Q&A: Culture & Theology Lecture - I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist with Frank Turek

I don't know that maybe the salt in the ocean has also changed. It is often used to try to date the young Earth. Well, you

have

to make assumptions. The same goes for radioactive dating, which is not used to date the universe, but. There are objects dated on that or on Earth and then you

have

to make assumptions that you can't prove are bad, or you have to assume that some things have stayed the same or that the amount of uranium or the amount of lead was assumed to be zero at the time. At first these are all assumptions that cannot be proven now many people say well the Bible shows that the universe is young, let me ask you a question, what is the first verse of the Bible?

It says that in the beginning God created the heavens on earth okay, when did God create the heavens on earth in the beginning when was the beginning and it says no it says we say the days well wait in the first verse it says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth it does not say when that was since the initial creation happened before day 1 the Bible does not say how old the universe is when it begins day 1 begins in verse 3 every day begins with the phrase and God said now could be six or seven thousand years old, of course I'm open to that I'm just saying that we often think that the universe or we often think that the Bible says something that it doesn't say, it doesn't say that it is now 6000 years old, even if you think that the days are relevant to age, questions the The word for day in Genesis could have four different possible meanings, in fact the words don't really have meanings, they have uses like if I say the word bark, what does that mean?

You don't know, I mean the bark of a tree or the bark. of a dog depends on the context how I use it there are four possible uses 12 hours why because verse five says he called the day he remembered the light day in the darkness night that is 12 hours could be, of course, the common twenty-four hours could also It would be a mistake, like if we said that Peyton Manning was a great quarterback in his time, we wouldn't think that Peyton Manning was good for only 24 hours. Wouldn't we get the idea or the fourth use which I'll get to in a minute also the third day seems to require more than 24 hours because you have the growth of vegetation including fruit plants you say well God could have sped it up yeah he could have done it, but now you are making an assumption that you cannot prove. right, yeah, you put Miracle Grow on things, it doesn't grow in 24 hours, and the sixth day also seems to require more than 24 hours to name the animals, how many animals are there?

In fact, Brad Stein, who is the Christian comedian, has an offer for this, he goes at the beginning of the day Adam was very, very creative, he saw an animal go by, it would be a hippo, he would see another one coming, a rhino at the end of the day, Khal Ochs, you know, just came out. gas can't do all that in 24 hours now here is the fourth possible use of the word day the seventh day is not over yet that is an indefinite period of time we are still on the seventh day right now according to Hebrews four yes We are in the seventh day right now, maybe the other days, what we just don't know is that there is no conflict between science and the Bible.

There is a conflict between some interpretations of science and the Bible. It may be old. may be young, it's not definitive, what is definitive is that there was a creation that God created, not when, so I urge you that if you think this is an important topic, that's fine, but don't make it a test of orthodoxy, particularly the young earth, to put it well. If you're not a young earth or you're close it's not a belief that's just stupid because I guarantee you this when you get to heaven God is not going to tell you if you thought I was old or young oh you thought I was old you're out of here and, by the way, this has never been a controversy in the church until recently, what was the biggest controversy 400 years ago, what no, no, although that was, I'm talking about science, yes, yes, we revolve around the Sun. or the Sun revolves around us.

I propose that you can make a better argument if you simply take a literal interpretation of the text that the Earth does not move, that the Sun revolves around the Earth and you can do it, that the universe is 6,000 years old. old man or whatever it says the earth does not move it is set on its foundations it says the sun rises and the sun sets but no one says if you believe the earth moves in the sun no one says you are giving up on the Bible Are you a moving terrestrial or a stationary terrestrial?

Nobody says that because we use our knowledge of the science of general revelation to say ah, this is phenomenological language, it's not intended to be an astronomy lesson, it's meant to observe just as we do today when you go home tonight look at the meteorologist the meteorologist is going to say that it will dawn tomorrow 7-eleven is not going to say that the dawn will become poor he is not going to say that the rotation of the Earth will become evident at 7-eleven is used in phenomenological language we do that in fact, everything the time I used it all the time we talk in phrases that are not literal, right? and the Bible does the same thing people say.

