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Reason, Fight Aging | Q&A on How to Fight Aging

Jan 14, 2022
So, as you mentioned, I posted anti-


, which was originally intended to be sort of a dial tone for the longevity conversation back in the day when no one was talking about


and treating aging as a medical condition. a bus today and it wouldn't matter too much on that front, but um, I still find it useful for me, if not everyone else, to continue poking around and looking at what's going on and trying to keep a um, try to keep a flow of things. seems to help so beyond that i work biotech repair i run the company you know how it goes ceo fundraising and delegation nothing else and we're trying to reverse atherosclerosis what that means is that we have a focus. that absolutely definitively reverses atherosclerosis in mice and we're working to package it in a way that's acceptable to the combination of the FDA and investors to get it into the clinic and if all goes well. cleverly, hopefully clinical trials, um by the end of 2023 and of course if you have money, I'm happy to take it to put it towards this wonderful wonderful goal of ending the cause of death for a quarter of humanity, um apart from that i'm also an active self-experiencer um i like to try to fill in the gaps in our understanding and i have a body that could use it too it's getting old i try to do something about it and i also annoy people to come and try to do things I don't have time for, like start businesses to deliver dasatinib and quercetin to as many people as possible or conduct clinical trials on a philanthropic basis for therapies that will never be accepted by commercial industries because there is no way to put ip on them and other kind of general horsefly type stuff and that's going to be in a nutshell thanks ok then maybe to start the discussion huh love that I would like to share what is one slide that you have at least um presented or has I was allowed to submit it by filling in their information on this so basically what we've done all viewing weekend is have different people fill out their individual notes so that with the time we can create a tech tree out of them, obviously those are those two.
reason fight aging q a on how to fight aging
Purposes: It's a good plot device for people to really have in writing what other people are working on and they can see how they can fit in and I asked the question why the emails are full on your slide so do you want to explain ? a little bit about what's safe so I actually ended up filling this out with a pencil in the meeting like in a church pew so you probably couldn't read half of it so obviously I work in the field with our therapy in repair is essentially a gene therapy which also means it can be a cell therapy because you can choose to transduce the cells out of the body and deliver them to your place and like everyone working in this field um i end the existing state of the art for the gene therapy is frustrating to say the least i think there might be a perception in the world that gene therapy is something we can do um there is no such thing as good gene therapy uh what we have right now it's several square pegs that can be brutally hammered into the various round holes they need to be in, um, the problem one has is 100 as a target, um because he wants to be able to deliver enough of his ve ctor to the target um and ideally as little of your vector as possible anywhere else so there are no off-target effects um and most of what you want to do with gene therapy is in aging is going to require systemic gene therapies that are they are injected intravenously and only go or actively go somewhere in the body so your current set of genes and then once there they exist for a period of time and your current options are gene therapies which will cause major problems if you try to do that for most targets in the body because a lot of it will go to liver gene therapies where you can't restrict the activation of the charge to specific areas or specific parts of the body things that don't last long enough like mrna that it only lasts a few days to a week um when what you really want is months of expression things that last too long like aav that will last years when maybe you just want you were months of expression and a bunch of other tools where people say hey this works great but it really doesn't because when it comes to trying to get it to work right you know nobody has replicated it right and then there are some tools great that no one has passed the FDA yet and when you're running a company the first thing you should do is look at the tool options and say who put this option through the FDA so you're not the first person trying to convince them to that this is actually going to work and there's this game you play where you look at clinical trials and you count the number of clinical trials for option a vs option b and it doesn't matter how good option a is if you have two clinical trials and none approval where option b has 15 clinical trials and three approvals go for option b and just make the square pin fit into the round hole what we need what we need s desperately to advance the state of the industry is an 80 20 gene therapy that just works for most applications where you can just say I can inject this stuff in large volume it won't upset the immune system it won't hurt your liver , it will only activate in the tissues you want and it will basically work for most therapies with very little tinkering right now you really have to spend there is a whole industry for example for aav um viral gene therapies that focuses on really spending you it will cost 18 months or maybe 10 million dollars to get a factor of two um unless you are lucky a factor of two improvisation element in the efficacy the efficiency of your gene therapy and you want that factor of two because it means you can inject half than you would have injected otherwise and therefore you get less liver toxicity which is really important and people spend a lot of money on this and this is a nonsense we have to take all this out and just have gene therapy that just works and there are a couple of paths forward that might work lipid nanoparticles and plasmids are a potential path forward where you may be able to get things that might have a promoter-driven activation of the charge so you can control it much more precisely in terms of where it's expressed in the body and these nanoparticles can be made non-toxic enough that you can inject the large amounts of them without aggravating the body but we're nowhere near where we need to be in this they're just better than the past right now so this is my my my my aggravation that I bring to high net worth individuals who want to get into the industry and do something big is come on, put the pieces together, build the gene therapy of the future, the platform that will allow you to use the gene therapy that will create thousands of companies overnight. and doing as much as possible that can be done with gene engineering, the future of medicine is not small molecules, it is gene therapies because gene therapies, if they can be delivered in a non-toxic, cost-effective manner, are much more precise and much more controllable than any small molecule approach could ever be we just don't have the tools to enable that but we are floundering around like cavemen with giant clubs trying to hit disease over the head with these things it works if you you're targeting skeletal muscle or if you're targeting the liver, but you know if, for example, you're someone like me wanting to target the thymus, good luck.
