Michael Franzese | Cambridge Union

foreigner good evening everyone welcome to Cambridge Union thank you very much for coming, we are very lucky tonight to have Michael Franzis, former mafia boss turned writer, businessman, speaker, born again Christian and many things to stand for we are very lucky. Here, he'll give a short speech and then we'll have some time for your questions, but without further ado, Ado Michael, well, thank you very much. I have to say that this is my third visit to the UK. here about three weeks ago and I was on a speaking tour mainly to some churches and some other things and it's been a great time, I really love this country, the people have always been tremendous to me and I hope to visit quite a bit more Jonas and his team They have been excellent, today we have a view of the city and the university is incredible.

We don't have anything like this in the United States, regardless of what people may say, Ivy League schools are nice, but this is really surprising. I just want to thank you. Actually, when I got the call to come here, at first I thought it was a joke. I said, "Oh, someone is playing this prank on me," but I really consider it a privilege and an honor to be here. very excited, looking forward to answering your questions and people, you can ask me whatever you want, they have asked me everything under the sun, you are not going to offend me and if I don't answer, I know how to take the fifth is the correct one, hey, I have done it many times in my life, so we're okay, but you know, just to give you a little context, I'll keep it very brief because I enjoy Q&As more than anything.

In addition to listening to me talk all the time, I'll give you a little background about myself and then we can continue from there. I was born in Brooklyn, New York, and there were five La Casa Nostra families of the mafia in that area and in fact the mafia does not exist in the United States it exists in Italy in the United States it is called La Casa Nostra means this ours there are similar organizations but if you are a member of the mafia in Italy you are not automatically made in the United States and vice versa, when people from the mafia came, we respected them, we were obviously courteous to them, but we did not share our secrets because they are two separate organizations.

My father was the deputy head of the Colombo family, one of the five. Very powerful position of the families that existed in the 60s in that life, you have a boss, a deputy boss or a Kappa regime or a Captain and a soldier. Many of you have seen The Godfather. I'm sure there is a position called consolieri. Robert Duvall played that role. It's brilliant, I might add, but it was fictional in The Godfather because to be a sworn member of that life and take the oath, and you do, your father must be Italian. Mom may be of another ancestry.

Your father must be Italian. and my father had a very high profile, he was always under investigation. I'm sure I grew up very differently than all of you here. I grew up really hating the police, I hated the government, I hated law enforcement and really not because I was taught that way, but because because of what I witnessed in my life, I love my dad, I idolized him a lot and the police always I was behind him and I saw them as the enemy, so I grew up under that kind of atmosphere. I originally went to school to be a Doctor, my dad didn't want me to be on the streets, he wanted me to get an education.

He got into real trouble in the '60s. He was charged several times in both the state and federal court systems and was eventually convicted of masterminding a series of nationwide bank robberies and was sentenced to 50 years in prison and went to serve his conviction in 1970 and I was a medical student at the time. I was devastated when my father walked in. I assumed he was 50 years old. years when he entered he was 50 years old. Besides that, he would never get out of prison alive, apart from that, my father is 100 years old, he has served 38 years in prison since 1970 and now he is in prison and will be the next one out. month actually in the month of June, so it's going to be an exciting time for us and I visited him in Leavenworth and at that time he wanted me to try to help him stop going to school and become a member of his life and so, like I was 22 years old, for about a year and a half I was in a kind of commitment period where I had to do anything and everything I was told to do to prove that I was worthy of becoming a member of that life and in 1975, actually, Halloween Night at um the Estates.

I took an oath and became a sworn member of the Colombo family and you enter life as a soldier. I was motivated to do two things. I wanted to get my father out. of prison. I ended up taking it out after 10 years. I got him out on parole, but then he raped and kept coming in and I wanted to make money and that life, my father said if you make money, it translates into power, not much different. In the real world I was lucky. I knew how to use that life to benefit myself in business and made a very significant amount of money.

In 1980 I was appointed as a partner or Captain, which is a very powerful position and from 1980 until about 95 I operated in that capacity uh in 1984. Among many things that I was doing, I was making films. I had a production company in Los Angeles and I was filming a movie that Smokey Robinson had brought me a script for. He and I were friends at the time and on that film we brought dancers from Los Angeles and the cast from Los Angeles to work on the film, we filmed it in Florida and it was during that filming that I met a young woman who was a girl of faith. and now she's my wife of 31 years and she's here somewhere I don't know where she is I think she's here anyway um uh it was that woman that gave me the motivation to really try to make a break from that life and I'm sure that you will ask questions about that so I won't go into that and as part of this, I was charged five times.

I went to trial five times in the states for various crimes, two federal racketeering cases, one brought by Rudy. Giuliani and uh and tried to break away from that life. In fact, I pleaded guilty in an extortion case. I received a sentence of 10 years in prison. 15 million dollars in restitution. Five million in confiscation of my assets. I married Camille and went to make my During that time it became public that I was moving away from that life. I had many problems throughout my life. My father basically disowned me and we had a lot of problems. I spent almost eight years in prison during that time and I came.

