Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy CorbellNov 09, 2021
- boom and we're live first of all greetings gentlemen let's have a little toast chill Bob thank you so much for doing this I really appreciate it I understand you've told this story many times you've been questioned many many times and it's very stressful for you so really I appreciate your time for people who don't know the story. There is a documentary. Jeremy Korbel has a documentary on right now. He is called bob
lazararea 51 in UFOs and flying saucers and flying saucers. air 51 in flight sometimes I first heard your story decades ago I told you we went out to dinner last night I've seen almost every interview you've ever given I've followed the story incredibly closely, but for people who don't know the story, let's give them the points that you used to work on area 51 and area 51, you got it, you were like um, well, you know, we want to be precise. ok um you worked on what would you do? how would you describe? either, I guess within the area 51 complex you can call it a subset of area 51 and he got that job before he worked before I had worked at Los Alamos right National Labs in New Mexico and was involved in what kind of work at the physics of nuclear weapons development i mean they do everything there so how did they approach you to say hello bomb once you got to the nevada desert well the way this happened was at that time I was 1982 I put a jet engine in my Honda and Los Alamos I put it on the front page of the paper he said you know a man from Los Alamos a physicist in the lab you know he built this 200 mph jet car he was driving to work every day so I was in Los Alamos I knew the guy with the strange car and you know you could hear it from a mile away anyway the day it made the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, I was giving a lecture in the lab and we didn't have much going on in our group that day and I asked if I could go there and I came down early and Ed Teller was outside leaning against a brick wall and reading the front page of the newspaper now there's a guy out of the story so I introduced myself hey I'm the guy you're reading about there and we talked for a while and it was great you know fast forward two years later I had moved to Las Vegas and you knew that I left Los Alamos and left. to other things and I wanted to get back to scientific humanity yeah I let start other businesses and that kind of thing so I sent out resumes and one of them went to Ed Teller and he mentioned our meeting you know back in that day and anyway he remembered me and gave me a referral of someone to contact at EG&G and that's how it started so you get a phone call or a letter like what's wrong? letter initially and I went in for an interview probably a couple of times s and it was at EG&G special projects which was at McCarran airport at the time in Las Vegas and they gave you some kind of job description of what you were applying for they said it was for Edie I don't remember exactly what they did this a long time ago, but I think it was advanced propulsion or something like that, something relatively generic and they said it's in a remote area you know there's going to be some days off and you know it was something like that it wasn't exactly a work of full time, but you might have to be there for two weeks straight and take two weeks off, so the work schedule would be split up a bit and was that appealing to you or not? seems weird no it really wasn't weird because the people who work at the test site anyone who is familiar with the area up there you know works at the nuclear test site or the Tonopah test range north of over there. i had known about it from the scientific community because area 51 at the time knew something about area 51 ok so they just said it was in a remote location and they just know it was at the test site but it was not mentioned area 51 at that time they did hundreds of nuclear tests in nevada nevada that whole area was there has been just giant chunks of nevada people yes there is a big part of nevada and it was divided into different areas there is a nuclear test site there is a area 51 is the tonopah testing range to the north there are little sub areas there are areas where they test chemical weapons and stuff like that so it's all divided up like one gigantic testing area so take me back to day one at the job you take a job than to get you there yeah it's the first day i really didn't get to see much the first day was essentially just paperwork that was when i flew into area 51 proper and left mccarran airport and got the flu which she They call you Janet's flights.
You know a passenger plane from Las Vegas to area 51 and I was really going through a mountain of paperwork that day, from security clearances to the cat, there was like two or three hours of solid paperwork and that was really an uneventful first day. When did things get weird? When did you realize? At what point did you say hey, this isn't a normal job like this? It doesn't even look like it's from this planet that I can't tell you what day it happened because so much time has gone through the days of sort of a meltdown and I can't hear today's, was it slow or was there a moment of recognition? it's on s4 it's on the side of a mountain and we normally had stopped with the bus and come around the front through a normal double door this time i went in there were hanging doors open i went in through the hangar door and into the hangar door was the puck the flying saucer that I worked on I saw him sitting there and we walked past a little American flag with a head stuck to the side and I thought oh my gosh this finally explains all the flying saucer stories this is just a fighter advanced and this is fun so I passed by I wave my hands past him I was immediately reprimanded for touching the thing and there was this guy with armed guard who followed us and just said keep your eyes forward with your hands by your side and just The first time I saw anything strange was a while later when I was introduced to my lab partner Barry and we had some of the subcomponents. it's from the ship in the lab and Barry was really looking forward to getting a new lab partner so he was really talkative and couldn't wait to show me different things and it was at the reactor working demo that it struck me that this is a technology that doesn't even exist so i mean it was the first time i found out that this is really something different thing what was what was what happened to this reactor that made you think it didn't exist technologically well was that i actually have I had to go back because there were some reports that I read before that certainly gave me the impression that it was going to be a strange job but this was the first practical thing, it was a small reactor the size of a hemisphere, the size of a ball basketball on a metal plate and when I was running it produced a gravitational field a gravitational field of its own now this is something we can't do we can't produce any g ravity the only way we get gravity is from large amounts of mass but there's no machine we can have that spins on that makes gravity like you know you can turn on an electromagnet and it creates a magnetic field we can't create a gravitational field anyway, this device was producing that and Barry said it's almost like he's bluffing, go ahead and try and try to touch the sphere a and I, I couldn't, would push my hands away like two equal poles of a magnet, like this which was like when you take two magnets and try to push them together, yeah, yeah, sort of a damping feeling, but you can't, you can't. bring them together the closer you put them the more they push but did you feel that physique with my hand yes now there is nothing there is nothing that does that and that immediately caught my attention wow this is something else how was your thinking when you felt that? and you knew there was nothing you were aware of that could predict me connecting to the reports i read the first day in s4 was you know everything i had read was apparently accurate what you were reading i read it was some sort of description Generally this project was to do backup engineering on the alien ship and specifically it was to try to do backup engineering and see if we can duplicate the technology with the materials available now to do this, they split the project into many differences.
Different pieces for various reasons do this on all classified projects so no one has the full story but they compartmentalize everything now that we had the power and propulsion system so the reports they gave me were like an overview of a or two pages of some of the other projects. that was going on in the craft the only reason they do it is in case your working is intimately connected in some way that we don't know about one of the other projects you have to know about there excuse me its existence so you know that I bet again everything from metallurgy you know the potential of the weapons the ship and this was all you know essentially very short briefings but mine was just power and propulsion and made it very clear that what I read was accurate So when you're reading that before you saw the reactor what were your thoughts on what they were describing if you knew something like that didn't exist and they're describing it in the briefings what did you think you were going to see I didn't really know at the time I mean I was reading I thought this is some kind of test to see if you're crazy well not to see if I'm crazy - you know a lot of times they'll take real high security jobs I mean in They will intentionally insert nonsense into it, either to confuse the fact or if someone were to leak it, they would carry that information and know where it came from, so I read. the docs, but I didn't know if this was part of some sort of test or if it was potentially realistic, I mean I hadn't really considered it that much possible as far as being the actual object I was going to work on at the time, did you? how did they turn it on there? little tower in the middle when you put the hemisphere on the reactor it activates the reactor it turns off its charge sensing so if there is no charge on the reactor it turns off when a charge is present it starts charging again which means you can think of it as an electrical load, so even though it doesn't necessarily work electrically, there's no wiring connecting any of the subcomponents together, they just have to be in the immediate vicinity, that's a given, but the material is at the limit of the magic and that's essentially where we left off, you know when I left the project so there was no progress. some progress, I mean, we identified at least, we thought about some processes and we had a rough idea, we thought about what was going on, but I think this is a problem that they've had for a long time and they know I was replacing someone that Barry worked before me and I think there was a horrible accident that I didn't have much information about, but you know Barry alluded to a horrible accident as where someone died or yes, where someone died because they were trying to tamper with things or figure out how something worked, yeah the particular reactor but he still let you touch it yeah I think what they were trying to do was cut one off now that they had more than one in there and I supposedly had an unannounced nuclear test and that's what it was in at that time remember they would still do an underground nuclear test at the test site but from what I understand according to Barry there was an attempt now this must have been quite a desperate attempt because n or it's a very scientific process to cut, you know, analyze something like that, but it looked like they used a plasma cutter or something.
I have to cut into an exactor how many of these things they have. They had nine nine ships in total. I only got hands on with one of them so I can't really say how the others operated you see the others yes at one point and only once the bay doors between the hangars were open and I could see everything. on the way and they were all exactly the same no they were all different different shapes yes but they were all from somewhere else yes absolutely now has anyone made any attempt to explain or tell you where they came from? no, no one is the least bit interested in everyone knowing all the facts they want to give you the minimum information needed to complete your task so you don't get the story of where they came from don't get the story of how much progress other people are making that you focus on the small component, but they gave you any indication that they've been working on this for a while, yeah, when do you think they acquired this? as you are brought into this room you see this reactor running you realize this is nothing that as far as the scientific community right now has the ability to create wait you still don't know what your life is like from that moment.