reason fight aging q a on how to fight aging

More Interesting Facts About,

reason fight aging q a on how to fight aging...

The way forward is direct injection and direct injection is not a viable route for most internal organs because the mortality rate is going to be quite high in older people 0.1 0.2 that's about what the fine needle aspiration mortality from Syria complication rate is for um internal organs and if you're doing something that's not for very, very serious disease, you can't just float that kind of mortality rate with the FDA and expect to get there somewhere or even with investors who will just look at that and shrug that we need to do a lot better than we can right now um and at the end of the day what you can do with that is whatever you can think about um my particular um my particular project right now where we reverse atherosclerosis by breaking down cholesterol where it accumulates in excess in the body you can't do this with small molecules end point of hi Story, there is simply no way to do this with any conceivable small molecule approach because cholesterol is used forever anywhere in the body you need something that is as complex as a cell to go in and do the job in a safe way and just break down the excess cholesterol if you need a cell you need a way to program that cell you need genes and proteins and so on and this is true for a lot of things in the body if you want to restore elastin elastin is a really complicated project it has a very ornate structure you can't just go in there and play around with the stuff you need to program cells to go and do the right job and you know there's a lot of things in aging that are like that you need a complex worker on site to affect things the way you want to affect them , be it some form of repair or rebuild or etc. um, gene therapies are the future and are needed for a large part of the treatment of aging.
reason fight aging q a on how to fight aging
We were very lucky with the analysis. most of our problem with aging is not that it's, uh, it's a little bit more complicated, so that's my take on how that all works, um and then, separately, what did I ask for as someone? Please solve this better. uh remote well let me oh yeah that's right yeah so you know I have a little bit of experience running remote operations in the software industry and that's easy you just set up a good telecommunication system and everyone zooms in and you don't It doesn't matter if your coworker is on the floor or in the building so you can go up and complain to them directly or if you are in Siberia any of those jobs lab work is work lab it really matters and you really really need to be there in person um we had kind of a 30 day issue trying to get something to work which happened to be at one point because the person actually doing the work was too slow to closing the top of a tube that was taking you know 30 seconds should have taken 10 seconds and this derailed a whole project for a month because you know and this kind of thing you can never write on a protocol and if you put a protocol and give it to a cro and say do this you'd be there for months trying to figure out what they were doing and if it was going wrong and if you have a remote worker you'll never realize it's impossible um our CSO he splits his time between um his family home in toronto and our lab in syracuse and things go a lot faster when he's here in syracuse i can tell you because he's looking over people's shoulders and seeing things like hey you should to have closed that tube faster, I mean it's an obvious example.
reason fight aging q a on how to fight aging
There are many others that appear in this business of bank work which is very, very practical work. It's a machine and they're doing the exact same thing over and over again and no protocol can be complete enough to describe everything you need to know to make something work correctly and half the time you're figuring out how to make it work correctly, I mean, we As a company that does development our goal is to never do any research so of course we end up doing about 50 research because that's how the world works and you can't do this remotely so there are companies in this moment they are trying to make brave stabs. in um, how do you get remote bank work done and for any meaningful work they will all fail?
