Michael Franzese on Father Dying, Sammy the Bull, Ori Spado, "Grim Reaper", Jordan (Full Interview

my advice, so during this pandemic, when I had time to think and I was at home and so many people were reaching out to me through social media and other ways I said, you know what? Maybe this is something I should really dedicate some of my energy and skills to, so I connected with some people who have been pushing me to do this over the years and we created a website. and now we create a community where people can become part of my team and we can give them advice and information that I receive personally. I get personally involved with a lot of people and try to answer their questions.

I give them some business advice and the experience I have and it's amazing how quickly it has grown. I mean, there are so many people out there and I guess during this pandemic that's how it is. They've been highlighted in their lives that they need advice in so many different areas so I'm dedicating my time and attention to what's really cool is this community that we created now, people are talking to each other and maybe they have struggles or challenges or problems. Similar. their life and now they're talking to each other and getting advice from each other and then I'll come once a week and we'll get personally involved and answer questions and it's been really productive, we've just started, it's only the last two or three weeks, but I'm very encouraged with what I see that's happened so far, that's great, that's great, so I like the concept of them joining your team.

Yes, no, listen to everything with me. I mean, I still have that old mafia mentality. a way for you to know that other people have members I have a team, you know that well and we'll go ahead and put the website in the description below. People who want to join can go ahead and click on it right now. In fact, we are in your previous

interview

s we put links to some of your books, in fact, we have moved a lot of books according to the statistics that I saw, yes, yes, I receive reports, so I don't look at all of them, but I receive reports from our editor and They are selling books They are happy They are happy Very good Very good Since our last

interview

I have interviewed many other mafia guys or mafia related guys, some of whom I think you have already seen.

I interviewed John. one light you knew each other we not only remember that I never met you in one light he was from a different era than mine I think I never spoke to him I never heard of him I don't know who he is he tried to contact me a couple of years ago and I think that in an email or something, or I wished him well and that was the extent of it, we haven't had any communication since. Okay, there are also cases where this interview has not aired yet. Frank Cullotta I never met Frank.

I know he's in Las Vegas. I know a little about his history. I mean, you know, when these guys turn around and form it, you read about it later. I hear about him and he's kind of a mainstay in Las Vegas. I know, but I don't know, I never had anything to do with him. Do you remember when the mafia started to take over? Well, he didn't take over, but he opened those casinos in Las Vegas. Yeah, okay, was the Columbo family involved in that? Grado, yeah, I mean, I had a relationship with people at the Dunes Hotel at the time and you know, a couple of the guys from Columbo were too and we were involved to a certain extent, it really wasn't our thing at all, but yeah, we were involved, I mean everyone.

I had a hand in I'm a Mars Shankar who owned the dunes at that time. I helped him get some funds through a syndicate for the hotel he was building in Atlantic City. Okay, and a lot of us are old enough to remember what that was like we went to Las Vegas and it's all corporate, you know, the wind, you can buy stocks in the wind and you know it's a very familiar environment these days. , it's very commercialized, it's really based on all the shows and everything but What was Las Vegas like back then, when the mafia ran these casinos?

It was much better. I can tell you that I didn't have all the corporate nonsense that I had to deal with with the Gaming Control Board, for some reason, it was a little more. relaxed than they are today, very strict, very strict and very open, and you know, I mean, I had a great time when I was in Las Vegas, you know, in the late '70s and early '80s, it was just a completely different city and I know you asked a lot of the old timers that were in Las Vegas at the time and they said it was a lot better when we had a lot to do with it, when the mafia had control of a lot of areas in Las Vegas, there were a lot of better, it was more fun, the shows were better, everything was better back then, now you know it's different, right, and you've always been involved in the whole gaming business, I mean, when you were active and to the point where You would deal with it and we've talked about this before you dealt with professional athletes.

You know these days you actually talk to professional athletes about the dangers of the game. Yes, and you know me personally. I'm not a player. I'll go play a couple of slot machines. and feel stupid and go back to my room, that's good. I always felt like I worked too hard for my money to go to a place where I know I'm going to lose it. You're absolutely right, but you said something interesting. In one of your interviews you said that all the guys you dealt with who were hardcore gamblers all told you they could quit at any time, but none of them exactly could.

