Joe Rogan Experience #1254 - Dr. Phil

in five four three two one is hanging listen we are live live dr. Phil, well, someone's calling you, what's going on? I was trying to find nothing between all the years you've been doing your show and all the years you start. Tips, how did this get me outside? Girl, how did this happen? the different shows you made a monster I know, I mean, it's my moment of infamy seriously, this girl comes with her mother and her mother actually brings her to a course and if she's a train wreck and we work with her and the we send to this. ranch for like four months, she goes for a long time and makes a complete change, does a great job, they say she's become a leader, she's working with all these girls doing a great job and then she graduates and I remember this last shot when we do this, this piece on the ranch, she jumps over this fence and he smiles and everything and shakes it all up one night at home with his mother one night and his mother finds people who are criticizing her on these social media platforms her mother Tracks him down, finds out who they are, gets their phone numbers, calls them, yells at them on the phone, insults them and stuff involves the daughter, one night it crashes, so they come back for a follow up as if they didn't knew, a month or two later. and when they come I tell them, okay, we'll bring them back and they leave.

I have the audience completely empty. I don't have anyone there to touch. I mean, 250 empty chairs, no one in the house except my mom and daughter, that's a good move. They go, where is everyone else? Well, you don't need anyone, we're just here to talk and you know, keep things running smoothly and they were shocked, there was no one there to show off or play and there was like 15 minutes. interview, they had nothing to say and they left and then this phrase that became a you know, whatever a meme or whatever they call it, yeah, it just went crazy and what she was nominated for a Grammy or the sad Siri , I'm serious.

I don't take any credit or blame myself you know I just did what I could and I'm saying you're saying I wish everyone the best maybe she'll turn so maybe I'll grow her and turn her into something positive. but I hope well that's a very good attitude very healthy attitude for you but it's when something goes viral like that something strange that for some reason gets caught and removed doesn't make any sense it's a very strange thing that does it doesn't make sense for it to be on a billboard at sunset a giant billboard really huge huge billboard it's like one of those billboards on the side of the building you know they put the graphic on?

It covers the whole building it doesn't make sense seriously seriously there are people curing cancer I can't find it with both hands exactly no one has any idea who won the last Nobel Prize but you know you know more power or me if she can become something positive, do you have talent? Have you ever heard any of her music now? I have no idea, I've only seen it on your show, yes, I appreciate you mentioning that, but it's so strange that a train wreck can, for whatever reason, become known and then all of a sudden it's gigantic, they say someone hired and you paid your millions of dollars seriously, yeah, you got close to a million dollars from a makeup company, really, yeah, well, there you go, I mean, if that's happening right, what would be your advice? , then your advice would be, hey, get yourself together and stop. being crazy, well, she's making a lot of money being crazy and her opportunities before were probably very limited, well, they had to be and what I hope now is that this, although it's certainly a quirk, what I hope now is that she's surrounded by people mature with business heads on their shoulders and development people who will actually guide this in a way other than 15 minutes, you never know, that's what I hope, well everyone thought the Kardashians were going to be 15 minutes, they've passed 15 years, yes, but there have been people who make fun of them and there are some good things to make fun of, they do things to make fun of, but there is also a very smart business and brand that has focused on that 100% and now you know, and I was.

In fact, she's very impressed with her because she went to the White House to talk about proper prison reform for people who are wrongfully accused and who have been in prison for too long for things they didn't do and that's something she's really passionate about. , Yeah. I know Kim and she's actually a very nice girl, very intelligent and, as I say, they've made a very brilliant mark and it certainly paid off. It's so fascinating when something catches that girl, what's her name? a sign girl uh Danielle hold up goalkeeper or something yeah a lot yeah because she didn't know where to catch me outside girl but if she didn't say that phrase yeah and she just said that, I think to her grandmother or someone in the audience, I know, I don't even checked in with us at the time, wow, it wasn't a featured line in the interview or anything, it was just glossed over, someone just picked it up and then it became a meme, yeah, what a strange world we have. living itself, no joke, what is it?

I mean, it has to be a lot of responsibility to try to give people advice and try to straighten out their lives and show them the flaws and the mistakes that they're making. Yes, it is and you. I know people ask me sometimes they say you know Dr. Campo our problems do you think the problems are as simple as you imagine them and the truth is I don't think the problems are simple at all in fact I think most Sometimes the problems are quite complex, do they have many layers? They have many different origins and are often comorbid, many things coexist, so I don't think the problems are simple at all, but two solutions are often simple, don't you think I mean it's like the old joke?

You go to the doctor and tell him this hurts and he says: Well, I didn't do that anymore. Yes, you know, many times it is very simple. Someone will have something complex that comes from childhood or maybe they have a drug history. or they have had a trauma in their life but the solution is to change their behavior i.e. stop rewarding bad behavior, choose a different path in life, simply behave according to your path to success, sometimes the solutions They are very simple although the problems are very complex because at some point point, you have to stop focusing on the why and start focusing on the what, instead of why it happened, what am I going to do to change it?

Sometimes the solutions are quite simple, but implementing those solutions is usually very difficult for people to change their lives, change their patterns, and patterns are the key, you know, nobody does anything in the pattern if they don't get a reward and if you can identify it, that's why ideas are so important, that's why I think it's the number one result. If someone is going to respond to talk therapy, for example, if someone can identify what the benefit of it is, where can they really realize it. I am doing this repeatedly and my benefit is that I don't have to work or be held accountable. for this either I'm escaping responsibility here or I get attention or sympathy or if they can figure out what their reward is and then they can control that, whether it's for themselves or their kids or whatever, if you control the currency then you can control the behavior hmm, yeah, it just seems like people have this comfort in their patterns and even if their patterns are self-destructive, even if it's drug abuse or alcoholism, or those patterns are comfortable falling into those patterns, it seems very compelling. for a lot of people yes and rewards don't necessarily mean it's a positive reward of course I mean the reward for taking heroin as you get high and therefore high for a while that's not a reward positive, but yes it is a reward, and if you take drugs and you don't get a job and you don't take care of your children, it is a reward that you are not doing the things that you need to do and that you should be responsible for.

It's a pathological reward, but it's a reward anyway and that rewards you even though it's a pathological reward it's something pathological you call it a reward and if you can identify that where they say look, I'm, I'm not doing what I have to do and I need to stop rewarding myself that way and consider myself Canty to be there for my son. I tell my son I'll be there every day and I don't show up because I'm high, so you know. I need to stop doing it, no I need to not let myself get away with it and instead force myself to show up for the child when I say yes, I say I will and then you see what's in the eyes of the child you share the story with.

experience

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Now, that becomes your reward, then you will start showing it to your child, yes, how many people follow your advice? The most productive guests are the ones who don't get it because the mail we get will say, "Oh wow, that guy didn't get it, that woman didn't get it, but I saw myself in them and I'll never tell." that again mmm I saw them being such a correct fighter or I saw them being so stubborn or so oppositional and I heard them say things that I said and they left and they didn't understand it, I understood it.

