Review | 2017 Honda Civic Type R | A Fine Line Between Love and HateFeb 27, 2020
the CTR or Civic
type-r originally released for the 6th generation Civic in 1997, we haven't had one in the United States or North America, so people have wanted it so much that it was a car they wish they had had in the past. 90's and that ship has largely sailed for me and now finally, after all this time, we get it and we get it now, as the title of this video suggests, you have two sides of people who want to throw up and diarrhea all over the place. design of this. and then there are the people who have wanted it, who have wanted it since the day it was announced, including the owner of this car, who jumped on the bandwagon immediately, placed his order, couldn't wait, was waiting for it.
He was waiting to find the ships so he could supply the ships that were coming and then he got stuck in the train yards that the truck drivers and he finally got it and now he's driven it from Canada to Illinois and me. I can take a look at it, he wanted me to do a video on it and I can tell you that there is a level of passion here and enthusiasm for this car that I haven't seen in a long time, so whether you
hateit or you
loveit. there's something special about this and we're going to cover that now let's talk turkey about the front of this
civicand it's still a
civicdespite an r
typebadge it's based on the 10th generation architecture now they've modified it to make it a sports car like many eco hatches these days the front has an aluminum hood to save weight it has an air intake duct which is functional helps cool the engine compartment I also like the things I have here with my flapjacks after I'm done for a pancake breakfast, that's a good place to put them.
The rest of the front is mainly functional. They have air curtains that help move air across the front bumper along the side of the car to reduce drag per mile and there are a few things that help reduce lift. There's some aerodynamic function here, we still have these fake plastic vents, one so you can hear the horn better, the other is just blocked off, so there's still some of that cheesiness here, but more on that later. depth in the shop, let's take a look at the rear, now the wheelbase is the same at the tie rod as the regular Civic, it's wider now and a lot of that has to do with changing the front brakes, suspension front and these wider tires. and the wheels, it moves it out so you have to move the fenders out and that's why you have these added looking fender bulges, it gives it that aggressive look but it's also functional now as I make my way to the back, what is this?
It looks like one of those Terminator wings that were on the '90s civic vehicles that everyone used and then you found in the junkyard. This thing is ridiculous and these sharp edges are great because you walk around it and you'll get hurt. It's just overkill for what it is, but hey, do you know what the tie bar is all about? You have vortex generators on the top of the roof that help channel the airflow so this spoiler becomes functional, it creates downforce and the entire front to the rear of the car has an aerodynamic purpose that helps generate smoothness and also downforce to create stability at higher speeds.
Now let's take a look inside this hatch. This is one of the most usable practical and functional parts of this car and it's so wide there's a lot of it. depth and when you lower the seats there is nothing you have to deal with in the approach is us you don't have to adjust the lower seats and screw the headrest all I have to do is pull this oh my god it goes It goes down like a normal car and this becomes a fully usable space. It's one of the best, most practical parts of this car that we keep losing with cars like the Subaru.
We no longer have a WRX hatch. The STI is gone, so this is kind. one of the most useful replacements apart from maybe like a Golf R, last but not least this manual liftgate, easy to use, but Honda has improved the struts at the rear to aid in closing due to the extra weight added by this monstrous spoiler, now the owner says it's had some lacing, this thing doesn't close completely with heat so that's something to keep in mind if you're an owner, but the big problem here is this decal, a Canadian exclusive VTEC turbo sticker, dealerships in Canada are being invaded by Americans crossing over. the edge to try to buy them the margins are crazy if you want one they cost 700 dollars so you better do it now the inside the type r we are not going to beat this one because I have already talked about it many times with the other videos, but the difference is that you have microfiber Alcantara suede inserts on the door panels, the armrests, the seats, the details are very tasteful for the most part, but then you get to this kind of reddish cherry red trim along the dash. and I feel like I could do without it, but that's what the Type R is all about.
It's always been about adding the red on the steering wheel, the seats are red, it just stands out and screams at you much like the Type R badge of which it is a part. the experience if you didn't have it well then what's the point? One of the biggest and brightest points of this interior are these Type R seats, they are extremely comfortable, they have a ton of padding, the bolsters are a little high and it's going to be very difficult for someone who is a larger person to deal with. him and sit here, you're probably going to break the side braces that will crush, so that's something you're going to want to sit in this car and you'll know how to decide before.
