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Kevin Chiles on His Rise & Fall as a Harlem Drug Kingpin (Full Interview)

May 31, 2021
hard now you have people going to say oh man because i know some people said this in prison but you shouldn't have your family involved in it but like i told you my family wasn't involved in that that's what they do the feds, so you know, I mean, but you have to put yourself in that situation so you can't say what you're going to do and say you can put yourself in that situation, but you weren't really willing to do it right. well this is a distinction between his situation and mine my family didn't sell narcotics with me that's the first thing but this guy, we didn't actually sell narcotics well you know there was a gray area where like his mother when he he was out of town his mom would drop off the money and you know some of those things Mickey's mom was cashing in you know the cashier's checks were technically

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money so you know if there's a dollar connected to a

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operation drugs they can get you in a Rich well well same goes for me but I just weren't part of my organization I kept it there now obviously they benefit from my winnings yeah I took care of it I mean I'm sure that they had an idea of ​​what I was doing, but the guys that I did all these crazy things when they arrested me, they weren't in the bullpen with me, so to me that indicates that something is not right here, they don't know what they shouldn't know so he made me understand that this is not this is not what it is like they are using my family to do more or less what you said yes and because i have faith and upset like you know a lot of this was my bravado a lot was my ignorance because the other day whatever you're thinking doesn't really matter yeah but you know if the feds want to paint history a certain way and if the jury wants you to know how the feds painted with their 97 percent conviction rate that your whole family could going to prison that might have been the end of the end me but to me most americans when we think of the feds we think they are the barometer of truth is what you want to believe this is what they broadcast to the public so for me I needed to know what this looks like when you go to a jury and the pictures where the phone calls where we are on a wiretap where with the drug deals these people did none of this so what I just couldn't.
kevin chiles on his rise fall as a harlem drug kingpin full interview
I don't understand the concept of and again that was the card they played I just didn't go for it so let me ask you a question you know if you could honestly and absolutely answer if it was ultimately a hundred. percent sure if you don't cooperate with them your sons mothers your sons mothers your aunts your cousins ​​are going to go to prison for substantial periods of time would you still not cooperate this is not in my blood it's ok would you let them go to prison? Along with that, it's not, it's not, you know what it wouldn't be that I would let them go to prison with me but if there was a part of the crimes that I committed and it was wrong then I guess at this point we would all have to pay the consequences of our actions like but like they were innocent like i didn't feel like i would have had a conversation with my mom say hey we all did wrong we broke the law true this is what comes with this yes this is part of the other side of that corn but that wasn't the Anyway, okay, I get it, but telling it isn't something I've never looked good on, so you had a friend named Charles Allen Brown, from Mount Vernon, who was lobbying you at one point. at some point you gave him cars for clarity this guy Charles Island Brown actually used to work with AZ and well he was part of that other group I described earlier but he went to jail and then when he went to jail he had a good name at the time so when he got back home the way the drug gang works is l like someone came from jail and you see him in a position to help him you know that's kind of like the part of the ideals of what is? try to get them to recover because they went to jail without telling them at the time that they had a good name so when he comes home that's what you mean by a good name right they kept their mouths shut so he got out, you helped him.
kevin chiles on his rise fall as a harlem drug kingpin full interview

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kevin chiles on his rise fall as a harlem drug kingpin full interview...

Sure, oh yeah, you said you saved his life a couple of times. I did it for what was not there. he wanted about three keys of crack this isn't it not long after they passed that legislation in '87 where crack was 100 keys for a key of cocaine powder yeah and then when he came to me and said he had someone he wanted about three keys to crack a single ohad for me so i wanted a I already laughed my ass off like anyone but never heard of it ok they were people but it's very rare that most people would want to buy and make whatever they wanted, like cocaine, they had fun, whatever, whatever, but it seemed strange to me. but for him they were willing to pay more, where are the four kilos?
kevin chiles on his rise fall as a harlem drug kingpin full interview
It was twenty thousand, he was willing to pay twenty-seven thousand in New York and this doesn't sound right to me, it just doesn't let you know, it doesn't make sense to me. but anyway, for him, he was looking at making between fifteen thousand and twenty one thousand, it all depends on why he sold it and literally handing it over, you know, from getting it to handing it over to somebody and that's easy so uh but i just told me it didnt make sense to me so i said ok since its your customer then tell them let someone sit with them take the money come get it take it away and they are doing it like this but no one is its going to change. just coke to break a and then do it and then if they don't want it what do you do with this?
kevin chiles on his rise fall as a harlem drug kingpin full interview
Like you know that sort of thing, but I convinced him that it wasn't something about that anyway. It didn't make sense, he in turn went and found. someone else trying to do what he didn't do, maybe he didn't even do it, but the person went and for trying to do it with them he ended up getting arrested so I remember he came back to me and said he thought I was like your. you know, you know, you know, I'm glad you know how to appoint a lawyer, etc., so that was one instance, there was another instance where I was dealing with someone who, uh, was dealing with one of these notorious teams and they they took it as a slight because the person I was dealing with they were making money with this guy and when he cut that guy they weren't making money with that guy anymore so they took that person they found out who he was and they knew he was with me and i got a phone call that was like you i know your boy has yeah yeah out of respect for you keV i'm calling but your boy has a problem because we're eating him he's just one person and he's in the middle of that and he's taking a business somewhere else and we're not, we're not going to take something like that and I and I showed them that I would have a conversation with him and get him out of the middle of that, you know, and I had the other guy finally was killed again, so 22 of you It's are now linked to this whole ongoing criminal enterp