Never do that again so sometimes those who don't understand anything while they're there are the best teaching tools for the millions of people at home watching yeah that's interesting isn't it when you see people fail? and you say, oh okay, I see that in myself, yeah, I just have to not do what that guy does and then you also see the stubborn stubbornness that some people have that they don't listen to advice and you can clearly see how. they do it. They're ruining their lives by not being honest, yes, and sometimes the story we might have is maybe extreme where you say I don't do the six things that they're doing, but I do two of them and they're very salient to me, so I understand that I'm going to continue to do that, so that's where I think you get a reward and you know, people go and find these things on the Internet.

I mean, last year, you know, we have a channel where we posted, you know, different. clips and divorce shows or parenting shows or whatever, and we had over 2 billion views, you know, last year, people just went and found that information and watched it, so I know people are searching for the information and looking beyond the program itself. I know they must be looking for information and we just don't have a good delivery system for mental health in America, so I think they're looking, I think they're hungry and they're looking for it, there are so many people out there that are trying to do better, they're trying to get their lives in order and you know, shows like yours and you know, just the advice shows people that are providing inspiration and knowledge, so it's a very important thing for people, especially people who don't they did it. growing up with wise parents or maybe a good support system around you, you know, I think that's true and yeah, I grew up with an alcoholic father and it was a pretty violent home and he was a really bad alcoholic and I know having grown up in that you end up with what I call a damaged personal truth and you feel second class and the problem that children create and because I know I did it and I do it and I see others do it is that you compare your personal truth with what you know about yourself you know how you really live and what's really going on you compare your personal truth with everyone else's social mask because you go to school and you know it well I know that the windows were ripped out of my house last night I know that the utilities were turned off and I know that There was a big fight in my kitchen last night and the kids sitting next to me he has a shirt that is completely ironed and his face is shiny and clean and you know he looks like he has it all. together and you compare yourself to that person, that child, and you feel like you're second class and the problem with that is that we generate the results in life that we think we deserve, so if you think you're damaged, do you think you're second class you will generate results that you think a second class person deserves hmm, so if you don't fix your personal truth, you will spend the rest of your life saying, well, you know, those really good results belong to someone else who isn't. to me, that's for someone else and you're going to settle for second best and not get what you could otherwise generate for yourself if you don't fix your personal truth, so I think a lot of people are struggling to find a way. to get out of not feeling good about themselves and damaging self-esteem, damaging self-esteem and they don't really know where to go, so that's why I do the program.

I don't look, I'm not under the misunderstanding. that we're doing eight-minute cures if they're bad, come on, yeah, we're not going to do that, but I think if you can point people in the right direction, if you can raise their awareness, you can get them to think about it and create a narrative in which they at least say: you know how I feel about myself. I mean, are there things I need to figure out? I mean, what am I telling myself? If you can get them to think about that, then you know that maybe you've done something, yeah.

You know, Tony Robbins once said that these are long-term incremental changes and the way you have to look at it is if these two ships are going in a parallel direction and one of them just shifts five degrees over time. It's going to be a very different place than the other ship that goes the same way she always went, yes, and itimportant thing to realize also is that next year will pass, whether you are doing something with your life or not, I mean, we are sitting here right now at the end of February and the next 10 months will pass, whether someone is working to make changes or not, and they may think you know, oh my God, so far I'm overweight.

I'll never have it under control or I'm so behind on my bills or I'm so depressed or my everything is so out of control well you know what you make those incremental changes and then you know pretty soon in December Hey, I'm so much better and I was end of February, so you made small changes and everyone added up and if you don't do it by the end of the year, you will be getting deeper, so every little bit matters, yes. I tell people to write things down. I told him that one of the best ways to do things is to write things down.

Write down what you are trying to do. Write down what you need to do long term and what you need. I need to do it short term and cancel a checklist. Force yourself to be responsible. Yes, the difference between a dream and a goal is a timeline and responsibility. Yes. The responsibility is gigantic. You have to have someone, whether it's yourself, a friend or someone. that's going to say look, did you do what you said you were going to do at this point and if you don't hold your feet to the fire because I mean just sit around dreaming one day one day I'll get a different job one day.

I'm going to change this, well someday on a day of the week, you know it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, are you saying look on your counter some days they're not there, so you have to say that Alright? I'm going to take this little step, buy this little one here. I take it this little step there and then pretty soon you know we don't jump tall buildings in one jump we take it floor by floor that man, although all the years that you've been doing your show you've developed a real community, right, I mean , you, you have really made an impact if you stop and think about all the people that your programs touched and all the people that have listened to your advice and all the people that have taken that advice and done it. small incremental changes in their lives and they set those goals and held themselves accountable, that's a pretty significant thing, well I hope so.

I mean, I think I know that there's a stigma attached to mental illness and that really bothers me. There shouldn't be. I mean having depression. or anxiety or whatever to me shouldn't have any more stigma than having a knee injury or a kidney infection or diabetes, but yes, there is a stigma attached to it and I've tried to talk about it in a way that It's okay to talk about it and don't be ashamed of it, it's okay, if you have anxiety, you have PTSD, whatever, it's okay, let's talk about it, let's get help, put it behind you and move on.

I mean, it's not something you should be ashamed of. What do you do when you talk to someone who may have depression? Do you try to get him to exercise first? Do you try to get him to see a psychiatrist right away and take medication? Do you take them case by case? Well, I do, but you have to address it. Everyone has a

phil

osophy about it and I'm not saying that your mind is better than anyone else's, but I do have a

phil

osophy about it and I'm very slow with medication. I mean, I think you already know.

I think you use drugs for biochemical replacement. I mean, if for some reason your body doesn't produce enough of something it needs, then maybe you support it biochemically in the short term, but you know. I look at depression and I think there are many ways to overcome it. but I see it as if it were exogenous depression or endogenous depression. I mean, does it come from the inside out or the outside in? Is it because you are reacting to something? I see a lot of depressed people which, in a sense, makes that right sense, I mean, you look at their life and say well, if you're not depressed about this, you should be.

I mean, you lost your job, you got divorced, your health is in the, I mean, you should be depressed about these are external things, so you don't need a pill. I mean, putting someone in a chemical straitjacket because their life is falling apart. What the hell is that going to do? Yes, but that's just putting glasses on them where they can't see you. I would rather they behave in a way that is appropriate for success and tell them what you are reacting to and depressed about. Let's put it on a to-do list and start like you said, write it down and start crossing those things off.

