Rethinking Thinking: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?

We will gain a lot just by comparing what genes dogs have that are different from cats. That's not what makes them dogs, that's what makes them different from cats. So if you compare us to

other

primates, you won't find what makes us human. You are going to find out what makes us not a monkey, but were you surprised by the resistance within the scientific community to your empirical research? I showed the lack of exceptionality. On the one hand, I was yes because I had already realized that people I have a great respect and belief for textbooks and if it is written in a textbook then it must be an absolute truth and you know I grew up during the military government In Brazil, my parents were rebellious in their own way and we, my sister and I, grew up. not buy anything simply because we were told that this is the truth and therefore something that is written in a textbook to me is something that is written in a textbook and can be rewritten one day, so there is that respect for something that someone else already said and how dare you say the opposite?

On the

other

hand, I was never trained to do what I do. I didn't get a PhD in anatomy, it was something else. I really had no pedigree at the time I was working in Brazil. It didn't even have a laboratory in Brazil. At first I was working in a borrowed space in a collaborator's lab and then, out of nowhere, this newspaper appears where this fancy lady with a lady from Latin America is going to turn brains into soup. Yes, I had comments from people saying that these disciplines are unethical. She is pulling. far away she is dissolving macaque brains and throwing away everything that is waste and I had to explain to her that no, it's not really waste.

I have several freezers full of brain soup in my laboratory. I don't throw anything away, but I keep everything, we can always use it again. There are so many new questions waiting to be asked that we already have the material stored in our laboratory. Very good, Susana, thank you. It's a great start. Now that we've established our place in the pecking order, we'll talk to a group of scientists. whose work is reshaping our understanding of animal intelligence, who joins us now, is the founder of the wild dolphin project and has been studying a community of Atlantic spotted dolphins in the Bahamas for more than three decades.

She is also a professor of Biological Sciences at Florida Atlantic University and her focus is dolphin behavior and communication. Please welcome Denise Herzing, so Denise. I don't need to tell you that this idea of ​​communicating and talking to

animals

, which I understand you have wanted to do since your son has long occupied a really special place in our cultural and scientific imagination and we apologize. Here is a short video to help set the stage for the next phase of our discussion. Talk to

animals

. It's impossible, but it's true. It's too good to not be true. Because?

It's good he says we're as gentle as he is in the case of talking to dolphins the truth has been stranger than fiction in the 1960s neuroscientist John Lilly took a completely immersive approach by flooding the first floor of a house with water to That a research assistant could live with a dolphin 24 hours a day for months and teach it to speak English. The bottom line is that real life didn't work out as well as fiction. How do you feel when you look at that? Well, science has come a long way since then. Well, and you know, honestly, chimpanzee workers also started trying to get chimpanzees to speak and use English words by shaping their mouths and they just don't have the anatomy to make those sounds right, neither do dolphins, but that shows how human-centric our approach has been to get them to speak not only human language but also English of course, right, I should probably try teaching them Portuguese, the really most common language.

Could someone design an experiment like that today? No, I think we're smarter than that. First we want to really look at your own communication system to try to understand it and then there have been quite a few interfaces and keyboards designed so that many animals can bridge the gap correctly, that's how we would approach it scientifically these days. So would you say the Dolphins' failure was actually a sign of our lack of intelligence? You know that the methods are all correct, so the methods arise from our vision about what we think animals should do, what they might want to do and yes, it is definitely lack of knowledge about the animal often, which is why you have adopted a very different approach to your dolphin research, who or what inspired you to head to the ocean to study dolphins in their natural habitat.

Well, Jane Goodall was a model for me, she was someone who had stood out. I was in the forest to look at chimpanzees in their natural environment and in their society and we had Dian Fossey looking at gorillas, so I decided to go out and try to do it with dolphins because I didn't know anyone who was doing that and I thought oh well. I'm young, I'm naive, I can do that. I find it interesting that the people you name are all women who maybe were humble enough to walk into another environment and say honey, maybe I will. your leadership to figure out how we can come together well.

I think that happened with anthropologists. It also gave a new view of anthropology and, from a relationship, perhaps what the challenges are of studying dolphins in the wild. How long do we have to find them? We worked on the water because I really wanted to find a place where I could observe their behavior and sound together for the long term, whether it's money, boat time, teamwork, all that, but that's true for most field work, is that true? How do they react when you, I mean, you? I've been working with the same group for a while, but there was an initiation process where they had to trust you and that's not really understood well when I talk about my job because I work in a fairly remote area in the Bahamas and so first time. five years I literally anchored our boat and let them search us five years five years because the idea was that I didn't want to run and harass them and, you know, try to chase it so that we would be on our boat the Dolphins were known to pass through that area and They had been curious about some of the treasure hunting boats in that area, but we would just slip in the water as they passed by the boat, try to take our little ID photos and try to sex their male with the females, but we couldn't see lots of real perspectives and then they went on their way and he came back to the boat and then they started showing us so we started moving the boat and following him. they took them to areas where they were engaging in that behavior and to me that was an investment in their relationship and you've been doing this with this particular group of dolphins for almost 40 years, 35 years, 35 years, so what are the key signs? from The Intelligence of Dolphins, well, that's a great question, you know, how do you measure intelligence?

That's all the discussion this afternoon, but people often say, "Oh, dolphins, they're so smart." Well, let's pass the existing test, okay? As for the brain, one of the measures is the physical encephalization quotient, the brain-to-body ratio, which we now know is not necessarily true, it is the only measure, but they rank just below humans in terms of EQ. , at least in the measurements that I know of. even above the big eight EQ emotional EQ, there's no encephalization oh thank you oh great, yeah, no, it's not emotional right, you know, they do it with your tools, believe it or not, there's a place in Australia where they carry a sponge in their little rostrum beak and chase poisonous fish and save themselves from stings, can understand artificial languages ​​that humans present to them with gesture languages ​​such as American Sign Language and acoustic languages, and passed mirror self-image tests which we have used with chimpanzees and now with many others. meanings they see themselves in a mirror they recognize them well they perform exploratory behaviors instead of

thinking

it is another animal so they pass those tests they are good at solving problems they can understand abstract ideas like they can watch television and understand signals, which is Probably not a great thing, but what does it mean that they can watch television and understand?

In one of the best-known cognitive labs that were in Honolulu, Hawaii for many decades, they were taught an artificial language in real time by the pool, but then one day they put a trainer on the television underwater for the dolphins and the trainer was doing the gestures and you know this is no longer three dimensional it's a two dimensional summary and the dolphins could figure out what the signal was right away and I did the specific task and I think it's probably weird so now all the dolphins want iPads oh Hi, so what are the main differences between the way dolphins and humans communicate and interact with the world?