You're stuck with it, the shift knob is aluminum for this car, reminds me of the s2000 CR knob with a little less weight. You've cut your R mode, your type bar badge here, really everything is a normal Civic other than that. the gauge cluster is basically the same as the SI so the bad things are still bad the infotainment sucks the fact you have to use the touchscreen for climate when the car starts you don't have access to the HVAC right away because there's so much lag and lag it's stupid, there's a volume knob, you still have to wait for it to update for that, but other than that it's civic inside and a lot of the good stuff coming out of that car is the ones I really like.
We're all here now. If you want to learn more about the interior, just check out the other Civic videos I've done, but for now let's head into the shop and take a look at some of the technical details of the tie rod. We are in the workshop. without Scott I have invited them I don't know where he is I really don't care the only thing he told me is that it is a waste of digital memory to record the type r now with that negative approach of Nancy that I am going to adopt a different one under the type R, this is It is based on the tenth generation architecture.
I said it at the beginning, so it really does look a lot like the Civic Si we just saw. There are some important differences here. This aluminum panel has an upward kick. it helps cool things down once we take all these panels off, which is ridiculous to take this whole plastic tray, it's about 30 clips, several screws, but what you can see here is there's a transmission cooler, a transmission cooler fluid because the transmission has been operated on, you can see. There's a pretty good attempt at smoothing out the airflow from front to back. Aerodynamics was a purpose.
Now the main differences you'll see are brake ducts that run from the front bumper through this rear panel and that's really the only way it works. is that it blows air, it doesn't actually have a steerer tube, it blows air and then there is a piece of dust shield on the brakes that fans out to allow air to get in there to cool the brakes, this car has literally no there are issues with braking and that's because it uses monobloc Brembo calipers on the front, a four piston unit which is extremely extremely efficient, they use a hybrid brake pad which has more metallic compound and you can tell when you're braking.
You hear a little bit of brake squeal so it doesn't fade too much like some of the more nerf sports cars do, you can hit this on the street, you can take it to the track within reason and you still know. Not losing the brakes as quickly, so that's really good in terms of chassis rigidity. There are a lot of things here that Honda did for the 10th generation Civic. There is an intensive use of structural adhesives. There are closer spot welds and of course there are reinforcing beams and higher strength steel. Well, basically, that goes all the way to the passenger seat and behind the rear suspension there are a lot of little braces here that add up a lot to this nifty brace that we found and which is probably the main reason why this car is so stiff when you pick it up. all.
By removing these panels, you can see how thick it is. I like to use it to hang clothes or as a s2000 exhaust. When we get to the suspension on the front, this is really the biggest change on the Civic Type-R and you can look at this, I'm going to put this in comparison, this is the SI suspension, it's very basic, lightweight, typical suspension strut based front, it doesn't have much circumference when you look at this, everything has been changed, here you have everything aluminum, aluminum lower control arm hub knuckle. and then the knuckle design leads to a fork that is very reminiscent of double wishbone suspension.
This fork attaches to the strut and then to the strut, you know the strut, you know the typical design all the way down, except it has adaptive dampers which we'll get into. At one point, as it goes through the suspension, as you can see, it rotates and compresses, there is a stabilizer link that goes from the lower control arm to the fork and now it is designed to help the suspension reduce torque, the Steering and reducing some of the Wheel Hop Effect When you have a lot of horsepower in a front wheel drive car, rigidity was the main focus here and that's why this car feels less front wheel drive overall.
The other thing they did was obviously stick all this stuff in here, it moves the outside wheel so it has a wider track and that's why you can't just swap this out on a normal Civic. There are modifications here to accommodate this and of course you have wider wheels and tires. Spring rates are higher on the tie rod than a normal model. Civics are twice as firm as the regular Civic hatch, about 263 in the front, 240 in the rear, when you look at it, in the back of the Civic type-r, this is where it looks like a normal Civic, except for the exhaust . which we'll get to in a minute when you look at it, it still has the same stamped steel lower control arms.
It is the normal YES that we saw now. The difference is the size of the stabilizer bar. This is a solid rear stabilizer bar. It is bigger. than the normal hatchback, the front part is a tubular bar, it is hollow in the middle but it is much stiffer than the normal hatchback. When we get to yes, they are painted red, very stylish, it has an electronic parking brake, which you know. I'm not a big fan, but the big story back here, like the front, is the adaptive dampers and unlike the Yes, you have three modes and the modes are extremely versatile in comfort mode, this one rides, if not better than a normal standard Civic, there is no penalty in terms of ride quality when driving this car, the second is sport mode which is the default way the car increases damping rates, meaning rebound and compression , the stroke is more aggressive, so you get a firmer, more controlled ride last time.