When I got out of prison I had no idea what I was going to do and I ended up becoming a speaker. Speaking at various churches. I work a lot with universities. I have visited over 300 colleges over the past 20 years and talk to student athletes about gambling and the relationships they have. maintain and so on. I have written four books. They're making a movie about my life. Now they have made many documentaries about me. Some of them you may have seen. I'm all over YouTube so you can find a There's a lot about me and you know, I became a person of faith and my life has changed.

I consider myself probably the most blessed and luckiest person I will ever talk to in this room and the reason I say this is because they let me. It's up to me to do what I wanted to do in my life and follow the path I was originally on. I need to be dead or in prison for the rest of my life and honestly you spent 20 years on the streets and that's what you earn for yourself and I'm very blessed, very lucky to be here today so having said that I'm done and you could shoot, thank you very much, Michael, that was, that was really interesting.

I want the first half of My questions to be a little bit more about your life before prison and then I'll move on to your life after. My first question is if you can tell us how you earned that money. What did you do well? Like I said, you know? It's funny, I used to think I spoke English until I came here and realized I speak a different language, but I hope everyone understands me. You know, I was lucky because I knew how to use that life. There are benefits in that life that help you. He was successful in business and had many legitimate businesses.

He had two car dealerships. He had several restaurants in which he participated. I had a big leasing company and then, you know, I guess I was lucky because I only had one head. for business, I don't know how I developed it or anything, but it's something that came naturally to me and, you know, I wrote a book called I'll Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse, it's not very original, but I didn't choose the title. The editors chose the title, but what I was able to do in that book is say that business is business and if you have an idea if you are doing it legally or illegally if you follow the same principles. you will probably be successful, the problem with doing it illegally is that after your success you will end up in prison like I did, so you don't want to do that, but you know, you know, if you have a head to In business you just develop certain things and you become successful, Do you regret everything you did during that time?

You know, I regret it. I mean, you can't spend 20 years on the street and do the things I did and get involved and see. the things that I saw uh without regret and I have some, I wish there were things that I could go back and change, but obviously I can't, but they get easier as you get older and you realize that we can't. change the things we can only do better in our life and try to live our lives the right way and I hope I was able to do that. Yes, can you tell me more about the day you became a made man?

Yeah, when you, uh, I was in kind of a commitment period for about a year and a half where I had to do anything and everything that I was told to do to prove that I was worthy and it could have been something very menial. There is a lot of discipline in that life. respect of course respect a lot of authority if you had a meeting at eight and you weren't there at 7 30 you were late you could never be late in that life and a lot of things like that and unfortunately you know I'm going to be very honest with all of you here tonight : Life is sometimes very violent and if you are part of life you are part of the violence and there is no escape and if someone tells you otherwise, or it is not. be honest with you or they were not members of that life, so for about 18 months I was in a kind of commitment period where I had to do all this to prove that I was worthy and the night that you are going to be worthy. fact and that's the expression we use it's a very safe night they don't tell you in advance you get a phone call and they tell you where we're filming be in a certain location so this turned out to be uh for me it was Halloween night 1975, when They called me with five other gentlemen and we all made fools of ourselves.

I took that oath very seriously back then. I take it very seriously today, although I no longer consider myself a member of the life you enter. in life you don't sign a contract there is no retirement age you know they what I know about life is in my heart my mind is not easily forgotten and they say that when you leave that life or you leave a coffin or you join the government and you enter into Him witness protection program cooperated, obviously, I didn't do either, so it was very serious, it was something I was very proud of at the time.

I had a very idealistic view of that life and I was young and I didn't realize that you don't. I don't realize until you understand what it's really about because it's a secret life and, you know, I was that night, you know, I was very inspired, I was very happy, I felt good about it and that started to change. us as time has gone on and to what extent the kinds of activities that you were involved in still happen today, well, you know, life has weakened tremendously. I always consider the golden years of the La Kosen Austra mafia in the United States to be between the '50s and '80s, the mid-'80s is when law enforcement really started cracking down on that life and locked up a lot of people. and they did, they devastated that life, but it still exists and it won't go away in my lifetime, those guys are very clever, it's changed a little bit, but I think it will continue as long as I can wait for it.

I don't see it going away and did you have ties to the Russian Italian mafia? mafia, you know, Cambridge Mafia was there, there was some kind of link between them or it was quite isolated. I'm not sure about the Cambridge market. I haven't heard that, but yes, we had ties with Italians in Italy. and certainly with the Russian mafia I had Russian partners for many years we were in the gasoline business together. I had devised the plan to defraud the government with taxes on every gallon of gasoline and the Russians were my partners in Brooklyn and they were the best partners I ever had by the way, those guys were great, they were very smart, they weren't afraid of our system of criminal justice in the United States, so it was great to work with them.

Some of them had served time in a Russian prison, they said. Oh, Michael, spending time in your prison is like you're on vacation. I said great, so, yeah, we had a great relationship for several years. Wow, and I was moving towards how did you leave, how could you leave? Do you know later? prison without I guess they followed you to try to get you to rejoin and be without being an informant good, I refused, you know, the government put a lot of pressure on me to become a witness and I had a lot of problems, uh, because I resistedthat.