It's where everything changes because you do, I mean, I can imagine the moment when you actually come into contact with something that's extraterrestrial, whether it's an object or a being, something that you can be absolutely sure isn't from here. , your whole paradigm, the whole world in whichthat that happened once or twice before I left. Did you ask any questions about what the phone is? ask now but when you see something become transparent and you realize it's still there but now you can see through it yeah i mean no that's not that impressive we have some liquid crystal materials that they're like this you know smart glass yeah they call it smart class so this is just and i don't know if the craft is made of an advanced metal or a ceramic it was cold to the touch so you know i'd lean more towards a metal, you cannot ask questions. no the only way to work in the buddy system so i can just brainstorm and talk to barry now this really interferes with science because science is based on free discussion and ideally brings together a group of people brainstorming , they work on problems and d that's how things go but they're so overly concerned about security that they split everything up and everyone gets stuck, it destroys all the progress they can make or at least slows it down so much I think they ended up shooting themselves in the foot, which is probably why they got to this bottleneck that they need to get this crazy guy with a jet Honda to come in and see what he could do.
I think it was an act of desperation. I think they wanted someone. that's thinking outside the box and we're going to give this guy a shot here because they weren't and they could have done it four more times from you know to the present time assuming they're still working on this and when you see this ship and you're in Was there any indication that there was an area that they would use to control it for piloting? Was there a pilot seat? so equidistant around there were three seats so that's it there was a big one they are not consoles there are large rectangular objects also spaced equidistantly around the center there is nothing on them there is no button that there are no lights and they are filled with the same color this is all the same color different shape to the right and directly below them are three levels in the ship the main level is what we are talking about directly below that those are the gravity boosters the large rectangular objects below them are the gravity midders that seem to be missing rather, a trash can hanging from a pipe, three of those and then the top layer.
This is just my personal belief. I think it has to do with a navigation or their version of a computer with some sensor panels flat around the ship. which we would call portholes but they're not portholes they're just black areas and I think that just determines their position in space but I was in the middle section n and I tucked my torso into the bottom section and hung upside down so i can see how the gravity amplifiers were placed which ones are roughly the size of this thing? I think I'm not a member of being there, but after all things ended.
I had John Andrews, a guy from Testers Model Corporation, and you know we sat down and tried to figure out from what I saw and knew the sizes of things and we got 52 feet in diameter. I think that's always small, yeah, so I think that's a pretty reasonable guess now that you said there were nine and got a brief glimpse of the others how they differed. Oh, they looked completely different. One looked like I called a jello mold and it looked like a classic. jello mold with wavy sides make it one it was a very flat disk you know like oh i don't like a straw hat or something it was sitting on its edge and the thin part looked like a projectile had been shot through the edge, so no I don't know if they were trying to see if you could penetrate metal or if something or that's where it came from maybe it was knocked down but that was the only one where I saw there was actual physical damage and that was about the same size all they're tall, they were too far away to go mm-hmm and there were multiple teams that were working on the propulsion system, so there were different teams that were working on these different aircraft.
I don't know I could only assume now that when you're sitting in this thing and you're looking at this otherworldly ship your goal is to try to figure out how this thing works your goal is to try to figure out how this reactor works I mean would you imagine that they'd give you more than a day to check, oh yeah, it wasn't a day, right, yeah, I mean, this is Barry, he was there, I think Barry was sleeping there, I'm sure. they had now that that's not weird i mean oh put try tonopah range where they work on stealth fighters you know you go i think three weeks in a week off and you stay there too so it's not weird to stay in the test site so yeah you think he's cuter than him like he's been up there for a long time yeah but I'm still there yeah oh no so do you have contact with this guy?
No, oh no, I wish he had. a lot of criticism and it's too much for what happened i think i actually ended up helping security there and everyone got scared to know do or say anything after that so what kind of reports did you have to give to not be making much progress , right, you're just trying to figure out what this is and it seems impossible, so we didn't do them personally, I mean, we always were, there was never much information that we got the guy you'd call ours. supervisor or his name was Dennis Mariani and a military looking guy and h He would routinely show up during the day and they knew what was going on guys and he essentially relayed any information, anything new that we came up with. to wherever they were gathering all the data everyone knows I'm assuming you're working on a normal day so I can work eight hours no no it wasn't really weird that they would only call me at certain hours on certain days and they would be weird hours too the most of the time it was later at night I mean I can get a call at 11 o'clock at night and they'll say you know it's now 11 o'clock at 11:45 you have to be at McCarran Terminal and we'll let you know when we have more information, but what did you do while you were there?
If he's looking at this object, this reactor, and he can't figure out what it is or how it works. that the fact that it works on this element that we don't even know for sure, I mean the thing was - that what you do and you know with anything if you're trying to analyze it all you can do is run tests and all we did was trying to come up with all sorts of proof that we could possibly say we tried you know violated a lot of what we thought was impossible to violate. I mean one of the first laws of thermodynamics.
I mean essentially any machine. Any device that works always generates additional heat. some of that energy will turn into heat and just go to waste this didn't mean we look back then we had infrared cameras which is different today but back then you had to pour liquid nitrogen into the camera to cool the sensor down and get these infrared images you've seen but you never got no matter the load on the reactor it never got above room temperature which is impossible I mean you know extracting huge amounts of energy and nothing ever gets hot we tried to measure the magnetic fields and there was nothing there so we started playing around with the emitter emission which is the gravity wave itself and we saw what we could do with it and how it focused so we really spent all our time just trying to to see what things can do and what we can control, so you were looking at what it could do, but you could never figure out how it was doing it. a better guess and now i can't really say i could state with absolute certainty how something actually worked now how did you know at all how they were piloting it because some were doing some tests where they had these things fly in the sky and this It's what makes us dig into his story, right?
I was there for a test, actually I was with Barry in the lab and Dennis came in and said we were about to run a test. Because? don't come out or i think barry w edding said come here and bring bob with you we went out and the ship was already out of the hangar and getting ready to take off now they were in communication with someone on the ship so there was a person there , yeah there certainly was a person there now its not a comfortable place to be because its small so the guy has to be sitting on the floor in the middle my best guess and this is the same specific craft you know it was because you you were the one that was the only vessel that you were the only one that i touched and worked on and it quietly lifted off the ground which was not incredibly impressive to watch quietly or quietly which is fine quietly because it produced a little corona discharge from the bottom a corona the discharge is some kind of high voltage brush a little bluish glow discharge as it was rising from the ground you can hear a slight hiss now as soon as it rose from the ground about five or ten feet, maybe even less than that, the hiss. ng stopped and the blue go disappeared so he took off quietly then hovered quietly if you want to be specific Wow so what kind of maneuvers was he doing? and to the right and then she sat back on the ship itself they communicated with her with a rake because I saw the guy talking and a normal VHF radio to the person on the ship and I even saw the frequency that was on the frequency counter of the communication the transceiver there but the weird thing is you shouldn't be able to communicate with the ship with a radio the radio the radio waves should bend around the ship i mean there shouldn't be every single thing about this ship and the way it should be possible that operating didn't make any sense to us I mean that's something we talked about for a while after why the frequency should bend around the ship well you really have to look at the way the gravity wave leaves the ship as reactors. in the center and there is a waveguide that goes up to the top there is actually a little appendage that sticks out on top of the ship and it produces a heart shaped gravitational distortion around the ship now if the ship is in air and you walk under and look up you can't actually see the ship light bends around you you are bending gravity bend light bend radio waves it's um it shouldn't be possible to communicate with a ship that it has a wrap around it that is distorting all forms of energy but apparently they were in contact with it one way or another through some inexplicable way but they bother to explain to you so this thing gets up just a few very simple maneuvers, left-right, left-right, go down and they discussed this. with you I mean they said they wanted you to see it no they just wanted no they didn't discuss anything with me he said they sat down we looked around a little bit and Barry said let's go back we went back to the lab all what I have to to do is watch it fast-forward to a few months later.
He had the test flight program for the ship. Now they had moments where they had designated high performance tests. Obviously, this was not a high performance test. The high performance test was. above the ridge and they make much more radical moves with the thing, look this is a precious item and they're not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere or flying it around other countries or anything like that, they're just playing with this thing okay. about the test site but they were making some radical moves with it and since it had the test flight statistically scheduled the amount of traffic and surrounding areas on the road were lower on Wednesdays and that's why Denny Dennis told us that all the test flights happened only on wednesdays because that would be the least chance of anyone seeing what's going on and this was before the government expanded no-go territory around area 51 and papoose lake and all that stuff, yeah i think that that happened after my story came out then people started going up to the tops of the mountains and trying to look down and they got a little scared and then they grabbed the land and pushed everyone back but yeah that I think all this happened much later.
I'm sorry I'm out so you're working there and while you're working there you're on this crazy schedule but forgive me for explaining your story but you would get these phone calls. I would have to go to the airport at 11:00 p.m. and his wife started to think that you were having an affair, yes, apparently, so now I gave him my permission to know as part of the security clearance process. they're not doing anything covert that they know about with any Q clearance tour which is civilian top secret clearance or military top secret clearance they're going to talk to friends and they know the places you've been make sure you're not online with foreign countries, but you know that monitoring your phone is nothing unusual, however, they insisted that you know that you don't even talk to your loved one, to your partner, to your wife about what's going on, so she wasessentially in the dark and unaware that the phone was being monitored as part of the security clearance. is that not only do you have no connection with foreign countries and you are a maniac, but you must also have a stable home life; well she started having an affair with a flight instructor now they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew about it. and I didn't, so they kept me from going in and their attitude at the time was that we need to see how this plays out and if Lazar is going to get a little weird or something, so let's know to keep him from coming.
