Malcolm X | City Desk (1963)

good afternoon, no matter what your point of view, the growth in Chicago and throughout the United States, if not throughout the world, of the movement known as the black Muslims, a movement popularly believed to preach a doctrine of hatred towards the white race and the supreme supremacy of the black race headquarters of the Muslim movement is here in Chicago in the 5300 block of South Greenwood as leisure is now known as Elijah Muhammad he resides here the most active person in the spread of the black Muslim movement en Elijah Muhammad's second-in-command who goes by the name Malcolm Mr.

X, can I start by asking you if you could describe the platform and policies of the Muslim organization? The platform that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, our religious leader, stands on is the platform of complete freedom, justice and equality for the 20 million black people. people that our so-called blacks here in America and teaches us that due to the severity of the condition in which our people now find themselves, it is absolutely impossible to solve our problems with any means other than religion and teaches us that the religion of Islam is the only religion that will instill in our people the incentive to stand on our own two feet and instead of trying to impose ourselves on white people or to incorporate ourselves into white society or to blame white men for our situation and constantly beg them for what we want.

Have you said that the only way we can solve our problem is to unite with each other, among our own kind, cleanse ourselves, get rid of the evils we have become addicted to here in this society and try to solve our problem ourselves and I referred to the popular belief that Muslims preach hatred towards the white race which does not subscribe to this. No. I have never heard the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teach or preach hatred towards anyone. He preaches hatred against evil, against drunkenness, against drug addiction, against poverty and. against having to beg for the things a man is supposed to have but I have never heard him teach us or any of his followers hatred towards any human being do you think some of his followers father then have misinterpreted the word that they He I heard and follow a practice of hatred towards whites.

I don't think any Muslim practices hatred towards anyone. We have businesses all over the country that are patronized by white people and we have a lot of businesses here in Chicago and our customers are white too. like our own kind and a white person can go to any of these places of business and will have to admit that he is treated with more respect and finds more dignity there than he will find among the so-called Negroes who profess to be teaching love to all which you have had twice, you have referred to the blacks, the so-called blacks, find some fault in this, yes, sir.

Muhammad teaches us that black is a term that the slave master applied to us during slavery and, to write it correctly today, it is a term used only to denote the descendants of slaves, it is never used for blacks, but Africans They can get to In this country they are not called black and if they are called black it bothers them, so if black men are black as we have been taught, it would be a term applicable or flexible for everyone, but he says that it is something that means our slave or something like that, who is it means something that has been left out of society politically economically educationally and otherwise you don't consider it as an anthropological tournament it is definitely not an anthropological term, it is a slave term and it was a term that was invented in America and was used by slavers, slave traders and slave masters and attached to the property or channel or merchandise that our people represented on that particular day mr.

O'Connor, what is your real name, Malcolm Malcolm X? That's your legal name, as far as I'm concerned, it's my legal name. Have you gone to court to establish it? I don't know, I didn't have to go to court to be called Murphy or Jones or Smith, sorry for franchising him like this, he's not a Chinese person, if you said his name was Patrick Murphy, I'd look at you like you were crazy because Murphy is an Irish name, a European name, or the name that has a Caucasian name. or white background and a yellow bag, the Chinese is a yellow man and has nothing to do with or connection with the name Murphy and if it does not seem appropriate for a yellow or Chinese person to walk around called Murphy or Jones or Johnson or group or Powell, I think it would be just as inappropriate for a black person or the so-called black in this country if the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us to walk with these names and therefore teaches us that during slavery, the same slave master who owned us he put his last name to indicate that we were his property, so when you see a black man today whose name is Johnson, if you go back in his history, you will find that he was once his grandfather or one of his ancestors was owned by a white man his name was Johnson his name is Bunch his grandfather was owned by Allen period there was a name Bunch would you mind telling me what your father's last name was?

