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phoenix persönlich: Gerhard Schröder zu Gast bei Inga Kühn

Mar 17, 2022

phoenix

pers

onally for nothing

pers

onally today with former chancellor

gerhard

schr

öder a warm welcome thank you very much i would like to come as the permanent representation we are pleased that in hannover and in hannover to be more precise we meet here at the permanent representation briefly for our viewers how are you maybe not so you know this is a pub that hallowed the old bonn republic a bit and shows a lot of old photos what do you think while looking at the photos today of course i was often in bonn in what was then the province like young member of parliament and in 1980 for the first time as a member of the federal parliament and there he met, by the way, the first young people, who at that time were really very young, crossed the party line and sat in the evening with a glass a beer or two and we started talking about if something could develop between us and then berlin came along so the bonn republic was too much c end the federal government is fighting to get to berlin and the province at that time became the s permanent representation very interesting because the german embassy in the former GDR could not be called an embassy for constitutional reasons but had to be called a permanent representation and this is the permanent representation so the province in berlin still exists today and also in hannover i don't know i think in hamburg i don't know where else either but there is traditional rhenish cuisine heaven and earth and there is horrible kölsch beer but it is good to point out that we have to break with the old times so exciting that here and with the current political situation which is determined by the pandemic discussion of course and people are wondering more and more impatiently day by day when we will finally get our normal life back how do you feel about it, so I don't think it's that bad since it's safe for people who have children that I can go to school. ela and then i have to work from home n and then i also have kids to take care of so my life as someone who can set their own working hours is of course much more privileged than others to the extent that this form of slowdown associated with it is not so bad I do a lot of sports what you usually do and play golf I do my usual weightlifting exercises in all that and I don't feel uncomfortable with it I also miss being with friends when they go to the pubs, for example here in the steppe or wherever but i have the impression that we are quite privileged in germany and maybe you should clear it up with all the mistakes that have been made we will only guess here but in our overly bureaucratic but functional healthcare system to live even within europe is a privilege because it works and no one also the health insurance patient does not have to be afraid of not being optimally cared for it is a great advantage for that our state has and that must also be saluted and by the way the great work of those who are really tormented in hospitals a retirement home for people who have assumed this responsibility because it's great so more works than doesn't work in the country returns anyway the mistakes you just talked about or the alleged mistakes there is an accusation that the eu acted too hesitantly it was a mistake to ask for the vaccine together there is even talk of trudel europe share this criticism share yes the first time it was right to say we'll make it European but the European bureaucracy and leadership obviously haven't been able to get it for a while you can't be happy in a situation like this that one point the other point occasionally I get the impression that he also wanted to keep companies in the d business like sanofi, for example, in the result is not then they were able to deliver and it also seems that this is how my print came to the delay no, it didn't have to have been or second of all I want to state clearly what Mr.
phoenix pers nlich gerhard schr der zu gast bei inga k hn
Spahn really intended to order vaccines on a national level in addition to the European dimension, especially from Germany because the Germans were good at development that would have been correct there were omissions but where they don't happen in a situation like this in which we were and still are to the extent that criticism is now cheap some is fine that others the things in this criticism are exaggerated but not now we are in the situation in germany where people already he is looking forward to the vaccine and if we look at britain we see that the brits have just left the eu, they have ordered much faster and they have not already ordered there and they are way ahead of us in terms of vaccination rates lie that is unfortunate I would also say that it is an organizational vice.
phoenix pers nlich gerhard schr der zu gast bei inga k hn

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phoenix pers nlich gerhard schr der zu gast bei inga k hn...