In many ways I tried to make the government believe that I agreed with them, but in the end I really didn't and that caused me to go back to prison after being released on parole. They were mad at me, but I didn't do it. ask permission to leave because I wouldn't have gotten it. They probably would have killed me on the spot. I just left, you know? I pleaded guilty, and as part of my plan, I would serve a few years in prison when I got out. On parole you are not allowed to associate with criminals or anyone in organized crime, so I would use that as an excuse.

I moved to the west coast away from New York and thought maybe after a few years they would forget about me. It happened when I left a contract in my life, my father basically betrayed me in many ways because he agreed and we had a lot of problems for several years and unfortunately what I tell people is that I outlived everyone I know. In that life they are dead or in prison for the rest of their lives, everyone I was with and I mean everyone, so I've been very lucky. I think my faith has a lot to do with it and, you know, I always say that. um, you know you can't be stupid, I can't go back to Brooklyn, say, hey guys, I want to go back to the neighborhood.

It wouldn't last long, but you know God doesn't tell you to be stupid, you have to do it. use your head so I've been very lucky and I don't live in fear and you know as part of that life I saw a lot of things so the fear is gone and I hope it continues what's the worst? Have you ever seen oh boy? Well, listen, it's like I'm saying that violence is part of that life and unfortunately I've seen my share. I have seen people murdered. Let me be honest with you and it's hard to accept, yeah.

It's never easy wow, uh, if I said that looking back now, do you ever have faith that you've found anything since then? Do you feel more guilty about the things you did or do you just say that you know they are in the past? and you know I did them right, it's not a matter of feeling more guilty, I mean, I still regret it, but you know the Christian faith, um and I don't wear my faith on my sleeve, you know, I'm not a Holy Roller, so to speak. , but my faith is strong because my beliefs are strong and my beliefs are based for me, they are based on evidence and experience and you know, the foundation of our Christian faith is to believe that we are forgiven and um and that's what we have to believe. , we can't do it again, we can't go back and do things again, so we have to believe in our faith that we really are forgiven if we are sincere, you know, like anyone can. say Hey, you know I'm sorry for what I did, but I didn't mean it and I always say this.

I was pretty good on the street. I can probably fool a lot of your eyes here into thinking I'm a great guy and I can go out and be the complete opposite, but you can't fool God. I mean, he knows our hearts, so I'm just kidding myself if I do that and, as a result, I think that, uh, that I've been forgiven. Your faith made you see other bosses in a different way. Are they helpless, helpless and pathetic or are they evil and do you know horrible men? How do you see them now that you? Well, I've learned not to judge.

Anyone, um, I don't judge people because at one point I was, I could probably be considered the worst in the room and God has changed my life in so many ways, so I don't judge anyone. I might have my own opinions. but I don't think anyone is so bad that their life can't be transformed and I use myself as an example, so again, that transformation is from the inside out, you know, it hasn't changed, the change can be temporary. , the transformation is usually permanent and can happen to anyone. I have people from that past life who tried to contact you again.

You know, or everyone really left. Oh yeah, no, no people have tried to contact me. A lot of them said you know we're not making money. We need you back and you know it, um, but it's not at all, it's not even an option or a thought, or I don't find any attraction in that, right, and one last thing before we open it, do you know John Gotti, the crime? I guess so. I knew John very well, what he was like socially, he was great, we had a lot of fun, you know, business, he was an absolute nightmare, I mean, you couldn't do business with him, he had a tremendous ego, he didn't really understand business and I.

I had some confrontations with him in that sense because I was very active and so was he, but he was very difficult to deal with. I'm still close to his family. I associate it. You know, we talked mainly to his wife and daughters. He wasn't close to his youngest son, John Jr, but John was fine, he respected him because he didn't want to be anything more than a gangster, he didn't beat around the bush about it, they didn't make any mistakes, he was who he was. he. and that was it and if there were a lot of connections between the families, then yes, there was a lot of connection between the five families.

I mean, in New York you have to understand, you know, we bump into each other all the time and we constantly bump into each other, so we had a lot of business deals, a lot of relationships. I got along very well with the heads of the other families, so we are constantly in contact. Thank you so much. I'm going to open up to you. so if you have a question raise your hand and I'll pick you, anyone, yeah, in the back, back there, thank you for your talk, it's been great to hear everything you've said, what you talked about. um earlier about how uh when you turned your back on that life um your relationship with uh your father turned his back on you um how your relationship with him developed since I mean, obviously you said he's getting out of prison next month um, have you back to how things were? um, has he forgiven you, have you forgiven him, how has that changed over the years?

The government did not play fair with me and during the time I was away they put my name on the witness list for many trials that were going on in New York and people thought I was going to become a witness and testify and start to lock up my friends, that wasn't true and when it became clear that that wasn't going to happen and that took a long time, my dad and I hadn't spoken for 10 years and then he got out on parole. and he sent me to call and he told me I want to see you and I said ok and he wanted to meet me in a certain place and I refused I told him I will see you at your house because I honestly didn't trust my dad because If my dad is anything, he is a soldier in every way, I mean, this is his life, so I met him at his house at 5:30 in the morning and we had a good discussion and we fixed it at 5:30 in the morning.