Every bet would tell you the same thing when I wanted to quit, I can stop. No problem, what makes the game so addictive to people? Know? It's the emotion of winning. It's not even the money. It's the emotion of winning. Because if it was the money, they would stop when they got the money they needed. and they wanted it, they do it, it's the thrill of winning that does it. I'm convinced that you know, Michael Jordan said something very interesting recently in one of his interviews. They asked him if he had a gambling problem and he said no.

I said I have a competence problem and you know what, in Michaels case that's correct because the game doesn't affect him, the losses don't affect his lifestyle in any way that he can handle, it doesn't matter, it's okay, so No. He doesn't have a problem with gambling in that sense because it doesn't interfere with his life, it doesn't wreak havoc on him like most other players, but he does have a problem with competition, he raises the stakes and whatever he's competing in, knowing who has money on the line, so he agreed to a competition problem with everyone else, it's a gambling problem, you know, it's like who was he, the other basketball player, forget it, Oh, Charles Barkley, he said, I don't have a competition problem. game, he lost 10 million dollars at the table, but here you don't have a gambling problem you lose ten million dollars you have a gambling problem trust me on that but I have never talked to a player let me clarify that 95% of players Those I spoke to say they can quit smoking any time they want and that is not true.

I have not seen any of that group capable of resigning whenever they wanted. They are always in trouble. Well, the term you always hear in the movies is degenerate gambler. Exactly, it's a harsh term, but it's the truth. I can't stop it's addictive like anything else says as addictive as alcohol or drugs or anything else and and Vlad I've said this. I have seen more people addicted to gambling throughout my life and a half due to drugs or alcohol, that's it. bad, well I guess we are the different mafia and it has a certain advantage over traditional gambling is that the mafia would give you a line of credit, so you don't actually need the money to bet, you play with someone else's money person and then when you lose him, you have exactly bigger problems.

I'll tell you what happened in New York. I don't know if you remember when they brought off-track betting to New York. You know some of the police would come to us. They came up to me and I remember and they told me we're going to put them out of business now that we have off-track betting and you know, the mafia guys and everyone on the street loved to bet on the track, you know, that's big. In New York. York and I said really let's wait and see what happens, okay you go to off-track betting, you have to deposit your money, that's it, they don't give you credit, so what happens when you lose that money and you don't have any?

To be clear, go back to the bookie, they actually increased street gambling when off-track betting came out and by the way, you know the footnote says off-track betting went bust, They went bankrupt at some point. I don't understand how a gaming operation can go bankrupt, they should have put us in charge, we would have made a lot of money for them just fine, now you have companies like Draft King Draft Kings that are public companies, they actually buy shares, it's completely different. ball game now you have these online poker tournaments where you can bet whatever you want.

I know gambling is online now. Gambling is now an established legal thing that can be traced and you are not worried about someone just stealing all your money. Do you think that? That only increases the number of degenerate players there are, without a doubt, it is always access. You know, the more access you have, you know, the more people are going to bet. He just makes it easy for everyone and look, the game is kind of hard to control. It really is and look at all the clues, you know the NFL, I mean they tell you they don't want to see gambling in this sport, well that's not true, they don't want their players on their staff to participate in gambling, but they want people betting.

Why is it okay if you live in If you're a Patriots fan? Okay, that's your team, you're going to bet on your team, okay, but if you're a gambler and you have access to gambling, okay, you're going to bet on the 10 teams that make the 11 games, whatever. whatever, so they want you to have more. You are actually increasing the fan base when you allow betting on the sport, so all leagues really encourage gambling from people outside of the sport who want it. This will happen because it increases attendance, viewership and interest than everything else. I remember the movie casino.