My father didn't know his last name. My father got his last name from his grandfather and his grandfather got it from his grandfather, who got it from the slave master. The real names of our people were destroyed. Was there a line somewhere in his family genealogy where he had to use the last name? last name and if so, what was the last name of my ancestors? It was taken away from them when they were brought to America and made slaves and then they were given the name of the slave master, which we reject, we reject that name today, you make it mean you.

He doesn't even want to tell me what your father's supposed last name was or the given last name. I never recognized him at all. Let me ask you about the status of Elijah Muhammad. First of all, is he sick? I spoke to him today. He is in better health than him. He has been suffering from asthmatic bronchitis that is why he did not attend his The only reason he did not attend was his poor condition and the weather here, especially on that particular day, was of such a nature that it would not have been almost It is a crazy that it came well.

Did you hold that meeting last Tuesday because it coincided with the general elections, the primary elections? I think if you study the history of mr. Muhammad's work and his religious work in this country. We've had our convention on February 26th every year for, I think, the last 33 years. Well, now you don't mind talking about your former name or the name the slave master had. you gave your background it is a matter of record that Muhammad's last name was Poole Elijah Poole no, that is the name his slave master gave to his grandfather or great-grandfather but that is not his name well his mother and father thought. when they called him Elijah Pooler, that was his name, they didn't know any better boy, they didn't know anyone better or not, they thought that was his name, yes sir, but sir, what I'm trying to find out is when he stopped being Elijah Poole and became Elijah Moore in 1931.

I believe it was in Detroit that he was taught the true history of our town and made aware at that time that he had an English name and, not being English, he seemed out of place and his teacher. I gave him the name Muhammad Elijah Muhammad bears today. When did he become what he claims to be in his literature? The son of Allah. I have never heard the Honorable Elijah Muhammad referred to as the son. The father never heard of him. Where is the Prophet of Allah what do you mean by the Messenger of Allah? Alright.

The Messenger of Allah and I appreciate the correction. Yes, it says that a prophet is someone who predicts the future and does not predict the future, while a messenger is someone who carries a message that has been given to him by someone who is the author of that message, now who gave him the message and to who is supposed to be delivered master WF Muhammad, whoever taught him is the author of the message who gave it to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, which makes him the messenger and he must deliver that message of truth and righteousness to the 20 million of the called black Americans, which means he must teach us the truth that will awaken us and then show us how to live a life of righteousness. which will automatically qualify us for recognition as human beings by all other righteous human beings here on this earth.

Well, now another question with reference to what mr. Hurlbert asked him a moment ago that he took a very moderate position of wanting independence without having any hatred towards white people, that is, I understand that, correctly, hatred is not involved in it at all. I remember a recent plane crash, I mean. Two or three years ago or less, an Air France charter flight in which a group of people from Atlanta Georgia were, as they say, in business as they took off from our Liefeld and at that time you were quoted expressing great satisfaction. that this tragedy had occurred do you remember that I didn't call it the lady from the press interpreted it and distorted it what did you say she said it was done in a Muslim meeting it wasn't it was done in a demonstration of Catholic and non-Catholic Baptist Methodist blacks in Los Angeles that were demonstrating to protest the brutal shooting of seven unarmed black people and what heavily armed white police officers said in the

city

of Los Angeles and because we are a people who have been taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad to never carry weapons of any kind, except to wear on God's side and trust God to find our battles for us at the time when these brothers were struck down so brutally.

I pointed out at the funeral of the brother who died that God would intervene and take a hand in giving us some form of justice for the brutal murder of our brother and when the plane crashed in France I pointed out to the crowd at this demonstration that this was an act of God showing his anger or his complete resentment at the brutal form of injustice that had been inflicted on our poor unarmed brothers, would Dr. Billy Graham was on a crusade in Chicago and the press, his newspapers here in this

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, quoted Billy Graham also saying that that plane crash was an act of God and if you take the time to look through the newspapers, I think you'll find that this is correct, but no one thought that Billy Graham was so wrong when he attributed this plane crash to his boy, but when we say it came from our God, then we look at his being, you know, indignant, I know, but you took the position that This was a matter of satisfaction to you for the injustice done to you and I think that is a bit serious.