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, everyone gets arrested except Charles Alan Brown, who goes on the run, and that lasts a good six months, then he gets caught, I'm sorry, and what happens as soon as he's put the handcuffs he gets to talk to the traffic officers, damn, you know, that's what they were equivalent to just local officers in Raleigh, NC, not the feds, just people who had a warrant that he got caught and and and and i'm not making this up for the sake of trying to humiliate the person this is a fact and my finding states that as soon as he got caught by local law enforcement he was talking to them so someone broke ranks .
I absolutely walked away because I got arrested today. They found guns in every house I lived in and I can live with that. That's not what they. I don't have a felony so anyone who knows anything about the feds they don't bust. you if you don't have a felony there's no charge if you're caught with a gun and your offender is called a felon in possession but because it wasn't a felony right because up to this point you weren't being arrested you weren't really a convicted drug dealer true and and and and and for clarity when we talked about my family what also related to the way I proceeded was the fact that when he went to arraignment they were all immediately released as if the prosecutor had no argument to keep them in prison so that It was also an indicator to me that this case was not what it was, so that helped me make my decision.
How did you feel when Charles, when you discovered Charles? City and this is the first time I'd see him since he'd been running and everyone in the bullpen and I swear there was nothing about him that gave me told you I didn't know all the things I'd done for him let me throw it all away him when all my code friends said he was going to say he was going to say and and I was probably the only one who had faith that he wouldn't because I knew all the different things he had and I hoped I did enough for him to feel like you know that I need to be with all of you because I took over and up to this point no one told me and it was just part of the conversation for him and he had you.
I know it wasn't until we left the bullpen and I got back in the building and I was talking to the bailiffs. and people and receive and discharge because I didn't know how to get around the building at this point and I gained favors so I was trying to get him to come to my floor, you know, to get him signed on my floor so you know I could bring him up to speed on where we were with the case so when we got out of the bullpen I told him listen I'm going to have you taken to my floor so when you're in my when you're when I'm in my housing unit spend an hour and he doesn't show up you know I'm going to the correctional officer an accident you know could you do me a favor and see what's going on with this guy when he came back with information.
I knew he was bad, he's fine, so he walks out on this 25 year plea deal and you decide to fight right now when you have pre-trial plea deals. The feds have all this paperwork, but they can basically black out. all the names and he acted and acted right so you don't know who said this right you don't know no he won't name right either you have an idea an idea but you don't know the velcro because there's a black line going through certain parts of that document and since most people take plea bargains you never get to know you never get to know and people could basically rat you out and you might be wiser and you walk away with no repercussions and they come to the lessons they are saying exactly the most case of people don't take it to trial that's a fact ninety seven percent conviction rate exactly yes why would you? facing that yeah i remember

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ing chris gotti and herb gotti and we talked about how when they beat the feds he was like most it's like a unicorn situation where i was like you like no one expected this that it's a fact but they got over the fence it cost a million dollars they lost a record label but they won it but that never happens thats true so you decide to go to court and at that point they give you the actual document , Yeah.
Like a discovery, the process continues. A discovery is given to you so that the things that are hidden, yes, you start to see it in the paperwork. You said that Alpo was actually cooperating on your case. well, the easy thing is a little different because I don't want to, I don't understand that when I see his name there you know that the exit was already arrested and it was understood what he was doing at that moment you know that he was arrested in like 1991 and when I went to jail it was understood what was going on with him so seeing that didn't surp

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me but I saw the name AZ and it didn't make sense to me because he wasn't arrested he was a free man at the moment you did the flex