Frank Rosenthal, also known as Lefty, got that casino because he was considered the best player here. I find an advantage and remember the beginning. They are like you. I know he knew how the hardwood reacted and he knew if the quarterback had a pregnant girlfriend and everything else. Did you know Frank at all? your point of view what kind of age someone like that could be when it comes to public sporting events the information is very useful that's why they always tell you you know players in the locker room what happens in a locker room stays there don't give out information who could be there injured who might be having an emotional problem they don't want that information to be published because it gives the player an advantage because remember this floor is never about winning or losing it's about the point difference what the distribution is about so that any information you have that can somehow affect a player that can then affect the point distribution is valuable and look at those handicappers, the guys who set the odds and the numbers in Las Vegas, these are well informed people, I mean , no Obviously they don't always get it right, but they get it right a good percentage of the time and really in the game that's all you need, you need to have the advantage a good percentage of the time and if you do it often enough, you will win.

On top of that, well, you'd see a story where you saw Michael Jordan bet Horace Grant $5.00 correctly. What happened was he was playing table tennis and they bet for $5.00 and obviously Michael won and he walked up to Horace and said where's my $5.00 and Horace was wearing a warm up suit so no. I have money on me. I have it in my room. Michael said for him to go get it, so Horace goes up to his room, okay, he comes back and hands Michael the $5 and Horace looks at him and says. $5

michael

, I mean what's the deal and

michael

holds it up and says this is my trophy, I beat you and that's what really makes me believe that with michael it's just the competition, I mean what does he need $5 for, ya You know, but is it the competition? so, but he's a hardcore gambler, don't let anyone fool you, he loves to bet and he's hardcore, you're going to waste anything, it's funny, you know what I was with Mike Tyson the other night, we went to dinner and we were talking, you know? training, he looks great the way he's in great shape and you know he's training for a fight, so I said to Mike, are you really going to do that MMA thing?

He was with two of his coaches and they said no, we don't want him to do it. that, but I said Mike, do you like that? He tells me Michael, I love watching - the bugs fight. I'll watch them fight all night. He said, I'm just saying, I mean everyone fight and I want to see everything. all night, you know, that's what he likes, you know, it's that competition, that adrenaline rush that he gets with Michael, yeah, you guys had a great interview, by the way, on your podcast, yeah, it's great, Mike, You know, you know, he's, he's just so real and so sincere, I mean, he has no filter, like you know, but I love him, I really do.great documentary.

I saw it and I have to believe the guy is telling the truth. You have to remember it in the past. The day I was around, you know, the NBA and I was doing a lot of sports at the time and there were a lot of rumors and there were a lot, not a lot, but there were some people who supposedly knew that. to say it had anything to do with Michael Jordan's play, I think that has been debunked. I don't think it's true right now, but it was certainly talked about at the time because Michael had that gambling problem and so on, but I mean, I would tend to believe what we're hearing now and look, these guys I guess not They would have no reason to do so.

I mean, it wasn't mafia related. I don't think I ever said that, but I did. I heard he's got something, man, what the game is at the time, but again, you know rumors always abound when it comes to someone like that, so I would have to say you know that was incorrect information at the time, just to put it in perspective. The guys were 18 at the same time, yeah, they drove around in the stolen Lexus for a week and the guy I interviewed ended up making a rap video at his house using Jordan's dad's jewelry, the watch and the championship ring that Jordan gave. him in a video that they found so these were not, you know, criminal masterminds who are orchestrating this retaliation for gambling debts.

These are two dumb teenagers who were living in trailer parks at the time they got caught killing someone who was extremely important and now you're serving a life sentence for it. Well, what you just said, you know, describing it, certainly gives me a lid. I mean, do you know what's mafia related? One month. Gangsters do dumb things sometimes, but not anything like that, so yeah. I know I'm sorry if I even inferred that at the time, but that's what I heard, I mean there were rumors going around and you know everything was heated at the time with Michael and people were just speculating, but I'm glad to hear that, well, I'm not happy to hear what happened, but I'm glad to hear it.

It had nothing to do with Michael because that would be a difficult thing to deal with in life. Well, look, I interviewed everyone around the murder of Tupac and other mythical figures like Jordan and for years the story was that Suge made him kill the government. killed him, the cop switched the bodies and so on, and I interviewed not only the people who were there with Tupac during the murder, but I also interviewed Ki Fede, who was in the car that killed Tupac, and they laid out all the facts. events and all the The events have always coincided with the guy who got hit in the casino coming back with a gun and killing him, which was the obvious choice, but to this day people don't believe that, no, it was really shocking.

