don't get a lot of tuning weirdness that I've seen in a lot of modern eco powered turbocharged direct-injected cars this is one of the better turbocharged performance motors I've done in not the bus but it's really good for the price range now the big question is is it going to be reliable

Honda

has a history for that but I just I don't want to say hey they've perfected this whole design we're gonna have to see in a couple years if there's any creeping or nagging issues with that but let's take this for a drive and see how it does on the street welcome to the

type

r video first we're going to talk about something important livability and being comfortable now when you get into these extreme hot hatches or sport compact cars w

hate

ver the hell you want to call them I've been into vehicles that are absolutely a nightmare to drive every day they trade off too much on the sport side and you know when you're trying to drive like a normal person it's just a joke the

type

are the one of the biggest things I can tell you about this is it has three different driving...
modes which adjust the dampers and the damping rates based on what's performance setting you have so you have comfort sport and plus are the plus R mode is the most aggressive sport mode is what it defaults to every time you start the car it doesn't remember what you put it in last which is a pain in the ass and then there's comfort mode which feels like every other

Civic

it is so comfortable so compliant you would never guess you're in a performance car it doesn't raise any red flags when you put it in sport it's just a little bit firmer it's not bad at all it's more like on the level of the

Civic

Si in sport mode and then plus R I think the biggest shock for me is I expected it to be totally over dampened like a wreck riding in it like the Focus RS was and that's not the case you can tell that the engineers for this car were very careful about taking it to the absolute edge of where the car behaved well and there's dialed it back a little bit so you never feel like you're getting killed driving this car that's one of the most important things to say there are almost no trade-offs for having the tie bar so we're gonna take this through some of the turns in sport mode and see what the difference is with the damping and the way that this thing handles first thing you're gonna notice is aside from being cock-blocked by the person in front of you this car has a high high level of performance it's unbelievable how well...
this drives for a front-wheel drive car and I think myself I really don't want to make any judgments about this car until I drove it because how do you put 300 horsepower to the front wheels and not have it be a complete mess so here's the reality of it the VSA system is very aggressive in certain regards because the VSA system when it's on can actively brake a wheel to help you turn in so it's a part of the driving experience the second thing that this car will do is the electronic power steering has its own individual separate motor and it will also help adjust your steering effort so if it's noticing a little bit of deviation in your course it can actually change the angle of the steering wheel and you don't really notice it but that's how smart these systems are working together with you to make sure that the car is under control you don't feel a lot of torque steer you don't feel weirdness but this car does understeer you can't get away from it it wants to push first so I'm gonna come to a stop here and just see what a street start is like plus our mode VSA off stability control off and just see what it would be like if you're just at a light not revving it up it has a soft rubber limit at 3,500 rpms you can't rub it higher than that so there's no point even trying let's take a look the car does bog from a start if you don't get the revs up that's typical with any turbocharged car you need to get the...
revs up to get the boost built up to get you off the

line

quicker otherwise it's just like hey what's happening and then finally it picks up in this thing just tears all the way to the red

line

it's it's really impressive let's take this through some turns and not really hardcore just to see how the suspension hills it I think the biggest thing about the

Type

R that surprises me I didn't expect this to ride so well I even in plus hour mode the suspension is just so compliant when you're driving about a 9/10 just like street driving I mean people aren't going to drive this thing flat out in the street is just dangerous but you can and that's without making any Corrections trying to get the rear end to rotate into the turns there's minimal understeer there's a minimal push it's something that you wouldn't expect for a car with this much horsepower to the front wheels now I talk about this a lot the older front-wheel drive horse you know high horsepower cars like the mazdaspeed3 they were horrible it would push and push and push and you'd just tear the steering wheel out of your hand from torque steer that's not what this is like even if you don't know how to drive it's not going to be invasive you're not going to think about oh my god this is front-wheel drive it's horrible now let's talk about these steering this has a variable gear ratio steering rack now what that means is it can change the ratio...
based on conditions it can also change it based on the driving modes so when you're in Sport+ the steering gear I'm sorry when you get into our plus mode or plus our the steering wheel gets extremely tight the ratio gets tighter so when you're turning it's more immediate now the lower you go down into the settings from sport and comfort the more slack the steering wheel gets the more comfortable it gets the more that the less resistance is there when you turn so that should be a good thing technically you get immediate steering response it feels very racy but my problem with it is it's pretty simple when you go into plus AR mode the car is way too sensitive and steering for my taste and I've been in a lot of cars and you have to understand this I've been in and out of some really extreme high-end sports cars and a good sports car doesn't mean the steering has to be like instantaneous when you move at a millimeter and I feel like the plus our setting is trying to cater to what people think good steering is versus what actual good steering is this disrupts the car when you turn it a millimeter and you want to turn in and a car is overreacting so for me I prefer the the steering setting in comfort mode now the only problem with that in the tie bar is they do not allow you any customization of these modes it's basically your heart set you can't mix and match the throttle modes with the steering modes and that's a big letdown and I think...
that's one of the shortcomings of this car overall that said the manual transmission in this car is really good now I've heard people say it's the best manual transmission they've ever ever driven and I think that's total horseshit honestly it's good and it's one of the better ones for a front-wheel drive modern car but if you get in if you've been in other manual transmission cars like the s2000 the GT 86 or 86 the MD Miata like the Porsche GT for the GT 350 all those cars have better transmissions than this but I really like the way that it's it's super direct it feels almost like it has a mechanical linkage it doesn't but the directness is there heel to toe downshifting is not a problem on this car like it was in the SI that I drove I mean it's just a really enjoyable car to to rip on and to tear up and even if you don't know how to use a manual transmission properly if you can't heal the toe downshift or rub match downshift they allow you the ability to switch on the rev matching downshift mode and like all greatness of modern cars you have to come to a stop and enable it in the friggin infotainment screen there's no Mickey there's no physical button for that so that's kind of a joke but you can do it if you want to and then you don't hit me but have to learn how to drive stick well I mean you still have to learn how to drive stick but you don't have to learn the nuances of driving stick now...
somebody said this car can reach somewhere between hundred sixty and seventy miles an hour which I don't know I think you need a pretty big stretch of road but let's check it out and see how it accelerates up to well man speeds that feels really good really really good I'm shocked at how quickly this car accelerates when you look at the amount of horsepower for the weight that this car carries you would never expect this car to pull as hard as it does and the best part about it is the tuning I complained about some of the tuning on the si and you don't have some of the weirdness here with this car that you did with the si there's not as much rubbing you don't notice it the power getting dialed back and I've been beating on this car now for about 15-20 minutes you know back to back acceleration runs stuff like that and you don't feel it cutting as much power yes it's Heat soaking a little bit but it's not like falling flat on its face like a lot of these eco turbocharged cars that I bought and do so that's something really positive about the