The mode is plus R which is the most aggressive setting and it still handles extremely well while providing body control and I'll talk more about that in the driving section, but these shocks are set up extremely well front and rear, literally there is almost nothing to do. complaining with a suspension setup with the exception of these ridiculous tires, they are 20 inch to 45 30 series tires, when you look at this they literally have no sidewalls, not only will they wear out fast but I can't imagine that Don't destroy a tire on these cars in a year if you're really driving.
I don't understand why they did this. I know it's part of the suspension tuning to give you the directness and steering, but I think I would almost change some of that to have more usable rubber here. The last thing to talk about is the exhaust pipes and, in true Honda fashion, they are generally quite well made, although the welds on them are not. It doesn't look very clean, as the subframe at the front looks like someone dropped it in the sand while coating it. You know, you can still tell that this is an economically built car.
Now this exhaust is one piece from here topractically the catalytic converter and it will be very expensive to replace if you destroy it now. There are some interesting parts about this. You have three tips, two of them are bigger, the middle one is smaller, so it's versatile because it fits all types of Scott likes the smaller intake, of course, now the center exhaust or the seventh muffler central are to help improve and also reduce Mina's boo, so it creates a more throaty exhaust tone at least for a four popper, but also helps eliminate some of the meanness of the boo. o o humming noise when you drive which i personally can still hear and its more in the back seat under the hood this is where everyone gets their underwear really wet about this car its a turbocharged direct injection k20 c1 tulear making over 300 horsepower.
That's all well and good, we can talk about specs for hours, but everyone wants to talk about this rear v-tex and what that means. It's not much anymore because it's not something you feel and the VTEC is only on the exhaust side. Now what does this do? It has a cam phase on both the intake and exhaust sides and that's where most of the magic and tuning happens. With this the ECU can control cam phasing, it can increase performance, it can reduce timing and do all the things you need to do to make this deliver smooth power throughout the Rev band like everything on these modern engines, the type is included it's about reducing pumping losses and reducing friction, so on the piston skirts they use a molybdenum coating, they use low friction piston rings, they have low friction oil seals, there are so many things they do here to reduce pumping losses and that improves efficiency in terms of fuel economy, which this car does a very good job of and also improves horsepower.
There are many similarities between the engine, the Civic Si and the type r engine. I'm not going to detail all of that, but you can read about it on
lineand I'll link to it. This is an electronic wastegate. The turbo is capable of producing 23.2 psi of boost and that's about 3 psi more than the Civic Si engine and the way this car delivers. Power is extremely
linear, you don't get a lot of tuning quirks that I've seen in many modern direct-injected turbocharged, eco-powered cars. This is one of the best performing turbocharged engines I have ever done, not in the bus but in really good for the price range now the big question is will it be reliable.
Honda has a history of that, but I don't want to say, hey, they've perfected this whole design, we'll have to look at it in a couple of years, if there are any lingering or lingering problems with that, but let's take this for a spin and Let's see how it works on the street. Welcome to the Type R video. First, we'll talk about something important: livability and how to feel comfortable now that it arrives. in these extremely attractive compact sports cars or hatchbacks, w
hatever you want to call them, I've been in vehicles that are absolutely a nightmare to drive every day, they sacrifice too much on the sporty side and you know when you're trying to drive like a normal person, it's just a joke.
The type is one of the most important things I can tell you about this: it has three different driving modes that adjust the shocks and damping rates depending on the performance setting you have so you have comfort. sport and plus are the plus mode. R mode is the most aggressive sport mode and is the one that comes by default every time you start the car, it doesn't remember what you put in at the end, which is a pain, and then there is the comfort mode that feels. like any other Civic it's so comfortable and so compliant you'd never imagine you're in a high performance car it doesn't raise any red flags when you put it in sport mode it's just a little firmer it's not bad at all it's more like on the level of the Civic Si in sport mode and then plus R.
I think the biggest surprise for me is that I expected it to be fully damped like a crash like the Focus RS was and that is not the case, you can tell that the engineers For this car, We were very careful in taking it to the absolute limit where the car behaved well and we dialed it back a little bit so that you never feel like you're being killed driving this car, that's one of the most important things to say there. There are almost no trade-offs for having the tie bar, so we'll look at some of the cornering in sport mode and see what the difference is with the damping and the way it handles.