Suge killed him, so you own him. Record Masters, even though there's a guy here who is three times the size of Tupac in a car, the car is sprayed randomly from front to back and you mean you hit someone when you're sitting in the car with them. It's ridiculous, yes it is, and just so you know, the lawyer should be my lawyer, you know, I've known him for 35 or 40 years and I don't think she had anything to do with it, well, you're talking about David Kenner , Yes ah. Yeah, okay, I've known David for a long time.

He's a great guy. I love him and I don't think she has anything to do with it. It's okay, because David Kenner was considered the mob's lawyer when he went to death row. You know, I don't know if he was a mafia lawyer, but we trusted him and he represented a lot of guys and to this day I mean, I talked to David yesterday, so he represents me in a legitimate signed agreement, okay, so yeah, He's a great guy, very good, I need an interview with David Kenner. I'm going to ask you a favor. David is fantastic.

You will love it. No, have you ever interviewed him? I haven't even gotten a contact. he is such a shadowy figure before yes i feel like he is a great guy i don't know if he will agree but i will talk to him about it how does he feel? I mean, he wasn't Shug's lawyer at the time. Where did Sugar get her 28 years? No I dont think so. Have you ever talked to him about how he feels about his former business partner being in prison for possibly the rest of his life? Not in depth or detail, no, but like me.

I said I've known David for a long time and as a result of that I don't think she has anything to do with Tupac, let's just leave it at that, yeah I completely agree Michael Franzese, thank you so much for joining us again. I'm glad if I can. I say one more thing because I think it's very pertinent through the things we're going through right now and I know I've gained tremendous followers as a result of these interviews, people I still associate with through social media. but you know, regarding what is happening now, I completely repeat that I condemn what would happen with that police officer and Floyd.

I think it was one hundred percent wrong. I think the culture of that Police Department and various police departments across the country needs to have a Okay, look at it, I think it's a cultural issue that starts at the top, you know really, and they have to change the attitude and if there is racism in these police departments, they have to do something to change that without a doubt and I support that. for these protesters and these protesters I believe that power is in numbers and I believe that when you have a complaint like this it is good to come together because people listen when they hear numbers, but I believe in peaceful protests, peaceful demonstrations, I believe that there is something more Behind these rioters, I think they are trying to cause chaos, there are outside groups that are agitating them.

I think there's enough evidence of that to back it up and you totally know that. I totally condemn those actions, but black lives matter to me, without a doubt. I have a lot of black friends and a lot of black friends in prison, we used to hang out together, play softball and racquetball together and I've had black friends my whole life and we always got along so I just hope something good comes out of it. For all of this, I truly do and my heart goes out to Floyd's family. Mine could also be a very sad time right now.

Hope

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y, by the time this part of the interview airs, things will have been resolved to some extent, meaning some laws are starting to apply. Things have changed really starting to move in a more positive direction, but I mean at this date Donald Trump is not addressing the underlying problem of what's happening, he's just underlined that he's just addressing the passengers, you know, he believes that quelling the riots will solve the problem. It's not yeah, I know, I'm glad, but look, you know, I know there's so many things, I mean, look at any time, anyone can try it.

I'm not saying you're with Trump, they are, but you know Obama had eight years to, you know, I have to do it. I'll tell you this: I met Obama, I took photos and we met on a beach in Hawaii. We really enjoyed, you know, a brief conversation I had with him and he was very excited about him becoming president. I said, wow, we have a black president. We know that racism exists. There's a guy in this country who can do a lot of things, well, go a long way to put an end to some of this racist nonsense that we had and it was a real disappointment to me.

I don't think he did that during his eight-year tenure. You know, and I'll give you an example, the city of Chicago, its town, okay, I don't think I've visited that town once every eight years, there are more murders in that town than in the entire country, why do you know, I felt Which, oh boy, I could have done. There, well, I talked to some of the black guys that are doing all these murders and I said, "Get together here and I know how I would have talked to them to actually lay down the law and stop all this nonsense, so you know." I can't put all the blame on Obama because this has been going on for a long time, but I think it was a missed opportunity with his presidency and that's why you know Biden to me is a joke.