You go in and you see what happens and they explain this to you what was happening long after the fact, yeah because time went by and there were guys following me and I started to get a little worried. project and if so he's not going to let me hang out at home and go find a new job knowing what I know so as time went on I started to get a little worried and I took my closest friends and just we got together and I said hey remember that work I told you this is what's going on and you don't need to take my word for it Wednesday night we all have to go out here I want to show you what's going on so I took everyone and we went out to reminisce since I had the test flight scheduled and I left the base to the desert and everyone could see that you know one of the high performance tests and you know that it left a big mark on everyone so they knew that it was not and there are videos of these evidence yes but remember this isn't like i'm in the dark in the 80s of the monster sized camcorder and you know a bright light jumps out but yeah i mean we made a video of but there's no according to the current standards. is but is your video specifically available the video that t ok yeah well george knapp has it it's an argument now you have no idea?
Jeremy yeah I show clips on my film it's online and somebody did some deep analysis of that it was interesting to see how well this mic up to talk about a fish off your face you know to see what his face looks like video now, but as far as video evidence, I mean we're talking about 80s camp words, the most important thing is human history here, everyone he took there. three separate occasions not everyone likes each other not everyone talks everyone agrees on one thing they saw something that night at the exact point in time and space that Bob Lazar said and remember this is 1715 seventy miles south of area 51 no one really knew about area 51 we're talking about papoose lake and everyone agrees they saw something that night that they've never seen before and it ever made sense right when you said it so that's one of the six things where i'm like?
How did he know you can say hello? m I rule it out, but there are some things we can't avoid and there are about five or six of them. How did he know if Jamie wants to find that video right now? What would you look for under Bob Lazar's UFOs for area 51? so it's like that for bob
lazarufo video and god does an analysis but you're analyzing these 80's videos he from the beginning bob never said i have proof of my shop and i will tell the world. i said at the beginning i cant prove my story thats not why im telling this george knapp talked him into telling people and he lived for it and i didnt believe it either until i talked to george ok so you filmed this test flight a test flight and then you get caught actually I think it was the third time because we went out there the first time mmm everyone saw it everyone was amazed because he did some radical maneuvers and you know everyone had a lot to say but new you see I've seen I've seen the video I don't I don't think there's anything we have now that I know in terms of a human piloted ship I mean I don't know obviously with the governor there's no way anything can move like that and remember we didn't start to film from the beginning. you know deep down we were waiting for something you know to happen the craft took off and I came flying and stopped you know I turned or angled backwards and then you know afterward I did some amazing things to get the camera and then we started filming like this that you don't have everything there you just have something the way I describe it to my friends and they said what I said take a laser pointer and then have a wall and then move it around the wall like you know how it moves around the wall it doesn't seem like it has anything to do with inertia or physics or it's not impeded in any way by the atmosphere yeah that's what I was looking at you are essentially detached from reality as crazy as it sounds to be in case of its own gravitation the inertia of the envelope won't affect it and you know that's how some of those recent sightings Commander David Flavor I'm sure you've heard of this exactly you a UFO I mean it describes exactly e that thing works exactly the way you described it that's why he was interested in talking to me but we saw this and on the way home it's like we got away with it we should try again next flight day test, so this became something to do. and I think it was the third time we got caught.
I mean, we started to get a little careless. You're 20 years old yeah and you know how much fun it was that we went out and my friend Jean Huff and I were leaning against the front of a vehicle and for some reason we started talking about airplanes well I hope you guys noticed . I don't remember what we were saying but you know it's about attacking the base or something and stealing the ship or something so I'm crazy and then about 20 feet in front of us we see a little green light hit the ground and roll towards us and unbeknownst to us it's pitch dark now you can't see your hand in front of your face there's a bunch of guards standing out there and they had a night vision scope where they were like from here to the wall looking at us listening to us and the guy dropped it and the scope rolled towards us and you could see the green screen and we turned on the lights and all these guys were there so it was amazing yeah yeah so we did unbelievably stupid things and they got us like we should. because when they grab you and bring you, then what happens well.
I went to report the next day. I went to Indian Springs Air Force Base, which is kind of a defunct base that they used to use at the nuclear test site and that's when they put out the transcript of the phone call with my wife and you know they sat me down and we said you know when we wanted to keep the secret we wanted to say you can't tell your friends right you know and just being sarcastic and trying to hmm and then they got real serious but this is where, you know, they pulled out the transcript and they're reading to us what we were talking about my wife and your friend, and it was our penny, so what happens from there?
What do they do with you? why don't they arrest you I don't think I don't know I don't know why I'm not sure they knew exactly what to do but they let me go that night and I went home and this is when the most stressful part started because you realize you They are bombing, yes, no, yes. I contacted at the time the only investigative reporter I had heard of in Las Vegas was George Knapp and I told him some of the story because I had no idea what the hell was going to happen at that point so George Knapp tries to dissect your story try to find holes in it say he puts it online and let everyone know and that's how i found out yeah to make a long story short well whats going on still to really shorten a long story whats going on From there, I mean, if they contact you and say, hey Bob, it's probably a good idea if you shut up, how they try to label you crazy.
There was a boy? There are many things that happened at that point. I am omitting a lot of things to complete the story. We would have to go back to Los Alamos and, well, I really don't know. I don't want to talk about the top-secret weapons you were working on. in more trouble admitting something so i just got to dance around a cool couple during the filming of t The movie piano but the movies are great by the way thanks to Jay and it's on Netflix right now if anyone wants to see it and if you're one of those people like me you know I've always loved the idea of UFOs. got really tired of talking to people who believe in UFOs and are UFO fans because there are so many of them that are full of it and not just full of it they are childishly delusional like the way they talk about things I mean , there are so many people that's why I'm in contact, they contact me at night and they explained to me that what we are doing to the ocean is wrong and as you know, it's okay, this is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do the program.
I'm sure not, I mean no kidding, we've had people literally camp out on our front lawn and in some ways I can relate to some of these people, you know, maybe some of them actually had some kind of
experienceor he saw something and if all his friends think they're crazy but hey now there's this guy I heard on the I'm not full of radio and Latinos so I have to talk to him and therefore most of the correspondents who I receive are people trying to communicate with me. Come on, Bob, you have to listen to me. to talk to you I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever and and and but some of them are fucking crazy I'm yeah they're scary there's a lot of schizophrenics that are involved in the conspiracy world there's a lot of people that have real problems Joe it would be a disservice for your audience if you didn't say we have to look at what's happening now and understand that I've heard on your show a lot of things about what's happening now and for I don't really understand what's happening now, you can't see the history of Bob in the right light after 30 years and at some point we should mention that the most important thing is that things like the ticking UFO case that came out.
I've heard people even on the show say oh there's a glitch in the radar that's a data poor outlook you just don't know what's really going on with flavor of commander though? I was able to get the interview with him to talk to him long before it went public. I got it from him. He saw it. Other pilots saw it. This is something important that is happening right now. more east coast sightings recently cubes with spherical or these are not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend us on 9/11 The commander's favor protected Los Angeles on 9/11 so we trusted them but they're not trained observers radar guys see these things and the big one the big one just to throw it around so we can consider a little different story there's more depth the big one is the United States government has admitted they've been studying continuously the UFO phenomenon that program was called a tip advanced eros or sorry it was called AUSA that is the mother program George Knapp took it out they announced through the New York Times about a tip but they all established these acronyms impressive advanced aerospace weapons system The program of stems applications who cares, that was the mother program, so they admitted that we did not stop studying the ufos is in 1969 with Project Blue Book.
We don't think it's crazy. We actually want to reverse engineer the technology. show you said what is this AAV thing it's like they're making up another UFO name wait there's a reason because in the documents the DIA documents that George Knapp released which everyone said was fake so far they know it's real they call them AVS which are advanced aerospace vehicles people get the acronyms wrong so they are the reason for the terminology change so we can mimic what we are reading in the DIA docs people can look up that now so they changed names to drive people away. of UFO or UAP, even as Hillary Clinton said on the air, so what is Howard talking about he growls.
I'm Hillary Clinton, I informed the public about Jimmy Kimmel. Oh Jimmy, we don't call them UFOs anymore, we call them Unidentified UA APs. true aerial phenomenon, so she was saying that the Clintons are very involved in the subject of UFOs, Senator Reid, knows that he has done a lot for the subject, the study of it, so she informed the public so that they could search the correct term. so these terms are important because the day in those docs they've been calling vs for quite some time now and they changed the name to anomalous no that's a bug no no so they always play around with things but it's actually advanced, TRUE? but they're describing it on the news they were calling a totally anomalous vehicle and that's great they were also saying AAT anomalous aerospace threats because they want the feel of a threat so my point is everything if people don't know this now and they think this is a fantasy this part of this we're looking at it we're taking it seriously we're spending money on it and we're getting great data from visual pilots to radar that's why we know it's aerospace they fell from 80,000 feet, but guess what the upper range of the spy-1 radar is: 80,000 feet, so the radar system they were using was coming from above.so my point is this if you don't understand this is happening you're just behind the curve because you don't have the information because of the stigma you're talking about.
