Joe Rogan Experience #1035 - Paul StametsMay 01, 2020
and we're live okay Paul first of all welcome thanks for coming here and you're probably one of the most sought after people on the internet I've ever had so I feel good about that and I'm honored that it's the first. man who ever wore a bowler hat, okay, it's actually a hat made of mushrooms, yes, it's made of this Amadou mushroom, it's called foam. Pretty momentary, oh I was on birches all over the world, but this is an example of why I think they are shamanic plants. Mushrooms become important, there are a plurality of benefits, so this mushroom is a fire starting mushroom that allowed the portability of fire.
There is no doubt that we came from Africa, migrated north and discovered something new called winter. Oops, this allowed for the portability of the fire. You can fluff it up. This mushroom extinguishes the embers of a fire inside and carries fire for days. If your clan couldn't rekindle the fire in Europe during the winter, you would die, so when you do, this was done by some ladies in Transylvania, yes, and it's a wooden cone, well, but when you soak it in lye water, You know, ashes and water delaminate on this fabric. Let me feel that it is very soft, it is also called German felt, it is extremely flammable, so it revolutionizes the war because during the Napoleonic times, this is the punk that ignited the gunpowder. even the Chinese invented, you know, the Chinese invented gunpowder, the Europeans and they had the rifle, so this loud barking Flint fires the guns to ignite the gunpowder, this feels amazing, it's the highest you can get to get one piece, that's a big question depending on the size of the shell trees in Beats are much larger than birch trees, these trees grow larger naturally, so the bigger the shell the more fabric you can tear, but this mushroom is made of mycelium and basically that fabric is a cellular tissue called mycelium and this is what I actually have.
I have one that caught fire because he was going to be smoking a joint near me and the embers from the joint got on my hat, they immediately light up, no, it burns very slowly, so it's a wick, it's great for delayed explosions. because you can light this thing and beekeepers for hundreds of years use this to smoke bee hives because it's like we could light it now, I mean everything with a wave of the BIC and this thing will smoke completely in about 10 minutes and turn nothing in nothing in white ashes Wow, your fire alarms can go off, yeah, and with this thing, this bigger piece, they would hollow it out, put an ember in there, what they have, they'll have to blow on the ember.
Hello, well, you can blow a little, cover it and then put it in your pocket. The famous Iceman who was found on the border of EA and Austria. He had it tied to the right side of him, which is an important position. you know the things you need, like your knife, the things you know and the things you want to make sure you handed it with your right hand, so there's an example: we have a threat of knowledge of mushroom use that goes back millennia. and most of those threads have frayed or broken in the chain of knowledge, but this is one of the threads that did not break and it is significant.
I think we were much more dependent on mushrooms and when we were forced people than now. apparently in the cities, but this circle closes very quickly. Well, mushrooms are weird because some of them are incredibly edible and nutritious and some of them I'll kill you and sometimes they look a lot like each other. Well, this has to do with the mystery of mushrooms. and I think it also talks about the Michael phobia, the fear of mushrooms, um, our Gordon Watson first coined that term, but we think about it in your visual landscape with animals that you see for months, years and plants, like that that you already have a very important factor, but mushrooms that appear and disappear in four or five days some of them can feed you, others can kill you, others can heal you, others can send you on a spiritual journey, so to have something so powerful and at the same time time so ephemeral, it is natural for humans to avoid that. which they don't understand out of fear because they don't know the difference well, you know, 23 primates consume mushrooms, humans are one of them and that speaks to a prolonged and sexual use of mushrooms that goes back to our evolutionary primate. tree for a very long time how many species of fungi are there, you know you asked me that question five years ago, I would have said 1.5 million and now we are about five million, it is just being estimated well, plant fungi outnumber plants five to ten to one and you know, you know, I speak at Ted and I've attended these TED conferences, but it's shocking that the smartest brains in the world didn't realize until recently what we mycologists have known. for a long time, thirty percent of the soil mass, when you walk on the soil, thirty percent of the biological carbon is fungus and the largest because, whoa, wait, you say again thirty percent, thirty percent percent of the soil is a mass of fungi that live in dead places of healthy ones.
The soil, and this is the largest carbon store in the world, is related to these fungal networks, so there are between 8.3 and 10 million species on the planet right now, about half of those species of Fungi outnumber plants. eight to one ten to one by some estimates a really interesting metric and one meter of tree root for every meter of tree root there is a kilometer of mycelium now think about that three feet versus 2200 feet so the extent of the mycelium The network in our landscapes is vast and it is a you, I called it the Earth's natural Internet, this is a membrane that is literally sensitive, I think they are sensitive, they respond to every trace we leave on this planet and, as you walk through the landscapes, We are breaking down wood and that makes new nutrients available, so the composition of the mushrooms is fierce and therefore the first to reach the menu wins.
This is something we are now understanding how essential they are to preserving biodiversity and health. of ecosystems as well as our own personal health, so when you say that you think they are sensitive, to what extent do I mean and you are not talking about psilocybin, yes, we are a little intellectually parochial and we are using made-up language. terms and order to describe concepts that we're dealing with and struggling with, so let me describe it this way we split from fungi 650 million years ago, maybe you did, buddy. I know some people who are probably still fine, basically us.
They are descendants of fungi, yes we share more common interests with fungi than any other kingdom and fungi are closer to animals and plant art, animals come from funshine, you and I are actually bodies of fungus. I'm basically talking about another mushroom body. Right now, Joe Rogan, I mean, whether you know it or not, you're basically a blob of fungi, and from a cellular standpoint, under the microscope, human cells, animal cells, and fungal cells are very, very similar, We exhale carbon dioxide, we inhale oxygen. Like fungi, we separate ourselves from fungi, basically, we choose to encapsulate our nutrients in a cellular football stomach, digest our nutrients within the fungal systems, digest their nutrients externally, exhale oxygen, inhale carbon dioxide and their design in network form allows them to respond. to catastrophe and what I mean by this is that my silicon networks are very dense in the ground and have literally hundreds of billions of tips and as these tips grow they tend to be polynuclei at the tips and that It allows them to upregulate new enzymes, acidic sequences, etc., so if there is a new ecological challenge, a new food source, a new toxin or something, these fungal networks have great plasticity and can encode new sequences from your DNA, so all you need is one. of those hundreds of billions of tips to find a new enzyme to break down a toxin or a new food source and what happens then is that the information is genetically incorporated into the my silikal network and the micelle increases immensely because it has new food logically and then, when the name arises, a new sector called mycelium is created.
We now know that there is evidence that my silikal network benefits from that exploration and discovery, so they are like massively resilient adaptive organisms that have a not very different network-based design. that of our neural networks not unlike the Internet of computers and the more I explore this, the more I become convinced that we will find network-based organisms throughout the cosmos. The problem is that fungal systems and fungal systems probably ultimately give rise in our case to animals. We are more likely to find relationships between fungi and animals throughout the universe. Do you think there is some unknown way in which animals are connected in some similar way and that if animals came from fungi and fungi have this incredible way of communicating with each other do you think there is something like that within the animal kingdom that we haven't discovered well that stimulates my thinking and talk about the microbiome the mycelium landscapes networks do not live alone they select a microbiome of bacteria and other organisms that rest on the mantle, these fungal networks are the basis of the food web.
