Quiet | Susan Cain | Talks at Google

Alana Weiss: Hello and welcome. My name is Alana Weiss and today it is my pleasure to welcome Susan Cain to the Leading@Google series. Today we'll hear about her new book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. Next week will see her number four on the New York Times bestseller list and Susan will soon give a presentation at TED 2012. Before Susan became a writer, she practiced corporate law for seven years representing clients such as J.P. Morgan. Morgan and General Electric. Later, she worked as a negotiations consultant training everyone from hedge fund managers to television producers to college students negotiating her first salary.

She attended Princeton University and Harvard Law School. Reflecting on these experiences, Susan writes, "From all this, you might guess that I am a staunch, wonderfully confident, table-pounding person, when in fact I am quite the opposite." So today, in a room full of introverts and their advocates, Susan will share her first-hand research and knowledge about the power of introverts. Thank you and help me welcome Susan. Susan Cain: Thank you, Alana. Hello everyone. Well, after researching and writing this book for about seven years, starting in 2005, I have come to believe that introversion and extroversion are as deep a part of who we are, as central to our identities as our gender.

And that's why it's very important to understand where we really fall on the introvert/extrovert spectrum. And when I say this, I don't mean where we seem to fall or who we seem to be because most of us, in this extroverted culture of ours, act much more extroverted than we really are. So what I'm asking is who are you deep down if you could spend your time exactly how you wanted, your work days, your weekends, who would you be? Would you be more introverted or more extroverted? And this is a really important question, so I want us to get to the answer, get to the bottom of it before we move forward with the talk.

So what I'm going to ask you to do is quickly split into groups of six and share with your group a private, personal memory from your childhood that you think illustrates who you really are. And then we will take the most private, personal and deep memories and share them with the entire audience. And yes, it's true, I'm just kidding. And if there are consultants in the audience, please don't do this to people in future

talks

, introverts hate this kind of thing. So let me raise my hand, how many of you were thinking, when you still thought I could be serious, like how can I get out of here right now, without insulting the speaker?

Yes Yes. And how many of you would describe yourselves as introverts? Wow, my goodness, could it be one hundred percent? No. Any extroverts in the room? Well maybe. I would say we have about five extroverts. That's good because you can tell us your perspective. Then, of course, the important thing is not only to identify who we are but why we are the way we are? What makes an introvert an introvert or an extrovert an extrovert? And the truth is that there are as many answers to this question as there are personality psychologists. But in short, what really sets us apart is that introverts prefer environments that are less stimulating.

So now I'm talking about social stimulation, so by that I mean you might prefer to have a glass of wine with a close friend instead of going to a party full of strangers. But I'm not just talking about social stimulation, this is also reflected in things like how much noise you like to have in the background, how bright the lights are, how bright you like the lights to be. Even something as crazy as putting a drop of lemon juice on your tongue, if I could do that right now, we would find that the introverts in the room would salivate more in response to the lemon juice than our five extroverts, because introverts respond more to stimulation and therefore prefer smaller amounts.

And it's very important to understand this because what it tells us is that if we want to optimize our lives and operate at our maximum powers and with our maximum amount of energy, we really need to place ourselves in environments that have the appropriate amount. stimulation for us. And there's an interesting experiment by psychologist Russell Geen who even found that if you give introverts and extroverts math problems to solve with different levels of background noise, the introverts will do better when the background noise is lower and the extroverts will solve problems. better when the background noise is higher.

So we all have our different sweet spots and then of course the question is that most of life is a one-size-fits-all environment: our schools, our workplaces are like that. So how are things designed? How can we think about ways to tailor the amount of stimulation to individual preferences? And the fuel that drove me to write this book, to spend the last seven years doing it, is that I have been distressed to see that our world is set up primarily in a way that I believe maximizes the energies of extroverts, but not the energies of extroverts. introverts.

I think the bias in our culture against introversion is so deep and we internalize it from such a young age that we don't even realize we're doing it. But from the moment you are introduced to a preschool classroom as a toddler, you immediately find yourself in an environment where you are expected to be happy in a group. And teachers have been found, at all age levels of the educational system, the vast majority of teachers believe, thank you, much better. The vast majority of teachers believe that the ideal student is an extrovert. Although, by the way, introverted children get better grades.