I saw that you got totally mad about the UFO thing. i met you first when you totally mad about the ufo thing it's the people when you're doing your sorry man when you're doing your show you know lingo questions everything i could see how frustrating it is believe me i've been frustrated too fortunate that he and my mentors, George Knapp, taught me Pitts Paul's pitfalls while I was analyzing him. My whole point in this rant here is that now we have to see Bob's story, but knowing the facts we don't. someone saying its a bird its a plan e its a glitch they arent and so if you dont know you just dont have the info yeah i dont just know the facts as we know it in 2019 not 1988 absolutely and so what did he say? that's come true he's not totally impressed with that, is he?
Jeremy, he had a 50-50 chance that he wasn't very impressed, when did they announce gravity as a wave? So they detected in a sense that they tried gravity waves. Now who are they? You may know more. that's how they were able to detect yeah somebody bill I don't know what group it was or what part of the government that's the Google room yeah but they, you know, they built a gigantic gravity wave detector and pretty much detected that there's such things as first gravitational wave observation says it was in 2016, ok, first gravitational wave observation was made on September 14, 2015, instead of what was announced by Li geo and Virgo collaborators on February 11, 2016, previous gravitational waves had only been inferred indirectly through their effect on the timing of pulsars in binary star systems Danton Tom the waveform connected by both Li geo LIGO observatories dominate general relativity predictions for gravity for a gravitational wave emanating from inside I'm trying to get this from the internal spiral and merger of a couple of black holes around 36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent ring down of the single resulting black hole well i mean yeah no he was in the 80s the prevailing theory was that gravity is produced by gravitons ok you know part of the theoretical particles but they are not waves they are not particles and so the idea is that the way we
experiencegravity is based on mass so the moon which is about a quarter ter the size of the earth is 1/6 the size of Earth's gravity so there is some kind of calculation you can do based on the correct mass and remember we can observe the effects of gravity but we have no idea what it is all we can do is observe it and not we can do it the only way you can do gravity is to put more mass together it's just a product of gravity but if you can do if you have a machine that does gravity you can pretty much do anything you want. it can affect the weather you can have a force field everything in fiction becomes reality if you have a machine that can generate gravity and what we worked on in the desert was a machine that generates gravity I love your analogy of dropping a small nuclear reactor to victorian times i love that analogy because back then it was impossible for it to be magic but here you are talking about the fact that they discovered this four years ago that this is a wave but we are as much as we know and as impressed as we are as we should be by far more technologically advanced than any other creature on this planet we are still in many ways in the adolescence of technological innovation absolutely absolutely yes even adolescence and when talking about this Zeta Reticuli binary star system and who knows how much longer than these things have existed than we have, who knows what their evolutionary cycles have been, who knows what i mean, we could be talking about something that is a million years more advanced than us, yes yes it could easily be now i don't think so or no i don't like ufos.
I don't follow stories or you know, even after your experiences. No, I'm fascinated with technology and it really works for me like every night. I'm going to bed. Essentially, it was my own action that prevented me from continuing on the project. I mean, being on the cutting edge of technology is so appealing to me, right? that there are aliens or where they come from I mean the prize is technology and that's what fascinates me but I don't listen to UFO stories and that kind of thing but George Knapp is I mean he's the guy who He has the contacts. and he tries to put it all together and what he told me recently when he found out that I don't know if it's documentation or people he talked to is in this the existence of this project the project I was on is something that they seemed to take is released every eight or ten years so it's a very specific memo and it's actually me this is the first time I'm going to be very clear with people about it it's a big talking point right now it's called the Wilson memo you can look it up Admiral Wilson is met with a scientist who actually appeared in one of my movies everyone has been debating whether this document of a conversation with an admiral sitting at the time is a real document is a real conversation that happened and this document is true but he He wants to know that the world is going crazy right now in the world of UFOs.
I'll tell you directly right now. I'm in a position to know and it's a real document that's real, so the conversation that you read that that conversation was had. I can't vouch for each one. It's not being very clear. Clear. Please, no problem. There was a document going around at the moment that is really big. It's going around everywhere. People ask what this document is. The Wilson memo is how you can find it online or the Wilson leak. Jimmy has it. Wilson's memorandum. The use of human vu. Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist and they have this discussion.
Interestingly, special projects at EG&G and if I remember the document from 2001 I tell everyone right now it's real and we'll see my track record is pretty good I would like to say and if something is real or not right so here we go the document comes out they met at EG&G special projects in 1989 they stumble int or a problem this happens they put the tech away and then they take it out and see if materials science has caught up and if they can make any progress so this This document talks about this process, the important thing that I get out of it and a lot of this is vindicating Bob and one of the things that it vindicates besides EG&G is private industry so this guy is an admiral and he says I heard about your Q essay your special access program I need to know about that and he goes to a private part of Industry and is denied access and says uh you know he should be running this program and they were able to deny him access so I think the bottom line here and s get out.
I tell you that's really right. that's a leak now everything that is said in that document and i don't know what you are talking about what is said in that document is between a scientist and an admiral who are sitting down and they are having a meeting and they're talking about the search the UFO thing the quest to gain special access to the program access to all these different things like reverse engineering programs so in this document they talk about that I think this document that the person that was was employed by Robert Bigelow you know one of the guys has a couple satellites in orbit and all that stuff he's a guy owned by the skinwalker ranch no he's not he was the guy ok ok yeah he used to own there's a new owner and he's i interviewed for my other movie but there's a new owner and you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon but uh like there's just your stuff you'll be hearing about skinwalker ranch soon because there's a new owner anyway the whole point The part of it is that the insert here is just that that document validates a lot of this idea.
Bob just said they make a little bit of progress, then they can't go anywhere, they put it away, and then they put it out again, ten years later, and they start working on it. it's the limiting factor i think bob should talk about this but it's materials science yeah that's really where the physics is so i can see them doing that i mean i didn't have any information on that but i think i did What you know Georgia figured out is It's probably true that you know we try to do what we can and once we hit a snag we can't really figure it out. project again and take a good look now at where we can go, but there has to be someone who stays informed, oh yes, I have your scientists like you and Barry, you have your people who compartmentalize, you have these people working there. to be some people who know everything you have security and then someone will be outside saying hey we need people to protect this building don't let anyone in for 10 years I said yes I think a lot of that is private industry and I think that's the way it is how do they keep it, yes, I think that's how they collect the garbage, the government has so many leaks, I think that's their mass, what the document proves, you just articulated that they are in control, the private industry, what a private industry, some aerospace company, something.
I don't know yeah they wouldn't the guy the admiral I wouldn't bring it up in the car in the conversation yeah so they still have this stuff supposedly I guess I mean I don't have any information right? Did I ever ask anyone who had any idea where they got them or how they got them, no, but Barry must have told me something, but I think it was too long ago and I can't remember. he said he, but he just left a seed in my mind. I think at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig, so it's kind of old.
At least one of them is old. I don't know if it was the one I worked on, but I remember something related to an archaeological dig. that means it's not just old it's old it's going to be a great Steven Spielberg movie as all of that yeah that came out when he first said that no that's a scare yeah yeah Harrods with some brushes looking a tyrannosaurus. Rex bone hit the metal and when they found it you know they have nine of them and how could we not have heard about that. What about the guys with the brushes?
How could you find out about something like that and with Joe's newspaper at home? means they said it on day one oh you mean roswell yeah yeah i got a cover what is it? This is the document, but I had to do some digging to find it. This is Admiral Wilson and a lot more is coming out now. I want to make it clear. George didn't pull this. He didn't leak this. at that time Robert Bigelow and this is in 2002, right? Remember when he had that government contract called hop that everyone knows about now and he had knids that studied the ranch that 22 million everyone says was for a state of the art advanced aerospace identification program the 22 million dollars was for everything the SAP that was approved? through congress three congressmen one astronaut passed and that's what 22 million dollars by the way they spend more money on viagra every year than on studying UFOs if it was just this program which I think is fun plus money from France they probably do those UFOs well you never know how you plant in a population but anyway this program this was the mother program so he got the 22 million and it really was to study the ranch Skinwalker oddly enough 22 million was all inspired by the phenomenon they were seen at the skinwalker ranch because scientists are seeing vehicles go by like a gap in the sky yes we went there i went yes you interviewed a bunch of people they seemed crowded but a couple weren't but this is totally very very interesting and there's quite a bit if you look I spent a lot of time in the area.
I'm not talking about those stories, I'm saying there were scientists. hired by the government directly through Bigelow to study the ranch because they thought it was important and you know whatever the point is that 22 million was to study that so we have a tip that is like a kind of military scenario auxiliary program that the commander flavors and that kind of thing this document is just one of those things that now it's been revealed that through the Bigelow studies he was government funded and then he was personally funded and then government funded is just one of those things that shake you up because you have this military guy who can't get access to it because of private industry that has these non-terrestrial materials that I can't study it so that's the claim right now give it some time let people dig deeper into this, it's fascinating, man, so essentially you're, you're, you're, you're kicked, you're, you're out of this program you can't work with these manuals anymore They tell you and they threaten you they tell you what you have to do from here on out yeah well I mean the way it ended was I told George Knapp all this and you know he said well let's put it on tape if something happens at least we have a record of that and I don't remember what the impetus was, but somewhereGeorge wanted to pass it on and said, "You know, you make the call." and look if you ever change your mind we won't air it and it came down to the day George wants to put it on the five o'clock news he said this is something important people need to know about and I thought it was too much.