I know we are an inventive world and at some point we have to allow the banking community to be the biotech community because you know well there is a lot of focus on software in this community. 99 of the important things in biotech are hands. -in wet lab work which is what advances the field, not bioinformatics, not infrastructure technologies, it's guys in a lab poking around in cells and doing things, so if we're going to allow the same kind of explosion of value around the world. country and world of today's tech hubs for biotech to happen and I think we need a way to allow that industry to operate in the same way that the tech industry does where remote work is a possibility and disparate work areas collaborate with each other. yes without problems it is a possibility and I don't know how to do it because myMy experience is that you simply can't have any kind of remote capability or interaction in a company without running into huge problems that will slow you down immensely. so someone please figure this out a big challenge and you already have some feedback here in chat and this is probably something for our smart corporation group to take up as well we have a comment from nicola ahead yeah i don't know why did i keep my hand up because that was a lot of elements um when you were talking about the aavum it's not a solution um maybe for example the way it will translate depends on the promoters i would use depends on the size of the embeds that's going to place, um, it's just a technique, so I don't. look at how uh av by itself would be the solution for ginger there are so many other myths one can use but i think the important item you were writing there was my take on this there are many methods that are available but not de interest and they are not taken because they are not protected by intellectual property and therefore nobody wants to pay 80 000 80 million dollars to get FDA approval so I was wondering if there is a commercial approach that might be similar to um what is the field of generic medicine um you know you have for drugs you end up with a generic after a few years and there are a lot of companies that specialize in generics and can make money off of that so if we can set up a structure that b e a non-profit organization that will evaluate different potential therapies and do approval, then you may have companies that will be interested in licensing those technologies and implementing them and providing give the convenience, so there are two elements in a company that you are providing something to that is normal and exclusive and obviously for that you have to have the financial incentive or are you providing convenience and that is the generic account that you are doing something that nobody more was doing and you're selling it to people who are happy to apply but before that someone needs to do to pay for the approvals and that can be done with non-profits and um that identify those aspects and do the research um coming to label a little bit on someone was talking about how markers of aging should be attached to any medical study being done now we are collecting work we have the markers we should include that in what is going on i am curi ous as to what you think a good gene therapy approach is no patent protection right now yeah well everything is new , people try to protect it, and if a decision has been made, everything stands. so strongly but my point was not about patent protection my point was to uh when there is no interest in developing proprietary technology to push this through FDA approval if there is a market because there could be a company generic that would be happy to provide the convenience and develop the technology advanced technology well I'll give an example um so that's why I think it's probably not a terribly interesting path, no offense intended um, which are entos, are entos, pharmaceuticals , which are um they're hip-tethered to the ocean working on removing senescent cells, but their lipid nanoparticles are basically better than what was there before they actually did it. and little more than developing this new formulation of lipid nanoparticles that's just better than the old one and they let you know the 100 million dollar deals are going steadily now there's no shortage of money if you develop a better gene therapy you'll have the pharmaceuticals and governments lining up I'm willing to give you huge amounts of money to um really push that there's a real hunger for that kind of thing okay we've got a few more people here in the queue and your nikola obviously feel free to jump in If you wish. make a counterpoint to this even in the chat um we had anton um and steve um who's next with questions here steve anton you're so quiet uh I don't think it's just me but maybe come up you're so quiet you need to be closer to the mic yes uh it's fine now very loud but yes ahead it's somewhat annoying uh thing about the zoom that by default puts a very low voice uh so uh regarding the comment I fully agree that there are some I would say infr structural things uh that uh for example like uh it's doing gene therapy which is a bottleneck for aging research because we develop critically how many I mean aging needs very complex interventions and we are more dependent on the ease of complex interventions and any other field of biotechnology is similar to what, for example, clean meat depends on growth factors and the price of the medium and, in the case of clean meat, actually They put in a lot of community work to find ways to reduce the costs of growth and medium factors for the entire industry.
So like a lot of non-profits like New Harvest or the Good Food Institute, they actually do extra work to make it easier and cheaper, and I think maybe as an aging research industry we have to find the major bottlenecks and actually work hard. uh, uh, making them easier to do, for example, it's not just how easy a complex gene therapy can do, but other things, for example, like a bank of cells from long-lived organisms like Whales, if a lab wants to work with a whale cell culture or any other long-lived animal cell culture, you can't because there's no shared cell bank and when you try to approach it academically, it looks like not a very interesting study because it's destructive. study, it just creates an infrastructure, it's not a really interesting article to put out, but for the aging community it's like a small effort that can be useful for many and the same can be done with gene therapies because like for plasmid, It's like a non-profit organization. called ed gene and everyone is using the engine and doing some pretty complex builds with it maybe we need something similar for nanoparticles and viral maybe where we can quickly get something complex for our therapist and probably the community should push it like this uh in first of all i think you can turn the volume down about half there um second of all uh there is a vec ad gen that is only good for academics you cant really use an ad gen in fo for profit based work on your license, but what the for-profit world has is a collection of companies that are doing relatively cheap work for a bunch of things, so it's just a matter of finding the right one.