Well, dolphins are primarily acoustic, so again they live in a three-dimensional world, they use sound most of the time, they're actually blind in front of their eyes, you know, their eyes are a little bit to the side, so They don't actually have visual information, so they use sound to project and recover. information so that they can make sense of their world, so that they have a truly exquisite ear, an exquisite production. I mean, they're mammals in the water, basically with some adaptations and they use echolocation. Can you explain what that means? I'm sure they basically blow their own blowhole. some different air sacs, kind of like a balloon, when you know, squeak a balloon so they make sounds that will bounce off the parabolic front part of their brain, their skull, and project them out. sounds, it goes through this fatty structure that people often think is their brain, but it's a fatty thing called a melon, they send out the clicks and it bounces back like a fish coming back, so they're mammals, they have inner ears like us. but they don't have proper external ears to receive sound, so the sound actually passes through their lower jaw and into their inner ear, which is basically a similar mechanism, so they are really acoustic and directional, so They send high frequencies. they push the low frequencies to the side and make it really difficult for researchers because they can actually internally focus their sound twenty degrees away, so if you're trying to pick up the sound from the front you don't know if you're doing it because they might just be haha, it sounds like this, so it is a challenge, yes, one of the ways you approach the challenges of communicating with dolphins, this form of breakthrough is the chatbox, please tell us about your chatbox, well, the Most of what we do is actually observe, record your sounds and analyze them. but many years ago we started to notice that they were very curious about us on a specific level and we thought: you know, people have made keyboards for dolphins in captivity, why don't we make a keyboard for these semi-friendly dolphins in the wild, who knows? ?

Do you know where I could go? The so-called chat box is basically an underwater computer and it has a speaker that makes sounds, some hydrophones that receive sounds and then this is the keyboard with which I will play a specific repertoire of sounds that are already in the system. and the idea is that maybe we could agree on some sounds between us to bridge the gap with this technology being more like a dolphin so we are making sounds that label things correctly so that we have toys that they naturally play with, toys that we bring into the water and The idea is that if they want to imitate the sounds that we designed for dolphins to imitate, then we can show them what they can get from them and maybe we could start talking about a piece of Sargassum seaweed or we could start talking. about a turtle lit swimming buyer is something like that, the idea is to create a very small vocabulary with them potentially and in the chat there is an acronym that means is for a cetacean ear and augmented telemetry ooh that's scary there are a lot of imitations of dolphins, porpoises The whale is ready, great, so you made sure that the word Sargassum is correct.

Sargassum is a type of seaweed, the national toy, it is a natural toy that they like to play with. Well, so you created a dolphin game to see if you could come up with something similar. -about the sound of the dolphin that would be like a word SAR gasps well, they create the game so this for example is this is a mother and her calf this is taro she is about 35 years old in this shot this is her one year old copper and this is a game they play with each other, we didn't invent the game, okay?

So this is a game they play, so the mother has the sargassum on her tail and she can see the little hats trying to reach it, he says and so on. she's trying to learn, teach him to play sarcasm, but they do this with us, so she just let him, he got it, so this is the game they play and it's fun, and how did she do with you? ThisSo now he has it in his pectoral fin and the momentum of action submerges in tritak. Cool, they like to be chased, so the game is you never get really cool.

They are much better at swimming than us, yes, but. because it was a natural toy, we labeled it with a whistle and you gave it a different name, exactly, yeah right, and they hear the whistle, so if you had the box on and I had the box on, if you wanted that piece of sargasso. to me, you would press the keyboard to get the sarcasm result. I would hear it in my ear and I know you want to do a circus and I would give it to you. Well, so the idea is that they are watching this, the dolphins are watching. this and if they imitate this sound, I would also listen to it in my headphones and I say, oh, maybe the dolphin wants a sarcasm, so it's a modeling technique that has worked for types of cross-species experiments and it did, what works?

Sargasso sounds good, yes, no, so again, our technology is far behind what they are doing, so we programmed the computer to the level where we thought we would recognize that they are imitators, but they would do things as if they imitated to Sargasso. It was still better to go up an octave so the computer wouldn't recognize it or it would be a little bit late and maybe stretched or something, so we're still fighting to improve the technology because they're showing us how they want. to imitate it properly and we're trying to catch up with how they want to do it so they're actually imitating it it's just different frequencies that the chat box wasn't set up correctly how did you find out?

I looked at the data, I mean, this is after three years of data, so they have all these ultrasonic sounds, this is a spectrogram, the bottom left corner shows what a dolphin's whistle looks like and all the other information is this. Kind of like a musical score, its pitch vertically and the time. horizontally and then the brightness of the sound is the volume, but they're making sounds way above our hearing range so they can do things that we don't hear and it's possible that the computer The sound files examined all the potential imitations and we found imitations in many different places, but the computer did not activate them due to our strict, perhaps a little naive,

thinking

of what they might be. be and what they should be doing right, because doing this in captivity putting human barriers around the technological limitations too yeah, I mean we knew they could do that octave jump and all that, but sometimes it's also just technical barriers, but Were you thinking they weren't imitating these words and then?

Suddenly, during your research, you realize that it was something rewarding once while you were there, why do you go? It sounds like a minute like we all showed up a minute ago, but then the computer didn't tell us it was an imitation, so we thought we would go back and look at the previous sounds, we looked well, they were doing the partial imitation, that's why the computer didn't He recognized it, but he sure did. it sounded, you could almost tell out of the water it was imitation, but you want the data to be correct, you have to have the data, you keep saying the word imitate, it's probably a careful choice, does that mean they're understanding like Helen Keller knowing what is the water now?

Dolphins are excellent imitators, they are visual imitators, acoustic imitators, they do this in their own communication, so you can imitate something without understanding the function of that sound, so the first idea is that they imitate the sound and then learning the function of what gives them the imitation of that sound, yes, it's like your child is right there, they are understanding before they produce words, yes, and that's why they hear the word milk in many different contexts, oh, here's the milk, oh . Go get the milk from the counter, dear, do you want the milk? So they're hearing the word in a broader context with activity, so those are the ideas that they will eventually learn the function of that sound, so we still have to really know if they understand that. and the way they would do it is you would change the toys in the water, yeah, and you would play a different sound, a different label for that toy and see if they would imitate that or they would ask you for a toy that you didn't have or that you had.