I said it's some kind of crime. I know you have to keep the technology a secret, but you can't not tell everyone that this stuff is happening that we have, you know the actual hardware of another civilization, it's a big problem, you know, probably the biggest that ever existed and George said, you know, today is the day we have to put it on the news or something and when it came time to air it, I changed my mind and said we wouldn't do it and that's what became the famous match. wrestling match between me and George trying to get the tape, but he won because he was bigger. boy so you actually physically wrestled well i think it was more of a tug of war we were i dont think we ever hit the ground but he got the tape put it in the player and boom the five o'clock news on point they were on and then I got a call after that and they said it was from Dennis he said do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now and hung up the phone that was the last communication I had with him and what you happened. since then after that alot of people i know got audited by the IRS folks ja d someone i know had warrants working on secure programs if warrants pulled one of them buddy one of mine that Jeremy knows has a camera on me he'll tell the story soon now that he doesn't have a job up there he was working upstairs at the tonopah proving ground waiting for his clearance to come through and you know they tried to make it into that if they can't catch the person involved they just create a problem for everyone those around them, and I mean it turned out that he hurt the lives of a lot of people that he was connected to and that's an effective way of shutting someone down so you feel like by stepping up and going public that couldn't turn you off, that It was, I mean, that's what I was told and George and everyone you know said that you care, no, you know, since it's public, you know that no one will touch you. and me, you know i fell in love and i wish you wouldn't yeah sometimes sometimes when the stress is just over and people ca do it on your lawn yeah but this is going to make things worse by doing this no, it doesn't make things better. that it's not just people who work in the government who are policemen and firefighters and first responders and doctors and scientists are going to emphasize empathize and empathize with what it must be like to be a person like you in your 20s who gets thrown into this world without knowing it and confronted with one of the most important discoveries, if not the most important, in the history of human beings the big question is we alone is the number one question there are two questions well what happens when we die and we are alone those are the two big questions are correct and if we're not alone and someone knows we're not alone and these some people who know we're not alone are a little clumsy even if they weren't it's a crime I'm still not telling the rest of us but I want to I mean, I don't mean clumsiness in terms of being incompetent, I mean they can't be competent, it seems to me from what you're describing that no one can be competent with this technology. ology like victory victorian era scholars analyzing some kind of nuclear reactor there's no way why do you think why do you think they don't tell us let's assume this is true right now why do you think they don't tell us that our government doesn't it tells us what is your best good let me put it in what you would do if I were the president okay and I get this information what do I do with this what do I do with this is there something we don't know there is something we don't understand there is something that came from another world, we keep it in the mountains and I just want you to know. yeah who's going to win another one is uncertainty and the other r one is what bob and I have talked about a lot without absolutely knowing what to say to people because you don't really understand it yourself even well God what do you say if Do you want to run a government?
Do you want people to do it? pay your taxes and there is something else, yes, you say that you have these objects well with impunity, and yes, someone else, well, not only that, what can you say? How much do you really know? I think it's mainly the technological knowledge that they just want to keep. the secret of technology because there is yes whoever gets this yes you control where you become you literally become invincible once you master the technology you can't you can't break into a field like that so I imagine that It's all science fiction but science fiction becomes science fact if you have real force fields around the planes on the battleships you win you win you can impose your will on anyone and like I said there's a lot more to the story when i was there for the first time. as for the russian scientists on s4, this was early in the project, this was before Operation Paperclip went public as well, right?
I guess that was it. I don't know what the dates are. I don't know the dates about ten years later Operation Paperclip becomes the Freedom of Information Act we say Russia and Germany have Russian scientists yes but I mean a lot of the Russian scientists came from Germany a lot of those Space scientists that work with NASA, they all came from Nazi scientists, so some Russians got some of them. I just know that at some point there was intense cooperation with Raymond, even exchanging some ideas about nuclear weapons and you know, EMP testing and some things that we would never have. discussed with them but at the same time it was the late 80s they were involved in the area in s4 with us and the guts communicate with these guys are you resolving no i knew they were there talk about the communists that were there in the counties and that was back when they were the Commons, yes there were real communists and at some point it wasn't our group but at some point a big discovery was made and this didn't happen when I was there ?
It happened between my trips there and after that they apparently decided it was too cool to share with anyone and the Russians were never allowed back to the base after that but they don't know what that discovery was. he said it wasn't my group so one of the other groups actually figured something out but typical American style is ok this is it as you guys are walking out of here was there any hint that any other government had something similar? no no nothing I made him see that was what always scared me was why if something was so superior to human beings it's almost like visiting an ant colony like why would you go to the Queen I don't care who the queen is I am a human I'm so superior to you ants.
I don't care who they have running their hive. I'm just going to study it. I think that's who got it. it doesn't make sense to me either so they were in the same area or you know one had clues where the others were I mean I don't know you have to fill that in there but you're right I mean nine of them that's that that it's a big dig if it was archeological well one of the most recent recent sightings and these discussions that have come up recently Air Force pilots and Navy pilots have been talking about things that happen in the ocean and that something literally goes into the water or something maybe below the surface think about the water 2004 tick-tack case of nimitz that's when me and george knapp were on the radio twice before the new york times said no ok please of the commander and those pilots there was a disturbance in the su The face of the commander taste of the water visually saw what looked similar through some object, so it is as if he had a coral under the water and it was breaking. mping ticking is doing this crazy maneuver that defies its a gravity propelled says they saw it in the sky before they saw it in the water yeah so there was radar that was picking this up these things coming down from 80,000 feet drop 50 feet in less than a second this is this is actually on the news today there was a briefing so a lot of people get confused.
I didn't do this, none either so it's called a gimbal so there are three videos posted by the Pentagon that are all after the shoe light and keep the volume on fire. I would really pay attention to the source video so it has the ticking which is this object the flavor of the commander saw another pilot film it with a FLIR pod and he's going to but this one you see is really important to the story of bob the gim bal craft was recently tested it's FLIR it's not only definite that it's unconventional from its movements but there's a cold air pocket around a propulsion source so this object incidentally remained immobile for days if not weeks it's on hover you know they found it 11 hours later and they were saying there was no way this thing that uses that kind of energy to go that fast could float the amount of time and by the way you are seeing a very small part of what happened. day this object was not alone and i hope the information comes out and we can i mean i wish i had a video of it.
I'm sure we'd all want to see it, but that's what the gimbal that was the east coast is called, in 2015, the west coast. 2004 was the ticking the disturbance in the water flavor commander believes there was something under the water that was causing that disturbance when the ticking was coming to do it within the people who are studying this who are thinking maybe the system ticking was causing the disturbance but the USO submerged unidentified object that visually saw everything interesting about that is I would love for Bob to describe it that's why it doesn't matter if these ships are in space air or water Why doesn't it matter?
I love when he talks about this. Well, first of all, the flavor of the commander was the Nimitz f-18 pilot who was sent to find out what this is, but it wasn't just that I got a chance. to talk to him recently and it wasn't just a radar image I mean Commander Flavor was watching him for over five minutes watching this as did four other pilots so this wasn't a radar signal or anything I want say these guys were looking at this thing but you know one of the things I think about in the gimbal video the way the ship we worked on flies is it doesn't fly like a conventional plane does and it doesn't fly like a saucer flyer Witter in a 1950 movie flies belly first, I mean he can be set conventionally but he always turns, he doesn't roll, he maneuvers, he puts his belly towards the target and then he moves his car flying with the wheels forward, right , right, I mean you can pick it up, land on the wheels, but at some point when you want to go, you flip up, point the wheels. where it wants to go and it takes off and on the gimbal video you can see how the ship does the roll maneuver and it's really interesting it behaves exactly like the ship I worked on as much as if we had planes and fighter jets and cars of different shapes, they probably have different shapes of these objects that operate on similar principles, but they all have the same energy source, the same energy source and we're also dealing if you think about the laws of technological progression, you know you think about the law of Moore and you think about how things speed up, you have to think that if this civilization is who knows how many years ahead of us, if not even years, I mean, I mean, we're thinking in terms of conventional t erms, such as we see the world, I mean they can be, they can be just superior in terms of their intellect, they have to be, maybe, maybe, we don't really know, the only reason I said go that's because look everyone doesn't necessarily start on the right steam engine and move on to an internal combustion engine and then you know electrical power, nuclear power and go up the ladder where we can't weigh you know the binary if things are true about origin and binary star system and they have heavier elements that we don't have and this element stable element 115 is a natural material maybe that's the first thing they started experimenting with and version of their steam engine their first product was something that worked like that and actually when they came to earth to look around or you know they were amazed at the things we were doing these guys burned things and squirted out the back to move on so right um right you know who says they follow any kind of normal progression like that I thought if you go back to 1400 and then go from 1400 to 1500 you won't see that much of a difference technologically, right? from 2000 to 3000 I guess there will be a sea change well yes the Delta the rate of change is magnificently higher than it used to be so if you think about what they had in 1988 and you think about what they probably have in 2019 logically it seems that they would advance, I think the only question is if they are alive, it is a beingI live in terms of something biological or are they some kind of artificially created creation like the one we're working on, right? now i want to say we are in the middle of working on artificial reality artificial beings sentient beings artificial intelligence there are constants there are silicon based life forms that are essentially trying to create the boston diner was it bosto? n Dynamics of robots company robots yes you can make meat machines so a cyborg or cybernetic organism is just you know that's what a lot of people think they like the gray stuff or you know people call the greys, you know that's how it is.