Similarly, we have a microbiome and it's really interesting that a lot of the bacterial diseases that, in fact, fungi also affect us, come from our best antibiotics against bacteria. Penicillin from fungi is the obvious example, but we have now discovered that, by performing next generation sequencing and this has never been published before, mats of mycelium growing on the same wood chips that in our case had been fermented They had a thousand differences in the relative abundance of the genus of bacteria from the same wood chips to different species of fungi planted on those wood chips and the microbiomes that were created and selected by the mycelium were very different, this really strongly supports the concept , the hypothesis was quickly becoming a theory.
I was making the difference in a minute, but this really supports the concept that I have long believed in a spouse that these mice in little webs are not just a fluke, you are simply creating the habitats in the flora and then ultimately . the fauna that resides within the ecosystem to ensure plurality in the biodiversity of the ecosystem by creating plants that grow that feed the animals, the insects to create the debris fields and that feed the mycelium for the benefit of the offspring of the From then on fungi form, so these are deterministic organisms that are setting the stage for ecological evolution and you think they are doing it consciously.
We will see again that we are victims of our consciousness trying to define what is conscious and what is intelligent. and one of the best arguments I've had with my brother Bill is that a super genius is much smarter than me and he was editing one of my books, my cell phone. I'm posting how mushrooms can help save the world and he's like, Paul, you can't. say that the mycelium is intelligent and you can't say that nature is intelligent I'm going to wait, bill, I respect you but you didn't realize the hypocrisy of the statement you are giving me, you are telling me that nature is not there and yet They are born from nature using the mind to conceive the concept that challenges the idea that nature is not intelligent when you are part of nature.
Rest of my case, yeah, that's in defense, so yeah, so, you know, we create language and words to describe. concepts so you feel like your brother was hindered by these predetermined categories that we like to put things in them even if you have a word use that word the word is very clearly defined in our id thank you thank you yes you know we are Lenten languages code hmm and we don't have, we haven't worked out the code yet to elucidate the concepts that we're trying to articulate, that doesn't mean that just because you can't prove it's true doesn't mean it didn't happen well.
So as our vocabulary increases, you know, as our language lexicon increases, it becomes more robust, so I think we can better describe the evidence and prove that these concepts are true, but we know that we are biologically parochial when we think in how limited we are. Are we really new nuclear-armed Neanderthals? I mean, this is when you look at the importance of natural ecosystems. Try to replicate them, they are very, very difficult to replicate because of their complexity, so I think the more we study nature. most of us scientists, who subscribe to the saying that the more we study this topic, the more we realize that we didn't know and our ar
rogance in thinking that these things can't happen, didn't happen, won't happen, really speaks of our provincial attitude. towards nature, the idea that these fungi are creating their environment and are almostthe architects of this environment, they are setting up the landscape for all of these different creatures and life forms to live in.
It's incredibly fascinating that the idea that and also that they are connected correctly, they are connected in a kind of neural network and there is, what is that? thing in the Pacific Northwest, the only group of fungi that is essentially the largest living organism on the face of the planet? Earth, yes, the largest organism in the world discovered so far is a mycelial mat 2200 acres in size and that is equivalent to approximately 665 football fields and that is an animal, my little man, my Suleiman, it is a honey mushroom that It kills trees, it is edible. fungus, but think about this, I mean, I think so for those listeners, if any soil biologist knows this well, if you go out and get a gram of nice, rich soil from it and you analyze it, there are usually a million and five million microbes. per gram in that soil, then the mycelium is growing, we have five or six layers of skin that protect us from infection, the mycelium only has a cell wall on the other side of the cell. wall or hundreds of millions of soil microbes that are trying to consume it, many of which the mycelium is able to regulate and constant biomolecular communication with this ecosystem can prevent predators from consuming it, thus allowing it to reach the largest mass of any organism in the world this is surprising to me because it means that it is constantly in communication with the ecosystem that is being challenged accepting alliances so guilds of micro biomes selected by the mycelium are being created and these guilds in communities that cooperate to prevent parasites pathogens.
Even competing guilds enter the landscape, so the dominance of these fungi must guarantee the ecosystems that give life to their progeny. The rule of natural selection of life is reproduction, so everything is directed towards reproduction, so from an evolutionary biology point of view, what will become of that organism? do to help it survive so it can reproduce and reproduce by creating community guilds, the microbiome using the mycelial network as the structural basis of the food web seems to be the name of the game here, so this honey mushroom is his camp and his life. In the Pacific Northwest, how is it killing these trees?
It is a root parasite, so it enters and kills trees. I spend a lot of time in old growth forests and do a lot of hiking. I've always wondered about the meadows in the subalpine regions there are all these subalpine forests and then you go out and there are giant meadows. I suspect this honey fungus is a meadow creator, it climaxes these trees, it kills them, then they die and then they grow physically, but then it clears the canopy for grasses, but it was prophetic music, it is growing on dead material, so first there are a couple of multimedia fungi: first the fungi, as a parasite kills the tree, then I say saprophyte or sap probe, that's another word to describe it, it's a decomposer, it decomposes. material, but as the wood decomposes, 30% of the wood becomes water, so the mycelium generates water as water lenses are created.
Goethe now has more sunlight and flowering grasses, so I suspected that these fungi are actually prairie creators, allowing elk, deer, groundhogs, and all that to exist in those Crossland environments is one way to rebuild the nitrogen source in the soil, so I think these time scales that we have are too big and enormous to get us away from the concept of our life expectancy or even 100 or 200 years we need to think in millennial terms, you know, over many millennia, this is incredibly fascinating, the idea that they are sort of the architects of their ecosystem, they are the architects of our existence, this is something that there is really fantastic research that has come out in the last couple of years.
I'm a scientific ambassador for the Triple A estimates of the vastness of science, so I'm a bit on the outside, but I'm very happy to have so much scientific support. these days because a lot of things that I've been talking about for 20 years are now well established and proven, one of the things that's been so fascinating to me and I'm still thinking about this, but you know, The universe was created ago About 13.8 billion years after the Big Bang, the Earth merged and started automatically about 4.5 billion years ago. The first records of life exist that we have about 3.8 billion years ago.
Unicellular organisms, but recently, and lava beds in the south. Africa they found my lava infused psyllium 2.4 billion years ago, now we split from mushrooms 650 million years ago and then in Brazil last year they found an apparently completely intact fossilized mushroom published in nature, which is a magazine very reputable scientist and that one is 1.4 billion years old, so the oldest multicellular organism in the current fossil record is this mushroom and lava in South Africa 2.4 billion years ago a fully formed mushroom whose shape was growing was growing 1.4 billion years ago of years we separated from Funday 650 Millions of years ago, fungi have had their form longer than we have, for more than a billion years here.
Jamie just opened it up on the screen so we could see the one from Brazil, so this is the pause like the image that you're familiar with, yeah, this is the one that was just posted in the past, they have a great name like tongue twisters to pronounce Gondwana a garis I DS Magnificence, why do they do that? To make people like me feel stupid, it is not necessary for students to want to publish articles. Instead they can make up names to make it look better if you have a long Latin sounding name, but think about how mushrooms had their shape before we had ours, yes, these.