We use the vector generator a lot which I've really reduced the cost of doing all kinds of vector preparations and plasmids and other miscellaneous things and they're pretty fast and reliable in the grand scheme of things so you know there are definitely toolkits. that gets you good enough i mean it needs another factor of 10. anything to do with viral vectors definitely needs another factor of 10 reduction in cost but a lot of that is more gmp related issues the type of manufacturing process set. av by the fda is really very very onerous and in the case of aav that is not true for everything by the way in the case of aav there really isn't much of a practical difference between gmp and research grade materials um obvious and there is a difference very handy from an FDA point of view, but from the point of view of someone who goes out and does, um, your chances of getting something bad are pretty low, so I think Stephen also had a question he has ham he got your hand here uh yeah um as you made a comment earlier about um you know proprietary technologies related to gene therapies and you know my take on that is that there are many generic technologies that underlie the efficacy issues that relate to proprietary therapies so For example, if you put mrna into a cell when that cell is zinc deficient, you'll get inhibition of protein synthesis, and then you know how that presents a problem for companies that you can n be developing a proprietary technology but I don't see a lasting risk associated with a generic therapy so the risk of taking the risk I assume means someone comes along and bypasses your patent with one of their own and then runs out competition is with you and it makes your life a tough ask or they just find a way to do it with generic technologies and they avoid getting around you with something that's not patentable well I mean it's actually a problem for a lot of groups but um in the practice, whether it's a problem or not, seems to be very domain specific if you look at, for example, the groups that are doing recombinant protein therapies, all of these guys, to a first approximation, go to the FDA with a variant of the or fragment or like you know some optimized version of the protein in question so it's really not that much better than the protein itself so why do these people get away with l to yours um when any idiot could come and put the um put in a uh therapy with just the original protein and the answer is the FDA doesn't like it if a therapy comes along that is a micro uh measure worse than um what's happening It's currently not great protection but it's w that's what happens right now other than that you know it's very domain specific if anyone it's hard to tell without specific examples a really great result with aav in terms of finding a capsid etc which is actually 10x better or 40x better than the um than the generic approach to v8 or 9 which is actually an infeasibly large result which is not what you would expect to get out of any of this kind of effort you're looking for 2x or 3x gains but that they could do that suggests maybe there's some life left in av and people maybe produce stuff that's actually very good in aav and that will drive efforts like selector biosciences and other ras people who are trying to make av um non-immunogenic and repeatable by various strategies which are sort of interesting so I think aav will still be competitive in a sense for a while even though it's stupid expensive um and really just something which you can use for rare diseases right now but if anyone came up with a use I mean if for example if repair biotechnologies were to advance with aav um which by the way we're not going to do but if we did for um for the orphan indication homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, which is an accelerated form of atherosclerosis, and we got great results there, just like we did in mice and um, then we would have a situation where you have a rare disease that is treated with a aav at ridiculous cost but could be used off label for anyone with atherosclerosis that would put enough pressure on the current system to move further r To rapidly move towards the disruptive factor of 10 cost reductions in aav, as it has similarly happened with monoclonal antibodies in the past, I don't know, it's a moot question, but at some point maybe someone else will find themselves in that position. n and chooses to go ahead with aav it's kind of a chicken and egg situation av can be good for a few things and could be older but as long as it's relegated to this ultra expensive niche of just rare diseases um and no matter what the the fda will tell you if you come up with an aav enhancement therapy instead of knowing how to fix a broken gene for an inherited disease then maybe we can get somewhere with this but getting over that hurdle will probably require some kind of philanthropy like that that's usually the case for these types of scenarios if someone was like you know if you could get it all done and if someone really wanted to make an impact like what would it be let's say I was a philanthropist listening to this what would they do or what are the next steps I have ?