Above all, this can be seen in the EU Commission, because if you compare the costs it generates in the pandemic period in the economic area compared to what you could have ruined if you had ordered the wrong vaccine or too much. there is no comparison to that extent, I think that the European bureaucracy was not covered with the clear leadership of the responsible commissioner with glory, that has to be said critically, but overall, it was a situation that was so new and so old that it was so big that you have to be a little nicer too when it comes to this legitimate criticism.
phoenix pers nlich gerhard schr der zu gast bei inga k hn
I want it to stay that way. At the moment, there is another point in the debate, but there should be privileges for vaccinated people, such as going to concerts, going to restaurants. the ethics board is grappling with the question how do you see what it looks like? I do not think it does. There are legal reasons for this. even if you can no longer infect anyone, the restrictions on fundamental rights can be a bit. I can understand that I studied that once, on the other hand, it is also about equality and no one knows exactly if someone who has been vaccinated can only be vaccinated for the first time. time or if you can't really infect others and by the way it's also a question of who gets vaccinated all those who have the opportunity to get prime opportunities and then are in a better position when it comes to visiting restaurants etc.
phoenix pers nlich gerhard schr der zu gast bei inga k hn
Is it okay or does it not make sense in one to say such a situation before we have not overcome the pandemic, before we have not achieved what is called herd immunity, there should be no individual privileged citizens anywhere, and I think that is quite well when ethics the council said ok there are difficult legal reasons to differentiate but in general we must stick together it is as a society as people in this society the federal republic of germany has opened the coffers its former or its comrades or auf der wolf they said we have enough money however in view of these billions one wonders where the money will come from after 20 30