They are elders, these are ancient organisms, these are really the overlords of our ecosystem and I suspect that, like these neural networks, they have more neural connections in my master Sileo than a thousand acres and we have in our brain, they are actually accumulating knowledge . genetic intelligence, but I think as time goes on I hope we can interact with them because I think there are many benefits of us communicating with the mycelium that can give us quick responses to catastrophic situations, that's how they have evolved and now we are the catastrophe biggest walker that I know that I am walking all over the planet and we need to involve these allied fungi to obtain the benefits that we must put into practice to avoid the loss of biodiversity.
It seems like a communication gap. It would be very difficult to close the communication gap, I mean, if we actually found a way to communicate in some way with fungi, like the concept of language, like you're just talking about the idea of nature and intelligence and these words that we have. We have these kinds of concrete definitions in our heads that don't really apply to some things that we find very, very confusing, like the idea of fungal intelligence, the idea that somehow or another you could understand the language of these things that we wouldn't understand. I don't even understand dolphin language very well, what a classic example.
The Japanese are so clever at this that there is a slime mold you know called Phi cerium polyethylene supplement and they had a slime mold that is very, very good at navigating through mazes and challenges. it means first food wins energy conservation, you know, it's rewarded, so I set this up. They did several experiments, the most fun, the most fun, is that they designed a basic nutrient, a nutrient like a maze that replicates Tokyo and the Japanese subway system, and so they started with Tokyo and put oats, which is a nutritional source, they inoculated what's on this basic map and of Agra with all the major cities, the nodes around Tokyo and then they made each of those nodes have a piece of oatmeal as a source of nutrition.
The main ship was where Tokyo was, they inoculated it and then they let the mold grow and first I grew randomly, in an exploratory way, you know, like you would if you're a hunter or something that you're hunting in the landscape. for things and then after about twenty-eight hours it was reorganized as efficiently as possible and it reorganized the Japanese subway system in a more efficient way than it is designed today, which is why they said no me, no Paul Stamets, This is a demonstration of cellular intelligence. Go then. this is the tip of the proverbial mycelial iceberg, you know, this has broad implications and I just want people to suspend their disbelief and this actually falls into the evolution of human consciousness and Terence Mckenna was a good friend of mine.
I love Terrence, especially. I loved them for the last five years of his life because he made fun of himself a lot. Terrence's people took Terence too seriously on many levels, but like his brother Dennis, who I think has been on his show a couple of times, this is a great ally. scientists, but you know, Dennis said that even if 10% of what Terence said was true, it's incredibly amazing and Terence and Dennis came up with a tainted theory, now it's not a theory, it's a hypothesis, a hypothesis is speculative , but it may not necessarily be. However, a proven theory is a hypothesis that has been tested and proven with facts, so I do not agree with them and say that they are not theories about hypotheses, but that the hypothesis is the stone, a part of the stone, Dave, what I think you've alluded to before is that with climate change and as the savannahs increased, our primate ancestors emerged from the forest canopies, there they are tracking through the savanna and if you're a hunter, what are you looking for?
Look for steps, look for Scott and more. A significant fleshy mushroom comes out of poop and in Africa, elephants hippos, you know, antelope, etc., it's neglected cubensis, it's a very big mushroom, you're hungry, you're with your clan, you consume it and then, 20 minutes then they catapult you. This extraordinary
experience, psilocybin, serotonin substitutes, becomes a better travel neurotransmitter, activates neurogenesis, causes new neurons to form new pathways of knowledge, so it is a stone date hypothesis and speaks to the mystery that the human brain, basically, the brain cavity doubled in size by approximately two. million years some people say it's less than 200,000 Homo sapiens around 200,000 years Homo sapiens reached 200,000 300,000 years ago that's a big gap right, is it big?
Well, science is like that, you want to know what's scientifically accurate here. It is necessary to show the extreme margins of what has been estimated, so if we accept two million years of age of the innocents shown in the fossil record, this is true, the oldest Homo sapiens fossils are now three hundred thousand years, but we have a subtle sudden doubling of age. human brain and with that our language centers increased our ability to forecast to plan and there is no explanation for this currently and although we cannot prove it, I asked people to suspend their disbelief for a second, now think about this, our primate ancestors . they're traversing the savannah, they ingest these mushrooms as a clan, a massive entry for anyone who eats these mushrooms, huge amounts of data come in geometric fractal patterns, you know, landscapes occur, you have empathy, you have increased courage, you're fighting a saber with Sabertooth. tiger, you know that one day you are afraid of it, we know it now because of the neurogenesis and extinction of the fear response that has been clinically proven.
Psilocybin allows you to reset and have different neurological pathways to respond to fear, overcoming conditioned fear. potentially PTSD response and there is a lot of research on this currently, but this wouldn't happen once with a group of hominids, what happened twice ten times, having millions and millions and millions and millions of times over millions and millions of years, this takes What I think is called, this should be called epigenetic neurogenesis, we know that there is a regeneration of neurons, we know that all Saabs replace serotonin, it opens the floodgates of the senses, much more data enters and we know that it has extinction. of the fear response, so if you are the leader of your clan, you have had this traumatic event, whether it be a war or an earthquake cataclysm, whatever the case may be, or you have encountered a saber-toothed tiger, whether whatever, if you are the leader of that clan and you can overcome your fear response you have courage and empathy those are leadership skills I think people didn't realize people like to fall for leaders who are brave and at the same time kind in who can trust those who will have their best interests mind so I think this drove I think it's a lot it's a very good explanation it's a non-provable hypothesis but now we're at a crossroads and for the network and we're ready for the next quantum leap in the human consciousness I think psilocybin should be It is considered a nootropic vitamin and there is a lot of interest in this Johns Hopkins University, which you probably know well.
New York University, UCLA. In other parts ofThere have been major clinical studies in Europe over the last two years that show exactly what I'm saying. overcoming fear response neurogenesis overcoming post-traumatic stress disorder this is now considered very seriously medically and is something I think we should explore in controlled settings. I don't like partying with psilocybin mushrooms, damn, you know this so well I can understand it, are you sure you'll be here? an hour and a half and he is the creator of the mushroom festival. He will be very upset with your idea that you shouldn't party with that.
I believe there is a greater benefit for me and for humanity. I think these are serious tools. California has them, you know? I'm sure you're probably aware that it's pending legalization. Yes, I was quite surprised to learn that my work put some warnings here. All of my work is covered by a license from the Drug Enforcement Administration. I have published four new ones. species in the philosophy of the genus, including the world's most potent psilocybin mushroom called Selassie, our essence and, to be clear, friends, nature provides us. Not me, Linda, I have my DEA license, I mean everyone.
I suspect there was a DEA agent who came to see me. and I wanted to get some salts Ivan probably got several dates on numerous occasions that's why the point was quite funny, you know, I had a person offer me large amounts of money and I played with him. and I told him no, it's not enough and he offered me more and more money, he presented me with two hundred and three hundred thousand dollars and he was writing all these coded letters and really, he was obviously a DEA agent trying to set me up and he finally got frustrated because I was playing with a guy.