They were like their rented meat machines, so what you're saying is just non-synthetic, like they didn't even need to be. You know machines well. It seems that they do not have sexual organs where they are described by people who have had interactions. with them they assume these people are not lying right or crazy or whatever they don't have sexual organs and they don't seem to have any muscles it's almost like a correct frame and they have huge heads I mean if you look at Australia Pittacus or depictions of ancient hominids and then you go to humans one of the things you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies ok you see a clear progression of evolution you know where or something like that I would lean towards their organism synthetic because it looks like it was made for a specific task there are no reproductive organs so I mean it pretty much leaves out any kind of physical evolution well that's the bottleneck too our bottleneck is our biological imperative the need to engender emotions fear anxiety all these different things that exist to force us to make sure we reproduce I mean essentially there are human reward systems years that are not needed once they can find a way to make some kind of sentient artificial life kind of thing that doesn't have these biological limitations that we have because of the way these crafts have been reported all these different kinds because it was confusing forever. i thought flying saucers what i heard bob lazar talk about flying saucer but if you look in history people have always reported the weirdest shapes like none of them are the same you know there are other saucers but you got shape of cigar, g Do you know the top hatching?
Do you have orbs? Why maybe they are serving different purposes? They're doing different things, like we're using different tools. long time with dr. edgar mitchell a six year old man who walked on the moon last man to film before he died that's how i know i don't want any journalist to think i got it from anywhere else i know because of dr. He and Mitchell said the same thing, maybe these things are doing different tasks, you know, and that's what I saw if you think about what an alien is in terms of our, you're kind of iconic image of an alien like the Encounters close to Steven Spielberg. from the third time the third kind alien looks like what we would assume a human would eventually become right and if these things are tied up humans are smaller than they've ever been before, weaker than they've ever been been before and there seems to be a trend in that direction and this trend seems to be amplified by our technological progression there is a lack of need for brawn and our lack of need for violence and we are moving in a society to try to get away from all the things that we think or bore and about human beings and the terrible behaviors we have if one day we give birth to some kind of artificial being like marshall mcluhan quote we are the sex organs of the machine world you know one day we will all buy um yeah McLuhan was brilliant and that quote has always been one of my favorites because okay what are we doing when we constantly innovate technologically afraid?
We're constantly looking for faster cars, better computers, bigger screens, faster, more resolution more pixels more this more than higher bandwidth five G 10 G well what are we doing? We are moving towards this in this if you just follow it objectively stand aside, don't get attached to yourself or your civilization, your culture and see what it is. it is that we are moving one hundred percent towards technological innovation if you were to look at this species from afar and if you were not part of it would you say what does this species do oh do things improve things every year hives the same thing you see ten years ago you see a bee hi it's amazing it's great but they're the same they figured out how to make it they make a hive right we don't do that we make better things what would it be all the time and at some point I think technology will merge with us yes and we will because it's already happening yes whatever question you want you couldn't talk to him he will give you the answers in the answers instantly you browse him he has all your phone numbers he has all your contacts you can communicate with people who are listening through him he is connecting us in ways that even inadvertently are haptics of that kind, yeah, it's getting on your wrist too, how many people have seen the Apple Watch? it's kind of a percentage yeah I didn't joke about it last night but I have a little bit about it I do about the integration between humans and technology what would you do if you're a hyper intelligence right would you do the work yourself or would you do it yourself? you c Create some cool things called as humans to do it for you.
Would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to come in with machines and do it for you? If you are a hyperintelligence that has changed a bit as you have described. You probably believe workers well, well that's a great conspiracy theory, I'm not talking about a conspiracy, but it's kind of a conspiracy. but that's the way a conspiracy theorist would see it the way I would see it is like there's obviously a progression in a biological progression there's some kind of integration with technology there's some kind of imperative this need for technological innovation it's inescapable everyone has it and i think it's attached to materialism and in some weird way because so many people work so hard to get new things and they like god that it seems so illogical and absurd and it makes people unhappy and depressions they are increasing but no one seems to be able to stop it like why is that good maybe it is because we are the electronic caterpillars that give birth to the butterfly maybe that is what we are doing very well but our job is to make a kind of cocoon and we don't even know we're doing it while we're doing it do you think a caterpillar too hey caterpillar what are you doing man just doing my thing it's my job i have to do e This could be a natural part of evolution this could be so it's supposed to do this and jump into some kind of mechanized entitlement yes an orangutan who is spear fishing no they have figured out how to spear fish , there is a primatologist. without someone showing them how to fish no they have imitated humans doing it and now they do it but they do it independently they are not trained orangutans they are wild range I think there are wild rats awesome well there are these primatologists I guess. would you call them a primatologist that's a term that's a big biologist biologists who believe that monkeys and chimpanzees and some of the great apes are going into the stone age they have actually gone into the stone age like they don't stay as it was a hundred thousand years ago or five hundred thousand years ago but they are actively using tools and they are experimenting with different ways of using those tools and then they are making tools out of stone they are making these tools out of sticks and they are using them well this could be what happens this could be what happens i mean why else why why do we work so hard i mean i was driving to los angeles this morning i had a doctor's appointment so i was on the 405 at 8:00 in the morning but Jesus Christ like that is so crazy when you're on the 405 in Los Angeles at 8:00 in the morning, you see literally a million cars and it's everywhere you go, there are people, but also I.
I'm in a Tesla so I have it on autopilot so I'm the I'm sitting I'm listening to a podcast I barely have my hand on the wheel I'm not touching these cars that drive me I'm not even doing anything I'm just hanging out It's a lot less stressful. it's like that so it encourages you to innovate encourages you to embrace this new technology I have this giant screen showing the navigation in front of me Oh I'm five minutes early great and I'm listening to a podcast wirelessly it's Bluetooth the screen is streaming from my phone and i pulled out that podcast that came out of the sky today and i'm listening to it and i'm really comfortable in my nice little car driving on the way to the doctor's office this is kind of irresistible yeah yeah it's scary irresistible but is it scary?
I mean, if you were a monkey or if you were an Australian pittaco, would you go, man? I don't want to be a person. like running from jaguars this is life guys life is ru running from crocodiles ain't living in the slums oh there's probably some letter like that yeah i don't think so i think i think when it comes , we will accept it, we will accept it in the same way, we will accept cell phones in the same way. way to embrace television there are going to be some obstacles. I don't even know an email address, man, though there are a few and far between.
Good luck with that. Move to the forest. It's something I think about sometimes when I really understand that Ted Kaczynski was part of the Harvard LSD studies, this has been proven. Ted Kaczynski cooked his brain when he was at Harvard and then when he went to Berkeley and became a professor. His goal was to earn enough money so that he could implement this program and live in the forest and then write his manifesto and start killing people involved in spreading technology. He was expunged from the Harvard records by the w. oh this is something my friend just called me about so there's a private library and they used to print people's names when they were part of a university and he was one of the few people who got cut out of it.
I want to jump again. The only thing Joe I don't want to be too careful with that word conspiracy theorist what I was telling you was we terraform our earth right tariffs when we change the environment we do all this innovation what stops us. thinking that that's not being done I'm not saying that's what prevents us from thinking that that's being done on a much bigger level on a cosmic level you mean aliens coming down doing that to humans so I'm telling you that there's something here that's a fact that there's something there's craft they're here they're not ours they're here so the question is what is it about and I'm just looking at what we do with what you're describing with technology I th I think it's a lot more Probably in the same way that we look at chimpanzees and we look at that they are now in the Stone Age that they are looking at us and that they are recognizing that there is a pattern that there are steps that happened.
I mean, Carl Sagan talked about different levels of civilization and then you know if we don't get past certain levels, we're never going to get to this. I mean, we're in civilization, we'll stay in type zero. yeah looting was an amazing civilization well we're awesome in a lot of ways you know but in that way we're not okay yeah where were the kids who have immense power that we didn't really have? The other thing is that you're using the huge. power that other people have created well, I mean, even when you're driving a car, you hit the gas like you didn't invent the engine, you didn't invent the tires, there's all these things that went into creating this. which is really out of your walking comprehension range, but you still have the ability to use it like a person with a weapon.
I'm just going bang bang bang people. you didn't invent a weapon so like you don't have the intellect to fabricate and engineer and in and manifest these creations you only have access to them because you have paper or your Bitcoin or whatever you're using using a credit card now hardly any you have responsibility you just could we just used these things lightly that's why we know we were very childish in our actions because we haven't had to earn responsibility we haven't had to earn these things that we could have and you've only been able to have them because other people they've innovated and they've spent an inordinate amount of time and effort and they've concentrated in the lab to create these things and then they all put them together and then what's the reason to put them together for good profit what's the reason for profit?