At that time he denied the fact that he betrayed me, but I know it was true. I had an incident where I found out what he did and it was very disturbing to me. I still love my dad because I know I understand his mentality. I know he loves. It's not the same but my wife will tell you I have worked hard to try to get him out of prison I have always supported him because he was a very good father when I was a child unfortunately my younger brother who had a drug problem, his whole life ended up becoming a informant.

He is now in the witness protection program and testified against my father in a case that put him back in prison. So, you know, what I try to tell people is that this life is an evil life and I consider it evil I won't call the boy evil because I always loved them but life is evil because I don't know any family of any member of that life, including mine, not my wife nor my children, praise God, but my mother father. brothers sisters that has not been totally destroyed and that is true for every member of every family of every member that I know and any life that does that is evil and, you know, our entire family was really destroyed basically because of our participation in that life and when my father returns home I will be happy.

I mean, I hope he can enjoy it a little. He has been through very difficult times over the last 50 years, but he will never be exactly the same at the top, yes, absolutely. No, no, they're one thing that got me in Godfather Three, if any of you saw that, is that Talia Shire played an active role in the decision making. That doesn't happen. There were no women in that life. We have always tried to keep Women out of that life, my wife will tell you that to this very moment, and we have known each other for 32 years.

I think we're married. 31. I have never had an argument with my wife about my previous life and it's just not up to me to have that conversation, so women don't play a role in that and that's really for their benefit, they shouldn't, you know, I'll be honest with you, do you know that I made a very significant amount of money and was very successful in business and people always consider me a business genius and I don't consider myself, I mean, there are a lot of people who are much smarter than me in business, but I think I had two talents.

That worked really well for me, number one. I was able to recognize a lot of things and I was able to recognize what was good and those that I shouldn't bother with and that at that time I was able to get the right people. do the right work and I was able to motivate them to do the work they were supposed to do and many times they thought I was smarter than them, but I really wasn't. I just made them believe that I was smarter than them, you know, there's an old saying, sometimes you can be the smartest person in the room and you don't want anyone to know it and sometimes you're the dumbest person in the room. and you don't want to let anyone know.

Somebody knows, but that was really my talent. I was able to get people to work for me and work hard and, you know, figure out what was a good business. My kind of motto was do what you do best and delegate the Rest and that has always worked for me. The other thing I'll tell you is very, very important when you get into a business. You have to have a plan. You have to have a plan. You have to know what the beginning, the middle and the end are, and what it is. you want to try to establish that that might change down the road because circumstances change and the economy changes, but you have to have a plan in business and you have to try to stick to it as best you can, Mr.

Foreign Government, when maybe you could have stopped the crimes. In the future, why did I choose not to cooperate? Well, you know, there are a couple of things, number one, I don't consider myself a law enforcement person, that's not my job, fighting crime, number one, number two, I don't think so. It is a noble thing to be involved in a crime and save yourself from betraying the people you were involved with and I have been through five criminal trials of my own and four of my parents and many others. I have never seen an informant, including my own brother get on the witness stand put his hand on the Bible swear to tell the truth and then lie through his teeth because they are saving themselves and if he really feels the moral responsibility to fight crime then become a law enforcement officer or actually fight crime if you are doing it to save your own skin.

I don't see anything noble in that and I refuse to do it and that's my position now and I have a lot of friends in law enforcement now you know I've really done it. I finally found out that they were the good guys when we were the bad guys and I have many friends in law enforcement all over the United States and I have many last June. I spoke at the Southern California gang conference where there were 1,700,100 law enforcement officers from all over the country because I do a lot with these gang members to try to help them and, you know, they're all friends, so I support law enforcement. that way.

I will give you knowledge. I will import knowledge, but no. I don't think it's my responsibility to imprison people and betray people I was once friends with. Do you have any opinion about your current president? Oh, I promise, I wouldn't become political. Donald Trump I still am. I tend to be quite conservative in my opinions and I want to give it a chance. I mean, he said all the right things. I think he has understood many things. I know people who know. Donald, very good, part of his campaign, some of the people who were in his campaign were friends of mine.

I really think he wants to do something and really help America and I just hope he gets the opportunity to do that. I shudder. Some of the things he said in his tweets bother me a lot and some of the things he says you would say Donald stays silent, but I think we needed a change in America. I really did and I'm rooting for it. him because I believe that what he does in the United States not only impacts my children and grandchildren but the entire world and that is why I will support him until, unless he does something that I can no longer do, I hope that does not happen, yes.

How did you come to know that God is real? I'm sorry, how did you come to know that God is real to you? How did I know who God was? How did God become real to me? You know, me, me. I accepted Christ, uh really as a result of my wife's faith and my mother-in-law's faith, who was my mother-in-law, she was the most godly woman I've ever met in my life. I mean, my mother-in-law had a prayer book. you meet her for two minutes your name goes in her prayer book and she would even have to know your name.

I mean, if she saw you and you needed prayer, the guy on the corner with one shoe would go into a prayer book and uh, her faith was very real to her. My wife's faith was very real when I met them. I thought it was nonsense. I didn't believe it at all. But in reality it came to lightwhat happened to me I spent five years in prison. and I was raped and I came back for three years and um, the night I came back was probably not probably definitely the worst night of my life it was the only night I experienced hopelessness and I can tell you this.