I said I'm tired of being set up like this, I'm just going to play this fool, you know, and finally it got to a point and you got really frustrated, you got mad at me because well, how much money am I worth? There's enough money on this planet for me to ever give you a single Simon Mushrooms, so let it be, but if you say it's not enough money, could it be taken as a bargain? Well, there's not enough money on the planet, I smell some alien, I have to come. there's not enough money on the planet, yeah, you can't afford enough money, there wasn't enough money right before that happens, tell me, you know what, look, think that, if you had, really, you know, loosely playing the judge, you come .
I guess I never committed a criminal act. That's right, but isn't it some kind of conspiracy? I'm not a lawyer. I wouldn't have done it. I mean, you have to keep things in context. Yes, I wouldn't play. Yes, maybe you are more of a brave person. When it comes to those things, well, at some point I got downright angry. I'm pretty sure playing with me is a waste of your time. I'm going to play with you in the tabletop universe, so anyway, this is a serious investigation, yeah, and that's um. It is something that unfortunately, because it cannot be marginalized by the party atmosphere and yes, this is a party drug.
There's a really amazing study that just came out about five days ago. This is a Big Data study that surveyed four hundred and forty thousand people. for ten years and the Department of Health and Human Services data bank and they found an amazing correlation if you had in this patient in this prisoner an
experiencewith psilocybin in his life, an experience was reduced and that population compared to people who did not take mushroom assault an 18% reduction in robberies and larvae and theft and up to a twenty-seven percent reduction and other crimes, including violent crimes, so for Mom X, my numbers were reversed is a 27 percent reduction percent in robberies, an 18 percent reduction in violent crime now Think of the damage not just to the victims and the victims' families, the court system, the lawyers, the collateral damage, people are upset that they are being criminalized in prison for something you know, just for possession of suicide mushrooms or something like that, but think about the return.
On investment, a four to six hour experience creates a lifetime benefit to society and reduces criminal activity by 18 to 27 percent. This is phenomenal mmm. This is something that can help the health of our human psyche of our social system. trauma throughout our society, it's time for us to wake up and see this as a much more experienced and intellectual fad, well, we are rational and not overwhelmed by the ideas that mushrooms are a silly thing, yeah, so I mean, I have a few things that bother me and I understand why people want to use a bit, but the word mushroom drives me crazy.
The mushroom festival told the truth with all due respect. I get it, but you know, let's not be kids about this, let's be adults, you know you're a serious person, yes, I'm a non-serious person on many levels too, but I know that when it comes to something that is so powerful and so Importantly, let's not endanger its medical use and benefit society in the future by appealing to the common minimum. denominator, but let's be adults in the room. Yes, I agree with you to an extent, but I also think it has to be incredibly frustrating for a guy like you who has the kind of information you have running around in your head regarding the way the rest of the world thinks about it. see see it for a person like me, who doesn't know as much as you, but I know a lot more than the average person when it comes to psilocybin and mushrooms or medium amanita muscaria or terence mckenna's ideas the mushroom festival doesn't bother me, but for a serious investigator like you it has to be like ah, you're part of the problem, well, it's making it silly, it's advice, the suspicious problem, right, he held back. your genuine research on this topic for years there is a movement, of course, explain that please, it is a movement right now to move Sovereign Saul from program one to program two. schedule one means illegal drug that has no medical benefits. schedule two means it's a drug. that has medical benefits, so there's a serious movement right now within the FDA to recategorize it because, in the words of the FDA researchers, I know one difference is that they've never seen anything with such a strong safety profile. it provides so many benefits at such a low cost for such a long time this is a medicine and a category of its own this is really important so let's not compromise it it's really important but you will never stop the kids from calling it mushrooms well you know that and I want to give a pass here I want to get a pass and the coming of age you know when I was 16 - you know the age you know 20 to 24 is the coming of age ceremony now I'm going to I'll tell you something that is very personal and very significant in my life.
He had a congenital habit of stuttering. Could not talk. I couldn't look Joe Rogan in the eyes right now without you knowing. It had like the king's speech. You've seen the movie exactly like this, but worse in my case. I went through six years of speech therapy. I was interviewed for special education. I grew up in a small town called Columbiana Ohio and now I couldn't speak, but the kind of stuttering habit I have and had. I don't stutter around animals, I had pet snapping turtles and I talked to him all the time and I don't stutter when I sing, but I couldn't talk without stuttering constantly and please people don't end up with a stutter. sentence the kind of category of stuttering I've been in is that we try to trick our brain with a prepositional or adverbial phrase mid-sentence that we're stuck on because we're thinking three or four sentences ahead and the only way What you can do is trick the brain, so I had to come up with a new neural pathway to trick my brain into getting out of my stuttering rhythm that was just a repetition that I couldn't get out of and then a day before I did it. did.
It had psilocybin mushrooms. I bought a bag of them and thought I had them. I had no information. I just bought the bag for about 25 dollars and I went for a walk in the woods in Ohio and there was a beautiful oak tree that I used. climb to the top of the highest hill, you know, hello, oh, we don't have mountains, we have hills and it was summer, so I thought sentence formulation is important. I knew so I went for a walk and I ate the bag the whole bag I was walking how many was okay it was about I know it was about half an ounce to an ounce so I'm here yeah so we're talking this is all this is this is the elevator ride beyond the tenth floor, you know, 8 to 16 grams is probably on the order of about 20 grams, you know, so, no, but I didn't know, no, I wasn't surprised, but I knew I wanted to, I wanted my destiny with this tree, right?
So I walked and walked and I got to the tree and I was eating the mushrooms and then I started to feel the effects and it was great because I was climbing the tree and I was going higher up the tree and higher up in my brain. That seems like a terrible thing to do and I climb to the top of the tree and this beautiful landscape, but I was there, this summer there are black clouds boiling on the horizon. I say, oh, that's cool, you know, and that's what this big summer storm was like. Then the clouds were dark and boiling and they were getting closer and I could hear the thunder and you know and then I'm going to get higher and higher and the winds are getting stronger and the tree started moving and I started getting a vertical. because I was like, oh my God, I'm getting really high on these mushrooms, so I grabbed the tree and held it and it became my axis mundi on the earth and then the lightning started coming closer and then lightning struck.
Very close and the light hit and I saw fractals for the first time, the atmosphere became liquid. I saw that there were liquid waves of these multi-dimensional geometric patterns everywhere and the lightning sparks would simply create this incredible secondary tertiary well crescendo. You know, there are fractals all around me and I was, oh God, it's amazing, I said, this is what I read about you, you know, and then the storm came and the lightning is all around me and I was showered in the rain and I was there. up and I feel I felt in touch with Gaia, the universe, my heart opened, I felt one with everything, I was like, oh my God, this is such a powerful spiritual experience.
I had no idea, it doesn't matter what anyone reads, since you probably know that they can't describe the experience and Then it hit me, wait a second, Stamets, you're on the tallest tree on the tallest hill for miles in the middle of a thunderstorm, this is not the best place to be and then I realized that they could kill me here suddenly. an avalanche of reality like you know you are, you could become a god, imagine hello, I'm 20 grams of mushrooms, I hug a tree, lightning comes and hits you, maybe you were the Savior, maybe you need to go back to that tree , maybe you.