Why are you doing this so you can buy more stuff? What are we doing? What are we doing? We are doing better things. That's what we do. That's all. we need oil why we need oil why can't we just burn wood and stay home why can't we raise chickens and food in the backyardbutt why can't we do what we can certainly do but we decided to make that almost impossible our preferred way of life is to cram everyone into a v a very small area where no one grows anything but grass this is what it is the is the is 20 million people with hard surfaces ISM that's a lot of hard surfaces you can boy if you've got a one acre backyard now one holy look at all that grit this is amazing no that's the dirt coming through this weird Kind of a creation that we've put on top of the ground, but the point is, like in New York City, there's none of that right, you just have, you have Central Park and they just have you human. i have amassed no one is growing anything and then constant work everyone gets up early go go go innovate progress make that money so you can buy more stuff and every year hey apple where is this new phone? pictures and videos and people call you when you have requests to tell you which way the winds are blowing won't blink an eye it's all gone though you know like ten thousand years and the Hoover Dam is going or whatever you know Mount Rushmore disintegrates so it's awesome because we've created that and everything is trying to come through that we keep low maintenance but we're a blink something hits but we don't think that way well you know what You think in terms of your own life, right?
You think in terms of what you want and what you need right now. environment that makes us unique saints on top of that with existential angst and fear, so what do you do with that with water with the previous antidepressants? trying to figure out what reality is it's just you're in a fucking convertible spaceship spending a thousand miles an hour hurtling through infinity there's no point to this just keep doing keep doing things and then one day they're going to be able to flip that switch and this life will be born out of innovation and thought and progress and technology and most likely that's what we're seeing these things are what you're watching mm-hmm I'm not watching them but yeah some are hinting that we are.
I don't think they are us, but I think they are what happens when things go on. It's not us, like we're not monkeys. I'm not a chimpanzee oh that's cool like they're from here it's your idea no no that's what happens across the union yeah this is what happened this is what you know I went to see Brian Cox. this amazing live show with Robin started where they have these LED screens, they're huge screens with high resolution representations of the cosmos and one of the most amazing things was that it has this very large scale image of the universe and it shows all the individual galaxies in the universe and it keeps moving through all these galaxies it's in three dimensions and it's amazing but what's amazing is its relative uniformity even when you know, I mean you're obviously looking at an incredibly small representation of something that's immensely big, like a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars that you are seeing. it's like this little dot but this little dot flying through space surrounded by other little darts with very similar distances yes Himanshu yes Mike if we see uniformity in that way in terms of distance between cows like so many galaxies it's so similar that can vary slightly and that slightly can be hundreds of millions of light years, but there's so much uniformity, why don't we just assume that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere and that all of these things that you're seeing are so similar, you see systems of binary stars you see individual star systems like I'm sorry but there's also some speculation that the earth and our solar system was once a binary star system I mean that's one of the speculations about that object they find outside the Kuiper belt, which is ten times bigger than Earth, they think it could have been a star at one time, but this uniformity you see, why is it?
Won't we think that that has the same biological implications that there's some kind of biological uniformity and that this happens given the right set of circumstances yes, you should tell them some of the things that you? I've read that you don't know it's true, I mean, if things were true about the propulsion stuff, I mean, anyway, well, what have you read what you saw? um, you know what you're talking about, drop the beans Bob, I've got to poke the bear here, get some more liquor, yeah, well, I mean, again, all I could verify was what was in my hands, where they were, you know, there was talk of weapon systems that there were different projects project Galileo project s idekick was supposed to be weapons applications from the craft project Looking Glass had to do with weather any effects of weather on the ship now I don't think so We're talking about making a time machine like in science, but we're talking about you know little distortions, intentional time distortions and how they can be used, you know it wasn't part of a weapon as well.
Pro, how are you informed in this phase? I don't really like to talk about it because I don't have any information on him and it was only in little briefings that he told Commander Flavor that what he saw might have been time dilation and not because gravity affects time, you know, the space-time. I'm sure you've heard of it and you know what Commander Faber saw when he was in the f-18 approaching, he said it, described it as a ping pong ball in a cup and shook it from side to side other. it was moving so fast now obviously if there's something inside th here it's going to get battered to hell but you know my point was that well one of two things either there's a gravitational envelope in there which negates any effect of inertia or you're looking through a distortion field of gravity, so you know as if you're looking. on a hot freeway and you see you know an optical distortion going through there well the same thing happens in gravity and the ship may not be moving like that it may appear to be because you are seeing you can only see it through the field , so you can be making much smoother movements.
I'm not saying it's that, but it has to be one of the two and the thing shows up 60 miles away. They noticed it on the radar 60 seconds after leaving the commander's taste, but it was at its cap point, which is the next point it was meant to go to 260 miles away and in 60 seconds on the radar, the same object ends there so it's going a mile a second no I think radar picked it up in 60 seconds yeah it might I've been there instantly bu yeah we don't know psychic time no one knows it's all too its cycles like radar cycles, min doesn't sweep a flat array so you just know it scans around it in a random place, the spy-1 makes the really cool gift. the whole loop is already good the point uh the point is the ship moved to his next location before he even knew where his next location would be jesus and i mean it's well documented so that's quite a piece of information shocking what's fascinating to me also is that you were discussing this about the way this reactor worked and these things weren't really connected no nothing is connected there isn't any wiring that scares me charging your iphone , you know, yeah, yeah, I mean that's that. yes I know again, but that's just a simple electromagnetic induction input.
Tesla, the scientist, had this concept of right. Although heaven and Westinghouse was like getting out of here with it, like when anyone could just pull the electricity, yeah this cabin meter, yeah they couldn't, we just talked in the car trying to chill them out you know we're talking. Tesla, you know you couldn't measure it, I didn't know how that all came down, so that's funny, bring it up, yeah, that doesn't mean who knows what would have happened in terms of innovation if he had been allowed to go ahead with it. I probably wouldn't have computers you think so I'm pretty positive ok I mean forget about microelectronics ok this is throwing huge amounts of electromagnetic energy into the air and yes we could turn our lights on wirelessly but would there be if there is no radio communication the interference would be something we could be overwhelming it would induce electrical currents and anything with a small wire so IC transistors would fall apart before they were tested for operation so it would be From It would somehow choose us, yes it would have stopped us in our tracks, we would have that would be great if you could turn on lighters and heaters all over the place without wires, but it would stop modern electronics and we became dependent on it. it would almost be like our reliance on fossil fuels even though it's destructive it's very hard for us to get off the nipple it would have changed the course of how it developed which is very interesting when you talk about it a star system civilization didn't .
Not even starting with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally on your planet and they're like cool antigravity that's pretty amazing well the fact that I think it's important that that actually happened yeah it could have been stopped dead in its tracks for a reason. wow and i just think it's incredibly hard for us to imagine technological progression in any other timeline than what we've experienced yeah that's hard if we imagine what this alien race must have been like and uh I mean god alone so I can see something I like. I mean, obviously, we've seen it in different forms of life, just like we see the life of certain beetles compared to the life of certain fish.
Very different existence. Very different life cycles. octopus yes octopus i mean we see all these different variables in terms of biological entities on earth but we don't see them in terms of technological innovation as we are the only intelligent ones that can innovate we have intelligent creatures but they re in the ocean the only other thing that is like us are dolphins and orcas and whales and they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment and subsequently because they don't have the ability to emit and manipulate their environment we put them in fish tanks and we get in the tank, we do some tricks, you know?
The only thing he saw on the ship if we were considering Bob's story the only thing he saw on the ship that he related to seemed like what a human could do was this honeycomb hatch and I always loved it because you're kind of obsessed with this thing that you can recognize a focus on that because it was the only thing i understood how it worked what it was and it was was the access to the level below and it was alright you know if you take a six pack of beer and pull out the cardboard dividers mm-hmm it you put it on the table you can put a lot of pressure on the top but if you push it from the sides it collapses flat mmm so it was kind of like this honeycomb that was essentially kind of a sheet of metal and you could walk on that top layer , but if you took the corner you put your finger in and pushed it collapsed and I made a tackle hmm so I thought it was really unique.
I had never seen that before and it was the only thing in the crap that made absolute sense to me since oh we can do that and all of that is like a hatch. there is some discussion about the materials that were used to make t The Craft I'm sure there was, but that was a metalworking division that had nothing to do with us. She never received even the slightest bit of information. I don't even know if it was metal or ceramic. I think it's okay. the line between the two now one of the things that has happened to you that has allowed people to discredit you is that obviously there has been some sort of effort to erase your past, yes some sort of effort to erase your educational history your employment history at los alamos in fact the only way your employment history was proven at los alamos if someone got a list from a directory of past employees and read it and you were on that list so it proved you worked there even though people were trying to deny and they were trying to use that as a way to discredit that they never worked on the cottonwoods they weren't real scientists what was that experience like i mean of course we are talking about the 1980s 1990s , when he could get away with something like that.
I think I think George Knapp was the first to find out that, I mean, he saw my birth certificate go missing, he went missing, yeah, there was no record of you being there. it was scary for her because he has a real family you know he's a real person it's scary for her but if the Los Alamos thing really shocked me and that I was so convinced now this guy never worked here don't be ridiculous and George came back and forth you know because I got the letters in the world yeah one time I mean it was ridiculous but luckily somebody came up with a phone book from 1982 I mean and also originally told you you know what when I worked there I was on th The front page of the newspaper so they could still archive, you know, break, bring that from the archives and you meet Bob Lazar, a physicist who works here in Los Alamos, oh, at least there was somethingthere, but somehow George found the phone book. and then George, then Bob took George with cameras to Los Alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew there and I said look come in I'll show you where I worked we'll go in we'll meet people and George went with me and you.