And the same thing happens in the workplace, in our workplaces, and you can tell me what your experiences are at Google. I'd like to know more about this when we get to the Q&A later. But generally in the workplace we now live in an environment where there are more and more open plan offices where people don't have much privacy, they work in groups most of the time. And studies tell us that introverts are routinely passed over for leadership positions even though recent groundbreaking research by Adam Grant of the Wharton School has found that introverted leaders often outperform extroverts.

And I say all this, when I say this is not to take anything away from extroverts, I think extroversion is an enormously attractive personality style, it's just to say that this tendency, this type of chauvinism that we have, this two-level structure The way we view personality leads to a colossal waste of talent, energy and happiness, and we need to take a much more yin and yang approach to balancing the two styles. And I want to talk about how this plays out in our lives and I want to show you why it's so important that we get to this place of yin and yang and why we'll all be better for it;

Introverts for sure, but all of us. And to do this, I'll start in an unlikely place. I'll take you on a very quick tour of the animal kingdom starting with a colony of fruit flies. It turns out that there are introverts and extroverts in almost every species in the animal kingdom. I mean, who knew this, but I discovered it when I was researching. Many species have introverts and extroverts. So, down to the level of fruit flies, there are what biologists call fruit flies that sit still and jump on the spot. And then there are the fruit flies that explore the outer margins of fruit fly society.

And the reason they do this, the reason many species are structured this way, is because the two types have very different survival strategies. And now I'm going to move a little further into the animal kingdom and take you to the world of the pumpkin seed fish. An evolutionary biologist named David Sloan Wilson did a really fascinating experiment with a pond full of these fish, where he came to the pond and dropped this gigantic trap right in the middle of the pond, an event that, according to him, from the perspective of the fish it must have happened.

It looked like a spaceship landing right in the middle of his backyard. And the fish responded very differently to this foreign presence. Some of the fish, the introverted fish, responded by saying, "I'm not going near that thing." And they floated on the edge of the pond and as a result made it completely impossible for David Sloan Wilson to catch them in his trap. So if that trap had been a real predator, those fish, the introverted fish, would have been the ones that would have survived. The extroverted fish immediately had to investigate what that trap was and they swam to it without anything getting in their way and, of course, they immediately got trapped.

If it had been a real predator, they would have been destroyed. But it's not that simple because Sloan Wilson returns a few days later with a fishing net and manages to collect the introverted fish that had escaped him the first time and brings them back to his laboratory. And what he finds in this environment is that extroverted fish do much better because this is a strange world, it's an unknown world and extroverts tend to get more comfortable very quickly in unfamiliar environments. And so in this case, the extroverted fish started eating more quickly and going about their business more quickly, while the introverted fish fell behind and didn't do well.

So this is kind of a parable that tells us that there really are different types of strategies for success and strategies for the survival and flourishing of our species. And now I will finally return to human beings and first I want to talk to you about children, about human children. Let me ask you, how many people in the audience here have children? Well, probably about two-thirds of you. But even for those of you who don't have children, the reason what I'm about to tell you is important is that human children have not yet absorbed the social norms of our society and that is why they act the way they are. really meant to act, as they really are.

And so, if we observe the behavior of children, we learn a lot about ourselves. So, of you parents, how many of you have ever attended some type of mommy and me class or daddy and me class? Well, not many of you. Let me explain what this is because it will be relevant. Basically, this is a class where a parent or babysitter brings a small child, usually a baby or a two-year-old, maybe a three-year-old, and everyone sits in a circle. I'll show you what it looks like. Yes, it looks like this. Everyone sits in a circle and sings songs and plays musical instruments and things like that.

Now, what you will find in these classes is that some of the children will behave like nanny fish, meaning they will stay close to their parents, sit on their parents' laps, not really participate, and appear scared or just reserved. And then other kids like that little baby in the reading monkey that's right in the middle of the room, he's a boy scout. And then he doesn't know where his mother is, everything is fine for him, he is perfectly comfortable. Now, the thing is that parents of child caregivers in these types of situations tend to feel quite worried about their children.