What is an action plan for change? This action plan to actually change the next thing and then when you start doing that, you usually see their mood improve. Many people who are depressed or simply react realistically to an unpleasant circumstance in their life, are not necessarily. A mental illness is just a realistic reaction to a bad time in your life, yeah that's a good way to put it, it's that you weren't in a bad state watching this, there could be something wrong with you, yeah, you're in denial, yeah I mean, if you got divorced, lost your job, your health is in bad shape, your kids are away from you and you say I'm fine, then you're out of touch with reality, right?

You should be worried. that's why and I think giving someone a pill to mask your feelings about it just keeps you distracted. I don't know your pains, a good motivator. You know, I grew up in Texas and Oklahoma and I don't know that you've ever done this, but we were I used to spend my summers in the thriving metropolis of Mundi Texas, have you ever heard of Monday Texas now it's mu in its a you no an O em you nday has like 2,000 people, but in the summers It would be hot in Mundi Texas, no, when I say hot, I mean you look out into the backyard and your dog bursts into flames, that's what I'm talking about, like this that we would go to the pool or something like that barefoot and you would arrive halfway down the road. paved road and you look down and you're, I mean, like a saint, it means your feet are on fire, so what are you going to do?

I mean, that's painful, you're going to do one of two things, or you're going to do a u. -Turn around and get your butt over to the side of the road and get into the grass or you're going to run the other way and get off the road and get into the grass, but you're not going to stay there in the middle of the road and you're going to melt to death. knees pain is a motivator pain is not always necessarily bad if you are in pain it will motivate you to move to change something and combine it with drugs to relieve that pain with drugs is not necessarily a good thing it is wise advice and I wish more people would think who were particularly more medical.

You know, I have so many friends who have gone to the doctor because I don't feel very well and almost immediately they want to throw it away. them in something, yeah, like not being smart all the years that you've been doing this, have you noticed that depression was as prevalent as the term depression or what it doesn't mean? I mean I don't really remember it existing when I was a kid, that was discussed the same way it's discussed now, it's discussed now the same way people discuss all sorts of other ailments, is it just a matter of consciousness or Is it just that people are thinking about it in different terms now?

Well, I think it's part of the narrative now and I think with social media, with the Internet, not just social media, but with the Internet, I think there's a lot more things in the nomenclature and there's a lot more awareness about it, but I think it was just as prevalent in the '50s and '60s as it was now, but in the '50s and '60s there wasn't a psychologist on every corner, and now there is, and there were no subdoctoral licenses, so I mean, what? what does that mean? Well, back then you had to have a doctorate or a doctor as a psychiatrist to see patients, now they have marriage and family therapists, they have licensed social workers, they have different levels where you can do independent practice, so the number of people has expanded. that they can provide services and some people think it is a The good thing is that some people think it is not.

Overall, I think it's a good thing because I think 58% of our rural markets today have no psychiatrists available and about 50 or so don't have any mental health professionals available, none, so there's just no one available. . to help people in outlying areas, so I think the more people you can bring into the profession, as long as there's a degree of competition, the better, but you know, I think it's always been prevalent. I just think people didn't talk about it much. How much is just something that they swallowed or took to church or you know, when you see, you know all these people that are taking medications today.

I mean, how many of these people do you think should legitimately be taking medication? I mean, is that something you can? Evaluate, you know, I can't answer that in terms. I mean, I'm sure there's research on how many people take medications, but in my personal

experience

, most of the people I see taking medications, in my opinion, most of them don't need them. the medications they are taking now and that is just anecdotal, in my opinion, you asked me to handle your research survey or study to support it, I can't give it to you or I can't direct you to one.

I only tell you after 45. For years in this experience, I see people who are on medication, usually they have seen someone for six or eight minutes and they have said, you know, I really feel a little depressed or sad, yeah , here's some Prozac, here's this, here they give it to you and they don't even really ask why and they just give it to you because medicine has become a high-volume business and that's not necessarily the doctors' fault, I I'm talking about the way it's funded now and Medicare and Medicaid have to turn around and burn it. them and yes or no you can stay in business and then it's a high volume business and then they throw pills at them because they don't have an hour to sit down or they don't take an hour to sit down and talk about let's say, well, let's find out what's going on, Is there any reason like I said?

If this man has five parts of his life that have gone down or a woman has three or four areas of his life that have really gone down in quality. so they should be in a bad mood, so why mask that? Let's come up with a plan of action and change it so that most people I see take medication, not all, but most people I see take too much medication in too high doses or I don't need it at all and it bothers me a lot. polypharmacy, that's where I really get frustrated. Yes, I think what you're saying is a very common sense approach, but it's not the norm today.

No, it seems more. people are treating this, you know, cite the problem of depression as if it were a medical disorder like diabetes or something, when you need medication, yeah, and you reach out to a lot of people, it works. I mean, yeah, you give people a mood boost and they're like, "Hey, I'm sitting down." better and then maybe they change their life maybe they move their life in a more positive direction they can stop doing it because one of the things about depression, for example, that you are using as an example is that you suffer from what is known as psychomotor retardation. there's a decrease in activity level and I think the old sayings get old because they're profound like you're not going to take a hit if you're not swinging mm-hmm well if you're depressed and so you think slower, less actively, you behave Less actively, your chances of being rewarded decrease, right? you don't go out and mix socially as much you don't apply for jobs as much you're not as productive at your job as much, so you're less likely to have strokes, you're less likely to be rewarded well, maybe you'll go take a pill and it'll lift you up the encouragement for you to become more active, so now you can start getting Pat's on your back, you start. getting people more involved with you to improve your mood and that fixes it so you took the medication short term you recover and you're fine short term it may be an alternative but I've seen people everything from opioids to mood elevators for years and that's where you lose me, yeah I don't get it, yeah I know people who have been on things since they were 5, yeah, and they're 40, yeah, and then you have a trash diagnosis. like a DD and ADHD where you know what used to be a spoiled brat is now a DD or ADHD right, oh they start prescribing these neocortical stimulants like ritalin and if you give a stimulant to a kid who doesn't need a neocortical stimulant, you're You're really going to knock them off the charts now because you have a normally active brain that you're now making overactive, so you're creating a problem that didn't exist before you gave him the medication because you didn't.