You're the one, so I thought it was. You know it was an incredibly spiritual and wonderful experience, but I was also afraid and that comes with the hero's journey. You know, you always have the dark side, you always have not only the light. side but as a counterbalance with the dark side and I realized that I'm like God, I'm going to die up here and that's good, I don't roll the dice NamUs, where are your problems? This brings something out of this experience and I said this habit of stuttering is ridiculous and I'm not stupid and I saw I said to myself stop stuttering now stop stuttering now I said it dozens hundreds of times over and over again and luckily the storms passed and they clung to the tree and they got soaked wet I got out of the tree and I walked back to where I was living and then the next day I got up I didn't see anyone and I was walking down this road and a sidewalk and there was a lady that I really liked and but She was always attracted to super confident jocks and stuff like that, she was actually very kind and sweet but I didn't want to look her in the eyes because she stuttered and it's humiliating for us so the more it humiliates us.
Stutterers sense the more we stutter and that's why it's a very slippery slope and that's why I avoided eye contact and that's why, for the first time, she walked up to me, she said good morning, Paul, how are you? She was always very nice to me and I was terrified because I would be ashamed of her and I looked straight into her eyes and said I'm fine, how are you? and I stopped stuttering and one day and this speaks to now what has been proven medically is that we can restore the neurology of the human brain through neurogenesis.
I think the experience allowed me to map new neurological pathways that allow me to act in a way I couldn't before, just to be honest, if I drink a lot of alcohol, I'm in a noisy environment. bar because that's what stutterers and your martial artists are. I've been a martial artist my whole life and we have peripheral awareness, so if someone comes to a door, you know they're walking into the bar and I'm looking at you, I know they've walked through. So this hyperalertness that martial artists have, knowing things in the circumference around us in the peripheral environment, it distracts me, so if I drink a lot and there's a lot of noise and a lot of people come through our doors, I'm hypersensitive to intruders and then that's what I start stammering if a person talks to me and asks me how mushrooms are made, it's like filling a well with a teaspoon because I'm worried about the guy who just walked in the bedroom door.
There are those who seem to be ablenot being a safe person to be in this environment right now, so there will be a time when I will only give 10% of my brain to communicate my 90% of my brain to the person in front of me. is very aware of the circumstantial environment around me, it's time to take another trip to the tree to heal that last 10%, but that's my personal story, it's incredible, it's not immortal, but it worked for you, that's what's important. I work for myself and I was in Crater. Lake Lodge and the bartender came up to me and said she's 17 or 18, she's actually a busboy and my wife and I, my wife looked at me and I looked at her and said, should I go ahead?
So I told him. I told the same story to this busboy. Now this guy was totally straight. He seemed like a super conservative from a conservative family. We told him this whole story and his eyes were wide open because when you meet other stutterers and talk to them, really desperate for a solution, so I never found out what happened to this young busboy, but I think I changed his life forever. . I hope you did. I had a good friend while he was growing up and his brother was severely affected to the point that he would have done it. to grimace, he closed his eyes and looked down, you know he would talk to you and he just couldn't get over it, that's how it was, but he won't stutter at animals hmm, they won't stutter when he sings, so what do you think it is?
What is happening? Well, I think there are several things. It could be trauma when you are a child combined with neuropathy. A psychiatrist who was a specialist in this told me at a conference that there is a theory. that in the seventh month in the womb, you or your neurons failed to make all the necessary connections, so that makes sense to me because I would redirect you with prepositions, prepositional phrases or adverbials to try to jump, they are all common loops. Man, but I think this speaks to increased intelligence and we will all suffer from some type of dementia and neuropathy.
There is a really wonderful, safe and legal mushroom that leads to neurogenesis. and that is called lion's mane and lion's mane is a cascading white icicle, edible and a choice mushroom that they sell in stores, store doors of groceries they roast you lion's mane, they are called um, several brands, a night of love is called pompom Blanc, it seems The pompoms, some cheerleaders and the lion's mane, contain a us in a unique group of beautiful compounds called Aaron a scenes and harissa nuns, and these regenerate myelin in nerve axons, so this is a mushroom comedy that she discovered in 1994.
Japanese researcher and postulated as a possible preventative or treatment for Alzheimer's muscular dystrophy, etc., but do you take it? I take it every day, every day, do you take it in raw form or in capsules so I can buy it? Yes, we have a wide line of products. Yeah, how do you get to that host defense? com Host Defense Calm Why Host Defense? That's part of your innate immunity response that supports your immunity, but we are main business in fungi calm and I recorded many myself. I'm a little proud of that. It cost me $25 1994 wow yes so be prepared for winter but lion's mane is a safe mushroom to consume.
There are several clinical studies on the treatment of mild cognitive dysfunction, but there are two mouse studies that I think are quite illuminating and this is translational medicine, this translates from mice. experiments with humans that we already know is that it has aspects of neurogenesis when you enter the Alzheimer's state of Alzheimer's, which is a great complex but one of the characteristics is the formation of amyloid plaques demyelination of neurons myelin transmits neuronal signals demyelination The neuron sheath is disrupted by amyloid plaques which then prevent neurotransmission, so the mouse experiments that I think are very interesting were the corn experiment, where the mice were placed in an arena and They went out through a hallway.
They went in one direction in the corridor, they found food in the other direction, there is no food, well, very quickly, the mice learned, you know, you go out in the corridor, go left, you will find food, they injected it and then without polypeptide toxic that induces amyloid plaque. formation which is a neurotoxin very quickly after about two weeks the mice develop neuropathy they became confused they couldn't remember which way to go it was randomized by giving mushrooms again to these mice for a few weeks they almost became normalized by euthanizing the mice in In the first part of the experiment they saw my plaques and then demyelination.
The second part of the experiment, of course, in another subset of mice they found that the myelin grew back and the amyloid plaque had resolved. This is post mortem, you say goodbye, so, there are 100 miles. you're basically cutting a representative sample where you euthanize them and determine yes, that's representative of the population, now the remaining population is alive, they fed them mushrooms and found that they regained neurological function. Wow, the other experiment I find is even more fun. It is and this was known in Japan, they put about 100 mice in an arena and they put a toy in the middle of the cage.
Now the mice got excited, they came closer, they sniffed it and they smelled it and they got very excited and sat down. there with counters to measure there were touch points how many touch points do the mice have exploring a new toy it's like a really good baseline hundreds of data points and they do the same thing then they introduced this cyclic peptide and this neurotoxin and the mice then , after a while, we ran interested they had no imagination or curiosity they put a new toy they were not interested they did the same now even their full blown dementia symptoms gave them lion's mane mushrooms and after a few weeks when they put a new toy they returned to almost normal levels by sacrificing the mice they found that that day my plot was quite resolved and Milan had regenerated and neurogenesis did not occur this is an intelligent fungus now the tragedy we face I think that as a society it is we have people like you, People like me, we are all going to suffer neuropathy, we have a lifetime of body knowledge, intellect, that we are going to begin to lose, so what is a loss for the society of our elders?