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and you mentioned what from AZ right Z who I know I've interviewed before ok I've never had a conversation with him about this ok but he spoke publicly and said what you said was a lie he claimed not seeing you knew and he told you if what you said was true he wanted to give stones to his children and his children stoned him ok what do you say to that I already proved that he knows me I mean that he knows that he knows me he let me go ahead and flat Z wrote a book that precede all this ok that's the paid movie in its entirety it was based on that book no no no he paid in

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it came first he made a book he has a book called gameover gameover it came first he did what was a title but the book is called that ok but the book arrived years later, the book entered 2000, okay, but in any case, this guy says he doesn't know me, there are two chapters dedicated to me in the book someone I don't know is okay so you know let me explain it to you the next time they talk because again you don't know me why you write about me in your book ok then you have your first test ok if a Z and Alpo is on the paperwork why don't they force them to take the stand?
Okay his explanation of that because I just want you to know I'll preface this for people who don't know and that's fine now and I'm used to doing yes if you make a statement against someone right? I mean we didn't have to make it about someone and it goes to trial, right? legally put that person on the stand you know Ross examines no that's not true no that's not true you look at people can make statements withoutBecause you know my son wouldn't be here, you know, yeah, if it wasn't for him, so I named my son after him that Sunday night. until having and then Charles who took the position against you who was facing 25 years that time served he walked away you have time so he walked away how they make you feel you know that I know that I am my dignity is intact my most were my principles the ideals for the ones i live with so you know and like i said you know he has to live with whatever option he may not have to live with miles well he takes his plea deal fine he starts his 10 year offer he has a lot of assets you leave with other people, the right business is right, etc. and listen to the story. over and over again with people interviewing all of that goes away yeah but you know you know what and I don't know if the people who have said what they said to use it was not malicious you know how I was here and I was monitoring things so when you leave a non-business person in charge of a business the business usually fails because they were never a business person in the first place it's not like they go and Swan and you spend your money and then not have note that that wasn't what wasn't my own sense okay for example I talked a little bit to D Freeway Ricky about this right and they left money in people's names, their property in people's names and when they finally got out . the money was spent on the property.
It was in someone else's name and they were trying to pay it back. You have to trust someone. You have people who have money. You have people who have it. Your properties and their names. many of you years do what i thought were years family and friends will respect that money money because i feel like they don't need it they don't like it and they care they say oh you needed some money to go to the house of commons there and talk on the phone . I don't think I just cared that much to be honest because everything I owned or owned was with my family and like I said no one did anything malicious to my family.
I, as you know, have to live, life goes on, that's not something that a port. i'm aware he guessed prison and he's mad i was mad at you too i know here's this guy i made millions of dollars per family and he was mad i was mad at the guy right? and he said that a couple of years later, after sitting in prison, he finally realized that snitching is part of the drug game. first of all i made the mistake of going into the drug business that was my first mistake my next mistake was i went back into the drug business and said i quit yeah so what he did is he just did what What people do in the drug business say that you got set up and someone got into the drug business and didn't understand that I was in the drug and dinner business, but I dealt with it, it's ok to think you are going to sell drugs and no one is going to rat you out you are just kidding yourself because ultimately everyone who gets into this game will get ratted out and it was actually their fault to get into the game of drugs instead of someone else's guilt for doing something that usually happens anyway. well you felt the sa In my own way, I feel like I convinced myself that I treated people so well that they wouldn't give me away and just took care of people the way I did.
I really think no one was going to rat him out. I you know and I'm not going to act like my theory is 100% flawed because I'm talking to you right now and 22 people were arrested and one person was told I mean some people consider those large percentages yes but it doesn't matter because everyone knows You need just one person, but you see what I'm saying, but even with that person, his story wasn't enough to get him a conviction because he would be looking at a life sentence, I mean, you wouldn't have this. conversation for ten years i did it and that's not an insignificant amount of time no it's not but um i think you're the age right now i'm in my mid fifties or right a fifth of your life you spent in a cage you can't just overlook that so I'm only ten let me say this you see what I'm saying? n I'm not one I want to help you understand who I am.
I've been doing Donald Eva for twenty years because of my own ideals and principles and I've been rooting for guys who were there when I was there and are still with you. I know a lot of things that happen in my life when I was selling narcotics, and I, and I, and I, and I got mad at this because I experienced some amazing things that maybe if I hadn't sold drugs, I wouldn't have. and i don't know and i don't know when i have to look at it like it's almost like you ask someone how much money i would have to give you to do some time and there are people who will say hello because you know i work for edison and i make $50,000 a year and In ten years it will be better equal to five hundred thousand but after taxes it is this and if you tell that same person I will give you ten million dollars if you do ten years ago there are people who crashed lying that they say you know what I am going to spin these ten years, which is not guaranteed.
We're going to survive because we don't control our life expectancy, but there are some people who can rationalize that and say you know what the trade-offs are worth, but you didn't have money waiting for you, you don't have, this it's not me. It's me looking back in hindsight. I see what you're saying even though you know that but that had to go down for how many years ten twelve ten twelve and then for every day you got out you have to spend a day in prison or so it's not worth it to me but no , this is for some people, you might know that I'm going to jail, right?
Honestly, there isn't exactly an amount of money worth going to jail for, but because of my position and stuff. I've taken and and and I have to make it make sense to me but you know what and I'm going to tell you something else you know that sometimes certain things need to happen for you in life in order for you to get to where you're ultimately supposed to be and that it was what it was you know it was scripted this is what i had to do and i look b Think about it now and i became the person i became.