I didn't make the proper diagnosis, yes, my former neighbor had a situation like that. They had a child and the child had a lot of energy and they weren't paying attention to him, so they started medicating them, it's incredibly common, yes. You can't chemically care for your children and who knows where these children will be in 20 or 30 years. I mean, we're just looking at you, this wave of people getting treatment,these ailments, air appointments and then we don't see how all this. What happens in the long term and how much damage we are doing these people know and to be fair, at the other end of the continuum I have seen some people who are clearly psychotic, schizophrenic, delusional and without medication they are absolutely impossible to cure. achieve it, but if you give them antipsychotics and so you can reduce their delusional behavior and their hallucinatory behavior so that you can now have a meaningful conversation with them so that they can respond to the talking therapies, that makes all the difference in the world and without those antipsychotics I would.

Being a little lost, yes, without them, so there are some medications for some disorders that are absolute miracles and without them you wouldn't be able to do the work that you need to do to get the person back to where they need to be. Yes, without a doubt, I mean there are Definitely, there are a lot of great pharmaceutical medications that help a lot of people. Do you get pushback from a lot of these positions from the established medical community? Sometimes you know it, but you know it mostly when you talk to people about it, thoughtfully, they agree with what I do.

What I'm saying is that most people will agree that you have to be careful when prescribing medications and that medications are administered too easily. I mean, that's certainly what we've seen in the opioid epidemic right now. Opioids are so easily prescribed right now that there are enough opioid prescriptions for every man, woman and child in America to have their own bottle and if you refill that prescription once, if you're taking those opioids at seven days, your Your chance of being addicted per year is 1 in 12 and if you renew it if you're still taking them at 30 days, your chance of being addicted is 1 in 3.

Wow, and these things are written with too high a pill count. , so the addictions we are seeing are completely different. A type of addiction that now comes out of the suburbs and they take it for a while and they are very expensive and after they take it for a while, the heroines are cheaper, so they got off the opioids and started taking heroin, so you're saying soccer mom. heroin addicts that you didn't see 10 years ago because they start taking prescription opioids and then they can't afford them or finally the doctor stops them but they are addicted and they start taking heroin because it's cheaper, no this is obviously a very disturbing pattern , but where do you see it going when you look at the future and it looks bleak in that sense?

I mean, I've known several people who have had real problems with pills. You already know the problem. I think what people have is they think because a doctor gave this to me because it's on a projection platform that it's safe and your body doesn't know if you got it in the back alley or if you got it from a doctor, you still have the same addictive quality and I think it's at the epidemic level and I've testified before Congress about this and I think there are multiple levels of responsibility at the manufacturing level and at the prescription level and at the educational level so that people understand.

I think everyone has to participate. and I'm doing everything I can to raise awareness about it also when you testified before Congress what the reaction was, they are very aware that this has become a serious and serious problem because the cost, as you see, The hand of lost work in the workforce amounts to billions of dollars. You see the demands on the health system that this is creating, young mothers with children and babies who are born addicted to these opioids. I mean, the numbers are skyrocketing, so I mean, it's putting a financial strain on the healthcare system that it just can't handle, then it starts costing money and it starts getting the attention of politicians, then they start saying " okay, now we have to start doing something" so that they understand that there is a problem that could do it, although once it seems that the genies come out of the bottle, clearly we have to start educating people and we must demand that manufacturers to start labeling this much more clearly, doctors have to be much more conservative when prescribing, you know?

I just had shoulder surgery and I took like an opioid, a pill that they gave me in the hospital and after that you can manage it with Tylenol or something because the surgeons now are very good with arthroscopic surgeries and stuff, it's a lot. A minor insult to the body that was ice and tylenol. You can handle it if you focus on it a little bit and I'm not saying if you've had surgery and you have organic pain, for God's sake. For love, get ahead of the pain and stay ahead, but when you can, as soon as you can, let it go and understand what's going on, yeah, there's no point in being a macho, we don't need a leather strap between you and your teeth.

I'm having surgery, I mean, if it hurts, take the pill, pass, but realize that the moment you can get away from it, you need to get away from it, but you know you don't need to be given a supply. for 30 days. They need to give you three or four days and then you have to go see your doctor again and if it's still a problem, discuss it. I mean, that's what I think needs to happen, is just be much more conservative about what you're giving. The problem is that these pharmaceutical companies make so much money, yeah, you don't want to, they don't want to back down, that they have private jets and yachts to pay for, yeah, and they're starting to close some of these, they had some. from these pill clinics in pain clinics in Florida mm-hmm where you could go without an x-ray without an MRI and just say you had back pain and there was a doctor there who would give you a 9 count prescription on the spot, no questions asked 90 mm-hmm and you walk out the door and go straight to the next one, yes, because there was no database or database and that doctor could be a foreign doctor who flew from abroad and wrote all the prescriptions during the day. flew again at night and now they're closing those things so the hammer comes down well, one can only hope when you've been doing your show for as long as you've been doing it and I'm sure you've gotten a lot of loot, so that makes you want to make a podcast.

Why do it well? My interest has been knowing, he says there are a lot of people who get their information on the Internet by getting clips from the show and that kind of thing. What's clear to me is that the population is changing, you know, I'm an older guy, but older people Young people get their information in different ways. You know, go online and the digital menu has to be available and accessible. there are a lot of people that way that you wouldn't make it to the other side, there's a whole population that's not going to watch open television during the day, yeah, and there's a whole population that's watching open television today that maybe isn't in the digital channel. space and if I can achieve a crossover between the two and you can get a larger audience to spread your message, then you know that's what you're doing.

My goal is to spread the word and spread what I think is important to say. I mean, I'll shout it from the rooftops if that's what I can, if I think it's effective. I want to do anything that's scalable to spread the message and for me, I'm doing a few different things on the podcast and I'm doing on the show on the show I have a fact pattern in front of me I have a story I have a family I have an individual that has a couple of specific facts and I'm dealing with that fact pattern on the podcast I'm not solving a problem I don't have anyone there who has a problem that I need to solve I'm just talking to people who I find interesting and I can talk to them about what I want to talk to them and discuss things like what you and I are talking about right now.

I think this is what we've been talking about is an important discussion and I appreciate the opportunity to have that discussion and I don't have time. do that when I'm talking about someone who's sitting there saying, "You know," I think my son is on the verge of an overdose or he's really in trouble and I have to focus on that. I don't have time to pontificate about things like the opioid epidemic or the philosophy of pills versus therapy and things of that nature because I have to give my full attention to the story in front of me in a podcast environment like we're doing now.

I can talk about things that I think people need. to listen, I think if they don't, they don't have to listen, but if they're interested, it's there, so I like that it's more free and that I can talk about the things that I've been talking about. people, a champion like I talked to Tony Romo right after the Super Bowl about you know you come from Eastern Illinois University, it's like nine students or something, it's kind of a small school and he happens to be the quarterback of the United States team for 14 years. all kinds of records and then he goes in the booth and becomes the number one color analyst on television, I mean, champ, champ, champ, why do you know what that is?