I had this conversation with a very high net worth individual um I won't name um like a year ago he was looking for where he could make a difference um and um and I said look if you're going to test if your goal is to build the best gene therapy platform to enable a whole new industry you're going to have to start organizing conferences go organize a conference get everything get everything gene therapy people make 'em talk put your boot on the table and say look this is what i want how do we do this here it is my lot of money this can go towards research or research awards or getting more conferences going but the first step is to get everyone talking about it and learn what academia and industry think the best approach is what it takes for and you will get 50 opinions from 50 people and hopefully somewhere. there you can figure out what needs to be done where you can put some money into the system to speed things up and this is you know people have done this before it's not rocket science it's just a lot of work i mean n it's exactly what that the shipping research foundation has been doing for various different parts of the field and other people before them outside ofour field have decided they know how to speed things up and start by hosting a big conference isn't a terrible way to go are there any other topics you want to see big conferences on that you think this is a really undervalued area like the list laundry? that's sensible, because the FDA makes it really difficult and what we want is a world where you know where these therapies show up, like I mean, I have a list, it's um, if therapies like fecal microbiota transplant show up. or scourges and immunization or desatinib and quercetin or you know all these other things that are easy falling fruit where they're unlikely to progress in the um in the for-profit system because you can't get good enough ip on t these things, but the fda has determined that they're probably going to make life more difficult for people who try to just do this off-label or just do it anyway, um certainly fecal microbiota transplantation, in particular, is in a legal area very strange hazy gray huh where the FDA would step in if someone got very aggressive in trying to expand use so what's the best way to proceed with this idea of ​​getting all this money that's floating around? there in the hands of people who really care about advancing the state of the art in parts of medicine and transferring it to people who can responsibly run these trials and publish the results and disseminate them in a way that people that the medical community and other big funding sources pay attention, so you need a reputable model. people will look at it and say yeah this is the real deal if they ran a test of 200 people and got a result we should probably hear that and then you know even quercet satin on you could run a hundred trials for a hundred different age related indications plausibly at this point, as far as we know, these drugs could be used very widely, as widely as the seasons, um, and they're not being because no one has done those trials and for satnip and quercetin, no one will. for the 80 percent of diseases that one could treat with this in a very


able way based on animal data, no one is going to do those trials in the next 20-year horizon because every company that does a um, do an analysis of some kind will be leveraged in about two or three indications before they are sold to the pharmaceutical industry and after that off-label use will advance. to very slowly and piecemeal we need to make it go faster and how do you do that with a nonprofit and all the money that's floating around looking for ways to do things faster that would be a good lecture I think that's ok Lecture number two, nikola, you're right on this one before we move on to the laundry list.
Also, yeah I'm just happy that it ended up going along with what you were suggesting to have a non-profit that encompasses the crowd and then offers the opportunity for businesses to start as a service that's kind of um generic to provide the solution um there is an example of something similar in the supplement field where there are very low levels of oomph and people generally don't like sustenance because they don't even know if what is being sold is exactly what is there in the bottle, so you have a thorn. uh naming them that they have a good reputation for having clinical grade proven supplements that actually tell you exactly what they promised to sell you and they have a reputation that they are making a lot of money selling supplements so if anyone is able to do the research and validation of um technologies for aging, then there will be companies that will come and provide those um service therapies and make a better business model with the caveat that there is a difference between reused therapies like sacnib and that they are legal and can be used outside of the label and something like um something like fecal microbiota transplantation or flagellar immunization that is demonstrably safe and widely used and yet the FDA would require the full spectrum of trials to allow it to be used in the US. , not to mention that if we take the example of immune intervention, greg fahey's attempt to rejuvenate the thymus, they are literally using a combination of things that are approved and the FDA's view of that is that that's a new drug and they need to do trials, um, so you know that the FDA is just a weird organization and the best way to think of them is that um, your belief is that it is acceptable to avoid any cost in human death and any cost in money. any damage commission and a lot of their actions make a lot more sense if you look at them through that lens without debating how


able that lens is and then you know there's some human weakness On top of that, different parts of the FDA have different opinions and it's kind of a lottery who you end up talking to on any given day but that would be why leaving the US is sometimes good for some things yes it happens quercetin no you can do all of that in the US If you wanted to because off-label is something for fecal microbiota transplantation which is difficult it might have to be something that went through the medical tourism industry and you may have to look at creating a non-profit organization responsible profit, solve the problem of how you create a trusted entity that is outside of the US and that you trust inside of the US Well the problem is if you're trying to run away first, that's what you're applying the FDA.
Is this personal harm practical, but if you try to run away from the FDA and do it at scale, there will be new laws that will probably cause those people to lose their health care in the United States, so maybe that's not the solution, huh? the solution is not such a solution um you know go to cuba to buy your cheapest insulin its not a scale solution specifically for fecal transplantation the best possible treatment procedures were invented in the 1700s um ok why the fda Is it a pain in the region of implantation? well there are reasons and there is one you need to look at the question and solve the specific problem why why wouldn't the fda accept physical transplantation as a treatment for aging oh they would totally accept it at the end of the day not for aging itself um, domesticated test aside, but you know you could, you could for some indication that chronic inflammation was important at the point is you'd have to spend the money to get it accepted and that's the problem because you can't protect with patents, uh, solidly, fecal microbiota transplantation and if you can't patent it, you can't control the future revenue stream, you can't convince investors to give you the money you need to pass the tests, it's because so all these conditions don't advance um I think John had a question um I just have a comment about the fba approval which is not always just to um prevent damage or part of the se security. the fda approval that might be the case in the clipping trial is if you can make a valid finer rejuvenation claim with this combination of things that are approved for other um for other indications the fda cares about the efficacy and the security though you know most people most decisions whether or not to go ahead funnily enough it's actually related to gmp security cost that kind of thing is my take on things um I posted a little more info on the fda session we have with chris laptop here just in case people want some context and well one of the challenges he had in the longevity challenges document i shared here as well in the chat if we go through the laundry list it was much, much better, the immune rejuvenation and you eli Mention a few things, which are the regeneration of the thymus, the rejuvenation of juvenile hematopoiesis and l a specific elimination of the pathogenic peripheral immune population.