Your methods would be ways to test it, but it's a slow process and these are wild animals, so they have interesting lives without us, wait, why is there a window of time, you know, we can have their attention and try this, so now, Thanks Denise. Now let's move on to another incredibly

intelligent

underwater animal. Our next guest is okay. Isn't that underwater animal? our next guest is a professor of psychology at Brooklyn College where he runs the biomimetic and cognitive robotics lab and studies octopuses among other creatures, please. welcome Frank Grasso, okay, so hello, you know, now we're going to turn to this completely different form of almost alien intelligence.

Octopus intelligence has actually been called the closest we can come to understanding alien intelligence. Okay, I think I think that's fair and I think the fundamental reason for this, going back to the kind of things that Suzanne and we've been talking about, is that the structure of their brain is fundamentally different, but they interact with the world in a way similar to the way we interact with it. They have a structurally very different brain and a small body that is very, very different, but they are actually able to interact with the world even though their brain doesn't have a neocortex or anything like that that we're familiar with when we think about humans. brains and I think you brought a friend to demonstrate this along with your entourage of friends, who are your research assistants, back there we have Hector Suzanne and Maya, all the octopus Wranglers from Brooklyn College and they will make sure that qualia here we don't We don't get into any trouble while we because we don't want any King Kong episode here, so this octopus is called qualia this octopus is called qualia and we have some things that we are going to ask qualia to do, but I want you to understand that this is a very

intelligent

animal and it may just pout a little and decide to stay in a corner, but luckily we have wonderful cameras here, so at least you'll be able to see an octopus, maybe there. is back there can we put the camera to see qualia and you know qualia is a he's right actually you know okay we just check so with this species we long to postpone the blemished ladies we can't know until after they die and we look in, but one of the most important things you can see about the qualia here is their suction cups and a large portion of the octopus's brain is actually distributed within its arms or its arms, so it has a central brain and then a distributed brain that works around the fools and controls them all.

The first thing we're going to do is see how motivated the quale is, so Hector and Maya, would you mind taking the lid off? So let's supply a crab, this is like candy to many octopuses, so maybe qualia will get very excited. You can see qualia starting to move inside the tank now, if you look at qualia, if she starts or he starts to get excited, it can change color. darken put a body pattern and why would I call you change colors well you know we could talk about animal emotions we don't know if these animals have emotions but it is a reflection of the internal states of the animals you see their reddish dots starting to appear There, on the surface , the animal has control with its brain of thousands, literally thousands of little colored packets that it can turn on and off at will to blend into the background and obviously he is controlling or she is controlling herself, but I don't think that the qualia is. particularly motivated now, okay, let's give the qualia a moment and back up, will you tell us where the octopus sits on the evolutionary tree with respect to mammals?

It is surely the common ancestor of mammals and octopuses or cephalopods, the group from which they come. 505 million years ago, so they were the first cephalopods about a hundred million years ago, but the branch was five hundred and five million years ago, before bony fish existed, there were creatures that could be considered cephalopods that basically dominated the seas and so they don't have bones in their bodies, they don't have muscles to control those bones, but one way they interact with the world is to have their bones as substitutes muscle for bone and pull muscle against muscle to reshape the body so The octopus can extend its arm in the same way we do, but then it can stretch and reshape the arm.

The cock becomes as long as it needs to reach something up to about twice its length so they can do this. They can reshape their body to fit. through small spaces and going to the kind of things that Suzanne has talked a lot about, the brain could be dedicated just to motor control for this real, strange way of interacting with the world, so evolutionarily that they are very old, very different of us and how far back did they divide without a common ancestor? The common answers go back to five hundred and five million years ago and have been evolving for five hundred and five million years with this body and this brain plan that is fundamentally different from ours and as I mentioned before.

The really wonderful and surprising thing is that they interact with the world in the same way that we do. They give us some examples because that points to their intelligence and that shows their intelligence. I think so. I think so. So you could give an octopus a novel. object like a jar that in this evolutionary history has not been exposed and can learn to move its arms and its suction cups and coordinate them to be able to open that jar and access the contents and are you the person who decided to give a jar to an octopus, I mean, is this happening in your lab?

A jar happens in my lab and the first studies that showed this were here's a video of it, right, she still has quality, okay, it's a beautiful quality, yeah, she probably is. on his or her body patterns and let's review, she is moving, did she eat the crab yet? And I have a feeling she's Jesus, he's not really shy right now, but I think she might be a little disoriented with all the lights and stuff, so do you think now isn't the time to ask her to open a jar? ? Should we wait? Should we hand it over to him?

Know? What I think we should do is keep the conversation going, but ask Maya and Suzanne to put out two jars. Let's do a little experiment. Here is a jar that she has been exposed to before and she may feel comfortable opening it. Then there is a bottle that is completely new, so let's go. doing a Maya experiment, can you indicate which is the familiar jar and which is the unknown jar? So the ones with the black cap are a little bit narrow, it's narrower, yes, and you can all pay attention to me, but you can also pay attention to the qualia. go ahead and oh please don't you pay attention all the quality is there with a jar what I want to tell you that it could take a while what I want to tell you is that what you get grabs well so we wanted to give you a crab that only likes to give it a reward at the beginning we're flying ah that's right to give her the feeling that this is an environment that's safe for her okay and you know if she's also indicated by her mood and she's probably a little disoriented being here, but she was enough oriented enough to be able to take this shit, which is great, so I was going to say we'll let it go and when she decides to take the bottle, maybe you'll see that as we talk and the thing is, go ahead Maya, there's air inside the bottle and a crab, so you should be able to see in the glass, but you'll know he's opened the bottle if you see it.

The air bubbles rise, so when Quaglia was first given a jar, he had never seen one before nor had he seen another octopus do this, that's right, and we have a video of the first attempt of an octopus that actually did this and that we can identify and play. You will be able to see the octopus and solve the problem. How long it takes? Well, it's actually just a few seconds and you have to watch closely because it's a flurry of arms and suction cups, so there's an older octopus. the feeling from a couple of years ago and your first try and like my childproof pill bottles that's the next experiment notice the black spot on the side with the blue rings inside that's why It's called macular, it's actually a nice bottle. there is another one on the other side of the animal's body that you can use to fool the predator into thinking it is much bigger than it is deception right now octopuses, okay and I looked it up it is octopuses because it is a Greek word and not octopuses, True, octopuses can use tools, we have this great video.