What do you attribute that to? I like asking those questions, yeah, listening to people talk, what do you say? to young people about that, what made you a champion, are you going to let your kids play soccer with all the CTE and stuff? What are you saying? I'm out. I like having that kind of conversation. I did the same thing with Shaq and Charles Barkley and different ones. People, what did he say about what makes you a champion? You know, for him, he said he's got this, he says no, he wasn't the Swagger type of guy you know, he came off as ar

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t like he was going to own the field. and owning the game but inside he said he had this absolute drive that if he didn't win he couldn't live with it it's like someone thinks he played the game someone beat him that's just the idea that that person is gone home thinking that they were better than him, that they could beat him, that he just couldn't sleep, think until he came back and owned it again and got back to it.

He said that he was only motivated to win, by what he would mean he said. he was going out at one in the morning in the dome throwing a pass that route was intercepted, they attacked him on that route and you would be trying to find out why on Thursday in practice he saw what he needed look why he didn't see it on Sunday and he would analyze and analyze and analyze until he could get there until he could do it until he could win it he just had this drive to win that super unhealthy obsession that everyone shares that Michael Jordan He had that, I mean we've talked about it several times on the podcast .

Many people who are extreme winners are psychotic in their obsession with winning. Yes, that's all they want to do and if they lose, it's almost unbearable. I can't deal with it, yeah, and I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, but the differences between winners and losers, their winners do things that losers don't want to do, yeah, they'll get up in the middle of the night. they'll do this they'll do that they're sorry more they just do things losers don't want to do they'll pay a price losers just don't want to pay yeah and the loser says it's not worth it and every winter he's been a loser oh that's what became a winner, yeah, if all you do if it's a journey through life is a successful solo journey, God, how boring would that be, I mean, you think it would be great, but I don't keep eating ice cream for every meal. about the fourth meal you're going to be thinking God, let's kill something and eat it right it's like what were you talking about about depression about how bad feelings will motivate you to change if you have a bad feeling if you are If you're in a bad state in your life , pain is an incredible motivator and even though it feels terrible at the time, it can propel you to a new and better life because you never want to experience that again and make you grow and be. a better person, yeah, and you have to decide what your currency is, I mean, because you say you know you've done your program for a long time and you probably don't need the money, but there are different types of currency, right, I mean no.

It's like that. I always work for some kind of currency, I mean, every year when we finish our season, I take a month and let everyone unwind, you know, just relax and rest and do whatever they want and then we start meeting. and focus on well, how can we reinvent ourselves for next season? How can we tell our stories better? How can we expand our horizons? do things differently to improve our game because we are competing with ourselves, you know we are category friendly alone we are the only ones who do what we do and we have been number one for a long time because I have a very hardworking team but it is in us no one else try to do what we do So we're kind of competing with ourselves and we're working really hard to figure out how we can have a bigger impact.

How can we say this more effectively? What techniques can we come up with that would make this even more powerful? It's and that's what you know, that's what really makes me move well, it's very revealing, it's bad, that's why I imagine you move on to making a podcast where it's less restrictive and more open and you can do whatever you want, but that's how it is. It's cool that after all these years doing that and giving advice, you still find this passion to improve it and do it from an angledifferent, yeah, and you know, I'm so excited because we're about to finish, you know? our season 17, 17 seasons and that's a lot, the number of episodes you did up to three thousand and I did Oprah for five years before I was great, and that's 22 years and then your watch and then I renewed for five years and I I moved to 2023. recorded before you sign that like, what am I?

Well, I'm just going fishing. You know, Robert and I thought about it, but well, what am I going to do? I mean, I don't do it, but you enjoy it, obviously, yes, I enjoy it, it shows and you know, I've always told my team what we don't want and don't want to achieve. Boring, right, and if it becomes formulaic for me, it will be formulaic for the viewer and I don't want that to happen and you know, we do a lot of news and stuff and that keeps it fresh because you don't know what we're going to be on the news tomorrow. , so we do most of the really big news and we don't run the news, we go after the headline, we talk about this, this is what really happened, like Paul Harvey said, here's the rest of the story.

Yeah, just what you read in the headline, here's the rest of the story and I really like doing that. I really like getting into that and when you do this on your podcast, one of the beautiful things about that is you know. You can explore these ideas without commercial breaks. You don't need anyone to tell you what to do. You can just watch whatever is interesting to you. This is how you choose the topics and the people you are talking to. Yes, like this week. I had Pam Myers, who wrote live detection. I've spent a lot of money on a book about liars, my detection, yes, and I've spent a lot of my career in deception detection because I spent a lot of time in the litigation field. own interrogation techniques that's how you knew overwrite yes yes it was when she was doing that uh the meat industry was suing her yes the Amarillo Mad Cow case yes yes they sued her for a couple of billion dollars and I I represented her in that case and that's how we met and I mean, I had Pam and we've both done a lot of work on deception detection and interrogation techniques and stuff, and it came right at a time when you know Jesse Smollett It's in the news. about whether he was telling the truth, whether he wasn't telling the truth and then here we have this conversation, what did you immediately think when you heard that story?

I was very suspicious when I heard this, yes, Jaime and I shut it down once the cameras go off. he's out of that guy that's real no one looked too much like a movie yeah it was a bad movie yeah I mean it's nine below zero and two people are waiting just hoping he can make it to 2:00 A.M. yeah I mean, so strange, you know he was a suspect and you know he's entitled to due process and he's going to get it, yeah, he's going to get it now. He says he has some untreated drug problem, so he's trying to find some way to explain his strange behavior, but there are very specific live behaviors that people can't really control, like what kind of things, for example, when people are desperately trying to convince you that they are telling the truth, many times they will do what they are doing.

They call convincing statements instead of just telling you what they did or didn't do, they will make convincing statements as if you knew me. I like it when someone says who stole the petty cash in the office. I think you know me. I give more money. Dono. more money than was stolen, delicious, you know me, I mean, I was Employee of the Week class. They know I'm convincing them there's a good guy and that's not what someone does if they're wrongly accused. No, what did someone do if they were wrongly accused? If you are wrongly accused, they will look you straight in the eye and tell you I didn't do it, and if you ask them what you think should happen to someone who did it, an innocent person will tell you: I think it should happen. be found I think that someone who is guilty should be held fully accountable to the extent of the law and will say well, you know, I don't know, I mean, people make mistakes, you have to give a guy a second chance, does that worry you at all? train that?

You're basically training Liars by telling people these kinds of things and someone who steals money you know might say, hey, it's not for amateurs and when there are some things you can tell people to be careful, but One of the things What you do if you suspect someone is increase their cognitive load during the interrogation and there is no way you can prepare for that. How do you do it so well? You plan a mental virus, for example. Who am I in the virus? Like, yeah, this is a Perry Mason guy, yeah, what would he like if we're supposed to be missing some money?