The first thing you'll notice is Apart from being blocked by the person in front of you, this car has a high level of performance, it's amazing how well it drives for a front wheel drive car and I guess I don't really want to pass any judgment on the regard. this car until I drove it because how can you put 300 horsepower to the front wheels and not make it a complete disaster? So here's the reality: the VSA system is very aggressive in certain ways because the VSA system, when on, can actively brake a steering wheel to help you turn, so it's part of the driving experience.
The second thing this car will do is the electronic power steering has its own separate motor and will also help adjust the steering effort so if it is a little noticeable. of deviation in your heading, you can actually change the angle of the steering wheel and you don't really notice it, but that's how smart these systems are working together with you to make sure the car is under control, you don't feel much. of torque steer, you don't feel weird, but this car understeers, you can't escape it, it wants to push first, so I'll stop here and see what a street start plus our VSA mode is like.
Turn off the stability control and see what it would be like if you were at a stoplight without accelerating. It has a soft rubber limit at 3500 rpm. You can't rub it higher than that, so there's no point in even trying. One look: the car stalls from the start, if you don't increase the revs which are typical of any turbocharged car, you need to increase the revs to get the boost to get you off the line faster, otherwise it's like, what? what's happening? It's happening and it finally picks up on this thing, it just rips right up to the redline, it's really impressive, let's take this through some corners and not be really hard just to see the suspension rise.
I think the most important thing about the Type R is that I'm surprised, I didn't expect this to work so well. Even in higher-hour mode, the suspension is just as compliant when you're driving at about 9/10, as it is if you were driving on the street. I mean, people aren't going to drive this flat. Going out on the street is just dangerous, but you can do it and that's without making corrections, trying to get the rear to turn in the corners, there's minimal understeer, there's minimal push, it's something you wouldn't expect from a car with that much power. the front wheels, I talk about this a lot now, the old front wheel drive horse, you know, the muscle cars like the mazdaspeed3, were horrible, it would push and push and push and just rip the steering wheel out of your hand from the torque. steering like this isn't this even if you don't know how to drive it's not going to be invasive you're not going to think about it oh my god this is front wheel drive it's horrible now let's talk about this steering it has a variable gear ratio steering rack what that What it means is that it can change the ratio depending on the conditions, it can also change it according to the driving modes, so when you're in Sport+, the steering mechanism I feel when you enter our plus mode. or furthermore, the steering wheel becomes extremely tight, the ratio becomes tighter, so when you turn it is more immediate now, the lower you go in the settings from sport and comfort, the looser the steering wheel becomes, the more comfortable it becomes, the more There is less resistance when you turn, so technically it should be a good thing: you get immediate response from the steering, it feels very fast, but my problem is that it is quite simple when you go into AR plus mode, the car is too sensitive and the steering It's too much my taste and I've been in a lot of cars and you have to understand this.
I've been in and out of some really extreme high-end sports cars and a good sports car doesn't mean the steering has to be instantaneous. when you move it to a millimeter and I feel like the advantage is that our setup is trying to satisfy what people think is good steering versus what is good steering, it alters the car when you turn it a millimeter and you want turn in and a car. It's an overreaction, so I prefer the comfort mode steering setting. Now the only problem with that in the tie bar is that they don't allow you to customize these modes.
It's basically your heart setup, you can't mix and match acceleration modes. with the steering modes and that's a big disappointment and I think that's one of the shortcomings of this car overall, which says that the manual transmission in this car is really good. I've heard people say it's the best manual transmission they've ever driven. and i think that's total nonsense, honestly it's good and it's one of the best for a modern front wheel drive car, but if you go in if you've been in other manual transmission cars like the s2000, the GT 86 or the 86, the MD Miata. like the Porsche GT to the GT 350, all those cars have better transmissions than this one, but I really like the way it's super direct, it feels almost like it has a mechanical link, it doesn't, but the directness is there, The heel to toe downshift is not as much of an issue in this car as it was in the SI I drove.
I mean, it's a really fun car to start up and rip apart, and even if you don't know how to use a manual transmission properly, you can. To cure the toe downshift or rub match downshift, they allow you to activate the rev matching downshift mode and like all modern car greatness, you have to stop and enable it in the damn gear screen. information and entertainment. There is no Mickey, there is no physicality. button for that so it's kind of a joke but you can do it if you want and then don't hit me but you have to learn to drive well with the stick.
I mean, you still have to learn how to drive stick, but you don't I don't have to learn the nuances of driving stick, now someone said this car can go between one hundred and sixty to seventy miles per hour, which I don't know. I think it takes a pretty big stretch of road, but let's take a look at it and see how it works. accelerates to man speeds, that feels really good, really, really good. I'm surprised how fast this car accelerates. When you look at the amount of horsepower for the weight it carries, you would never expect this car to pull that hard.