Oh, call us, really check it out under the crab. Do you think we should wait and see what he does or should we watch the video of an octopus using tools? Do you think I could act quickly? moving as if in realitycrab had your attention, okay, but this could take quite a while, like I told you, she's under, she's under a really unusual set of circumstances, let's get on with the video, she's a diva, I love it, oh, if you look below. in her net you will see that she still has the crabs there, she hasn't eaten them, she can take the food with her that I have eaten, she should pose, take 50 crabs and keep them underneath for later in 5050, okay then we should run the video , yes, let's run the video, please, let's watch the video, watch this, it's like I came from Trader Joe's, so this octopus is carrying two half coconut shells and he has kept them with him or her.

This is in the field, obviously, not in the laboratory. Look at the coordination of the arms using her suction cups to hold the two halves of the coconut shell together and she brings us with her like a sort of home and look at how she can use her suction cups and her arms now, this is not something one would think that she would have had experience with this is probably what we would call an innovation that not all members of this species of octopus octopus anemia assigned ax do this but individual animals innovate or hate produce novel behaviors novel ways of using objects and the activist I saw these shells and I thought I can use them to protect myself.

I don't know if that's what you think, but it certainly represents a type of planning and certainly a use of resources. For a long time, ideas about intelligence were the tools that human beings used. and nothing else does nothing else does it and humans have language and nothing else does and the problem with that is that it is not very scientific its intelligence is what humans do using tools it is what humans do and when you define it That way you can't investigate it other than looking at humans and saying they are using tools. When you have something like this, you have an example of tool use and it's an example of another species with a completely foreign brain using a tool.

Now we can argue about the definition of tool use, but then we have to figure out what the hell is going on. with this octopus, but I see what I'm doing, which is so typical of humans, we were saying, oh, it's smart because it does something that we do, but there's something that octopuses do that we can't camouflage, that's right, we talked about it Please, that's so fascinating, so I mentioned that the quality is the chromatophores and there were millions of them, can we? Look at the quality of what we're talking about just in case something happens, okay, go ahead, okay. , and the wonderful thing about this is that it is a system controlled by the brain, you have heard of chameleons, right?

Chameleons change color and match, okay? match your hormonal environment II and it takes a long time within a few milliseconds qualia can send neural impulses from your brain to remodel your body and change the color of your body to blend in with the background or communicate with other animals while drugged contrast with a pattern high contrast. Can we see the video? Look at this now. Try to find the octopus that everyone sees. You've practiced with qualia, so the animal was blending into the background by changing its color to match the algae it was on. but also remodeling their skin to match the pattern of the algae.

Now what you have to recognize in terms of intelligence is that the animal looked at the world, shaped its body to do that, and then thought about what a predator would see when it looks. To me, I wasn't just reflecting the background I was sitting on, I was projecting an image of what I could allow myself to use the word imagine that a predator would be seeing now, this could be something constructed by evolution or it could be something that it is innovated in individual cases by individual animals, but no matter what the animal's body is built to withstand this and the animal's brain in parallel controls millions and millions of parts in an instant and can change them, it will do those things. and we're going to hear a little bit about that with our next guest because that kind of collective behavior where many small parts have a set of simple rules that are coordinated is exactly what's happening inside the skin, the brain and the side of the octopus. of the brain of dolphins and within almost all mammals that exist.

I love you for giving me my Segway, which is so eloquent, it's a good but first, but before we move on to our next guest, I think he dropped the microphone with the octopuses and his instant can. The camouflage is that, aren't they color blind? Yes, you are absolutely right, so they don't even know what colors need to change or what colors can change, so some, being scientists, I'm a little more conservative, what we know is that there are no visual pigments in people's eyes. Color-matching octopuses basically all have some type of photopigment, but what they do have is the ability to see polarized light, so it's very likely that their brains will be able to interpret the patterns of light coming through. a combination of polarized light and then light intensity and contrast as a way of organizing their skin to do that, but the reason they probably do it is an evolutionary story: those who discovered that trick could survive being eaten by fish, so their brains evolved to fool a fish's eye, which is essentially a human eye.

Their brains have a bit of our brain built in as a defense against predators like us. Frank, thank you qualia, thank you, you can continue to seize your moment. There our next guest, last but not least, is a professor from the New Jersey Institute of Technology, where he runs the swarm laboratory. He's a biologist who studies collective behaviors in slime mold, army ants, elephants and robots please welcome Simone Gagne Simonne I don't know if. You realize this, but I love that your word cloud has this giant slime mold coming out of the audience when you're introduced.

I love it, now we're going to move on to a totally different type of intelligence, as Frank so eloquently said. Sure it distorts the strange and surprising intelligence of swarms and collective behavior, but before we go there, Simone has asked us all to pause for a moment and consider the pups. It's really quite hypnotic. It's amazing that in real time they move so fast. I think this one is fast-paced, that's just amazing, he works all the time. I usually play twice because the audience always asks for it again, yes, so these families, Ramone, are undeniably cute, a great way to make an entrance, but why is this puppy pinwheel a good place to Let's start when we talk about swarm intelligence, well, that's probably the best way to explain something we call self-organization, the CID, which is simply through interactions between pups, in this particular case, a pup pushes a pup, pushes a pup , pushes a puppy. a kind of collective organization sounds like a daycare yes, then it is a natural organization its self-organization arises from the interactions between the puppies without any type of central control there is no one in charge in the group of puppies there is no boss of puppies i.e.

Basically telling all the puppies to roll over, so the reason the behaviors exist is not that in this particular case there probably isn't any adaptive reason, but it's simply because they push each other and physical force just It is transmitted from puppy to puppy. puppy and goes back to the first puppy and goes on and on and on his way. I mean, it's very cute and distracting, but it's really efficient, well, yeah, I mean, it allows the group to coordinate their behavior or get in sync in this particular. case on a scale that is much larger than the scale of the individual himself, right?

You could imagine doing these things in a puppy ball that's like 10 miles in diameter, as long as you have enough puppies and enough food, this thing will continue to function properly and so on. The beauty of that simple principle is a simple interaction at points, if you like, it's a physical interaction, is that these can propagate to a very large scale and organize the group at very large scales and so how does this principle relate of self-organization with Well, your research on army ants, so the research that I do essentially is trying to understand intelligence above intelligence, if you want, we have many intelligence organisms and they may not be as intelligent, but they have capabilities to do some nice things. intelligent behavior for creatures with 200-300 thousand neurons, but what makes them super efficient by nature is this ability to coordinate their behavior throughout the colony, so that, while each individual has a very small number of neurons as a collective, The colony has great computing power. and they can achieve this through the principle of self-organization, so this idea that by interacting with each other and slightly modifying the behavior of others and propagating them throughout the colony, a very high level of organization can be achieved without the need for architects or bosses. . or someone with enough brain power to organize the entire colony, so when someone says how smart ants are, they're not, they're not like an ant and then this is pretty stupid, so good with a French accent, yeah, yeah, when you put ants together they are together, they are actually able to achieve that by solving problems that are much bigger than one, any ant could solve it on its own, but how do they know what to do?