Yeah, and I said, is there any reason why someone would have told me that they saw you near that cash box the moment it disappeared dump dump town okay now people talk at 125 words a minute they think between 12 and 14 hundred words a minute now if it takes you five five seconds to tell me no you took the money who because if you were nervous right now if you didn't take it you know you didn't take it you don't need to run scenarios through your head to think who could have seen me you know I was I didn't see anyone you know what could have seen me what did he do you know, but if you didn't, it doesn't take you a millisecond to say absolutely you've never been wrong before when you see someone on TV and you say, "I think that guy is guilty." and he is innocent or vice versa." Sure, because if you really want to know for sure whether someone is guilty or innocent, you need to invest a lot of time, you need to get a baseline of what they normally look like, talk about how they feel, and then prime and know that baseline.

I didn't need to compare how they behave on TV, so just by walking in front of the screen and watching it, you might see things that would normally belie their behavior, so it could be part of their personality, so if you're really going to do a trial, you have to spend a lot of time and figure it out and what you need to do before you decide that you're going to be a human lie detector is do your homework and, you know, try to figure it out objectively before you figure it out behaviorally. I mean, you should do your research, find out if someone took the money and find out where they were and look for fingerprints and do this and that.

I mean, you should really figure it out objectively before trusting these. things and so on, unless you get a baseline and you relate to them individually and spend a lot of time, then you can't be yourself, you can't really be sure that you know if they're telling the truth or if it would be funny if it were like that. easy and that some people are quite obvious. Yes, I once heard a police officer say that when people are guilty they tend to beg and cry and then when they are not guilty they tend to get angry when they are guilty.

Accused people who are wrongly accused are usually furious from start to finish. I mean, every case is different, but if you are wrongly accused, that person is going to be angry from the moment you accuse them until the end because it's like I'm self-righteous like I didn't do this and you say I did it and you fuck yeah, and they don't step back and when you see people, they make these convincing statements and they're begging for you. believe them and then and every time someone says now in all honesty, usually the next thing that comes out of their mouth is a lie like no, no, Joe, honestly, unlike everything else you've been telling me, I mean, what? why are we putting this in parentheses? one out is fine or if they call on deity oh I swear to my good god yes God as my witness mmm and you know I don't know if I haven't done what I said you had to do with Jesse Smollett but I do.

I know when he went to the Fox set he said everyone knows me, I swear to God I didn't do this um and I mean, there were like three or four of those kind of statements in two or three sentences, well, my favorite. was on stage who called himself gay to park that's enough for me that's a little narcissistic it's a strange thing though like there was another one today a guy set his house on fire and thought about Chicago and said he was a guy gay said it was a hate crime and they caught him, there's a lot of that going on, you know, a lot of fake crimes, very strange, so sometimes people accuse people of something and someone says why would someone do something, why someone would become a victim, there is a lot of influence and being a victim, especially today, there is a lot of attention, a lot of love.

I think there are a lot of false accusations and false attacks, and a lot of them are real, but man, when they're false. combo, it just doesn't do everyone any favors, well there's a lot of research on why people do these hoaxes and particularly the hate crime hoaxes and one of the main motivations of course is sympathy and attention and all that, but one of the interesting reasons why What I've read in the research is that they really feel that it's emblematic of how the system treats them in general. This is just a dramatic example of that.

They feel like they treat me this way anyway, so they just discriminate against me. suffer prejudice, I'm belittled, this is just a focused example of that so I'm not really lying, I'm just representing how I'm treated in general, oh wow, so you justify it in your mind if you're just going to bring all this treatment in an example to focus on and while it's a fake deal, it really is a truthful representation of what their life is really like, they justify it that way, oh how strange, you know, yeah, there's some deep psychology out there. no, that's stretching, it's weird, we like it when you write it like that, put it in your mind that way, yeah, wow, it's weird too because it gives people this is a giant public show to watch, you know, and I hate it.

That family, what a talented young man, I mean, isn't that how many times I've seen him? I don't watch that show much, but the times I've seen him there singing and assuming it's his voice and he's singing with a lot of talent. Young man, I find that a lot of talented people are crazy, well you know, someone said that someone said that really talented singers and actors were the weird high school kids that we are in drama and we're all sure, although yes, various levels are a madness, obviously not. It's all tricky, but you know some of the brightest actors are completely crazy and that's one of the reasons they're so good at acting because they can see my wet body.

My friend Wayne Federman did something about he's on stage and he's like, guess what, it's not normal to be able to just cry, yeah, he's like, you can just cry and pretend something's wrong and cry, that's crazy, they're crazy people. , yeah, and you can't really go to a certain place. Don't you have a little of that in you? Yeah, my dad always said that when he works with patients you'd say there's something about that old man that I can't stand. You say you can't see it. in them, if you don't have a little bit of that in you, yeah, oh, there's a hundred percent truth, that's what drives me the most crazy about weak people.

I'm so terrified of seeing weakness and and and just being pathetic, I'm so terrified of seeing that in myself, I see it in other people, it just smells, I smelled like a drug sniffing dog, like, oh, there it is, yeah, You smell like desperation, yeah, what makes you do this? Why are you doing a podcast? I've always been a charlatan, I can never shut up, I love to talk and I've always been fascinated by human beings and their lives, just talking to people and finding out that the guy from before was Yohan Grillo, who is a narcotics journalist. he's a narcojournalist in Mexico, I mean, I couldn't wait to talk to that guy, oh yeah, let me, what a life he's been living in Mexico for 18 years, he's from England, I'm still alive, no, unfortunately, that's something true. there, you and you know he's telling me about friends who have been murdered and you know he's been in difficult situations several times and you know I'm fascinated by pip, people and what they like to do.

You know I'm fascinated. For athletes, I am fascinated by physicists. I've always been very curious and I've always recognized that everyone thinks about things differently and that I can take a little bit of something from everyone, whether it's from a book or a conversation. with someone I can gain a little experience a little knowledge a little knowledge yes, naturally you are very curious because I listened to your interviews and naturally you are very curious, you do not strive for the next question because you really want to know something that makes it much easier . I am very lucky to have found this.

Yes. I stumbled upon doing this kind of thing. No, it wasn't like that at the beginning. At first it was just a horse with friends. and it's slowly but surely as the podcast became popular. I thought, I wonder if that guy would talk to me and then get people to connect and then they turned into more of these long, interesting conversations, yeah, yeah, and if you're curious about human functioning at all, human nature, there's an endless menu of things you can talk about, I don't care who it is, you could, you could pull someone out of a car on the street, yeah, and if you're curious, you can talk to them because everyone has a different view of the life, everybecome a hero.