I have experienced all of life's emotions, from ecstasy to pain and everything in between. I have lived a full life by far. The worst emotion you can experience is hopelessness and I felt like my world had ended I was 39 years old I thought I was going to lose my wife my children I thought I would never get out of prison again and that night you can call me a coward or weak or whatever because it really applied. I wanted to close my eyes and not wake up, it was too painful to think about my future and I was in the hole of a six by eight cell and a prison guard was walking alone and he said To me, Francis, you're okay, you don't look good. and I told him: stay away from me.

I chased him. I didn't want to see it. He returned about a minute later and pushed the Bible through the slot in the door and honestly. I picked up the Bible and slammed it against the wall. I was so upset I didn't want to hear about God and about a minute later I picked her up because I was like, hey, it's just me and God in this cell that I believed in. God, but I had no relationship with him and I spent three years in cell 24 7 of the six-by-eight hole. Just God and me and that's very difficult, you know, I realized during that time that we were not meant to be solitary creatures. they were meant to be social and I saw a lot of people in that situation who didn't do well and it was during that time that I mean, if you look at my Bible in prison, there are more of my notes in there than there are scriptures, I absorbed them.

I asked my wife to send me books on all religions and I studied. I had nothing but free time and I just walked out of there believing that the Bible was the word of God and that Jesus was my savior and, um, when I walked out. prison, I can honestly say over the last 20 years that he has become much more real to me, not only in my own experiences but in what I have seen in others and as a result of that my faith is very strong and I try to Di This, you know, I'm not carrying the Bible around.

I'm a pretty normal guy in a lot of ways, well, I guess not, in a lot of ways, what I did before was normal, but you know, it's just that my faith is very strong and based on. evidence, you know, I'm a guy who doesn't take things literally. I'm a very cynical guy, you grow up on the streets, you question everything, and for me, my faith is based on evidence and experience, and I believe. I do it with all my heart, so if I make a mistake, what do I have to lose? I mean, when you're dead, you're dead anyway, so you didn't lose anything.

I lived my life, I think the way I'm supposed to. now I've been extremely blessed with a great family and and um and things that I never thought I would do in my life and for some reason um what I have to say has an impact on people and I think we've motivated a lot of people. I'm really there. My mission in life now is to encourage people that if my life could be transformed and changed, then it could certainly happen to anyone and I put a lot of time into it. time for our young people because in the United States I don't know what it's like here, but I'm actually meeting members of Parliament tomorrow because they heard me speak here a few weeks ago and they want to know if I can help them with the gang.

The situation and the youth problem that exists in some of its cities, much of what I do in the United States, we are losing many young people there and for me I believe that the root of the problem is the breakdown of the family of these young people. people just don't have the right influence on their lives and it's very difficult in a world where we have so many distractions at our fingertips. I mean, you have more distractions at your fingertips, more negative influences than I had growing up and creating. that as adults we create the environment that you live in today and we have the responsibility to help our young people, that is why I try to encourage them and lead them on the right path and I feel that that is my purpose in life. now hi, hi, I was wondering how you maintain your empathy when I mean, how did you maintain your empathy when you were aware of some pretty awful things like you suggested or felt like you lost it and then had to get it back, how do you like to reason morally to yourself? what you're seeing and survive emotionally?

Well, empathy towards the victim, the person who might be losing their life, or well, you know, I can honestly say, um, that. I did things in that life that I wasn't comfortable with, but I did them anyway, so there's no excuse and I take full responsibility for it. But you have to understand something when we come into that life and take that oath. We are told that if we violate the oath we can pay for it with our lives and it is your best friend who could be called to fulfill it because, that is how life is, it comes before anything and that is why, when we do it, we imagine it. , hey, you know, the playing field is level, we have to follow the rules, if we don't understand the consequences and that's just how things are and it's not a good mentality because whenever you justify evil for any reason it's obviously wrong, but I had a very idealistic view of that life, so I was telling someone today one of the things I regret is that a very dear friend of mine, very, very close, is like a brother to me. he was murdered and I couldn't save him and it's something I deeply regret, so I guess when you go through that you feel empathy for it, you know, even though it violates your conscience, you still feel empathy for it.

That and I think about it a lot, my wife will tell you, you know, she says that I have nightmares at night, sometimes I'm fighting in my sleep, now I don't realize it, but I think it's those moments when things come out in you and sometime it will go away, no. I know, it's just there, uh, yeah, in the back, there, um, since so much has happened, how has faith helped you find forgiveness for yourself and also for others? Thanks, well, my faith is at stake. like I said, an important role in my life, you know, it's changed my life, it's transformed me because look, when you spend 20 years on the street and you come across some of the things that I found, you just can't.

Go through life like everything is great and it's your faith that allows you to believe that you can be forgiven for those things and that you can go on and lead a productive life and look, as they say, the proof is in the pudding I've been in. out of that life for 20 years and I consider myself extremely lucky, very blessed, I don't deserve it, I didn't earn it at the time Tom, I earned just the opposite, but for some reason things are going pretty well for me now, that could change I know what we will see we live in the real world you become a Christian doesn't mean that life becomes the Garden of Eden you know that things can still happen and you know that old question oh well why?