Is the Bible taken literally? I said where it should be taken literally. like when you talk to me, I'll take literally what you say, that should be taken literally, but if you say look, my car cost me an arm and a leg, I don't think you're a double amputee and what we tend to see with the Bible for Some reason is that we tend to see everything literally when not everything should be taken literally, if it were then God would have to have wings and God would have to have eyes and God would have to have a body. and Jesus would have to have hinges because after all he is a door, I mean he uses your common sense, who else?

There's a gentleman down here and while we're putting the microphone down here, did you hear one Adam say to another Adam? I lost an electron on the second one Adam said are you sure on the first one? Adam said I'm sure this side doesn't do it right. Yes, Sarah, go ahead. Hi Frank, so I've been reading your book and I have an idea of ​​what the roadrunner tactic is still. I want to see if it is applicable here. AHA. I often get into conversations with my coworkers about topics related to apologetics and one of the responses I get, actually a couple of times, is something like you know you're wrong and I say why and he says, well, every time. law has an exception except this one now I feel like there are you know, wait, wait, wait, every law has an exception again, yes, the one we say, all the rules say. has an exception, except this one, you know, wait, wait, it follows the rule that everyone will have an exception, that's what I thought and then they would tell me it's gone, except this one.

I say, well, you know what basis they have, yes, but. I mean because because they say my thought was to say well, doesn't that have an exception? but then they say well, every rule except the one I just said has an exception, so I'm like no. I'm so shocked by that that I don't have well, if you're stunned, what you can say is now look, we're all adults here, mr. pooped pants because that's just stupid to me, some things are just stupid and not worth responding to, right? I mean, that person is just not interested in the truth, that person is just trying to throw up all kinds of smoke, how is that possible?

Ask the question if it were true, would you become a Christian? If they say no, move on, right? The person is not open to the truth. The person has already made a decision, so if they are going to think of silly things like that and no. recognize the truth you see that there is a difference between proof and persuasion you can prove something but that does not mean that someone will be persuaded by it go back to Pascal people almost invariably base their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what that they find attractive, then you would call that closed-mindedness through a response like that yes, okay, thank you, yes, that's right, whatever that man, oh, okay, yes, sir, well, now wait , let's go to someone else to make sure other people because you've already done it. a question, if anyone else has a question, if not, we'll come back to you, but if anyone else had a question down here, this gentleman, that's always a good question, don't worry, so on one of your last slides.

You talked about how things changed with the disciples after Jesus died mm-hmm um, you talked about the Trinity versus one god, etc., just at one point you said the seventh day until Sunday worship. I was wondering where exactly you got that text from the Bible that is Colossians. chapter 2 well, that's when Paul says, let's not let anyone tell you that you need to worship on any Sabbath day or that you need to recognize any Sabbath day. Well, they started meeting, it's somewhere in the book of Acts, if anyone can find the reference. I think it's in the book of Acts that they started meeting on the first day of the week, which happened to be a work day and it wasn't the Sabbath, so you used to talk about the Levitical law and that's something, but then you have something like the Ten Commandments that are written by the hand of God and so suddenly the commandments of God himself have changed not the death of Jesus not all the commandments were fulfilled by Jesus but if they changed they were fulfilled they were not changed they are no longer all of them apply to us In fact, of the ten commandments, nine of them are repeated in the New Testament, there is only one that is not sanctified, the Sabbath, the other nine are repeated because we are not.

It's no longer in a theocracy, that's already done, so the Sabbath is no longer in effect, all of my dad's, that's just a comment, but still, the Sabbath is the only commandment that says: remember it well, we can remember it just like I remember things in history, but that doesn't mean we necessarily practice it today, well I mean it's an internal dispute between Christians, but then why would Paul say don't let anyone Tell you that you have to worship on a particular Sabbath day? That's Colossians chapter 2, look, we're. free from the law. Look, many Christians don't understand that we are free from the law because Christ has fulfilled it, but James says in James chapter 2 that there is a law of freedom.

What does that mean? It means that if you obey God's commandments. You will be free from the consequences of not obeying those who do not obey those commandments and, in other words, the laws help you live a better life. You do not make your way to God by obeying the laws, but you can live a better life and be a better testimony to others if you live a moral life, but those with whom you are not earning God's favor by living a moral life or are not By putting God in your debt, you are simply improving your life and you are being a better witness to others, but the whole book of Galatians, as you know, is about not engaging in legalism.