They feel like, "Wow, my son isn't getting much out of this class and maybe this is the story of his life. Maybe he will always have trouble participating and won't reap the rewards of what life has given him." . offer." And this is a really understandable concern, but I want to give you a broader picture of what's really going on with a child who behaves this way. That child is doing what psychologists call paying alert attention to things. It may seem like the child is sitting inertly and passively and not taking in anything, but that is not what is happening.

In fact, they are learning by observing and they are observing in a very attentive way. And very often with these children, I see it over and over again. , it may take them minutes, days, weeks, or months to immerse themselves in the situation at hand, but when they do, they already know the social rules, they already know the social nuances of what's going on because they've been paying attention all of this. time. And this way of paying attention to things, of noticing things that are scary but noticing things in general on a subtle level, continues in these children into adulthood.

It becomes a kind of way of coping. world and a way of processing information. So, for example, if you give these kids when they're a little older this kind of puzzle to solve where you have two pictures that seem to be very similar and you ask them to figure out what the subtle differences are between them. , these types of children will spend much more time than other children comparing themselves. In the laboratory you can see his eyes moving from one side to the othermore times than those of the most daring children. And more often than not they get the right answers.

And this kind of thing continues as these kids get older. So, you give them riddles to solve, adult-sized riddles, and it takes them longer to do it. They get better grades in school, earn, and are more likely to earn Phi Beta Kappa keys. And then the other thing and I'm sorry, extroverts, but introverts have been found to know more about many topics. In a study of college freshmen, they tested students' knowledge of 21 different subjects. It was like everything from art to astronomy to physics to statistics, and they found that introverts knew more about all of these topics.

And the relevant thing about this is that introverts are not more intelligent, when it comes to IQ, the two groups, introverts and extroverts, have a totally similar IQ. So instead, what's happening here is that the advantage that introverts have in these kinds of intellectual problem-solving puzzles is the same style of behavior that introverts are often criticized for, the same style of behavior that it makes you sit longer, reflect more, be more reserved, be more just slow to process things, that's the flip side of the behavioral style that helps you solve problems. Now, another way that these types of kids grow up to play really important roles in our culture is that introverts and extroverts have very different attitudes toward risk-taking, profoundly different attitudes.

Extroverts are much more likely, when they see something they want, to do it. And this really comes down to the level of neurochemistry. Extroverts have been found to have more active reward networks in their brain, so if they see something they want or if they're contemplating a promotion or whatever, literally their reward networks become more activated and they get excited, and this goes accompanied by all kinds of happy and effervescent emotions. And I think it's actually these emotions that make extroverts such enjoyable company. They are like champagne bubble emotions that arise with the contemplation of a reward.

And this can be a really great thing because it helps us seize the day when we have these kinds of feelings. But the downside to this way of being is that when you're so focused on a reward you don't see the warning signs that also come to you saying, "Hmm, maybe you should stop. Maybe there's a problem here." "I mean you literally don't see them as much. And introverts are much less likely to fall victim to that dynamic. I mean sometimes they do, these things aren't black and white, but they're less likely to fall victim to them.

And this is not to say that introverts don't also take risks because they do. But they tend to be slower and more cautious about it. A study of a group of traders at a London investment bank found that introverts were the most successful traders. , probably because of this way of processing information. And another example of this would be someone like Warren Buffett, who describes himself as an introvert and is famous for staying out of market bubbles that other people fell victim to because He is the type of person who has actually said that the key to investing for him is not his knowledge but his temperament, which is why he pays attention to the warning signs and sees them when they come.

Well, there are actually a lot of advantages that I want to tell you about, but I'll run out of time, so I'll just tell you one more for now and we can talk more in the Q&A as well. I want to talk to you about creativity. Thus, two important studies, one by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and another by Gregory Feist, have discovered that the most spectacularly creative people in various fields tend to be introverts. And they are not just any introverts, they are introverts who also have extroverted sides. They are people who can go out and exchange ideas and promote ideas, etc.

But they are also people who feel comfortable with solitude. And that is the key component because loneliness turns out to be a true catalyst for creativity. It is not the being and the end of everything, it is not the, it is a necessary but not sufficient condition, but it is necessary. And the reason for this is that we happen to be such social creatures, all of us, including introverts, are such social creatures that we literally cannot be around a group of people without being, without instinctively imitating each other's opinions. people in the group. So even something as seemingly primitive and personal and visceral as who you're attracted to, in reality, if you're in a group of people who have declared so-and-so attractive, you'll start to find this and that more attractive. than you would have done otherwise.