It's very difficult, it's very difficult to overcome your memory. being a coward, well, and I'll tell you why I think that's true, if you want to know, please, I mean, maybe don't go off on a tangent, come on, no, I think we learn about ourselves and you know, everyone talks about it. self-esteem and self-esteem, but no one ever talks about what it really is or how we get it and I think I think of it in terms of self-attribution because you know how you form opinions of other people, like you look at this guy and maybe you work with this guy and then you look at him. over a couple of years and maybe this guy comes to work every day and he shows up fifteen minutes early and opens the place he prepares everything he makes the coffee he has his desk ready he's all buttoned up and man, when the bell rings he's ready to go go and you just found out that this guy is ready to go, reliable, never fails, always there, so you attribute certain traits and characteristics to him based on your observations of him and your experience of him.

Based on that, you assign certain traits and characteristics to it. but I say that it is exactly the same way that we form our self-image and our own level of self-esteem, we watch ourselves go through life and we watch how we handle certain circumstances and situations and that is why I say that excess is a of the most insidious forms of child abuse known to parents is not the worst, it is simply insidious because if you pamper your children too much and do everything for them you never let them watch themselves dominate their environment you never let them take a step back and say wow, I did that hmm, I built this I overcame that I managed this I did that and so we in the same way create our own image and level of self-esteem we see ourselves overcome the third grade we see ourselves facing a bully we see ourselves handling a test with information that intimidated us or watching ourselves make it to the little league baseball team and getting a hit when we needed it or watching ourselves get on the debate team and successfully argue something, whether academic, athletic, or musical. we watch ourselves do it and then we go back and say hey, I did that.

I take credit for the ability to be able to hang. I can do this. I can rise to the occasion or we watch ourselves fold up like a tent in a wind storm and say you. I know I can't get out, I don't have it and we make those attributions to ourselves and so we shy away from the challenge for the rest of our lives until, like you said, it's hard to get over that and something pushes you up until you finally notice yourself. yourself overcoming something and I think that's how we form our level of self-esteem and our identity about who we are and I don't think most people think about that you look back and say okay, how did I become that?

Joe Rogan, as I sit in that chair, you have a self-image, you have a level of confidence and ego strength, a level of self-esteem that is attributable to things that you have seen yourself do or not achieve, not achieve, overcome or whatever. throughout your life. life and I think to know yourself you have to know what those things are. I think you're absolutely right and I think for kids who are involved in things that are going to test you it's very important to give them this opportunity to realize that there's a line between success and failure and that you could get over that line, you could have success at something and watching kids, that's what I think sports are so important to kids, I think, and that's one of the most insidious things about having these participation trophy for kids is worth it no one wins the game yes everyone plays but no one wins we don't keep score why do you plan yes I mean that dish is considered an environmental non-event yes I mean it doesn't contribute anything to your definition it's just something to do it's also psychologically it's pampering it's very harmful to your potential education that you would get from that situation the bad feeling you get when someone scores on you is a motivation for you to be better on defense yeah, you know, I think fooling the kids when we do that and of course you have to play with everyone.

I understand that not everyone is meant to be an athlete, so okay, look, do something else, yes, be good at what you are good at and if you really want to do it well. You've got a long road, it's a greased hill, yeah, start running, yeah, not everything is for everyone, so find what you're good at and see how you make it in that lane, you know, that's like I can, I can't carry a melody in a bucket. Well, I can't even play any instruments. I can not sing. I can play a radio if it has a big on/off knob.

That's it, so I don't try it. I mean, I'm just not good at it. so I get into areas where I can do things and watch myself in that, but I think kids are cheated if you don't let them watch themselves, face adversity and completely overcome it, and it's an interesting lesson too. learn that life is not fair. I mean, if you're a kid and you're playing basketball with a 15-year-old LeBron James and you're my height, you're like, uh, yeah, this isn't going to work at all, yeah, you're looking at a towel boy here. This is not happening, yes, and you have to be able to understand and appreciate it and, conversely, if you are very physically fragile, you know that maybe wrestling is not for you either, maybe we need to do something with your body before you. participate in any type of combat sport, you know, they did an experiment in the sixties, they did something called teaching machines, have you ever seen that no, it was little your time, but they took the students to the class where they put them ? the steps to learning the information are so close together that there was never an experience of failure, I would say that the war of 1812 occurred in 1812 and the following would say that the war of 1812 occurred in Blanc you Phil in 1812, I mean, come on, plant in flowerpot. you could do it well, so they put it together and they taught you the information and they taught it to you based on criteria where you mastered the information, you had it 100 percent and they said, wow, this is great, everyone learned it, so everyone they did a hundred, they all got the information, they really learned it, there was no doubt about it, they learned the information and did very well and then they took him out of that program and put him back in the regular classroom and the first time they got to the questions they didn't know the answer the first time they didn't get a hundred they fell apart like a cheap suit they panicked they didn't know how to handle adversity they didn't know how to handle it when they didn't have the right answers they didn't learn not to be perfect and that's why they scrapped the whole program because they said you can't do this because that's not the right way to go in life and if I mean you're not teaching how life is, The Real World Works, you might as well teach them to go red and stop at green and then give them the keys and turn them off in life because that's not the way it works and those kids were completely screwed when they entered a truly competitive world. environment you can't succeed on your own yeah, it doesn't make any sense it's not healthy it's not good for you you don't learn from it I mean, if the whole idea about school is that you're supposed to prepare kids for the future they're supposed to. that will teach them not only information but how to learn and how to improve, yes, and that worries me.

You know, I read that story not long ago when these students I think it was at UCLA Law School. complained and got a professor disciplined or fired because he demanded they accept a counterargument about something controversial like Ferguson. He said: I want you to know, I know you all have this point of view now. I want you to prepare a report. argument for the other side hmm and everyone said that bothers us we just can't do it and they went to management and complained wow that's crazy because as a lawyer you may have to represent someone who has already done it . something you don't agree with if that's what you want to do for a living, right?

I mean, are you kidding me? They were like a necessary therapy. I wonder what the hell happened here, oh my god, that's so crazy, yeah, that's crazy, that's crazy. You know, yeah, well, there's a movement in this country right now that is the social justice movement and it's leaning in that direction where people don't want to see things as they are, they want to see things as they are. I want them to be, yes, I just don't understand you, you can't legislate that everything is going to be the same for everyone because not everyone is the same.