No, the queen isn't even one. In charge now is Queen Helsley, I mean, the queen's role is to breed eggs and new workers for the colony, so it's the equivalent of the reproductive organs in an organism, it's the equivalent of the reproductive organs which are the organs. reproductive. organs sorry for my French it happens a lot of times I love it um very good, so they don't know what to do, how things are done, so they know what to do locally, right, they perceive certain information in their environment and they use that information. decide what to do next, but they don't have a big picture of what is happening at the colony level.

A single ant is not able to collect all the information and process all that information that is happening at the colony level in the same way. So you don't know what's happening in Los Angeles right now, you don't have that information, but you're here behaving based on the low tones that you get from the environment, so every ant behaves like that, but through the evolution, the way they have done it. They learned to react to these signals, particularly social signals, to the social information that they receive from other ends, and how they receive that information depends on the use of tactile signals, they touch each other, you can see them drumming, Anthony was there in the head of the other, it's very cute, they used a lot of yes, I can do that, they also use a lot of pheromones, so the smells essentially carry some information and tell us what's going on here.

No, these are means for these ants that are found in Central and South America and they are migratory ants, unlike other extremes, which have a fixed nest and then look for food around that nest, these extremes actually every night They pack up the entire colony, which may be at some point, a million individuals move it throughout the forest up to 300 meters away and then rebuild their colony. there and to facilitate the movement of this huge army of ants, it's a million ants, it's like the equivalent of the city of Philadelphia or something like that, they have this adaptation that allows them to form these bridges, this ladder linking it to each other and allowing them cover gaps in their path and allow them to shorten their path to their next destination, but you're not saying that because the individual ant doesn't come to that gap and say, you know what I'm going to do.

I'm going to stop here and make a bridge with all my colleagues, yeah, your company, right, that happens, so what we think is happening here is when an ant got to the side of a space, it has to slow down, right? ? They fall and the ants coming up behind don't slow down, they essentially see an end in front of them and you step over it and that tactile signal is all the soul needs that the ants are below to know it has to stop. and stop moving to the right, then when you win, when you're done, start building these bridges.

Basically the only rules they have is that as long as someone walks over me, I don't move, that's all they need to know in order to build. these things and then we've done a mathematical model in a computer model that shows that that's all we need to produce these behaviors and what's happening here, in this particular video, you have to imagine that it's actually a horizontal surface, just film from above. At the ends, we forced the ends to take a short detour along the trail, but normally that trail would be straight here and we forced that detour along the trail and then they started building a bridge on top of that kind of V shape and then Slowly they will move the bridge towardsdown in that V shape, shortening the deviation we have imposed.

I don't know if you can see this slowly, but it is present, so you can take it or you can take certain types of scientists. can take all this kind of movement I wouldn't call it it's not called decision making right these patterns I don't want to be friends here we go wait but this how is this? this benign these patterns of behavior can be converted into mathematical can be converted into a mathematical equation, yes, a lot of the work we do is go to the field, this was filmed in Panama, this is studied in the forest, we take it to the laboratory, we study individual behaviors and then we convert it into computer program algorithm and then we can show that these algorithms, the simple decision-making rules that they have are enough to reproduce this collective organization at the colony level and then we pass it to the engineers and you know, confiscated properties, etc. people use this mathematics and this computer program that we have created that adapts it to solve problems that they have.

I once interviewed someone at Southwest Airlines who took ant behavior and applied it to the boarding process, believe it or not, but that's the kind of thing we can learn, so there's actually a kind of algorithm called Ant colony optimization algorithm I use to optimize the past that information or goods have to take on the network to get from point A to point B, so you are trying to find the shortest path between point A and point B in the complex network, these algorithms are used and they define a solution very close to the optimal one for that problem that is normally very complicated to solve, so you can think of a swarm as a single collective brain.

We use the term superorganism when we talk about these systems in the sense that they are organisms made of organisms. An organism is something that can reproduce. Something that can feel the environment. Reacts to the environment. Something that will develop and become more and more complex. over time, but a colony is the same thing when it has a cell as its base unit, it has other organisms and yes, we think of that as a kind of organism made of organisms. I mean, I'm pointing out that Susanna's jars are It's almost like the swarm is one of those jars and the individual ants are like the beads of the neurons, so if you want, yeah, there's actually a kind of term that's floating around the community right now. called liquid brain liquid brain well the idea is that our brains are solid brains the feeling that our neurons are physically connected to each other in this particular case the neuron patch worn by an ant actually moves and then collides with others patches of brains and that creates a kind of fluid processing of information that has different or slightly different properties in terms of competence in the type of competence that they can achieve, so if intelligence is connected to the number of neurons in a brain As Susanna's research has suggested, This holds true for swarm intelligence: swarms with more members are more intelligent, so Swan with more members there is something that is interesting and as you increase the size of the Swan, it actually you have an increase in the division of labor within it, so you have individuals becoming more adapted to particular tasks in the colony and making the colony as a whole more efficient and accomplishing all these different tasks that they need to do to survive, instead of having little colony events where everyone has to do a little bit of everything.

They can specialize in different types of tasks and that makes them overall more efficient, so I don't know if they become smarter, but they certainly become more efficient. This happens in the brain of the newest brain you have if everything else remains the same. The same thing if the general patterns of connectivity remain the same, the more neurons you have, what exactly you see is you start to see division versus what used to be one visual area is divided into two visual areas and each of them can do the same. yours and that is the idea is that that is one of the ways in which you gain functionality as you have more neurons, you gain flexibility, you gain complexity and you gain diversity through the same type of analogy with octopuses, because the difference between an octopus and another mollusk is the complexity of the brain, although we do not have a neocortex, we have a vertical lobe, we have these specialized areas present in the octopus brain that we can identify and say that they are specialized for particular types of functions, but it is the whole octopus brain or the whole mammalian brain that integrates all of that to produce intelligence as an emergent property and I think it's perfectly fair to think of collections of organisms with specialized functions as parallel to what happens in a brain, so we were talking in advance, it's really fascinating.