I think this is something really extraordinarily exciting, it's not patentable, pharmaceutical companies have no interest in this, but this is probably the first thing that people can do in my mind to preserve pranati cognitive function, but to expand it now, personally, I would love to. To see that it is legal to stack them both, stacking psilocybin with lion's mane and I think stacking it and then combining it with vitamin d3 now suggests vitamin d3 niacin because those of you who have had a niacin flush know 200 milligrams of niacin. or more you get red, itchy and neuropathy usually occurs in the tips of your fingers and toes and in the peripheral nervous system, as you have neuropathy, the nerve endings start to die backwards, so my idea here is because there are different Receptors are activated by psilocybin and then with the Arron, scenes of the lion's mane, if you stack the lion's mane with psilocybin mushrooms with niacin, the advantage is hypothetical, but I think it's worth it This is worth trying: Niacin may help boost the neurogenic benefits of salsa Ivan and Aaron show scenes from the end of the peripheral nervous system, which is why we currently have a clinical study planned in Oregon using lion's mane mushrooms.
The doctors who have analyzed the research, which is solid, are convinced and that it provides value and they have their own funding, so we can do any study of 30, that is what we hope to do with 30 patients and we hope to start that study next year . It was phenomenal to see how that would affect people with CTE, like football players and boxers. people with a cross damage, yes, across the board, yes, I am the benefits and this is something that when you are depressed you are not creative and you are such that your immune system is also depressed, you are psychologically emotionally depressed and you are not as creative when you're happy you're creative and your immune system is better so this could be critical for disease mitigation across the board so these are some of the different examples like this where fungi need to be ahead of the first scenario of consideration by serious scientists and abandon your Michaelphobia or even what I call silophobia, the irrational fear of psilocybin mushrooms, and look at them with new eyes and abandon your prejudices and just see them as a serious person. scientific analysis Wow, how is this received in the scientific community at large?
Is there skepticism? Well, I love my skeptics because unless they are biased against you and some people are, you will never be able to convince them, but if you know the scientists when they see the data sets and If they see that there are a dozen or more publications with scientists without commercial interests that have done this independently, so they are taking this very seriously, so although at this point the entire medical community knows that I speak at several American Academy of Dermatology TEDMED medical conferences, I have been the speaker major. speakers, you know a lot of medical conferences and it's great because I can accept people who are totally skeptical and most of them leave that room convinced and why shouldn't we think of fungi as sources of medicines?
I mean, penicillin may be World War inclined. two in our favor, then, at work, the Japanese and the Germans did not have penicillin even though Alexander Fleming discovered it in 1928, in 1941 a laboratory technology researcher went to a market in Chicago and found a moldy melon and Alexander Fleming's strain of penicillin was too weak to be marketed. This researcher who found this moldy melon found a strain of Penicillium that was 200 times more potent and as a result of that, in the war most of the victims died from infections, so the British and the English, the English and the Americans They had penicillin, the Germans and the Japanese didn't, so it's a great NPR analysis of this in the history of penicillin and it's one of the main factors that helps tip the balance in favor of the Allied powers against the powers of the Axis.
So concerned were the researchers in England that they impregnated their clothes with spores of this strain of mold, so that if our laboratories were bombed or they were captured, if one of them escaped, they could regenerate the culture on their clothes. Wow, this is talking about panspermia, we are all carrying fungal microbiomes, the fact that you and I are here together means that I have now inoculated you with my select fungal microbiome, so Joe, you are now a vector, amazing congratulations, now there are the frustrating aspects of what is the word to use mushroom phobia that were used in Biko phobia Michel phobia the frustrating aspects are, first of all, the prohibition, the broad 1970 psychedelic law that made mushrooms psilocybin were illegal, and then, in addition, the commercial pharmaceutical industry that does not want to have anything to do with something that it cannot patent and has so many doctors and so many researchers in its pocket, so you have two problems, you have one problem which people are obviously the reason why you don't like the word mushroom that people think. of mushrooms as a party drug, like being stupid, you know, freaking out, doing something stupid, regrettable actions and then saying "wow", we went so crazy thinking it was something frivolous that you would engage in, whereas what you're trying to do is shows the absolutely hard science do you feel that this absolutely hard science is?
I mean, you have to feel, but it's killing unfairly, it's Iseman, but there has been a title change in the pharmacology of the use of psilocybin and its usefulness as a therapeutic agent. a change of title. I think there are now over 700 patients who have gone through Johns Hopkins clinical trials for things like end-of-life depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, their studies on treating alcoholics and drug addicts, and it's important to communicate that to people. and to the John Hopkins study. in particular Dr. Roland Griffiths, a great scientist who has been defending these studies, presented a series of very interesting analyses.
Some of the key points were that only 70% of people described this incredible experience therapeutically in controlled environments at John Hopkins with a High doses attacked Simon as beneficial only 70% 70% 30% said I didn't like it. taste. In a retrospective study 14 months to two years later, 70% of people who said it was a beneficial experience still described it as such. of the most significant beneficial experiences of his life and by interviewing his friends and spouses, they saw a permanent residual effect of the benefits of the experience. There were nicer people. There was nothing good or less likely to get angry.
They had many of thevalues we would appreciate. As an enhanced community of individuals, 33% of people who had a native experience, the negativity of the experience did not extend beyond the experience itself, so they had no collateral damage where we had collateral benefits, so the positive people saw it as a positive experience and the memory of the experience this is so great the memory of the experience kept them optimistic, hopeful and they felt the benefits of simply remembering the experience people had a negative experience that you know they would not do again do that, so these mushrooms are Obviously, they're not for everyone, but for the people who benefit, they benefit substantially.
Don't you think that many of the people who have those negative experiences, at least from what I understand, are people who have serious problems? that they're not dealing with ego issues and the fungi expose that and try to fight the fungus, I mean, when absolutely that is, I think you put it very well, I think it's a big problem, some people are afraid of their ego. interior, you know. we're all, you can't paint the canvas in black and white, yeah, we're a huge spectrum of complexes, you know, personality traits and what happened to someone when they were two years old and five years old, what trauma they experienced, you know, it's It is very complex to be able to make these statements, but I think that, as a group, there are some people who are on the edge and may not control their innermost emotions and are afraid of that in a normal state of consciousness, so they are afraid of do it.
They may lose control, right, yes. I mean, I've personally had some terrifying psychedelic experiences, but the way I've gotten through them is to just give in, just give in, and for a person like me it's kind of a control freak, especially when I was younger, it's kind of a thing. hard to do just because you like it, no, no, I'll be fine, no, I'll do it, you know, I'll know that I don't like where this is going. I'm going to stop. this right now I'm going to put an end to this I'm going to get back to sobriety like it's impossible, it's not going to happen so you have to figure out how to let go and how to really let go and trust mushroom or DMT or whatever I'll take you on this journey and you'll be fine when it's over and if you can't do that, that's the bad trip and I've seen a lot of people have bad trips. trips what are the close friends?