It does and the best part is the tuning. I complained about some tuning on the b and no you get some of the weirdness here with this car that you did with the b. There is not so much friction, you don't notice it. It's just that the power is going down and I've been hitting this car for about 15 to 20 minutes. You know, back-to-back acceleration does stuff like that and you don't feel like it's cutting off as much power. Yes, the heat absorbs a little. But it's not like falling flat on your face like a lot of these eco-friendly turbocharged cars I bought and do.
That's something really positive about the Type R and something that if you're looking for a car like this you won't get. There's a lot of gravel on the road, so I'm not going to just destroy the pain of this car, but when you really hit it, it feels so good that the power is consistent, it's not a car that's like, "Oh my God, I'm going to losing control over everything, so balanced, even for front wheel drive", like there, normally in a front wheel drive car, even though I would just run it off the road, you would have understeered right off the road.
On the road you couldn't put down the power of this car, even without all the driver aids, it just grips and that's one of the best parts about the tie rod. It's a front-wheel drive car that's been properly designed to be a sports car or a sports car, and if you're someone who wants practicality, doesn't want to deal with rear-wheel drive, or doesn't have the driving skills, you know enough to move on. higher power. a real rear wheel drive platform this is like crack for you because it will be safe hopefully if you drive it responsibly you won't kill yourself or others and it is a good learning platform so you will definitely want to check it out this.
I've decided to record this after a week of being away from this vehicle to gain some clarity now that the fun factors are gone. I can tell you this. I think the new Type R is one of the best front-wheel drive cars I've ever owned. ever driven and may even come in second to the Integra Type R that came out in the US in the late 90's and I think I prefer the Integra Type R for several reasons, one is that it is much simpler and there is no So much to do at the same time. giving you the fun factor of driving, but where this new part corrects all thehorsepower for so long, we've complained about why Honda doesn't give us more and more and we finally have it now, yes it's still in a four popper, but when?
When you drive this car, it still has elements of the old naturally aspirated engine with all the torque and all the excitement of the turbo setup. I could go on and on about the mechanical aspects, how great it is to drive, how it shoots rainbows out of the exhaust. pipes, you know what most people won't care because all I keep hearing is that people don't take this seriously and a lot of it has to do with style. I told the owner from the beginning. I wish they had a Type S for a variant or a touring version that removed the spoiler body kits and gave it all the mechanical goodness this car has to offer, so many people will just ignore it completely because of the styling they can't get. look beyond that and you know it's something Honda needs to consider.
They said they will have other Hora type variants in the future so we will have to see one of the most important things is reliability, Honda durability and a sports car. All of Honda's previous products, including this vehicle, have had their growing pains, the Civic Type-R might have some of those issues during my drive. I experienced this now, the first thing I thought of when I had this gear grinding problem on a second thought. Well, did I put my foot down? Did I change? Yes, I do. I haven't had a gear squeak in a manual transmission in a long time and I think the last time was in a Honda so I started looking around, talking to the owner and I guess.
This is becoming more common and if I have a problem with gear noise, chances are other people do too. I'm going to do a separate video on that, but what I mean is that this is a new vehicle for them, with a modified transmission design now if you are an early adopter, you may have to deal with some of these issues until they are fixed or they may not be a problem at all. The Civic Type-R is not perfect. No car.Part of the beauty of life is in the imperfections and I think if you are someone looking for this car, you will get driving practicality, you can operate it every day, you can put things in it, it is like a normal car but with high performance. at a high level for a front wheel drive platform, I think that's the most important thing here, there are almost no penalties for driving this well every day, except maybe the wheel and tire combination, and the best part is the price of 33 thousand dollars.
This is truly a steal, which of course assumes dealers aren't discounting this car that much - on average, there's a thousand to two thousand dollar markup on incoming models. Some dealers have this ten to twenty thousand dollar surcharge and that is just absurd and takes the excitement out of a car being attainable. This is a big difference for Honda, something to be excited about for the enthusiast crowd and of course greed will ruin it now if FCA can control the dealers with the dodge demon Honda can do this with their dealers. I hope the price starts to drop but if it doesn't I would contact Honda directly and complain, it's just ridiculous but take it for what it's worth, I appreciate you seeing this, take good care of yourself.
Thanks to the owner who came all the way from Canada to bring me this guy. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Are you going to travel home like this? Yes, put it on cruise and see what happens.
If you have any copyright issue, please Contact