And this is just kind of a fundamental principle of human nature. And so, if you want to go and find out what you really think about things, you almost can't do it without isolating yourself to some degree. But I want to be very clear about what I'm saying here and what I'm not saying. So when I say this I am not trying to argue that man is an island after all, to contradict John Donne. We are human beings, we love and need each other. And I'm also not trying to say that we should abolish group work and teamwork.

I think it's clear that we need that part of the creative puzzle as well. And this is probably becoming more true every day because as the problems we face become more complex, we will need more and more than ever before to lean on each other. But what I am saying is that there are two types of contradictory impulses in human nature and one of these impulses is the one that makes us come together. It is the impulse that makes us love, need and trust each other. And then another of these impulses is the impulse for solitude, autonomy and independence.

Excuse me. And introverts have this last impulse especially strongly, but it is an impulse that we all share. And so, if we want to do it, we must find ways to harness both impulses in the most productive way possible. So I'm going to ask for three different types of takeaways for us to think about and I'm talking now on a big picture level and then in the Q&A session you can ask me questions that are more specific about your lives, your work life or your personal life or whatever. So the first thing I'd like to share with you is to give yourself more time for

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, more time for solitude, more time for escape, to truly feel entitled to it instead of feeling like it's something you need. feel guilty for.

The second is to think very differently about the next generation of introverted children, because the same children who were sitting on their parents' laps when they were two or three years old and then become teenagers who develop solitary interests that they love. chase, whether it's spider taxonomy or 19th century art, or whatever, these kids are often the great artists, writers, and thinkers of tomorrow or they're just really fantastic human beings. That is why we must stop treating them as if there is something wrong with them and, instead, appreciate and delight in what is good about them.

And then the last thing I would say is for all of you to really think hard about what the key to your own power is. and from fairy tales there are many different types of powers offered in this world. And some of us are given lightsabers like Luke Skywalker, and can slash our way through galaxies. And some people receive academic education, sorry, magical education. But there are some people to whom the power they have been given is the key to a secret garden full of inner riches. And the trick to living well, the trick to living well, is to use the power that you've been given instead of trying to make do with all the different powers that are offered to you.

What is the power that has been given to you? And that's what I want to tell you in closing. May everyone use their powers well and brilliantly. Thank you so much. man #1: We have questions, of course. Susan Cain: Well, I know there are questions. So, you can ask me anything, any topic. Everything is alright. Alana Weiss: And I'll start with - Susan Cain: You're going to start Alana Weiss: reading a – Susan Cain: Okay. Alana Weiss: Question that came from Lynn, who works at Google and lives in Chicago. Susan Cain: Okay. Alana Weiss: And I wanted to know what you thought of the Time magazine cover.

She writes: "As soon as I saw the cover, I was immediately alarmed by how inaccurate Time may have been with its choice. The cover says, 'The Power of Shyness.' This is ironic since Susan Cain, on whom it is based the book of this Time article, wrote an article titled "Don't Call Introverted Kids Shy" published by Time online at the same time. I think this cover was widely read and is a respectable magazine. And she worries that this will do kids no favors by reinforcing a misconception. Susan Cain: Yes, thank you, that's an important question. So yeah, Time Magazine published this cover story a week or two ago that was based on the research for my book and they called it "The Power of Shyness." There is nothing to shyness, well that is not true, shyness is very different from introversion.

So what shyness is is the fear of social judgment. It's the fear of being socially humiliated, while introversion is just what I was talking about before, the preference for less stimulating environments. And, in practice, these two overlap to some extent, which is why there are some people who are both shy and introverted. But psychologists debate the extent to which they overlap, so acting as if they are synonyms muddies the waters. But it's also kind of complicated because, at the same time that I'm saying all this, sometimes there's a tendency today where more and more people are talking about the value of introversion, and in doing so, I think sometimes there's a tendency to demonize introversion. shyness and I don't do it.