I probably had to go through that to get to where I am now so I'm not trying to harbor a surrender regret, obviously my regrets are like a mature half-elder I know the devastation I caused in my community and over the last 20 years I've been doing everything I can with Don David uh talking about prison reform and recidivism and you know even with the stories I do about these guys that these kids look up to and they all end up saying this isn't what you want to do, you know, yeah, I mean honestly I used Deva as a template for what I do well you know along with American Gangster I did one of the episodes on there but it's like these kind of stories never end well and that's what we tried to push at the end , as fast as if there was never a happy ending in the end that is never yes and I got out and I already had a hundred million dollars for me and you don't know much how people get out there their families die while they are in prison ion can't go to funerals their friends die that way women leave and that's true they have other relationships and other children and they miss raising their children which is what you absolutely missed you had how many children when you entered for four children and you you lost a decade of their lives.
I played a very important part of his life. That's a fact. That's a fact. You have to live with it. I spent every day since I got home, you know, trying to make sense of their lives and the mistakes I made, yeah, you know, and you got Don diva out of jail, yeah, and I guess one of the things about Don divas you guys no I don't do snitch stories no we don't yeah I don't have the same pattern with well well you what they never told you in seethat I could have told you then I would feel a little different, I think if I only interviewed people, there is one, I'm sorry, I understand. uh, most of my interviews would be in prison, you know, the phone interviews I've done, but listen, I get it, you know I started by telling you life is about balance and I get it, it's just for me. i'm a civilian yes and i understand it yes you also know why i'm at this point but nevertheless i understand what it is and there's too many people i left behind that i've loved that i couldn't go out and do anything there , so you just know it's just you know back when these things were done Blatt we were kids you know us with kids looking for a way out I mean this is not something I would get into as a Midway man you say that I'm selling my country house it doesn't make sense I mean you know I'm middle aged or the same age in 2020 it's just not going to work well that's not even the point for the most part I'm not saying that at the time my set of circumstances were just right and i did what i thought i needed to do to take care of myself and then at some point my family and then it multiplied and went beyond what yeah but what i'm saying is that what you did in the 80s is not possible.
We didn't have a day. How did it feel to get out of that prison after a decade? You know I didn't spend a lot of time in prison like you know I was lucky like you said to start Dundee maybe five or six years later I spent a lot of time vicariously living other people's experiences so my body was dead but my mind wasn't you know ? I was always thinking what am I going to do because I've never worked in my life like I had a summer youth job as a kid for a few months and here I am getting out of jail at 30 like what am I going to do wait you got out in 2004 like this that from 1994 to 2004 officially done yeah you know i got half in a year and a half but officially in 2004 okay you ate a year and a half be right ever say yeah what changed the most in the world once that you went back to that, um, technology to me, yeah, I mean, missile, our phones weren't around, were they?
I mean, his network wasn't that big. I remember having two things that I went. to the motor vehicle because I had to get my ID and get my whole face in order and I remember having to take my driving test on the computer and I just remember how hard it was because when I left, we had accounting things and little things like that, but I think I had more trouble taking a test than because of course I know how to drive, but you know about technology, the advancement of technology, yeah, I remember talking about D a little bit, he was a crack king from Oakland, yeah. we did a story where you just started we did it yeah and when i asked him what was the difference he said ok he said when he got out he would be walking the streets and people would be on their cell phones that he would bump into. each other and just not acknowledging each other the person just walked out he said in prison if you meet and you don't recognize that person that might be the last thing you ever do that's a fact i was in another world man like i was the look the look she was on i was like a person you just let out of a cave i mean thats how long i was gone like when i saw all these people on the iphone with a hair net texting each other texting and bumping into each other man I freaked out cause it was like that these people moved so fast and then in prison you gotta be nice man you gotta say sorry if you bump into someone man you know you gotta say sorry you got a got a you know because it's a matter of respect so when i see they know people air-blow each other not now we're not a freak and i'm like man how crazy is this you know i remember talking with Shyheim on this and he said, he said, yeah, I mean line up, you know, and you're in line to get food because it's okay, you have to handle that at that point, a dirty look, everything you're living in a situation where where violence and death can break out at any moment. war well in a fight I'm standing in line going somewhere and here you come I could be in the sheriff's line taking my bag here you come don't you see me sitting here so fast so fast you know or just me I know I'm saying that someone's looking at you you cross honestly like you're looking you'll look the instant they do it's a lot longer than me too let's show him six years oh yeah well I don't know what his experience was but in a little bit D I know, but I, oh yeah, a little bit D D like thirty, so in your responses I can relate to, but for me, like I said, I lived outside of a person like me, I just was there. so you never get caught up in things or politics ER i was trying to get home as meaning my my focus and my attention was on reading moving forward i only found out what i am going to do with my life because i had an appointment again and i was at the around the corner i was done almost three years already and just fighting oh yeah seven more than five technically all five is regulated ok so i see what you're saying isn't right so you know it just isn't it was focused on politics and bureaucracy all that bullshit i mean they claim you made 40 million dollars in drug sales ok to do that and dating eight and a half is not a bad deal no and i think the number it was very conservative so i agreeoh you think it was over 40 million do the math when when i told you what was going on all along what do you think the number was? in many different ways, like then, what was the most ridiculous thing? that you bought i just think i just ran with an entourage all the time like you know every time i made something it was 10 of something like you know that's just what it was i want on vacation 10 people with that you're paying for everyone, everyone and not because of the guy who was getting money from me, but just because of my extended family, no, yes, all-star games, fights like you know, so it's just that you know, again, that's why when I reflect on it, I mean for a lot of people you don't interview a lot of people and that's why they call it the golden age like there are some people who just can't go any further because they're better lies is behind it because I've never experienced anything like it and to support that even with these rappers you just see how to recreate that if someone music and some of his fashion because he just talked about it was just he was heady he did it just was you know well because all the rappers wanted to be the drug dealers that' If he wanted to look like e to him, they wanted to dress like that, especially during that time because we were young guys, look at the guys I walked up to looking at, yeah, they looked at guys older than, but we were young, you know, yeah, well Kevin uh, he had a hellish life yes and you know you still had a long life ahead of you absolute you seem to be