So do you want to say a few words about that too? the things we're going to see very soon I think for some definition of very soon um because all the pieces are out there and can be worked on or are being worked on um ship of theseus is a company that is working on ways to restore hematopoietic function and not they are the only ones and this is really um this is something that could be solved by some kind of cell therapy there are small molecule approaches that could make differences big enough to matter and gene therapies there are a wide range of ways that could possibly restore hematopoiesis um at a more youthful useful level in the bone marrow second the thymus i think we are all familiar with what can be done there now in the current thymus ally there are so many ways to regrow the challenge is completely again to aim for that you can't inject the thymus because the mortality rate would be too high, but if you could, there are a number of things you could do. egate in the thymus which would make it grow back i mean growth hormone kgf um you could put some kind of steroid ablation in the thymus which would also work um like this and and the list goes on um your problem is completely 100 delivery and and greg's group fahey is doing about the only thing it can do in humans, probably leaving out cavernous peptides where it's not very clear if they're really capable of rejuvenating the immune system. testing people for scams, which is the annoying standard story of most of these approaches, which is that there's great data for improving immune function, but no one did the CT scans, um, so someone should run that study the other part of killing peripheral immune cells and i should say the thymus and the bone marrow talk to each other in both directions we understand how the bone marrow talks to the thymus so if you restore if you restore the thyme the um generation of cells in the bone marrow some of them go to the thymus and actually bring signals with them and the thymus will tend to slow its evolution or grow larger as a result we don't know how it works otherwise but there seems to be a connection between the new growth thymic and enhancement of hematopoiesis in the bone marrow so there's a study for anyone looking for something to do in academia the last one is fine by what has all these pathological immune populations the male might not go down if you restore the thymus um it's not really clear so ideally what you would want to do is remove everything and there is a mate um who has been doing for autoimmune conditions for a while. using very drastic very drastic approaches that no one would want to go through which is basically chemo and it's not fun chemo and it carries serious risks so it was only treating serious diseases like multiple sclerosis but you can make things like diabetes type 1 and multiple sclerosis go away for, um, you know, anywhere from three to ten years by wiping out someone's peripheral immune system because that's where some of the information is stored about how the immune system malfunctions, um, now if you can they can having done the experiments where, for example, you kill the B cells on the periphery or the microglia in the brain and those are two great ones to get rid of because they come back very quickly and they come back without all the damage that the old ones did. had that's great works great someone should do it um clearing the rest is a bit more interesting problem um there are a few ways forward there is actually it's a really good marker that only immune cells have and if entos if entos ocean suicide gene therapy delivered via lipid nanoparticles would be better at reaching circulating immune cells, he's not very good at that, that would be a good fit for a gene therapy to kill off the problematic immune system peripheral, but there are many ways to do it and I think any of these things would be beneficial in and of itself, so I think there's a lot of room for an industry of people doing interesting things here and to some extent there's a small industry of people doing interesting things here but not big enough uh yeah i was with robert i was talking about richard burke ok and here again what could have cer someone who was?
I'm actually trying to help, so I'm always afraid I'd like to say that the helping part is giving me money or giving someone else money, but honestly there's not enough investment in this field in biotech. space um, go find biotechs that do something you love and invest in them. I mean there's a lot of us and a lot of us are doing good things so go chat with these people and see if you like what they're doing and if you invest in their companies I think immune rejuvenation is an approach of very high expectation value, so with a lot of indications that one could possibly aim for and even if you don't, even if you're building a clinical industry, a clinical business as an individual mu and it's still a worthwhile goal, so take a look at what's out there,I think okay, if I'd never heard this and didn't necessarily have a record, I'd be like how can I take a look?
How do you take a look? you can always tease me and i can point you in the direction of some people. I think this is one of those things where I need to write a document and say okay, look, these guys are doing things. a lot of papers i probably owe the world at this point yes there is also karl flaker's aging which lists a very good comprehensive overview of a variety of different companies yes and i am very grateful to him for doing it because i just don't I wouldn't have the time or the energy. at this point to go on to continue on that one i think he's starting to realize how much work went into here well i hope you know he also lives off of some community nominations but i definitely want to say he won't just keep it up today, but it's spilling out more and more individual subtabs.