You want to mention that in vertebrates you normally have about 90% of all the neurons in your nervous system, they are all in your head, they are in your brain, this thing that has a structure that you can call the brain and there is almost nothing. In an octopus what you have depends on the size of the octopus, but you can have as many neurons in the brain as those distributed in your arms or even more. One thing we discovered is that as the octopus grows, the brain doesn't gain. more neurons, but the arms gain more neurons, that's this crazy distributed system and you can also think of an anthill as a distributed system.

I love the idea of ​​the liquid brain just because, but that's the idea that you have these information processing units each. one has its own properties, let's say its own capabilities and that's what neurons do, that's what ants do, that's what slime mold cells do and when they come together or when they interact with each other you get this behavior collective self-organized and that's how I see it. very similar in the brain like the entire similar field of a complex system, the important thing is not the unit itself, it is the interaction between the correct minutes because that is where competition arises, that is where complexity or novelty emerges.

The interaction between the parts of the system is not correct when studying each part of the system separately from the others. A simple example is taking a few drops of anesthetic and applying it to a human brain. You have a brain that is still made of exactly the same thing. number of neurons are still there they're still alive it's just that they don't interact with each other in the same way anymore and your consciousness just goes poof, you looked at me and gestured at me earlier and said you didn't want to offend me by saying it makes decisions in advance.

I have no problem thinking that an ant makes a decision. I think they cause a lot of diseases in ants, although they certainly have to decide which way to go based on the situation. The sensory information coming into their brains is making decisions, but in analogy with thinking about behavior, that's a completely different story, but just for the record, ants have brains, that's true, a lot of valuable ones actually. They are not in what we would call the brain. a lot of neurons, a lot of calculations that are done in a distributed way in the surveys, that's a big view, that's right, a lot of shared information.

I'm going to go a little further before I get back to what I was saying. I think if you look at octopus brains, ant brains, and vertebrate brains, the divergence I talked about 505 million years ago was in the organization of the brain, but also in the building blocks of neurons. , neurotransmitters and proteins. that most fundamental level is what they all have in common and we can think of neurons, individual neurons simply make decisions, inputs come in, they make a decision whether to fire or not, this is a fundamental tenant of neuroscience, the good thing is that We can What we need to think about when we think about your ants and your brains is that if they have region specialization, then they have decision makers that are tailored to handle particular types of information, as you said, more efficiently, so which I have no problem with a hierarchical decision-making organization because I think that's what our brains tell us to fight among ourselves, but it's not like that, they have like outlaw ants, oh yeah, group and do something else, yeah Forget it, guys, like anxious ants with egos. like why do you get to be the Clinton plan, yeah, well, there is, I mean, it's like fourteen to fifteen thousand known species of ants, hopefully a few more that haven't been discovered yet and you get all the forms of organization that you you can. they become like very small colonies with maybe ten and then they are very large or very large colonies with medium and that is to say, they would be like leaf cutter ants, the extremes that we saw before, how to move these small leaves, the nucleus needs can be 25 million individuals in a single Well, that's huge, but when you look at this smaller colony and the smaller part of the spectrum, you have a lot more conflict between the end, so some species, when the Queen dies, the workers start to fight each other and become queens that we do not call.

We call them cameo doors, Queen, oh it's like Game of Thrones, yes this is like you guys have a fight with each other and then the winners of the fights reproduce while the losers become normal workers again , so there are many. of conflicts in an ant colony in the same way there are conflicts and you mean societies as you say I won't like to let you walk on me and be part of this bridge I'm leaving here and then the bridge collapses we don't I don't know, but what we see in these bridges is that if you look at the composition, the army ants have sort of four different caste events that are based on their size, like the small one, the medium one, the large one that runs. with food and then the big one with other soldiers, which is only about 2% of the colony, so we're not going to talk too much about them, but when you look at the bridge composition of the entire structure they build, it compares Because of The position of the colony in general, there are many more small ends of a small one inside the bridge than there are in the rest of the colony, so the question is: are these small ants exploited by the larger one or could they be So?

There's also a simpler explanation: they're small, so they can fit in more small holes, and there are more holes than our Biggles, so the result is that they end up in this situation more often, but overall they look like the bigger guy. . to take advantage of the ability of the smallest to build these bridges, so I'm going to help fight here, so this refers to if there is no ant personality, so there is a lot of genetic diversity within an ant colony, that's something which most people don't tend to talk about at least when we talk to the public, but a single queen can mate with multiple males, so there will be a lot of genetic diversity and therefore there will be a lot of feasibility in the behaviors of the extremes. .

Behaviors are determined by the type of genes you have received, so you can have some colony, in fact, you can have personality at the colony level. I don't like to use the word personality. I prefer to say that they are like some different tendencies in their behaviors at the colony level, yes, where some colonies tend to explore more than the environment and others, some colonies tend to invest more in reproduction, thus creating new repetitive ones instead of searching for food. , you start talking about colonies that have trends, it sounds a bit like culture and culture. I think in a sense I mean Kuchar because there is no transmission to the next generation, sorry, right, it's based on the genetic makeup of the colony, at least that's what we think at the moment when you talk about Cuchillo, I think probably You would agree with me that there is a notion that something is passed on, something that we have acquired, and this generation is passed on to the next generation.

That's kind of the scientific definition of culture. Could you tell there is transmission when you look at a colony over the years? Is there transmission from generation to generation within the same colony? To the extent that the problem here is that because Mosconi is a single queen producing the eggs, there is genetic diversity, but there is also plenty of income for all the sisters in the colony. They have 50% of the gene in common because they have the same mother and so you can't really distinguish if this culture that you see is used down to the genes or if it is actually something that has to do with you, you will have to have exactly the same colony with the same gene starting out and then seeing them evolve in different directions.

I'm thinking of things like ants growing mushrooms. Ants have a short lifespan, so workers in these colonies can go as late as their thirties and thirties. years wow, that's really great, but the workers have to keep replenishing themselves well. I mean, I think they substitute each other, so is there any evidence that newcomers learn thework of the above or do they deal with, say, mushrooms is it just something? That they do it in this particular one ends up a little special right, in this particular case there are fourteen molds size by size and a lot of what they do is determined by how they made it essentially, we have the really small one which is the only one we can access the garden of mushrooms and then you have this one that specializes in muscles as massive as these.

I mean, most of the head is muscle, there aren't many neurons left in this type and they are specialized for cutting, especially some for cutting leaves and These are a little special because their morphology determines function and they don't necessarily don't learn, but If you look at other species like bees or their ant species that don't have this big morphological difference, you'll see that as they get older, they actually tend to change roles depending on their age and the question is always that's a big debate, but no. We know exactly why we did it. When we have some ideas, some people think that it is due to fat reserves, so the bees or tips have more fat. reserves to see more inside the nest and take care of the young, etc. and the fact that we are losing fat reserves is depleted, I guess they get hungry or something like that, but there are also many genetic determinants when you go from being a nurse to being a nurse. be a food gatherer or be a soul, etc.