No, no, no, don't think that you are going to reach God in what you started with the Spirit. You're not going to take down the law, no one else, this gentleman down here. I think at one time or another Christians, and especially non-Christians, have struggled with that when you think about morality and when God had not only men but women and children slaughtered like after Moses came down from the mountain and He opened the earth and everyone what is their response to that, even a more dramatic one is the entire generation of Noah. I mean, that's what everyone is dead except for eight people.

Here's the question when God judges people, whether it's Noah, whether it's the Israelites, whether it's the Canaanites, whatever it is. Is God arbitrary? Does he wake up one day like a mafia boss and leave? The Canaanites want him dead. No, he always gives reasons. The reasons are good, in terms of the Canaanites, not only are they practicing bestiality and all kinds of sexual sin, but they are also sacrificing their children to the molten god Molech, they would literally put their children on a molten bull-headed god. hot. would wither in the arms of this heated God and the musicians would beat their drums louder so the parents couldn't hear their own children screaming and you know, I always listen to

atheist

s and if there's a good God, why not?

Stop all the evil in the world and here is a case where God intervenes and stops this evil and

atheist

s complain about it. You notice him watching, whether you want him to intervene or not, he intervenes and stops it now. The key question here. Can God murder someone? We can murder because we are not the giver of life, so we are not supposed to take life, but God has the authority to take life anytime he wants, he has the authority to take you out at two years old. or 82 years, in fact, it depends on him if God exists and if there is a life after death, people do not really die, they just change their location.

God can move you from this place to another any time he wants, so if you look in the Old Testament for these cases. of God intervening to kill people that is totally within his prerogative and by the way it is interesting to me the same people who say that God should not kill these children are the same people who do not want any law against abortion why when God Playing at being God is immoral, but when we play at being God, we call that immoral right. God has the authority to give and take awaylife, but he doesn't do it arbitrarily, so that's the way I look at those passages and, in fact, if you really want to get into There's a book written by Paul Copan called Is God a Moral Monster? and he addresses all these Old Testament topics and he treats them very well, so if you're really interested in this topic, I recommend you get that book.

God, a moral monster, this gentleman had a question for Zach right in front and then we'll get back to that lady in the back. Yes sir. One of my questions relates to how God treated certain people in the Old Testament versus how they treat Christians. Now the easiest thing to see is sexual immorality like homosexuals. Something about Christ's death changed the way God looks at quasi-sexuals because that was part of an ancient law and can they live freely as homosexuals now if they believe? in Christ and I have full expectation, I go to heaven, the laws, the engine sees, there are the moral laws and the civil laws, and they are different, you know, a lot of people say, well, you know, we can't eat shrimp in the Old Testament, so homosexuality should also go away or the prohibitions against homosexuality just like the prohibitions against RYM, but that is a misunderstanding of the Old Testament law, the prohibition of eating shrimp if you ate them, you know? you were just unclean because At one time if you practiced homosexuality they killed you then the penalty was different one is moral the other civil but the entire Old Testament has disappeared anyway it has been fulfilled in Christ the prohibitions against homosexual behavior have been reaffirmed the penalty is different just like all the penalties have been different there is a difference between the offense and the penalty in the Old Testament they are in a theocracy God is their king in the New Testament God is no longer the king of Israel in that sense and so the penalties are not the same now regarding sexual immorality today in the church it is not just homosexuality the problem the bible prohibits any sexual behavior outside of marriage of a man and a woman that includes homosexuality it also includes fornication which is premarital sex oh you can't say that in the United States I just did it includes adultery includes pedophilia includes incest includes bestiality includes any sexual behavior outside of that but you see that there is a difference between attractions and actions we all have attractions that we should not act on and say that because I have an attraction that necessarily mean that I have to participate in the action would be nonsense, it would be like me saying that it is okay for me.