We are the victim of the fact that we do not have a tradition of infrastructure in our societies like the First Peoples and Native Americans. Have you established a structure? they have a shamanic tradition shamanic tradition rituals elders who have been doing this for a long time. I have established that they know how to treat these powerful medications in the correct context. Yes, and we need to know. Did you know that mushrooms were specifically prohibited in beer? In the Varian Beer Law of 1516, mushrooms, henbane and other plants were used in Meads' psychoactive beers and were celebrated by people who practiced pagan religions in Europe in the forest and the fight between, I think, Christianity, monotheism versus polytheism and nature-based religions, there was a collision course and then, under pressure from the church, they banned the addition of these plants that could be their gateway to God because the church wanted to be between you and God, they wanted to get the Thai things they wanted to find their portal and control. access to the divine mm-hmm, so these mushrooms were specifically considered a threat to monotheism and Christianity, so varium mushrooms Burak banda, that's awesome, Terrence had some pretty interesting thoughts on that.
Pterence McKenna did one of the things he said. who believed that as the climate changed and some mushrooms became less and less available, they began preserving them along with honey because you can preserve things and honey and that by preserving things and honey you also run the possibility of fermented honey and then fermented honey becomes Mead, you enter more of an alcohol culture than a psychedelic culture, which is actually on the opposite end of the spectrum. Alcohol culture loosens inhibitions, wild behavior, thinks less about the consequences of your actions, less introspective thinking, much more chaos, what is right and what he believes. that this probably resulted in some kind of change or rather he believed before he passed away that there was some kind of change from these more communal mushroom worshiping cultures to what he sees in the Inquisition and some of the more chaotic cultures.
At times in the story, he would respectfully disagree with the second part of that analysis, not what you're saying but what Terence would have been saying a lot and being preserved in honey is a way to keep them from rotting, right? It has nothing to do with Mead, well you did it. I think he had something to do with me, the amount of alcohol that is produced versus the dose you would get hmm, it seemed to me that this whole dose of Simon would be much more powerful than the small amount of alcohol. You're right am I twisting what he was saying no I don't think so I think you know you have a you just don't agree with his initial yeah and that's okay you know Terrence isn't you know Terrance He was a very smart guy and I still appreciate him.
I love him but wandering thoughts and they were incredible well the zero time wave from him was totally nonsense well that was crazy that was crazy yeah the end of times happened on his birthday. I'm going, don't you think the low egocentrism of him? Well, he had something strange about him too. a kind of computer program and I tried to follow him many times some of the lectures that he gave about that computer program that represented the zero time wave what was the idea for interested people, he just thought that there would come a point of maximum novelty . and somehow, conveniently, he had that point coinciding with both his birthday and the end of the Mayan calendar, yes, yes, his birthday was also December 21, 2012.
I think celebrating that is totally, but he basically got the math to fit the convenience of your birthday. so it's like we're all guilty of being human, yeah, I mean even the greats, yeah, I mean, and he was great, but he was one of my favorite people in terms of listening to his recordings, did he ever listen to psychedelics, Ilan, oh. yes, amazing podcast, one of the best articulates of the English language I have ever heard, yes I agree and like his brother, yes, it is always what brings you back to the drugged ape theory, one of the things that his brother talked about and maybe you could go into more detail about the impact that psilocybin has on the creation of language and he believes that the same pathways that you were discussing that psilocybin sort of enhances that, which may well have been how humans began to craft language, oh, I think you're right about that because glossolalia and we know that neurogenesis occurs in the hippocampus.
Glossolalia is the ability to speak and learn high-pitched languages and new words, since language, your language ability is in you, according to experience, Simon talks about neurogenesis and exactly. What we've been talking about is that basically your hippocampus is your center for learning and memory and that's why the mice got better because neurogenesis was happening in the hippocampus and then they got their memory back and they were able to learn, so yeah. I believe that this neurogenesis not only occurs in the hippocampus but can also occur in the peripheral nervous system. I have an extraordinarily powerful story that I would like to tell about neurogenesis and it was told to me by a good friend of mine named Bill Webb, who he lived with.
Big Sur California was a friend of Ansel Adams and Henry Miller wrote a copy of Tropic of Capricorn, whatever was in the '60s is a big part of the movement in the '60s and '70s and Ansel Adams is the very famous photographer and Bill Webb was a mentor for me i met him when i was 20 i was writing about my first book philosophy of mushrooms philosophy of mushrooms and our allies you wrote your first book at age 20 the action i was 18 you're bad, yeah, it was the strangest thing, I mean, I haven't told you, no one has done this in 30 years, but I went to a place called Montana Books in Seattle and I had my manuscript and I walked into the bookstore because they told me Montana Books was kind of an avant-garde book publisher in that and the early 1970s and so they told me to go there and I made an appointment and went in.
I'll meet with an editor and he'll listen. This is an interesting little field guide you wrote, but this is not our market. You know you really need a book. representative you need an agent and so the best agent I know by far is Bill Webb you know but I haven't seen Bill Webb in two years but you know you really need to see Bill Webb and when he said those words, the door opened. A little bell rang and Bill Webb walked in, it was like the editor said this is crazy, you know, Bill Webb and I bonded closely.
He was a father figure to me. He was in his 70s when I met him, so Bill and I fell in love with him. to Big Sur we traveled together because of the great mentoring, you know, the father-son relationship and Bill and I became very close and then Bill was about 82 years old and he calls me and says Paul, I have to tell you something that is very important and I want you to listen so you understand Paul, I'm coming, yeah, Bill, hello, how are you? He's doing well. I'm not doing very well. I'm losing my sight.
I'm losing my hearing and getting older sucks. I said, but no. I want to tell you something that's really important. You know, great. Bill didn't tell me. No, Paul. I want you to completely swear to me that you will tell this to other people. I'll get it. Bill hangs out. It's okay, Bill. late, you know, I made the promise, what is it, okay? I've had this damn hearing aid and I hate it. I can't hear the birds or the waves crashing on the beach and that's a big part of the Big Sur experience. Over the cliffs, the great south and I said well, how's this for the last time? and he's doing well, I did a five gram dose of cubensis, that's the hero's journey where people heard five grams like his, you know you're on the ground and he was on this terrace and it was a house and he realized that he didn't have his hearing aid and he could hear the birds and the waves and things like that and he was laying there, you know he's in his 80s at the time. and he's like he's having an incredibly happy experience, he comes there to reconcile his own mortality, the fact that he's going to die, he's thinking about his life and, you know, he's dreaming in that dreamscape and then he hears click, click, click, click, click, click.
He looks around him and says what is that noise, he shakes his ear and maybe something is a yeren, click, click, click, click, click, click, he looks around him and says it's driving me crazy . I go where the sound is coming from and he finally looked and it was ants walking on the deck near his head, he could hear his footsteps neurogenesis Jesus Christ and this is an easily measurable metric for my experience with vasila psilocybin while he is completely in the experience, he said that now he wears hearing aids for three or four days. I mentioned it, just make mushrooms again and keep the audience.