Bad things happen to good people, well, that's life, you know, I always say this, you know, God never promised us heaven on Earth, he promised us heaven in heaven, but he did promise that he will have our back in everything. moment and I have done it. I've experienced that a lot, I mean, we've had a tremendous amount of struggles and for some reason we just keep getting through them and we get through them by trying to do the right thing, not the wrong thing, so my faith has played a big role. tremendous role in my life and um like I said I have nothing to lose because if for some reason I'm wrong and I don't believe it but if I'm okay when I die I'm dead anyway so at least I made the best of my life because I had a incredible view of a loving and merciful God and that has worked for me and works for many others Michael, thanks for your talk.

You mentioned that your brother became a government informant and reported. about your father, how do you see your brother? um like more moral or less moral than you, that you didn't inform yourself, and how your father sees it now, that's a great question, um, my father was obviously devastated by that, my dad, he really loves his children despite that it led us astray in many ways. I think he really loved his children, so he was devastated that his son, his youngest son, did something because my dad, I think anyway, my dad was very good to me. brother.

I will say this. I love my brother and I don't agree with what he did because he did it to save himself and I always say this my brother one of the worst qualities or characteristics you can have in life is being selfish my brother since When I was a child, I never knew He went out of his way for no one, he was always very, very selfish and as a result, when push came to shove and he had to save himself, he chose to save himself instead of hurting my father, um, I still love him. he um, I don't know if I'll ever see him again because he's on the show, maybe we'll get up, you know, we'll have a relationship again at some point, I certainly forgive him, but I don't agree with him, you know, and like I said, I don't consider what he did to be Noble in any way.

I don't consider it moral in any way. I sat in court when he swore to tell the truth and lie, I have seen it very often and it was very very disturbing for me so yes I feel very bad for what he has done thank you yes how difficult it is to trust in people, how difficult it was then and how easy it is. Now you know, I seem to be quite trusting. I mean, I think my wife is a lot more perceptive than I am. You know, I give people their space. You start the right way and you have to go down from there.

I've been hurt by that, it's just my nature, you know, I like to give people some leeway and leverage and let them prove themselves right or wrong, but I'm always cautious, you know, it's always like a cautious trust. and I think life, you know, had a lot to do with it now, when I was in that life, it was different, you know, I was always very cautious of anyone around me and because you have to be because, like I said, you know someone. One of the horrors of that life is that maybe you've done something wrong, you don't really know, your best friend walks you into the room and you don't come out again, and that's a nightmare to say the least, so unfortunately, He I've seen that in my life and as a result of that you become a little suspicious, but I don't have to face that in this life it's not a matter of life and death when I trust someone, you know, for anything else. reason, yes, things, well, I was, uh, we're quite different, yes, but me, my wife and I prove that opposites attract because we've been together for a long time, we don't agree on almost anything, do I have right, baby?

But somehow it worked. Um, I was filming a movie in South Florida and she was one of the dancers they brought in and while I was dancing, one day I was sitting by the pool, I threw a party for everyone, we had just finished pre-production and we were going to be a director. photography on a Monday, it was a Sunday afternoon, a beautiful day in Florida, so I had a party for the whole crew and all the actors and actresses and I was sitting by the pool and all of a sudden she came out of the water and I saw her . and it was like a Pepsi commercial, everything was in slow motion and I asked the choreographer who was sitting next to me.

I told him Jeff is one of your dancers and he said yes. I told him to bring it. I want to know her, so she comes from her. I introduced myself and said listen, I'm your producer, I want to get to know you better, let me take you to lunch, then she says great, so I told her a time and a place, I go and I'm there for 45 minutes. She stood me up, she never showed up, so I saw her on set and she was 20 at the time and I said, hey, we were on a date, you know what happened, he didn't show up and you know what got me is her.

She didn't make an excuse, she just looked at me like she really hoped it would work out and uh, so I said well, were you dancing rehearsing? She was rehearsing. I said, can we try again? She said, sure, no problem, we said another time in a place where she stood me up again now we have a big disagreement here because she did this to me five times and she usually rolls her eyes, so don't overdo it, no It was five times. Hello guys, we know when they stood us up, believe me. It was five times right and then one night she, we had a cast meeting and she walked out of the meeting and she was upset because she was with her friend, something was wrong.

I said, hey, this is cool. I said I have to fire someone. get rid of someone, I'm going to be her hero, right, and we started talking from that moment and we started hanging out on set and then she took me home to meet her mother, which was another experience, but um 31 years. Later here we are, so somehow it worked out, uh, but again, we don't agree on almost anything and every time I ask him, I'm very surprised every time I ask him something, his first reaction is no, I don't . I want you to do that I want you to do it right I said I'm going to Cambridge Hey, that's great, yeah, I said Okay, let's do that, but, yeah, somehow, I always say this honestly, people, uh, I.

I'm not really the story here and she is my wife, she is very humble, she doesn't like the press or anything like that and she always said that my job is to take care of the children and support you in prayer, but I really am not the story here, I mean, she's the story, I mean, I brought so much baggage into her life that she had no idea that she saw the Godfather once she didn't know anything about the mafia, she didn't even know what it really was. And you know she's been through a lot and she'll tell you everything she loves.