Sorry, I'm taking too long, well, I want to, I want to jump in here. Ants and swarms are getting a lot of attention for me and I know it, but I feel French. I feel the waves that I'm in the middle here you think that intelligence we really want we really want to touch language and that I'm looking right at your knees because I want because because you brought some really interesting dolphin sounds Well, can you briefly describe the ways in that dolphins use language to communicate? Well, first of all, we don't call it language. Well, what is communication called?

Well, and because language, at least at this point, has pretty strict definitions by human standards. Of course, you know you have to be able to talk about things outside of time, you have to be able to recombine sounds to form words, that kind of thing, so the most important thing with animal communication, at least from where I sit, is a sound. referential. or it is referentially qualified, it means that it refers to something that is on the label of something, so the words are referential, a rating system will represent emotional or motivational information, so I'm talking to you right now.

I'm using words that are referential, but not I'm waving my hands my sound my voice is getting louder or faster or if you're French very fast so don't go back to the small swarm so with the dolphins we have a certain let's look at some of these loose ones we have I yes, so they have a type of hiss, so they make hisses, clicks and pops, those are the three categories of sounds that make a characteristic hiss here it is a very specific hiss that is unique to an individual, basically works like its name. Okay, they have other types of whistles, but each dolphin has a name and they can convey who they are or they can call each other by name, so that's the only thing we know about dolphins that is considered referential, so they have a word and they know each other's names if they could call each other by name by a name yes I showed up very well they also make other types of sounds they make explosive pulse sounds that's what comes next here oh so what are you doing there ? they sound funny, that's what a burst post sound is, so the burst pulse sound is a pack of clicks, they are considered social sounds and on this particular slide you see that it is a face to face dolphin fight , it's actually a them. re Left Republicans Right Democrats a guy in the distance is the independent who is deciding which group will join the undecided, so they have political conflicts, so they are very close, sounds of fighting or social sounds, at that moment they have echolocation clicks, which are your sonar, these are click, they find fish and Edison and navigate, we all know that and the Navy.

I copied them right, no, not yet just to finish the fourth type of sound, then Icahn asked the question: They are called hums and these are basically very tight clicks and I felt like you had been buzzed. They used to drink courtship, but that was not the case. my case and it is the same sound that mothers use to discipline a calf, they ring their cap and hold them from below if they misbehave like a tamed dolphin this behavior she said oh, you were the lord. enthusiastic oh I said who knows and then they use that sound to scare away the sharks and you can see the shark squirm so you know sound passes through tissue and water the same way because of acoustic impedance so that dolphins can feel sound. it becomes a tactile tool for them, so how complex is this?

Is there evidence of dolphin grammar? No, we are looking for people to have measured their sounds. So here you have these three spectrograms, the top one is human, the middle one is dolphin and the bottom one is human, these are our words and the middle one looks like potential structural sounds, right, what we don't know, we don't have a stone of rosette, we don't know if they are actually referring to something if they recombine. these sounds to make the equivalent of words and that's what we're doing now is using machine learning to try to find out if the computer can help us analyze and separate small units of sound and see if they have that part of language that requires you to recombine information to efficiently create words that we would then potentially call as language or some language-like structure or structure.

Do octopuses communicate? They are very solitary, yes, so we can look through all the cephalopods. Cuttlefish, squid, octopus and octopus. They tend to leave few solitaries, but the chromatophores we talked about can be used to communicate and if you look at social species like hugging fish and so on, they do amazing things with very dramatic body displays, like the ice pot I showed you in qualia just a few moments ago, but throughout the body, so they can control those patterns instantly and they are particular screens that say hey, I'm ready to mate or hey, go away or I'm going to fight you that kind of thing. and there are many of these signals, like those of dolphins, that we do not know what they are, but they are very different, deliberate and not cryptic.

I have a question for you, so I read that cuttlefish can not only send signals to each other with I'm ready to mate or fight with their chromatophore changes, but they can send those signals to a predator but then disguise other communication through polarization. to talk to each other, that's right, so they're using stealth communication. talking to their comrades while telling the fish that they're not here, that they're going to fight or whatever, that's cool, so remember I told you that their eyes can process right polarized light, so they're set. All the colloid cephalopods, the ones I mentioned, which are the cuttlefish, are the ones that occupy, they all have all these abilities, they all have essentially the same brain structure, just like if we look at mammals, I can orient myself around any man's brain because all the structures are in common, well, a cuttlefish, squid and octopus have very different bodies, but their brains are basically the same in organization, they just get a little bigger and a little smaller in different parts, a cuttlefish will run or a squid will join.

They go side by side, you know when they're going to mate and if there's a female here and a male here, you might as well put on a display that says hey, hey, sexy, I'm ready to go right and the female can give the thumbs up. corresponding answer if There is another male around here the male will split his body in half and send a threatening display in the other direction like he is leaving I am ready to fight and the thing is when the body changes they actually change that pattern as if we're mentally tracking what the target is, where it is in space and it fits with the social context, so the answer is No octopuses, we don't have any evidence that they communicate because they mostly crawl under the rocks, they are looking for crabs, it's me, I'm right.

I could tell you about mating if you want, let's get very far away from language, okay, they don't converse, they don't converse before they mate, whereas table fish and squid have elaborate communication systems that we've only scratched the surface of. We've only scratched the surface of what we know about dolphins. I want to go back to the word culture so we can start talking about this idea that culture talks about some type of animal intelligence and culture scientifically is something that is when you learn something. It's passed down from generation to generation of animals, and Susanna, you have this really fascinating idea about culture in humans, your work found that human brains are not that different from the brains of other primates, so why do we end up being so smart? culture thing, so I was about to jump in and say it and say, can I just observe that I love that we're not talking about humans and what humans do?

Sorry, mother, it turns out that we do. They have something that is distinctive from what we have, we have this large number of neurons in the cerebral cortex that no other creature has and their simple explanations, I think why we end up that way, but really the story is that there is a pattern and en It's not that humans are atypical or especially singled out in some way, it's simply that we have a primate brain and we happen to be the species that has the largest primate brain. Now there is something that comes with having more neurons in the cortex, which we just realized. and you can live longer if you are a warm-blooded animal, so no, we are not talking about ants, we are not talking about octopuses, we do not know anything about that, yes, I am talking about that if you are a warm-blooded animal, it turns out Discover that the more neurons you have in the cortex, the longer you will live and also the longer it takes you in childhood, the longer it will take you to reach puberty, so think that's the beautiful thing, body size has nothing to do with This, you can actually prove mathematically. that body size is not part of the equation and by the way metabolic rate too, what people used to say was that the bigger the animal, the slower it uses energy, therefore the damage accumulates more slowly in the body and therefore the more you live correctly, it turns out that you can mathematically prove that none of that matters, it really doesn't matter the size of your body.