I will share the link here. uh in the uh He is saying that he no longer has a car. I don't know if you mean something to that. Hey. or if i have a request how people can block there if you are free and if you want i will just say you know i've been adding new tabs but i don't keep up with companies tab um and know the list updates from the company coming in 2022 but also the beginning of crowdsourcing nings um you know not full wikification but um crowdsourcing based on you know volunteers who are blessed and with you you know i went through the code to make sure the info is right but you know that's next to-do list for 2022.
I'm excited to hear that, um, okay, I shared the link here and the chat as well and I think carl, on top of that, launches blogs, books, lectures, etc., so it's pretty comprehensive um start any last minute questions here we have like nine minutes left I think um steve opened the thread again about the FDA so I don't know Steve if you want to harp on this again if anyone wants to hear stories about historical examples of how the FDA has subverted their own process and both laws and um and um uh constitutional provisions um, for example, there have been that have been cited like four times for free speech violations, even commercial free speech focused specifically on that issue and they're still doing it so you know the decision hasn't gone to the supreme court it's only been four circuit court decisions so um the fd a a didn't really give you matter they have kind of a sacred cow position in the united states and so they basically do whatever they want to do regardless so i'm all this idea that it's about harm minimization i think it's basically public actually , i mean minimizing the damage is the exact opposite of what they do in practice once you factor in the invisible graveyard like someone said there no one receives no one has their nice bureaucratic run cut short for not approving a drug unfortunately but that's the system we work on that you play this game or find a way to make medical tourism work um and that's obviously on the list.
We need to figure that out because medical tourism is the only form of competition for these highly regulated systems in the uh the richer parts of the world have highly regulated and corrupt systems and the only way to improve them is by letting them know a lot of therapies that are done outside of the country with consequent pressure and that's w What happened with stem cell therapies and with some success I think, uh, but it's still not, uh, it's not quite 100. You know, a crusade that worked. In that case, there are many much more complex actual images on the ground.
We have a question from the chat about thoughts or things that could be done to make this work lemme lemme insert a short comment here about the possibility of offshore tourism this is something that is not very well developed due to a certain amount of infrastructure, but as long as medical therapy takes place beyond the 12 mile limit, it's at least theoretically self-contained and that wouldn't be that far for people to go, yeah, the whole ship and park it offshore, exercise which some people have been thinking about, it actually costs a lot more than you think, but okay Nicola I think you had a comment, just a function word because I think we have a responsibility, in a field that's relatively young man, we also know what happened with the vacuum cleaner. theaters in the last year um we came up with the solution and the general public was extremely skeptical and very easily opinion rejected something that was fda approved that was backed by time so if we open the door for you um just bypass the regulations and use medical tourism to go and implement our way, we have to accept the fact that we are not a homogeneous community, it is very heterogeneous and there will also be quacks that will come in, take people out, give them treatments that will give them a very, very bad name. . across the field, I'm afraid we already have the quack community actively doing their thing within the supplement space, and in fact, you know you don't have to look too far to find people who are selling things that won't do you any good. a lot of good um so you can't, as I said in the meeting in person, you can't stop the evil, um, no matter what you do, one has to like to keep going and do the best one can.
I had a comment h yeah I mean since I'm kind of involved in not just aging but unity and cultured meat what I see is that uh if some non-profits are very reputable, in They actually manage to oversee things that happen in a lot of companies and it happens in cultured meat and we get a lot of information because nonprofits interact with companies and do some reporting and research with very sensitive stuff because everybody trusts them and in In terms of medical tourism, I mean the problem is that companies try to cut corners to minimize costs and I mean if we want it to be safe, maybe it makes sense to create a reputable non-profit organization that evaluates the processes of gene therapies in medical tourism related to aging companies related to regenerative medicine and give them as a qualification d e stars and if so, if many companies will go through this procedure and if there will be reputable security experts in this non-profit, maybe it can ease the situation with medical tourism.
Like incentive problems, there is a challenge. This has been discussed in the past by the number of people. incentive to participate in this scheme um it's a challenge huh johnny yeah um about the idea of ​​taking a boat uh past the 12 mile limit yeah that's a great idea i was on once once and yeah it was a beautiful day there it was dolphins swimming , that's the good thing, just make sure you get a stable boat big enough like a trawler because, you know, the ocean is not like you know, like a building, there will be rocking, uh, a subject, uh, he got seasick and uncomfortable, so uh just keep in mind that well nothing is perfect i was going to suggest a cruise would be a better operation where the infrastructure is already funded and making a profit and just sublet a fraction of that operation to ru in your clinic and that way you can expand it in proportion to demand.