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y aware of everything that happened it seems you took responsibility for absolutely everything that happened and you know even your mother it's horrible and as tragic as that situation is, you have to put some of the blame on the lifestyle.
I put my all into it, you know, and it's a hard pill to swallow. I'm living with it. guys and it's whatever but it's like you were just a regular guy working for you yeah yeah and that mom would still be working at the bank and it's a given yeah that's a given that's hard, It absolutely is, yeah, I'm not over it. yes and i doubt if you ever my father is still alive yes how does your father accept that part? heads or tails you know the rest I can live with is part of what happens but that's just the only thing you know I just can't figure it out yeah okay I appreciate you coming and I think it's really cool how you took that life that you lived and you turned it into a Don diva capable of pivoting.
You know, I think that's the mark of a true con man. go out and then you're broke at the end and you know but being able to be great at something and then have that come to an end and then move on to something related and be great at that too because Don D but I think it's a legendary post I think really It was I mean I think it's one of the most read publications in prison oh absolutely yes you know and you know how to take your experiences and your values ​​and build a media company around it which is something I've done well too haven't you would you do Yeah I think it's cool and it's not easy to do it's a fact believe me it's not easy to do and I think you had a very authentic voice right and what you do is very unique you know it's different than a flat TV or American gangster or whatever and you know i wish the best for you your kids i'm sure they're definitely your father your aunts cousins ​​you know and you're like a silver lining you know you became a drug dealer but your brother actually went to college Columbia yes, they did, which is an Ivy League, one of the best universities in the country, the world's entry into the world, yes, I myself went to UC Berkeley and I have a degree like that.
I am very proud of what it will help. your entire life absolutely won't exactly what do you do for a living? He is actually in private industry now, but he was actually the basketball coach for st. John's and a lot of prestigious schools, but hey, you know, and I'm sure by doing what you had to do, you were able to help him financially so that he didn't have to enter as a deed and then end up going to prison and lose all that opportunity to at least you could look at that situation oh i have and that's just it was a driving force like everything i did was for a reason you know ok i appreciate you coming i appreciate you had me oh yeah thank you

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