By the way, that's how I got to this because you realize that when comparing a large sample, if you take a bird, a primate, and any other mammal of similar size, the bird always lives longer than the primate and the primate always lives longer. than the other mammal, which turns out to be exactly the pattern I was talking about at the beginning that birds have more neurons than primates, which have more neurons than other mammals of a similar brain size, but anyway it turns out that we have to add that part to the evolutionary story now because as we get mammals with more neurons in the cortex, as we get humans with bigger brains and more neurons in the cortex, however that happens, we now have evidence that indicates that More neurons in the cortex are accompanied by a slowing down of life, which means you'll be a child longer. you are going to be with your parents you are going to depend on your parents for longer your parents will also live longer lives so there will be more overlap between generations and all that now we are extending the lifespan of one or two years in a mouse let's say ten years in a cow: now we're talking about 50 60 70 80 years in a big-brained primate, so you start to have time and opportunities to learn things that a mouse will never be able to learn, although I can't.

I know how many neurons an octopus has, but they are so incredibly intelligent in this alien way and they only live for a year. This is the point I wanted to make, they don't have the opportunity for generations to overlap in the time they live. one year octopus by ladies macula the largest octopus the giant pacific octopus will live four to six years think about what a human baby learns over the course of a single march and what we have seen qualia learn over the course of just a few months with us, so there is a kind of accelerated form of learning in these cephalopods, they learn extraordinary things, how to control this complicated body, how to interact with the world and they do it in a very short time scale, I tell you another thing , it's really Luckily, there are no cephalopods that have entered fresh water and that can emerge and like to live alone Club, but think about the learning trajectory and we can think of our ants that live even less, 33 days or something like that, but most insects are workers.

Yes, that depends on how you look at it, as if many insects go through this metamorphosis that, inIn reality, sometimes it can take years before they are introduced into the domains during this time, but yes, a worker, a worker ant, or maybe workers during the summer are gone for a month. maximum most of the time dies of exhaustion, all because he flies or a lot or simply because of the traditions of the game, so they don't have opportunities to require much in the way of memories, right, they don't have much of a wife, what is it?

Most insects have a memory that lasts between 24 and 48 hours. No, yes, you see this type of rapid learning in every species. I mean, that's not the property of ants, octopuses, dolphins or humans. Learning is something that circuits made of neurons do. It's the more time you have and you have to remember that neurons are forever. I mean, you're not replacing your neurons as you go, you're stuck with pretty much the neurons you had decades ago in our case. So as you live longer and longer lives, you really will have the opportunity and the potential to start finding new solutions and those new solutions to problems are what we call technology and you not only have the opportunity and the need as you find yourself. with more and more problems as you lead longer lives to generate new technologies as you overlap with those who came before you and with those who come after you, you can pass on that technology, you can pass it on, so not only do you get many neurons. you can live a long time and you yourself transform those neurons into something else, you can participate in the formation of the brains that come after you and, by the way, that is why we have to go to school, we need the opportunity for systemic transfer . of information, yes, of exposing our brains to the brains of those before us and then, someday in the future, doing our part of transferring what we learned to the brains that come after hours.

I feel confident that I speak for almost everyone I know. It makes me sad that we have to end this very, very soon, especially since now we know that Qualia has to go to her retirement home, but it's very nice, it's very nice, thank you, there are so many fascinating lessons that you have left us tonight, I mean, starting with brains, the size of the brain doesn't matter, this idea Denisa that you've helped us understand with your research that it's like we can't limit the range in which we look for animal intelligence, right, I mean, literally with you, the frequency is higher and lower than we can understand at the moment and with octopuses and swarms we have to expand our notion of what intelligence is and what a brain might look like now we will all come out of here saying liquid brain.

I think so, yes, this is a tall order, but if each of you could sort it out as concisely as possible, maybe just go back to where we started from your individual points of view. How special are we? What do you think? Who wants to start that while it's dirty? Yes, of course, I think humans have unique qualities like each species and each species is probably intelligent in its own environment, so we're talking, but in humans you know we're great at modifying. our environment we have a language that still needs to be analyzed with other species seriously, um, but yeah, I think we are unique, but that doesn't mean we're the only ones who are unique or special.

I take an evolutionary perspective. I believe that all species that exist today have evolved for as long as we have and therefore each of them is unique. I know, as long as we're right, we all have common ancestors, even cephalopods, and I had one common ancestor five. One hundred and five million years ago let's not go there, that's a long time. I'm trying to do this pretty quickly, but the idea is that a type of human being like the one you were talking about has uniquely evolved to be as intelligent as he needs to be. being and when we think about intelligence in a unitary way and use a human standard to say what intelligence is, we miss them because even among the people we know, some of us are better at learning languages, some of us are better at learning gymnastics.

We have different intelligences within us and I think what we should do is have an idea of ​​what intelligence is and then look for it generally across the diversity of species to really understand what our intelligence is because it would put it into perspective. You have said everything so I am going to talk about the next problems. Because Humanity is right, we have evolved in small groups, actually as small troops and therefore gatherers, but we are the only species on Earth that has reached the point of start as a small species and evolve as a small group species and now we're at the point where we have millions and millions and millions of interactions every day and our brains are still evolved to process that type of information.

We see all the problems with that right now in our societies where force information spreads extremely quickly. Those kinds of things generate an opinion. and colony, for example, or not too, so the next evolutionary thing our brain has to do is evolve the mechanism to defend ourselves again if there are problems caused by the rapid evolution towards large societies, that is, a kind of unique I think that in the history of life how special we are we are not aware one we are we are one more we speak biologically we are a species more biologically we are a primate with a large brain the primates with brain climate larger than However, it comes with something that we have built ourselves and I completely agree with the moment in which we have built ourselves an enormous amount of knowledge that we transmit culturally and that does not happen like that, that does not happen. in a lifetime, which means that it is not the work of a human individual, it is not the work of a biological individual, it is the work of our species for at least 200,000 years and that is something that can be lost in that way if you simply lose the opportunities. to educate the next generations you four are very special thank you very much