Oh great here in California. Catalina has regular runs from Los Angeles to Ensenada. Something like that. medical tourism i think one thing i like uh dylan and livingston with um the alliance for longevity initiatives will focus on next year as we heard in the last session is really trying to push him to be more sane uh, for more policies similar in that regard so I'd love to hear from you just you know what kind of stuff you know what do you think we should try to get the FDA to do or what are the sensitive aspects well I'm a cynical cynic when it comes from the government um i think the only thing the government responds to is competition outside of their domain um medical tourism is the only way to meaningfully reform the fda in any way otherwise play the game and then just accept what you accept.
In my opinion, what they do lobbying is a tremendous waste of time. I don't think it's as effective as trying to do your thing competitively in another country. you know an fda jurisdictional analog uh that you think is most likely the one you know go go in the directions we want first and well there is there is this is a sliding scale carl lets say um so you can go to canada or australia and reduce your regulatory costs by a factor of two and that's already putting some pressure on the fda in terms of limiting how much the costs and difficulty can continue to rise, but to do more than that you know you need to like expand panama which is a decent place for clinics or uh bahamas as mentioned above thailand vietnam and india are as you know somewhere on the spectrum between bahamas and panama and canada so there's nowhere you're ng a your you have freedom um certainly you could go to one of these crooked caribbean nations and convince them to let you do something and as soon as you get bad press they would shut you down and that happened um you have to have a certain amount of stability p to do these things um when you think that one thing that just happened with prospero right where they're already trying to set up shop in honduras is they now have a new um uh as a new head of government in place that is uh against prosper existing or has done it as one of their first i think it moves uh in office and so i think that instability is also what uh really shot the seasteading movement uh in the foot when they went to tahiti they had um they had at least an initial agreement that this could work um and then and then the government changed and I think so so you're negotiating um you're negotiating uh low regulation against instability and and risk for the for the venture in effect that's why most of the People have seen this and said okay, let's just do our clinical trials in Canada, they're really interested in avoiding some of the FDA issues that go beyond that, it needs more work if it isn't. like uh if you're not doing it very under the radar as a small scale operation we had um brian kennedy and a few others here last year which i just shared as a link in chat to talk about singapore approach because apparently they have a good model of how to make government much more aligned with the companies that are producing and there was some pretty interesting learning from them so I think steven and nicola had additional comments on one of the big issues with uh , dealing with small countries that you know maybe something shaky is that, um, there's often bribery involved, which is not something that's uh, compatible with our practices and things like that, but the point I wanted to make is First is which you know because the FDA drug approval standards are not written anywhere, they are not published in the federal register under administrative procedures law, it ends up being a double standard that is enforced among large pharmaceutical companies that have a low barrier to things and small innovative pharmaceutical companies that have a high barrier and that barrier can be raised arbitrarily mind to force those companies to sell to larger drug companies, so this is one of those reasons why you need to push the FDA through tourism. to sidestep that kind of arbitrariness and capricious, you know, the right rules, regulatory capture is better, nicola even said exactly what they meant, except for the bottom line, if you look at the statistics when small businesses try a first app and get a rejection. their replication have a much better chance of being accepted and for example once we had uh we wanted to change the electrodes we use for brain implants and we wanted to go from silver to gold and we got hit with biocompatibility gold is much less reactive that silver um is obvious but someone somewhere has to read in the app the keyword that says gold is biocompatible and so I think something that can be done and that goes hand in hand with Alison's question is have a tool where we can help companies have better apps because that's a legal element, the person who is the bureaucrat reading those apps they don't really care about.
Understanding the purpose they need to see the keywords they need to see the right word there and they only have some freedom to pass or disapprove something so if we help companies have better apps that could make the process simpler. you, oh why did you want to answer this? Not good. Haven't we already been five days? Here um he has at least a little bit of knowledge and experience and really w ants to run an offshore clinic I know they're going to cut our email off j adams at g r g dot o r g we need to talk thanks can you put him in the chat that will be lovely so the last question withthat everyone here always gets tested is what are you working on right now and how can this meal really help you advance your work?
So what would really help speed up your work? Why have you been doing so much for the community? This is your chance to say what would help. you're right um depressing money my main job right now is fixing biotechs we would love to be able to do clinical trials by the end of 2023 and that requires a lot of funding so I'm interested in introducing myself to all kinds of people . Family Offices High net worth individuals Angel funds who are interested in the cardiovascular space Atherosclerosis kills a quarter of everyone in today's environment where almost everyone is on statins Who can take statins We have to deal with wi This condition is one of the leading causes of human mortality and the best thing to do to help us move to the point where we can largely squash that increased mortality risk is to overcome the next funding hurdle for our company and take to our first clinical trials and that's a very depressing response that like money makes the world go round but that's what it is and connections, connections are always appreciated, how can they reach you?
Find a contact address also for the company in general, which also addresses me on the website

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