Gabe asked me why I was born with the anti-gay gene, right, that doesn't make any sense, so I think the Bible treats sex in a restrictive way for one extremely important, several reasons, but from a pragmatic point of view, the Sex is like fire, if you keep it in the fireplace, it will warm you anywhere else in the house. you're going to burn down your house and that's why it's restricted to the relationship between a man and a woman within marriage because sex outside of those bonds will ultimately destroy and that's true for any sexual contact and in fact, if you think about this, most of the time people we love we don't have sex with and if we did it would destroy the relationship love by definition binds to itself there is no such thing as free sex or free love which is not love love binds to good of the loved one then one of the reasons why we are in so much trouble in our country is because we have the new religion which is sex and you know whose fault it is, it is our fault because the church has been quiet because the church has been doing some of the same things that the world has been doing, we have this pact of tolerance.

I won't say anything negative about your bad behavior if you don't say anything negative about mine and we'll all go down together, right? Yes, ma'am, is that okay in the At the beginning you said that good with the comparisons of old and new Christianity you said they were monotheistic before. I was just wondering why Moses wrote in the Old Testament, Let us make man in our image if they did not believe. No, I think so. I just don't think it was as explicit in the Old Testament as it is in the New, which is why I said the Trinity was hinted at in the Old Testament, but it's not as clear as it is in the New, so it's the same thing.

Yes, it's not gone. in the back at the beginning and they believed that he was a triune God that they had to have because I called him Elohim, which is plural, well, they may not have known, they didn't know, I was trying, they made a new use of the plural, but they didn't know it. who was Jesus still Lord our God is one God yes, he is one they knew that he was singular and they knew that he was multiple they knew that he was singular in the sense that he had a divine nature but there were multiple persons in that divine nature but they did not have the end of the monotheists the developed doctrine of the Trinity had not been developed until the progressive revelation of the New Testament that is why Paul calls some things mysteries that are now revealed then there were mysteries in the Old Testament that were revealed in in the New Testament they are worshiping the same God but they did not have as much information about that God as they have now.

The New Testament is an explanation of the old test. Yes, the Old Testament was not eliminated because in Jeremiah, which is where God calls it in the New Testament where the New Covenant is given, it is in Jeremiah that he will give Israel the law and in his heart and in his mind and not in a stone because He wants it in our flesh so that we can forgive and thus We can have compassion for other people, but we still have to do the right thing. Oh, I agree with that, but what I'm saying is that the theocracy of the Old Testament has been eliminated, which is why Paul and 2 Corinthians 3 talk about tables of stone. passed away we are no longer under the six hundred eleven laws or 613 laws of the Old Testament you already agree with that correct I think they still exist we do not have a temple to fulfill them for one thing no we do not have a government like the one they had in Israel, they do not apply to us because we do not have the same governmental dictates that they had back then, you cannot have something great when they got down to work, they did not have their laws, they did not follow the laws of Israel when they were in Babylon, they could not because they were under a different government, well the question is whether they did it and should we do it today and I think the testimony of the New Testament.

It is all that has been fulfilled in Christ so that we may be free from the law, that is Paul's central point in Galatians. Sofie fulfilled everything that he fulfilled, you shall not kill, and that is why we are free to know that those have been like ice' mentioned above, those commandments have been repeated in the New Testament but they are repeated in the New Testament and the commandments of the Old Testament have been fulfilled by Christ, so when we put our trust in him, since he fulfilled them, his righteousness is given to us and since we cannot fulfill them all.

He has done those laws for us, no, he has forgiven his sins, yes he has done it and he has given us his justice. Would you do me a favor? mm-hmm when you get home, would you look through Acts and discover all the places where Paul celebrated? on the Sabbath and where Paul walked into the synagogue after 20-something years of preaching and go to Acts 20 one and find out why he went to the temple with all those people to take the Nazarite vows and he wanted those nazzers to come out, those are the vows correct. I have included why he did that.

He went into the temple to try to get people to become Christians and said, I became all things to all men so I could win, so he goes back and reads his back. Remember one and review all. from Acts find out how many times he was there on the Sabbath, okay, but let me mention something else, since Acts is primarily a descriptive book, it is not a prescriptive book, but see if he believed that he had really changed until Sunday, he would not have gone good. then he wouldn't have said in Colossians 2 not to tell anyone that you have to live a certain Sabbath day.

I know that has nothing to do with this ad. Okay, we'll agree to disagree. Thank you. Okay, but the one you gave. Should they look for it? Well, these are all internal conflicts between Christians. Okay, you guys have been a great audience.