schr

öder yes of course but in the end it can and olaf scholz is right it can only come from growth let's imagine for a moment if nothing is done, the economic structures would have perished, which can be sustained with money so that they are still available in the next generation is reasonable and the payment of debts must happen over time it must happen over time and it is all the easier the more solid the structures that we need to create prospects for the next generation to the extent that the current federal system of government has done and we could also do because we want to have a strong enough economy compared to other European states it was correct, one or the other mistake may have occurred in individual cases, but the general line was correct and I say this with respect for the current federal government, and from made by both the chancellor also before the Minister of Finance, who had a significant participation in this that had the aforementioned boom, the necessary man the bams, the question arises of how to proceed and there is a debate on the debt brake, which is It can relax even more, if it turns to budgetary discipline in the State budget, what do you think about that?
I have never thought much about it because it restricts There is a lot of bureaucratic political action, so I think that the current debate about remaining and having to continue being able to act in times of crisis is absolutely right and let's even think about what the Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Brown said about it, he said that, so to speak, the maintenance of economic structures is more important than sticking to the debt brake i can sign it i didnt think i would ever praise it i would go back to europe we were miserable there on vaccines they complain the west is in a coma in your last book and call a very, very conscious Europe, it is sovereign with its own European army and the dissolution of nato, that should not amuse the americans and we are not asking for the dissolution of nato to make that clear, but for its change, that is, the creation of a stronger European component, why do we have the situation that, on the one hand, we have the United States as a strong superpower, this worries us, on the other side or, we are still a strengthening of Asia under the leadership of China, the largest. economy in the world with everything that is connected with it and what is in between a strong Europe there s but in this context you see difficulties as opportunities and in this sense I think we must now work to ensure that a strengthened Europe develops between the two poles america asia and that will only work if france and germany take the initiative together and not only in monetary policy through the ecb reach an agreement and create a uniform concept, but also in financial, economic and social policy because the dsd differences still have strengths, not weaknesses, and that is why we are very consciously focusing on making europe a bit so that it can play an economic and political role in the world in this europe it shows in your book that you have a certain skepticism towards the usa i say now they too say they were never that close i'm just not born with the golden spoon in my mouth how did you mean that because i have America? that i had refused no reason i was never connected with the americans i did not belong to the generation of the so-called sixties that maybe for other reasons i was against the war in vietnam i was on the streets of nördlingen to protest in favor of kennedy during his assassination and He said that this is a point to show solidarity with the other America that values ​​itself, I did everything that I don't have anti-American sentiments, but I also don't want us to be the 51st state of the United States in energy policy than in other issues, the states of america are or are treated that way no we are sovereign partners we want to stay that way but that means and we as a federal government are aware of that for example in the context of the iraq war we decide for ourselves what happens in terms of energy policy abroad and security policy and we are not in favor of anyone, but we are a sovereign state and we want to remain so, not s we stay with you ect on energy policy and in this regard nordring two a gas pipeline that is supposed to connect russia directly through the baltic sea to germany lets say directly you work for gazprom means you work for this russian state owned company and of course you probably have an interest in advocating them, the americans on the other hand have their own reasons, germany is not isolating itself with this project no i don't think so for example there is already nord stream 1 which transfers and transports 55 billion cubic meters of gas from russia to neckermann and we need the second line why are we from nuclear phased out in my time by the way i still think its right that we should and want to leave coal for climate reasons and we should definitely trust in renewable energy, but it will not be enough for the foreseeable future to supply our economy with the affordable energy we need for a period of d e transition either not n 10 20 or 30 years no one can really judge gas as the only reasonable and environmentally friendly fossil energy carrier and we have to wonder where to get something like that you can't bake and the German tanks are depleted Norwegians are on the Dutch border I don't want to talk anymore so we need pipeline gas from Russia so if she flees get liquefied gas from Qatar where the Americans also deliver us green by the way so quiet that it comes from fracking technology that we in Germany are not allowed to use if it's up to green but in America it seems ok if it's more expensive the quality is worse and why should we do that we don't depend from someone we have known for generations who even back in the days of the soviet union delivered correctly we were paid correctly we never had any problems why in the future it seems to me that h there is a lot of ideology going on to be e and less rational economic policy rational energy policy should not be of course we would be if you said we don't make ourselves dependent on anyone reference to americans of course we make ourselves dependent on russia with that and theFor the sake of completeness , there are also those who say that we do not need this gas, I already heard them because I write my Aldi in these studies, they must be careful that they are counterbalanced in winter because I think that we want to get out of nuclear energy to stay I am also in favor that we have to get out of coal this set the weather over a longer period of time i am in favor and i am very much in favor of us using renewable energy sources even though we celebrate but it will not be enough to keep an industrial countryas germany functional in radio so we need gas for the next 10 15 20 years as bridging technology that's what we're working on i don't see fasting to criticize we have to find out what's going on we can't do it i assume you don't volunteer for the study It will be published everywhere what I do and there is nothing to get out of course I am someone who is and will be economically active also paid to work as a lawyer, for example. the reasons for the rejection of nord are two that are now also being disseminated in the european parliament to signal to the french that they are no longer necessarily so friendly with this idea with the pipeline, among other things, the merger with the case of alexei navalny very briefly alexander wahlen was poisoned with nori zug the russian war agent recovered in germany returned to moscow for a brief recap and this week was sentenced to several years in prison in a verdict that is hard to understand a suspended sentence became a sentence of imprisonment several years ago this verdict caused a lot of international outrage as you can see, so first of all I am not expressing myself judging people I do not know and the second thing I want to say is the following, why do you mix something that does not belong together with what has a nord stream pipeline to do with the herne case i want i don't see that and i think it's wrong to link the two if you think you would pressure russia for To create another situation, then you are wrong and in that sense I don't.
I don't understand everyone who thinks like this. If you now finish the last joke or don't finish it, that is, you stop, then something would change in relation to the case you mention. I don't see it that way and that's why I think we have to differentiate between one and the other and I'm not one of those who refer to the speeches also about the book we wrote that there is no book about new elections the sun is also on paper of russia in international politics and our interest in keeping russia as a partner in the future we have 1 but historically understood, everyone always went wrong when things went wrong in the relationship between germany and russia regarding peace in the world, always that it be tolerable, that it be better and therefore independent of the internal political problems that others can comment on, regardless of that, it is about that for the eu if it wants to play a role between those who mention america on the one hand those on the other side Having a partner is very important.