I mean, this guy has been around. longer than the tree outside that is a hundred years old and what has he done, do you know if he thinks he is going to come in now if he is eight years as vice president and is going to solve everything is nonsense this is going to take the entire country it is going to need dialogue it's going to take work it's going to need counseling no one person can handle this but you know, I hope we get it under control because it's a horrible thing that's happening, that's what it is and hope

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y it gets better, I mean like you said racism will always be there , but hopefully it will improve and some laws will be passed.

That's where we hope that some of the police officers really start to feel the ramifications of these types of murders and this type of abuse. their power they should do it and I will tell you that I think they need to charge the four police officers. You can't sit still and watch this for nine minutes and do nothing about it. Blood and I think everyone is responsible. everyone needs to be held accountable, yeah, and you know I'm going to end this, the whole concept of policing is generally not something that the best of the best aspire to like when you hear like a valedictorian in a high school say hello, as soon as I graduate I'm going to become a police officer when you see the best and the brightest say I'm going to join the police force you never hear some people say the FBI or the CIA or something you know about it or some people want to be a district attorney or a judge or something like that, but when you see the best and the brightest aspire to be a cop, you never hear that, so you have this group of people who are some underachievers become this huge group of people who have guns and generally don't have ramifications for the violent actions they take against the people they are supposed to protect, so I don't know if you look at the underlying things where you might actually attract better people to these organizations.

I think you'll see a change over time. It is very possible that you will see a change. I mean, you know, I can't really talk about that, but I'll tell you one exception. My daughter, okay, my daughter Amanda, who is a college student. graduate graduated from San Diego State she was going to be a criminal justice attorney that was her wish as she wakes up one morning she says dad I want to join the police department and I was stunned I said what she said yes I want to do something good she said Really I feel like that's where I can do the most good, very bright, educated young lady and she was really committed, committed to doing it.

The problem was the Santa Monica Police Department, Newport Beach, there's a waiting list, you know, you couldn't get in, otherwise she might I'll be wearing that badge today, but I hope there's a lot more people like her to hang out with. We really committed. They think they can do some good in the community, so look, you know, I know I know a lot of good police officers and I know a lot of them. cops that I would rather not associate with, so it's like everything else is good and bad in anything, but again it starts at the top the culture, like I heard the mayor of Minneapolis say he knew there was racism in the police department. for a long time, well, you're the mayor, you're in charge of that, why didn't you do something to change the culture of that department?

This is where this whole incident started, why didn't he immediately come in and say hello? We have to make some changes. Look for a police chief who is sensitive to this and is going to make some changes if he knows this is spreading throughout his department. I heard that I was stunned. It's a little late for him to say. that should have been said when he became mayor, okay, and I don't want to lose the irony of what you just said, okay, the mix you want to tell me is that the daughter of a captain of the Colombo crime family who stole hundreds of million dollars so the government is now going to be a police well, now it's not, I mean, thank God, now she has two children and she had to get out of that, but she was really committed, she went through chaining, she did everything she I mean and she scored very, very high and I had some friends at the Beverly Hills Police Department who were actually sponsoring her because she scored high, she did great, but there was a long waiting list and Then she got married, got pregnant, had my grandchildren, so it didn't happen, but it did, and the irony is I mean I would talk to my wife and say, do you believe this?

Our people are really going to believe this. I told her I don't know if she will arrest me if I do something wrong. I said she's so committed, so she could have done it. I tell you that's her, you know, that's her mentality, you know, I have to tell you that all my children are very law-abiding, my wife wouldn't tolerate me doing anything wrong. At this point she's had enough of that, you know, she tells me straight, yeah, you better do the right thing because I'm not going to go through any more nonsense and I'm fine, oh man, okay, let's get it over with.

That's it, Michael. Franzese thank you very much, always a pleasure, ok Clive, thank you, make the most of it next time, stay safe, yes sir, you too, ok man.