Type

R as well something if you're looking for a car like this you're not gonna have to worry about it as much there's a lot of gravel on the road so I'm not going to just destroy the pain on this car but when you really pound this around it just feels so good the power is consistent it's not a car that you're like oh my god I'm gonna lose control over everything so...
balanced even for front-wheel drive like right there I normally in a front-wheel drive car though it would just plow it off the road you would have understeered right off the road you couldn't put the power down in this car even with all the drivers aids off it just grips and that's one of the best parts about the tie bar it's a front-wheel drive car that has been designed properly to be a sporty or car or a sports car and if you're somebody that wants that you want the practicality you you don't want to deal with rear-wheel drive or you don't have the driver skill you know setup enough to move to a higher horsepower a real rear-wheel drive platform this is like crack cocaine for you because it's gonna be safe hopefully if you drive it responsibility you're not gonna kill yourself or others and it's a good learning platform so you definitely want to check this out final thoughts I've decided to record this after a week of being away from this vehicle to gain some clarity now that the fun factors worn off I can tell you this I think the new

Type

R is one of the best front wheel drive cars I've ever driven and it may even come second to the Integra

Type

R that came out in the US in the late 90s and I think I prefer the Integra

Type

R for a few reasons one it's a lot more simple there's not as much to it while still giving you the fun to drive factor but where this new ty part corrects all that is horsepower for so long...
we've complained why doesn't

Honda

give us more and more and finally we have it now yes it's still in a four popper but when you drive this car it still has elements of the old naturally aspirated motor with all the torque and all the excitement of the turbo setup I could go on and on about the mechanical aspects how good it is to drive that it shoots rainbows out of the exhaust pipes you know what most people won't care because everything that I keep hearing is people do not take this seriously and a lot of it has to do with the styling I told the owner right off the bat I wish they had a

Type

S for a variant or a touring version that stripped the body kits off the spoiler and gave you all the mechanical goodness that this car has to offer so many people will just totally blow over this car because of the styling they can't get they can't get beyond that and you know that's something for

Honda

to look at they said they're gonna have other

type

hour variants in the future so we'll have to see one of the biggest things is

Honda

reliability durability and a sports car you look at all

Honda

's past products including this vehicle and they've had their growing pains the

Civic

type

-r might have some of those issues during my drive I experienced this now the first thing I thought about when I had this gear grind issue in a second thought okay did I have my foot down did I shift yes I did I haven't had a gear grind in a manual...
transmission in a long time and I think the last time was in a

Honda

so I started looking around talking the owner and I guess this is becoming more common and if I'm having a problem with gear grinds chances are other people are now I'm gonna make a separate video about that but my point is this is a new vehicle for them modified transmission design now if you're an early adopter you might have to deal with some of these problems until they're sorted out or they might not be an issue at all the

Civic

type

-r is not perfect no car is some of the beauty in life is in the imperfections and I think if you're somebody looking for this car you're gonna get practicality drivability you can operate this everyday you can put things in it it's like a normal car but with high performance at a high level for a front-wheel drive platform I think that's the biggest thing here there's almost no penalties to driving this every day well except maybe the wheel and tire combo and the best part is the price at 33 grand u.s. this is really a steal that is of course assuming the dealerships aren't marking up the hell out of this car on average it's about one thousand to two thousand dollar markup on the incoming models some dealerships have this marked up ten to twenty thousand dollars and that is just absurd and it takes the piss out of the excitement of a car that's attainable this is a big difference for

Honda

something to be excited about for the...
enthusiasts crowd and of course it's getting ruined by greed now if FCA can rein in dealerships with the dodge demon

Honda

can do this with their dealerships I hope that the price starts to drop down but if it doesn't I would contact

Honda

directly and complain it's just ridiculous but take that for what it's worth appreciate you watching this take care a big thank you to the owner who came all the way from Canadia to bring me this

type

our thanks for thanks for coming out thank you are you gonna ride home like this yeah put it on cruise and see what happens