We didn't think it was a coincidence that one hundred and twenty of the white people on this plane came from the state of Georgia, a state that has the worst record in the history of the United States for the mistreatment of black people in this country, worse than Mississippi, well, maybe they are a little less modern. Mississippi is a little less hypocritical today than Georgia, but they both still practice the same thing. Now white people in Georgia have black people with a smile, whereas before they used to bite them with a snarl, but they still bite them and we don't think it's worse to be bitten with a smile than to be bitten with a snarl mr.

Calvert, the Mississippi issue, what is your organization's position on what happened in Mississippi, for example, the James Meredith incident and his enrollment in college? Well, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad wants justice for every one of the 20 million so-called blacks and to simply take one black and put him in college with the help of the six, I think the sixth, 15,000 soldiers and at a cost of six thousand dollars, it is a shame, it is a waste of taxpayers' money, it is a forest, it is hypocrisy, because it is correct. for a Negro to be forced to enter that university, then all Negroes in the state of Mississippi who are qualified have the same right to go to that university and if the government is not ready and willing to enforce the right of all Negroes of the state of Mississippi then, in my opinion, sir, it is just hypocrisy to pretend that they are for justice by pushing a black man and blowing him up all over the world to make it seem like they are solving the problem when millions of black people in that state still are going to segregated schools and receiving an inferior education if your organization encourages members to try to enter schools with Bellona's all-white law, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad does not discourage us from entering white schools, but he does say that it is better for us to go to our own schools and after we have a deep knowledge of ourselves and our own species and have been instilled with racial dignity, then we can go to any school and still retain our grace, our pride, our racial dignity and we will be able to avoid the servile inferiority complex that most blacks have or that our invaders instilled in most blacks who receive this type of integrated education, well, there is a private school operation operating here in Chicago at least and possibly elsewhere and lately it has been a matter of controversy what the acceptance is. of people leaving their private schools and going to public schoolshigher education.

Yes, we have many students who graduated from the University of Islam at 54th Street and Green Work who now attend other schools. In fact, just as an example that of Mr. Muhammad's children never attended any school in his life, but the University of Islam which he later attended at DePaul University. She also attended the University of Chicago and is currently attending Al-azhar University in Cairo, one of the oldest Muslim schools in the world. daughter-in-law, so whoever went to school here attends Cairo University and then we have other students who graduated who attend other colleges and universities in this country and at our school we never have any crime problems. any school dropout we never have any lack of respect for authority or lack of respect for parents we do not have any type of juvenile delinquency all the things that the school system complains about regulate the critics and the most severe critics of mr.

Mohammed has to admit that we are not, we are not playing with those same problems in our own school. I have heard your leader on at least one occasion and at a convention here it was two years ago and that time he advocated the separate state Proposal to give what you call the so-called American Negro a separate state in which to live to make their own path. Could you explain that philosophy pleased you? Have you received any support from anyone? An official rank. His first question is first. to my understanding what mr. What Muhammad has said is that he wants freedom, justice and equality for black people here in America, but you agree that they don't have it, if they did, you wouldn't have a race problem and he says that if America can't achieve freedom , justice and equality for our people in this country, then the United States should allow us to leave, if we can't get along together, we should allow ourselves, we should allow ourselves to leave and go somewhere where we can set our domestic tasks and then they say that if the United States can't he loves us go home to our own people and at the same time they want to keep us here because we can't stay here and get along together in peace.

It says that what America should do is separate a part of the country and give us a section where we can live and give us everything we need to make our particular section function independently, support us for 25 years until we are able to function independently in its own society and in this way the problem will be solved, mr. McEwan, you say there is no juvenile delinquency, what is the discipline? Well, number one. One of the first things that mr. Muhammad teaches that you have to set an example if you want others to do the right thing and teaches adult Muslims to live a highly disciplined life in a highly moral life of high morals and for parents to show the highest morals in front of others. children at all times automatically this is a pattern or an example for children and in our schools our children the emphasis is placed on the recognition of Authority and when children recognize Authority and respect Authority it is easy for anyone who has authority teach the child and discipline him and make him aware of the importance of living a life according to the law even after he grows up, how did you come to join the Muslims?