Sorry, they are not equal, they may be equal in terms of their value as a human being yes, but they are not equal in mathematical abilities they are not equal in the speed at which they run they are not equal in creativity they are not equal everyone has their own value but that doesn't mean they are marketable The skills in an open society in an open market are going to be the same, no, it's ridiculous. I used to have a joke and one of my specials, so two specials ago there was a story about a woman who watched the White House.

She was the only guard at one of the gates to the White House and some crazy guy burst in and knocked her to the ground and just ran around the White House and was running around inside the White House for about three minutes before she finally left. The US Secret Service agent on duty tackled this guy. I saw what was happening, this guy was running through White, he tackled this guy and the joke was that people think a woman can do everything a man can do. I say what a woman can do. everything a man can do is that true and a woman, he was Lin, that crowd at the Comedy Store was like, yeah, I'm doing good, that doesn't make any sense, here's why it doesn't make any sense because a man can't do everything man, I can go look.

I met Shaquille O'Neal and her penis is where my face is and if the White House is experiencing a Shaq attack, I'm the wrong person to save the world because he'll run me over. See, but if my wife and my son are guarding the White House, guess what I'm getting into, okay, I love my family, but if it's between me and I'm like there's no way they can stop me, I love them. . death but I'm a man and they are women and if there's a woman guarding the White House I don't care who it is I'll pick her up it's not going to happen this is crazy but someone had the idea that they would put a woman in charge of a very physical work.

You should have a giant man with a violent temper and he should be armed. Okay, because this is the guy who keeps bad people away from the president. Yeah, I just don't, I don't understand it. It seems like you have to find your own way. I mean, yeah, you don't want to put me in the NBA. Well, yes, the physical things, particularly women, and then there are the mental things too. Look, I'm terrible at math. It's okay, if everyone has the opportunity to do it. "Work at CERN, right, everyone has the opportunity to work at the Large Hadron Collider, including people who have no idea about physics.

We're going to have a great time making these equations work. Yes, that's what I mean with finding your own lane like you can." I don't put two and two together and get five every time. I'm just not good at math, but I'm good with words. I can talk. I can read fast and I can understand well but I'm NOT good at math so I got into a Lane where I talk for a living I read I talk I watch Alice a non-quantitative teef I can accept that I'm not suitable for that I mean no I feel bad about myself because once you do something and If you're good at it, you can accept not being good at other things, it's a lot easier if you find something you're good at, whether it's gymnastics, singing or painting, it whatever, if you could find something you're good at.

It will give you a feeling of self-worth and you won't need to be good at everything. Yes, you can accept and enjoy other people being good at things too. Yeah, you know, I said it before. Dad was an alcoholic and he compared me to that kid because he had a damaged personal truth, but I found a bargaining chip because at that point in my life I was a pretty decent athlete for this little school I went to, so that was my currency. , yeah, now it didn't matter what was going on at home because I got beat up for being able to jump high and run fast at school, so that became my currency, so now when I compared myself to him, okay, maybe my home life was not. as good as yours, but I could run faster and jump higher, so that became my currency, so now I'm fine, that leveled the playing field for me, yeah, and you all would like it if you said: Find what you are good at at any given time and do what you want. you are good, yes, find something that you like, find something that you are passionate about and that you can also excel in and if you can figure out what your calling and your hobby is, you love doing it and you get paid for it, then you are doubly blessed, yes , you did well because you enjoy doing this and it works and that's good, yeah, you get lucky breaks, yeah, but that's boy, that's luck, yeah, it is, and if I just think, if you're in your life. and you don't have something that you're passionate about, I mean, and I don't mean this in a cliché way, if there's not something that you wake up doing every day and there's nothing in your life that you're excited to do.man, you need to go back to the drawing board, yeah, because if all you're doing is just grinding it out, you get up every day, go to a job you don't like, do tasks you don't care about, and come home. a house you don't want to go back to and wait for them to do it again the next day you're burning up daylight what the hell is existence that's right, I just don't understand that, that finds something now that I don't understand Don't worry if it's gardening, music, art, athletics or something like that.

Find something that you are excited to do, yes, expose yourself to different things with the same purpose of finding something you love there is something out there yes, there is something out there I guarantee you something yes there is something healthy it is not illegal it will not be a high risk there is something that you can do that won't kill you or put you in jail that you can be excited about, yeah, and I think one of the most important things to do when you're a parent is try to expose your child to as many different things as possible. to find them for him, yes. and I had two sons, as you know, and you know one of them very well, and I did it when I was a kid because my dad never took me hunting a single day in his life, he never took me fishing a single day in his life, she never took me camping a single day in her life, she never took me to the lake, she never took me skiing or boating, so iris should do all those things, you know, she had no idea what she was doing doing, but I took him turkey hunting, duck hunting, deer hunting. skiing snow skiing camping I did it all and to see what they liked let them choose you and your boy, when you don't know what you're doing as a parent that's a yes I mean little things like you go camping and I don't realize that placing your can on the side of a hill, even if it's eight or ten degrees, is a bad idea.

Yes, Lee, you have to get to flat ground. It looks flat to me, but I spent the night trying not to do it. rolling down a damn hill doesn't look like it was tilted but it was but you discover these things as you go but I was glad I gave them those experiences so they could choose and they did and they will finish this summer they liked something, it didn't go well. I don't know his two children, but I love Jay, yes, yes. Jay loves you, he really enjoys spending time with you and traveling with you and yes we have had a lot of great trips, yes he is an amazing guy, he really has a lot of fun, yes he knows how to have a good time and he says the Same thing about you, he's, you know how to have a good time, yeah, yeah, well, listen, man, tell people how to do it. age your podcast we're going to get it right, fill in the blanks and that's ph IL in the blanks and yeah, I guess you get it everywhere.

Right there, oh yeah, handsome bastard, yeah, look at that, I mean, how about that? I'll do it right, I'll clean it up pretty good, I don't see the good thing about being bald is that you look the same all the time, yes that's true and you save money. with shampoo you save money on shampoo and I have been bald since I was 12 so my hair really fell out very early. Wow, I remember playing college football. I took off my helmet and it looked like I had an animal there. What my teammates say What the hell is in your helmet?

It's my hair. Shut up, I don't know why, but it just fell. I guess they took it away. Well, a mustache works too, yeah, well some guys can't rock a mustache I'd look a little creepy with one, yeah, well I try to keep it where it doesn't look like total porn, how do you do that? You have to accept your weaknesses, you know, I mean, I remember when I wrote my first book about Oprah. she said you won't have any trouble finding him he has a big bald head right in front so I guess you know he'll make it a trademark because he was hard on you yeah the start I got. no complaints, yes, oh i heard you, she treated me very well, yes, it worked very well, thanks for inviting me to my pleasure, you have to come to mine, absolutely fine, thanks man, dr.

Phil ladies and gentlemen