I don't want to do that either. Because shyness in itself really doesn't have much to recommend it. It is a painful emotion. But the underlying temperament, the careful, sensitive temperament that tends to produce shy or introverted people, that temperament has a lot of value. And all these things come together in one soup. man #2: Hi, thanks -- Susan Cain: Yes, hi. man #2: for your talk. Susan Cain: Sure. man #2: One of the things I've been struggling with or at least listening to all this is that I've always struggled with not finding myself as extroverted or introverted. Susan Cain: Yeah. man #2: And I've taken Myers-Briggs five times, six times, numerous times - Susan Cain: man #2: and the extroverts tell me, "Oh, you're definitely introvert" and then introverts will tell me, "Oh, you're definitely an extrovert." Susan Cain: Right, right. man #2: Even in your talk, there are certain elements that you will tell about that, like when I was a kid, like I knew it was like that...

Susan Cain: Yeah. man #2: but then there are other things that say, oh no, I've definitely been an introvert so... Susan Cain: Yeah. man #2: and then you have these key takeaways where it's like I have to find my inner self... Susan Cain: Um-hum. man #2: or like any gift they've given me. Susan Cain: Right. man #2: Well, it's not very clear that I like what I'm supposed to emphasize and -- Susan Cain: man #2: no one has been able to tell me otherwise -- Susan Cain: UH Huh. man #2: so I'm interested to know, I mean, am I like a mutant case or...

Susan Cain: man #2: like... or like, because I know it's a gradient and I know... Susan Cain: Yes. man #2: I know there's a lot of ambiguity about this, but I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Susan Cain: Yes, absolutely. In fact, there is a word for people like you. You're not a mutant, you're an ambivert. And that's the word for people who fall in the middle of the introvert/extrovert spectrum. And I often think that people who are ambiverts have the best of both worlds because I think each of these personality styles has real gifts and I think people like you can more easily choose which style they want to adapt to at any given time.

But I will also say that even for people who truly feel like they are on one side of the spectrum or the other, all of us are still gloriously mixed creatures. So we all have a little bit of the other side in us. It's like I'm standing here trying to give a talk about what masculinity is and what femininity is. I could get it right for the most part, but I couldn't get it right for any particular human being, and I couldn't get it right even for the group as a whole because it's too complex. And yet, it is useful to talk about these categories because they illuminate something.

So, your question. man #2: Yes, thank you. Susan Cain: Hello. man #3: Hello. I've read a little about different temperaments, like the Please Understand Me books... Susan Cain: Um-hum. man #3: Keirsey I think so, I'm not sure, but I wonder how your definition of introversion and extroversion relates to these other aspects of temperament, like introspectiveness and things like that.some elevating way. And I think, I'm trying to figure out what it is, I think it has something to do with these kinds of states that make us deeply aware of the fragile beauty of life and love and that that is a form of happiness in and of itself that It doesn't necessarily reflect the vision of fun and happiness that we tend to think of in our culture.

So that may be a more philosophical answer than you expected, but those are my thoughts for today. Yes. woman #2: Hi, I work on a team where I'm the introvert who's supposed to lead... Susan Cain: Uh-huh. woman #2: and I have a super outgoing member. And a very strong, very strong team. But how do I do it, if I take a lot of time to talk as you can see what I'm doing now? Susan Cain: Uh-huh, uh-huh. woman #2: and I have a colleague who can fill that space very easily. Susan Cain: Right. woman #2: Are there strategies to honor that person's voice while also being part of the conversation?

Susan Cain: But still being part of the conversation? Yeah, I mean, are you comfortable interrupting or does it feel like you're breaking a sacred trust? Because I think that's something that a lot of people feel. woman #2: I think, yes, I think it's a challenge, yes. Susan Cain: Yeah, yeah. So it would be one thing to understand that interrupting isn't actually a terrible violation, especially if the other person is talking a lot. But... and you might find it helpful to interrupt using your hands to say, "Oh, that's a great point, what's up with this?" And in a way that indicates, physically, that you are now occupying the space.

I'm trying to think of other ideas for you. Another thing: Do you have the kind of relationship where you can actually talk about this with your colleague? woman #2: That, that sounds like a good idea. Susan Cain: More comfortable? woman #2: Susan Cain: Uh-huh, huh-huh. woman #2: Okay. Susan Cain: Okay. woman #2: Thank you. Susan Cain: You're welcome. And I thank you very much. You were a truly wonderful audience and it was an honor to be here with you. Thank you.