I think so.It happened, you know someone from the inside would come to us, so what I mean is we infiltrated every fabric of society, we just had a way to get around people, um, I, I can. I don't explain it, that's how it was. You know, politically we rub shoulders with a lot of people. We were you know, at the highest levels of corporate America, with celebrities we always dealt with, you know, I had a lot of legitimate companies, so it wasn't always other members of my life that were involved with me and you know, you take some of the others. other organized crime groups, if you take away their drugs, they collapse, they are all built around drugs now we were not allowed to get involved in drugs, they told us directly that we deal with drugs, we die, we pay for it with your life.

So, honestly, my wife will tell you that she hates everything to do with drugs. I had a sister who died of a drug overdose. My brother was a drug addict for 25 years and I feel like that caused so many problems. My wife will tell you what. that guy put us through was just amazing and that's why we didn't get involved in drugs in any way and I wouldn't do it to this day, I mean I wouldn't get involved in any way but I think that's why we were so successful and you know , the government absolutely feared us and those who didn't fear us generally went with us and we made them win.

I can't tell you how many political functions I attended and we were always donating to them for one reason or another we were buying them, but as it was, yeah, in the back, what's it like being in the mafia day to day, what do you do, How do you feel? Are you constantly afraid? Are you always planning? What is it? Is it really like in the movies where everyone laughs and eats spaghetti or is it actually a lot, what is it really like to be there? Well, you know, when I became a couple of you guys, Captain, I spent so much time.

In my day I had a lot of men around me, I had a big team, I had 300 guys under me and they were always getting into trouble one way or another and I had to settle disputes for them all the time. He had many meetings. We called it with Gotti and other people because my guys were getting in trouble, you know, whatever it was, it could have been a business dispute, it could have been something like that, and that's a big part of your life, dealing with other members of the family. about disputes and um, then I had my businesses to run, you know, I had two car dealerships, new car dealerships, I had a leasing company, so I was a business person in that sense, so I would say you know, 50 of my life went to my organization. criminal life and the other 50 went to my business life and like I said I was aggressive so I got involved in a lot of different things and I was busy from morning to night I mean I was a workaholic and there is no way of live, I mean, no, I'm not saying it's the best I can do, but I was very motivated at the time, so again, a lot and then every weekend, without a doubt, every weekend week I had to attend weddings and funerals.

Is incredible. The time I didn't know who was getting married or who was dead, we just had to go, you know, out of respect, because again we had five families and someone was dying or getting married and we had to go and sit at a table and giving an envelope or paying our respects, so that's also an important part of that life and you know, we party a lot too. I mean, I was in a nightclub six nights a week before I met my wife, that was my life and you know. until three, four and five in the morning every night, so we did a lot of that and it's a very active life, if you're an active guy like me, you know, I'll tell you another thing, you know, there's a big fallacy in that life. that you get to that life and suddenly you become a millionaire, well it's the opposite, you get to that life and you're paying all the time and we had 115 guys in our family who actually took the oath of 115, 20 of us were salaried , the other 95 of us had support in some way and we got him a job and they did a lot of the hard work. um, you know, it's not a life where everyone makes a lot of money, contrary to what people believe. uh, yeah, out there, um, do you think that life has been, is and continues to be too romantic in the public's mind and you said that there is a movie being made about your life and that you are producing this musical and that you have written books So what do you do or do you do something to dispel these romantic perceptions that people have?

Yeah, I never glorify life because you know I said this before. I'll say it again, it's an evil life because families are destroyed as a result of this, so it shouldn't be glorified, it has been glorified. I mean, The Godfather did more for the glamor and prestige of my formal life than any other movie and I remember that even the kids on the street started walking. change differently after that movie came out, it created an aura that in many ways exists today and it shouldn't be that life shouldn't be glorified and, you know, it just happens to be the platform that I was given and I never realized I was telling Jonah earlier that I had a speaking event in Singapore, Singapore, it was a ticketed event, a secular event and my host came after and said Michael, we, uh, we're going to have a question later, we promised the ticket buyers who can have that.

He said great, it was called a night with the Godfather and um, but they said, but don't worry, Singaporeans are very reserved, they're very, they don't ask many questions, so we can put an accomplice there to ask a question. or two I said great, we'll go home early no problem uh we were there for two and a half hours the questions they asked I was surprised about John Gotti where Jimmy Hoffa was buried Paul Castellano they asked about murders about my life about Sopranos I couldn't believe it and the same thing happened in Australia and the same thing happens everywhere and the movies have created an aura for that life that is known all over the world I tell you this I was here three weeks ago and I spoke in 14 churches and at a secular event on the Isle of Man, in case none of you have been there, I wouldn't suggest going anytime soon, there's not a lot going on there, it rains a lot, but the people were wonderful and just. you know, they call it, they describe themselves as 70,000 drunk people hanging from a rock, that's right, and we met a group of them that night, but it was fun, um, uh, what was he saying, oh god, what I was saying, baby, yeah, oh yeah?

Same thing in Australia, I mean, I couldn't believe, you know, this is the platform they gave me and we were here, oh, we were here three weeks ago, they treated us like rock stars and we got out of there, I mean. There are crowds in the room and I just couldn't believe it and for me, I always say that God is brilliant at bringing people into the room because people are intrigued by my previous life and it gives me the opportunity to share some things. That's hopefully encouraging to people, but I never realized that when you're a part of that life, it's just your life.