He was in prison. I was a very misguided criminal, illiterate backward, uneducated and whatever other negative characteristics you can think of type of person until I heard the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and because of the impact they had on me and gave me the desire to reform and rehabilitate myself for the first time in my life and also being able to see the effect he had on others, this is what made me accept him and also, before listening to what he teaches, I had no interest in anything serious or in any type of educational activity and I realized that after being exposed to the religious teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad they immediately instilled in me such a high degree of racial pride and dignity that I wanted to be somebody and I realized that I couldn't be anybody by begging the white man for what that I had, but I had to go out here and try to do something for myself or make something out of myself.

What has been the growth of the Muslim movement? There are conflicting reports about how many Muslims there are in the United States. Can you tell us right?, say most critics. that the dissatisfied follow Muhammad that the unemployed in the oppressed Paula Muhammad and I think you will agree that the sociologist, the economist and other experts say that the masses of black people are unemployed dissatisfied, oppressed and fed up for him to really get his support at the mass level, but now you have other blacks at the class level who pretend not to support it because usually the white man has given them the job, they have positions that they have been appointed to and they think that the only way they can protect their job is pretending in front of the white man that they are not going for mr.

Neither does Muhammad, but how many Muslims he always says there are in numbers he couldn't say. I've never heard him say it and he's the only one who would know five hundred thousand. He couldn't tell. I think anyone who says it is I'm not in a position to know and anyone who knows wouldn't say What do you think the Urban League in the n-double-a-cp has achieved for your people? What is your own way? They have been doing everything they can to achieve this. freedom, justice, equality and human dignity for black people in this country, but today there is such an intense degree of dissatisfaction and impatience among our people on a mass level that it is almost impossible to reach them where the program is headed.

It will take another hundred years to solve their problem and they are still content to wait to have their Urban League and n-double-a-cp has done a good job according to their understanding, but today more immediate solutions are needed and the solution that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is immediate, it is not perfect, they are not moving fast enough, they are moving as fast as they can, but that is not fast enough for the masses of black people if a person is sitting on a hot stove and you are prepare. let it rise, no matter how slow you are, he has patience because it is only one, but the masses of black people who are sitting on a hot stove are impatient and no matter how fast you say you are moving to let them rise. progress is not fast enough for them, well the n-double-a-cp of the Urban League has been critical of them of the Muslims, the n-double-a-cp and the Urban League have been manipulated to criticize us against his own will.

Generally, the oppressor has always used the tactic of divide and rule to keep the oppressed down and the n-double a-c-p has been used against the Muslims. Efforts have been made to use us against them, but the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says he will do it. work with the n-double-a-cp, the Urban League, in any other black organization that wants to uplift the black man, as long as it does not conflict with our religious principle. I remember one time when Elijah was quoted as saying that the Urban League in the n-double-a-cp sold to the white man. Has he ever done that that I know of?

I don't think he said they sold themselves to the white man. I heard him say that his feeling is that the n-double-a-cp has existed for 54 years and since India they elect a new national president every year and they have never elected a black man to fill that position. Arthur Spingarn has been president of the n-double-a-cp. double a-c-p for 24 years and in this sense it means that they are either practicing the same discrimination that they accused the white man of practicing, they are practicing it themselves or they are not qualifying other blacks in that organization for positions. of leadership this is our only criticism.

I personally feel like they have sold out to the white man. That argument. You personally feel that these organizations have sold out to the white man. I don't think they did it knowing that they would allow themselves to be used or misused. against their own people, so if they do not do the job that our people expect of them, it is probably simply due to lack of understanding, but today their understanding is increasing and you will find that they are developing better capacity. work with all the different factions for the betterment of our people Malcolm, how do you feel about the white man?