Russia stays no matter what happens in politics and on the other hand Turkey stays no matter what happens in politics, which I don't always like either. Let's go back to this at the price of tolerance. ility and resolve will be in the second of the navalny case I would like to take a look with you again the federal chancellor did not ask for the immediate release of the elections many well-known other politicians joined because with that you see I am not one of those the consequences of what others think that it is correct because I should do that I don't do that and in that sense I can understand the position of the federal chancellor, but not mine.
It is now the case that the driver was the one who also triggered considerable demonstrations in Russia. We also agreed among ourselves that we would write a book, but we want that to be in the book. plays don't want to have anything to do with others but of course we also talk about the day and you as someone who understands Russia yes you can we here is that actually something wrong or we use it in a way different in this derby, we are that interesting. it is so that those who are considered to understand Russia will be in Germany in the media, of course, not treated a little derogatory, if not discriminated against, but what is politics supposed to be if you are not able to understand the other side? you can't do rational politics, you don't have to approve what there is, it doesn't happen to me on many issues either, but at least I try to understand what are the reasons, on the other hand, that should be done and, by the way, again the book deals with international politics and not about the lord meanwhile well then let's go to a putin because the book is definitely about him and the state is speaking for the true besides hals there was a lot of criticism that he was actually elected in free elections which speaks against him being friends with him and knowing him well for many years there was almost a time during his chancellorship after that if you look at putin today and look back over the last few years what would you say has changed and if were it so it would be funny if people changed in the course of time goods have not changed in a long life yes if you know the story of herr k rks herr kauder by bertolt brecht and mr k meets a friend and about the matter mr k hasn't changed at all mr kaiser and he will of course remain a person in lifetime i will change it too and i hope it's positive what's the point of course the question has changed also mr putin changed in the course of his life and through work in any case only what i call friendship started in a cooperation that was productive for both sides for germany as well as for russia and from there developed a human relationship and a human relationship if you want a friendship you don't always have to be of the same opinion friendship also consists in the fact that you can express different positions this is definitely possible but if the other person is still the head of state of one of the most important countries in the world You don't express it publicly but when you express differences in the rating there is then I don't care on German television n be good as with relationships changed so he gave me the floor cl ave once we said that your party will remain my dignity yes because it is abbreviated to all kinds of people tobago party presidents norbert walter borjans and saskia esken said with the 2010 agenda the spd deviated from its course at that time how can you not judge this statement at all because this course was decided at the party congress with a majority of three quarters more than you actually cannot achieve at your party congress and it was not a story that I would do?
I have imposed the party I agree with you being reasonable and I have to say that very clearly when you look at my situation in Europe our most important partners if the verdict is France it is Portugal it is Spain it is as long as it is in the third sentence out of there because they are outside they are now as they are because they have the reform under my direction of their time they have not started or they have not started too late, many have not been done until now and they allow the economy to improve and the people who want to think about working and feed their families now better than the people in Germany no, they are worse and that's why I can't find a party leadership that understands that what we did with the agenda made Germany stronger and I weakened it by the way it also made spd voters would look better instead of the opposite i don't understand that and that's my conflict because i have problems with the party leadership which we occasionally discuss i rap n ova or something like that I should hit the cows as well as the woman can do it I don't know but kind and talk to them tell them my opinion but also not publicly and well I have a different idea than mine it ends up if I'm at all interesting someone should to name are two women who I think are amazing the job one is the media premier before finally and that one is united on gas issues that is his own position has relatively little to do with more one the other frank ev contributing in berlin and says we're going back to berlin here he comes, they come here and they want this city to get better again and these are two women who say it's okay if we want to do better then we also have to radiate competence in economic policy they both say that both do that and, curiously, they continue to be successful which makes me happy furniture and others that one might think that a country like Germany can be governed without economic competition, you are wrong n, even though the social democrats are a bit bitter about the federal elections this year, they have predicted many times that it will end up with a black-green government alliance, even participating in their party is a bit bad because they say they don't believe in the power of social democracy, but why? take - about chance i read about questions like each of you and we are as you are if i had to say as of today what is probable then that would be lying if i said yes i told you before that she actually doesn't happen much if you you are getting close to being in the position of appointing the chancellor, you have made an important decision, namely to nominate olaf scholz, ok 5 but of course now it is a question of who actually writes which electoral program this is how olaf olaf scholz he writes an electoral program that suits him, with whom he can work without losing his credibility or some people just fish there if he himself can state his position, which are very rational and can also be found in the electoral program if I'm willing to judge things differently, but you have to look at that and what's the point if you look at these polls right now and as someone who is a politician.
I'm supposed to give an assessment if I'm lying or what would you think if the SPD is woefully weaker than the Greens in the polls right now it won't stay that way I'm convinced of that but right now that's what it should be like to act like if that weren't true and act like that was not going to be taken into account nobody would take it seriously and the cheapest way to get serious would be to take it seriously at the borders nobody survived me finally the question mr schröder you have been nicknamed ak- for many years choice why to fight tirelessly in the field can sometimes also harbor dangers if you look back on the past few decades you have a feeling you may have struggled at some point maybe fought fought not always initially struggled to climb the social ladder which, by the way, I tried through education and training, to achieve a story that has always bothered me and I think we have to. sen keep fighting so that people with a social background like mine can advance through education in society and if they do something if they have the opportunity and I want to keep fighting so that everything I have done has turned out to be natural despite all the mistakes that everyone makes, it turned out well in the end in such a way that i can say about myself, well, that could have gone worse in my life and right now i am a happy person again

gerhard

schröder thank you very much for the interview with taste

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