I don't know the door of the place, oh yeah, you know people and you know, and Los Alamos was also the place where they had the machine that could read the size of your digits. No, that was awesome, that was s4. so now this was in the '80s and this is in the '80s where when you talk about this people like that don't even exist yeah okay what was it? It was a way that you know this is before fingerprint scanners and you know and anything from anything a high resolution scanner at that time s or what it was was a device that had a little image of a hand on a plate glass with pins so you could stick your hand in there and there was a bright light on top of it and a sensor underneath and when you put your hand in there the light would turn on and measure the bones in your finger because the light shined through your bones and apparently the length of the bones and your fingers are extremely unique and easy to measure and they use that when you put your hands in there the light would come on and your plate would come out there it is oh there it is that's it and I tried to describe this to the people and they said it's the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard and I said hey my badge came from that thing I put my hand on it the badge came out and that's how I was able to open the doors and get into s4 and you know and they all discredited that they said it was ci ence fiction and
jeremyyou found out i found it through a good friend of mine d tyler rogue away and he had some good sources inside area 52 where they also used them for the stealth program at the time so now i have all these people who worked inside who you know said only if you're right what programs would we use this technology?
They didn't actually keep it for very long at the beginning of the biometrics, so I was able to reveal it in my film. I kept my mouth shut until I showed it to Bob, you know the movie is my first. the time he saw it it was as seen in the documentary that's his genuine reaction giving goosebumps that was a great idea the way you did it thanks man because you know what guess what i'm actually trying to see if he's saying the true that's how I started, you know I started, so it was really cool to see that you can see it.
The actual reaction of him has not been verified by other people. me where they are used and how they are used d and send me photos I received many photos of Danny Matteson and how they were used well they are not how they were invited to use yes but no the most recent one was much more recent than I thought in another country , but yeah, that technology was used, so the funny thing is that this technology even in area 52, where they would use it for Tonopah, one of the guys who will be on camera when he interviews me, was a technician. for one of these and he hated them because they were really bad they always broke down and never and he was a tech to him and he won't tell me where if he worked area 52 it's probably Tonopah it's far apart even on base but yeah so there was that, yes, there is his education record that was also like what happened with that, well, that disappeared, you also know that I have never gone I have never gone anywhere to educate myself I have never gone I never attended any class at Cal Tech i never attended anything at MIT and you attended classes at those places i attended classes at those places do you know someone you went to school with? yes I do and they verified that they went to school with you well I give Jeremy some names but people do I am the reason I don't say these names publicly every time I mention a name someone gets and you don't want it to be yours yes, yes, of course, but how is that experience?
See your deleted birth certificate. Seeing your job is terrifying. Absolutely scared, it's also the fuel used by debunkers, the so-called air-quote skeptics. I don't like the term skeptics. I want to say this, probably because I really only said it in private. be a skeptic let's be objective and i think there are a lot of things you should be skeptical of i think you should you should look at things and look at things from a hard line scientific perspective but the skeptics idea is the problem with ie you are always looking for things to be yeah and i think that's dangerous because i think some things aren't it's confirmation bias on the other end what you did is i need to take something square and put it in a round hole no no matter what, and I find a lot of them lazy, a lot of them lazy thinkers, right, because they're always putting it in that box instead of saying hmm instead of just detaching their ego, they're trying to be playing a game and the game is calling i want to call and i'm going to line up all these reasons why it is and i'm going to ignore anything that might be contrary to that definition yeah that happens every time i think i'm going to trap him in something that you know throughout this process um i found dr.
Crangle, came forward and said that I was in a security briefing with Bob Lazar, the physicist at Los Alamos. He officially spoke to me. Now the other people I spoke to, well I won't. working there, so that's the difference, right? What's that? What can the public have? or even if they are not working there they know they want to live their lives. I mean obviously people have seen what Mike Thigpen has been through to you after 30 years. yeah really if you look at all the information you know about my accounts that's verifiable it can't be a story anymore it's past that point yeah I mean it was my big pen I mean how come he was an assistant ?
Then Mike Thigpen was the one who did the security clearances to go to the hook one of the guys who was a guy you work with said he did the right thing and George Knapp you know George didn't believe him George put him through four polygraph tests right he tried to see man this is a big risk sounds interesting but let's see if he's telling the truth. One of the things was that Bob said there was a guy named Ike Thigpen. He did security clearances for the base and that's a strange name. It's very specific to 30 years old George found this guy in this weird apartment I didn't even know it was my digging pin the guy wouldn't ghost talk to me and I'm totally into it for 30 years he used Facebook and Google to search for image matches via his children.
I was able to find him after 30 years and spoke to him three times on the phone. He lives on the east coast. He almost goes on camera with me. He confirmed that he did security clearances for the base in 1989. He confirmed that he remembers Bob Lazar and what you don't know if there's a handwritten note that a friend of yours has from Mike what I would do um I'll give it to you later I don't i know but that's real that's real so handwritten oh this is what you know this isn't it when me when you're when they do security Clanton cleara nces they check all your friends and yeah yeah so this is for Bob and I had people come to me for a friend of mine who is serving and they were doing a security clearance for him and even though I'm like the UFO guy they did you know the fbi come and visit my house and make sure they talk about my friend and raise a little card and when my wife told me to leave because she didn't know who they were they left me a little card it's super cute Now, back then, it was a handwritten note and his friend has it for him that you haven't seen and, oh, OMG two decades so if you're listening what is this ta card?
It's just a little handwritten note with Mike Thigpen's signature card like a like a postcard like a piece of paper that he left on the door saying when is Bob coming back or whatever it says so it's just another funny little thing I found the guy who does security clearances and he admitted to me that he did it and he admitted to me that he was dodging George Knapp because when George said his name in the writing on the news he dropped his fork in his steak on his fries or whatever and he's looking at his wife he was in trouble his name was never supposed to come up they're like there's just some kind of security clearance but you don't want national attention associated with anything bob has to say but anyway , this unique name that Bob said for 30 years and the guy goes to George Knapp.
George could prove that he existed. In fact, he talked to me. Man. He spoke to me three times. he almost went on camera with me, he's crazy, what happens after 30 years? You just get more information, well, that's one of the reasons why when you and I, Jeremy and George Knapp, we had that conversation on the phone, yeah, I said I think. What we can do with this podcast is important. I really do. I think it's important that people hear this from you very clearly, very concisely, and if you go through all the information that you've said today. the things that t The detractors have said that if you look at all the recent new evidence that is coming out and all these very high level people in the military and the government who are discussing this, it gives you a lot more credibility than you would have had in the nineteen when this came out look yeah you can't ignore it don't worry just because you don't like it anymore that's why I thought it was important that you go out and refresh the memory of the world and let people know and like I said I've been and I say I'm a fan of yours but I guess I'm a fan of yours as a human being of a fan of yours but I've been following you for decades I've been following the story for decades I mean I'm kidding I have V Chester Bob as much of the world, yeah it's crazy, well anyone who has any sort of vested interest or just a fascination with UFOs has followed your story because there's no one else. no one else coming for this one guy said i worked underground with the aliens i got my hand shot off so a bunch of wacko guys underground there are bases they are shooting lasers through the earths crust and moving at the speed of light there a lot of those guys look schizophrenic look crazy they could even be disinformation agents they could be people who are designed to muddy the waters they force or has it happened that esau was getting ahead of there now it's amazing and by doing this what you're doing you're providing an opportunity just for Bob to tell his story, believe it or not He can tell his story.
It's amazing because more people will come forward now that they are involved in these projects. They will show up with you. They will introduce it to me. So what you've done here is give them that opportunity if they need it. and it's amazing, I just want to say Bob just don't show up, no, don't show up - Bob, why were you gagging at the beginning of this? he's so gone oh my god we here how we did this why you ask him why because obvious anxiety the guy is gone 30 years of being persecuted his birth certificate i want to hear him say i love them of you to say that you did.
I got out, calm down, yeah, well, I get it, it's hard for you to bring him here. or get the attention of a bunch of y'all and that's a good point so explain there's no money from this and I didn't even let you buy plane tickets for me to come here or anything I mean. anytime, like when Jeremy previewed, I guess the movie in Michigan, I mean, it raised like a couple thousand dollars, I made sure that two thousand dollars went to science programs at local high schools, his Dirty money, I don't want to touch it, I don't take money from these things and as for attention, I hate attention.
I don't like being on shows. I just want to hide in a corner and do my thing. So I had enough of hugs as a child. if you think we somehow got done with this, then you have to tell me why we got it right, you've done a great job of making sure you've got your bases covered in that regard, that you haven't benefited from this and, as you said, you've donated whatever money came to science programs i mean it doesn't make any sense otherwise i mean what your but i got out of here is what i thought i was going to get out of here when i saw a documentary that what you're saying makes sense it doesn't make sense it happened exactly as i said it happened joe i believe you in closing is there anything else you want to say no i can't think of anything other than don't come and try to visit me ok i know you have paid a huge personal cost to get this information and I mean maybe you didn't understand what that cost would have been when you first came forward with the story but over the last thirty years it's been huge and it's been great and sun or i want nna thank you for that and thank you for all these people who wouldn't have gotten this information and wouldn't have had this story otherwise.
No thanks Jim, thanks and thanks Jeremy and once again the documentary is available on Netflix. now it's called bob lazar area 51 and flying saucers ok that's all friends good night
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