I never realized how intriguing and interesting it is to people until I got out of it and started experiencing it myself. Yes, you said that you. You were in the hole for about three years and they brought you books from different religions. What was it about the Bible that made you see that as the truth? Well, historically I was able to verify many things. I really like apologetics, um, and I read a lot of unapologetic books. Lee Strobel is a friend and someone I consider a brilliant Bible scholar and I was able to verify many things I read in the Bible, both historically and practically. in my own life and in the lives of others and you know and I'm answering the question I'm not believing what I'm telling you I don't impose my faith or anyone else's on anyone and I never try to turn anyone into a Christian you I know that, like Christians, we are somehow obligated to share what the Lord has done in our lives and that's what I do and if you ask the question, I'll tell you, you know, no one really has a problem with Christ. in life they believe he existed no one really has a problem with his crucifixion they believe he was crucified and there is a lot of external verification of that from the writings of others at that time people have a problem with the resurrection and I can understand that to some extent , but to me it's the same group of writers who wrote about his life, who wrote about his death, and who wrote about his resurrection, and the transformation that I saw in the lives of the people who witnessed the resurrection really resonated with me in a big way. don't do what they did if don't do what they did if Jesus was a myth to them that sounded very, very powerful to me because I understand that to a large extent my life experience tells me don't risk your life. for something that is a myth if you are and it could be a myth, but if you really believe it, then it's really believable to you and then um and I, I can delve into this because I've read a lot later. that led me to believe that historically the Bible was accurate and then the work that has been done in my life and in the lives of others leads me to believe and I will tell you this I have to say this my mother-in-law died of cancer and she died in 2001 , I think, and she was living with us and I was taking her for her chemo treatments and I had her taking probably 30 different pills and stuff like that because I was looking for all the homeopathic ways to try to help her. with her diet and medications, etc., she started rejecting all of that and my wife was very upset because she was very close to her mother and so were her six brothers and sisters, so one morning I put her in the car and I was actually scolding her. .

She was taking her to UCLA where she was receiving her treatments and I said mom, what are you doing? I told him we're trying to help you, you're refusing all these medications, you know you're getting your kids. So upset that Cami cries every night and you know, when I say this I relax. She was sitting in the passenger seat and she turned to me and I kid you not, she had this kind of angelic look on her face and she just said, I, Michael, I'm going home, I'm ready to go and find out how that woman lived her life. life and understanding how real the Lord was to her, it was something real, it was the final proof she needed, she died two weeks later. and to me, even though God was a horrible being, whether he really existed at that moment or whether he was real and I understood how she lived it, it just cemented things for me and it's only gotten stronger since that moment, you know, I tell her this. to people and again I say this because you asked, you know one of the things, I'm sure you've heard this that the sins of the father fall on the children, fall on the children and that's in the Old Testament Bible. that's true sometimes and my prayer every night is Lord don't let that happen to my children whatever I've done in my life keep it confined with me and it's a prayer that I pray faithfully and I always say this even if that happened.

God has honored me to have seven great kids in my life and you know they've been great but even if that happened, I might be mad at God, I might walk away for a certain amount of time, I don't know what I would do. because it would hurt so much, but I could never stop believing it because for me the evidence is too strong and for me it's all about evidence and for me it's too powerful, that's how I live and like I always say, what do I have? What to lose if God doesn't exist and when you're dead, you're dead, well you're dead anyway, so you have nothing to lose if you try to live your life according to um, you know a truth that you think is good and if Jesus was something, he was good, no one can deny that I mean his teachings are all solid and all good, so sticking to that is a win-win situation, there is nothing to lose, you treat people the way right, um, and things just seem.

It has to work in your life, so I live by that and firmly believe it. Thank you so much. I think we have to finish it well, but thank you very much Michael for attending what I think was one of the most interesting and revealing moments. uh speaker events that I've seen here, well, thank you and I, uh, you know, I really enjoy being around you young people, I mean, you really are the future. I know it's kind of cliché, but you know the fact. You fill the room and have asked so many great questions. I really appreciate it.

I asked. I understand Bernie Sanders is coming. I wish I could be here to debate him or Bill Maher if Bill Maher ever comes as a guest. Please call me. I would love to debate him too, but it really has been a privilege and an honor, I really appreciate it and I wish you all the best. Keep up the work. If I could add anything else, I have to tell you. I am, I am so impressed with your country, the people are really so respectful and courteous. I mean, that's what we've experienced. I mean, am I right, baby?

I mean, it's not always like that in the United States, but of course, we. I know we can deal with it there, but they have been very hospitable and, this is a great place, it has become the first place on my list, so I thank you all for that. London is amazing. I see where New York came from. from London that's great thanks just a quick reminder that this week is a weekquite busy here we have tomorrow we have Katie Hopkins he will be here which will be very interesting please come and challenge her. because I can't do that alone so I need strength and numbers.

On Wednesday we have Sigma the DJ Duo which will be very different but also very good and then on Thursday we have a debate on immortality and then on Friday night we have Piers Morgan, another interesting one, so come to all or some of them if you can, but otherwise, thank you for coming.