I believe the white man has done a great injustice to the black man in this country by kidnapping our people and bringing us here. then go down to the level we have today and today instead of addressing the factors that your original mistake has created instead of addressing these factors objectively and realistically, the biggest sin they are committing now is trying to bite us, trying to pretend that they never committed a crime they never committed wrong and when the Honorable Elijah Muhammad signals the end, the judges that our people are suffering from this, make it worse by accusing him of teaching hate or accusing him of black supremacy or accusing him of advocating violence simply because he is pointing out the real history, we have a little time left, you don't have to rush, something like now, no, you were born in Omaha, that's right, yes, sir, and you left your family in Omaha. when you were about a year old, I imagine you were about a year old and why they left, as I understand it, the Ku Klux Klan burned down one of their houses in Omaha.

There's a lot of this that made your family very unhappy. I'm sure I'm insecure, if not unhappy, so you must have a somewhat biased point of view, a personal point of view, in other words you can't look at this in a broad academic way, I really think that's wrong because a even though that happened in Omaha and then when we moved to Lansing Michigan our house was burned down again, in fact my father was murdered by the Ku Klux Klan and despite all that, no one was more fully integrated with White than me, no one has lived more in white society than me and it was only until I became a Muslim that I stopped living in society, so it is completely integrated with the vice president.

I have white people in their family environment, definitely, most black people in this country have white people in their families. family background now, how are you going to differentiate between white, sinew and black Bloods and you don't mind me using them? No, I use it interchangeably. I know you do it well. I use it for the purpose of using it, but Use it against my will, but I used it voluntarily and describing the instant in Los Angeles, so I use it against my will. I guess the teachings were instilled thoroughly, no, but when I tell you that police officers in Los Angeles shot and killed seven unarmed black people, every black man.

The public knows what I'm talking about, but when I say he shot and seven Muslims were shot, a lot of black people don't realize because you say you use the term colored people, you said I don't think about this. The show is not in color, I think black people understand you well, we can use black and let me go back to another point you made, you said come home now, what do you mean come home? I have only heard the Honorable Elijah. Muhammad said that back to our own people since my return home, they don't care that I return home, but by that he means return to the roots of Islam or does he mean return to Africa, return home, return home, it means returning to our original civilization and If you study history, Islamic culture existed in West Africa, but your family didn't originally come from an Islamic background, right?

I mean, you come from the proud tribes of Africa, which I think you'll find to be one of that Islam. The Islamic culture that really exists only exists widely in Africa Central Africa. We have met a lot of people there, Mr. O'Connor regarding that tragedy in Los Angeles, I myself referred to it when it happened as the tragic police action, so I am NOT totally biased, thank you coming from Mohammed, who is the publication of your cult or your religion, Elijah. pool Elijah Muhammad referred to the policeman out there, the white policeman has demons, he said there is no justice here for us black people, there is no future for us or our children in civilized America, doesn't that imply that you are going to go out? or that's his desire for you to come out if he referred to those police officers as demons who were heavily armed and they knew they meant that the blacks they were shooting in cold blood were not heavily armed.

I do not believe that those The police themselves were denied with their Demons nor with any black person who witnessed such an act. Deny that you are demons regarding the other party. There is no justice here for us black people, there is no future for us and our children and civilized Americans. To make up for that, he said it on his behalf and he's right in what he says, sir, well, what do you mean he's going to know? It means the same thing that Attorney General Robert Kennedy is a medium when he says that the number one internal problem in the United States is the racial problem that it is almost impossible to solve, it is almost impossible to give justice to blacks.

One more brief thing, I read also and Muhammed says a quote that Elijah Muhammad is the only person on earth who is as personal as he was. Talking to God personally, do you think you definitely believe it? We're going to have to leave it at that and Malcolm, I'm sure he's done a good job rehabilitating you. He is anice to have you and said yes. m in Chicago for the next three weeks at the local mosque at 54th and Greenwood for a special lecture series