You know well that he basically ran out of cubensis and that's why he was asking me for cubensis at night. Sorry, I can't give it to you, so I brought this up now. For several clinical researchers who are licensed by the DEA and who are conducting the clinical research, this is the easily measurable metric that they can measure, as people are fully aware that in these sessions they could be given auditory stimulation to see if the auditory nerve is experiencing ASIS regional erosion. And this is something that I think can be incorporated into clinical studies to see if it's true, but Bill was at Phatak and when Bill Webb spoke he had an enormous gravitas, this guy was a very serious intellectual, so I think this is a from a study, you know an individual, but I think this is something that medical researchers paid attention to.
Do you think he could regenerate something that quickly? However, how could it happen so quickly? During the excitement of our trip, because there are like nodes of it intersect and there's an interconnection that happens and there's a great graph that I didn't send you in advance that shows this your brain without psilocybin, this your brain with psilocybin and there's a lot of neural connections that are happening, so I think you already know. Just like water chooses the path of least resistance, I think neurologically, if there is a neurological path that can help you as a species as an individual survive, there should be a saber-toothed tiger on the horizon, so I think the economics of energy and nature would reward the neurological pathways that were most likely to lead to your survival, so I think brain-wide neurogenesis occurred just like I did with my stuttering and it was another neurological pathway, but in Beerus' case, when he lost his access to Those mushrooms then the neuropathy, you know, became more resident and prominent, which is why we're looking at these images, but Jamie is the best.
We're just looking at these images and could you explain to us what they are? Okay, your brain in motion magic ANSI. Reagan's mantra here, yes this is itthe push towards their faces, okay, the placebos on the left, this is your normal representation of the interconnection between the nodes of your brain, so try to explain this to people, most people are just listening. Okay, so the one on the left basically shows connections between neural nodes that can be on the order of 40 or 50 different crossing notes, the one on the right was psilocybin, it is literally in hundreds and the crossing nodes are not only There are more, but the thickness of the lines speaks to how robust those crossover nodes are in carrying neurological signals, so this is quite surprising now, this also plays a role.
I think it's important for our US military, you know, for the coders, for the people who are trying it. to solve very complex data sets, the ability for you to have higher cognition and higher intelligence and that's why microdosing is all the rage in Silicon Valley, the huge number of coders are microdosing right now and for those who are listening to this philosophy of general use cubensis as the standard species because it grows the most and from half a gram to a quarter of a gram you have takeoff, you know, five grams is the full-blown hero's journey, many people will take between two and four grams as a moderately spiritual experience.
The grams are higher, so microdosing is taking a dose so low that at most you may feel a little dizzy the first time you take it on the first day, but you develop tolerance immediately on the second day, the second third day . they don't feel anything so it's on the order of a tenth of a gram of cubensis where people take this and then take it repeatedly over time and the coders in Silicon Valley of the biggest computer companies, we all know that this It is not only not a fashion, but a tool in which they are seeing a greater capacity to create codes and it is a competitive advantage in the capitalist system.
I have a good friend who is a world kickboxing champion and one of the best in the world, he microdoses daily and has been doing it for the last year, I want to say probably about a year, and has made phenomenal improvements in his performance because of it, He says that when he's training it's almost like he's psychic, like he knows what people are going to do before they do it. if you said your mood is better, you feel better, you just feel more balanced and you're going to take days off and when you take days off and even though you're completely sober while microdosing because you're really just microdosing, there's something about taking days off where everything feels like shit it just doesn't feel right and then he's like oh I didn't do it, I didn't take my microdose and then he takes it again and he goes back to that place but he feels like he's in the womb, well, actually, it's probably a good thing I break it because it clears those receptors of all this siphoning and the second time, do you think you should break for two days out of seven, so five days on two days off now?
I'm not making official recommendations, I'm just saying I'll do it from my little knowledge on the subject. I think it makes sense, it's consistent with traditional Chinese medicine and it's also consistent for those of us who drink coffee like me. five days you take two days off and the next day is the strongest cup of coffee you've had in a long time, you know this because my friends and I just got to the next podcast after this we just finished getting sober in October, so no alcohol, no marijuana, nothing good, we had coffee, but that's all and when I stopped smoking marijuana, the first thing that happened was that my dreams became a rocket charge, very strange, like crazy, lucid, strange, strange dreams. not lucid in the sense that I controlled them, but lucid in the sense that I realized I was dreaming and it was like I was having incredibly vivid and vibrant dreams and I would wake up from them and I was sure that what I had done was real as I had done it. a dream and I fell asleep on the couch and while I fell asleep on the couch, but while I was sleeping I thought, oh, I'm struggling to cover myself with this blanket while I'm on the couch and I'm pulling it. but it's trapped under the cushions.
I'm struggling and I'm almost over it and I slept well again when I woke up in the morning. There is no blanket. There is no blanket near me. Did not exist. I had a lucid dream. I dreamed that I was covering myself with a blanket while I was sleeping on this couch, something very strange and in very primary dreams, like being chased by wolves and running into bears and caves and really strange colors, very, very vibrant and apparently from what I've read. Marijuana does something to suppress REM sleep and by taking time off your REM sleep goes through the roof.
You know, I've heard this many times. I've never seen a clinical study on this, but it's the kind of thing you hear so many times you're pretty confident this is true. Well, we all experience it. All of my friends who experienced it, in particular, probably smoke as much as I do, maybe more. I have experienced it deeply. Glad to hear it. you mentioned lucid dreaming because this is a good segue into I think this is the biggest discovery I've ever made in my life and I want everyone to have gone through lucid dreaming so let me set the stage here and colony collapse disorder is a threat to food biosecurity worldwide and bee killing bees around the world are being decimated say the name of disorientation colony collapse disorder lapse disorder now bees are dying in huge numbers Oklahoma lost eighty-five percent of their hives last year this 2016-2017 annual loss of Bees report and Marilyn lost 75% Nebraska I think she lost 60% I knew a beekeeper in Washington state who lost 75% of his 35,000 hives .
Now Apis mellifera is the bee and is now grown in factory farms and the almond crop in California is the largest market for Beekeepers who send their bees to almond orchards, one being can pollinate a thousand flowers in a day, so that each flower the bee visits is an almond, making it one of the most dependent crops in the world. 35% of their food depends directly on the bee. pollination, the other 65%, a lot of that depends indirectly, but hey, alfalfa and clover for cows, all of our dairy products depend on bee pollination, all of our berries, all of our nuts.
Coffee is even cannabis and other non-dependent plants benefit from what is called buzz pollination. Because bees are better able to spread pollen through the air, many of the entomologists I have been dealing with now think that we could have a complete colony collapse worldwide within ten years, the cost will be astronomical to our society. prices where food will increase poverty will increase it can be argued that increasing poverty leads to terrorism because people are poorer, they are desperate and that is why the collapse of the colonies is now much worse than most people believe because all wild bees have now been infected, so 80% of pollination services come from wild bees and 20% comes from managed honey bees.
Apis mellifera is from honey bees from Europe brought in the 18th century in 1984. The varroa mite was introduced to the United States and the varroa mite is like a parasite. on the back of the bees and inject viruses into the particularly deformed wing virus, the Lake Sinai virus and the black queen Saul virus, the deformed wing virus is really the most important one that the bees used to go to and only live 30 days, but now they used to go Paul for nine days, so they leave the hive and pollinate for about nine days, they bring pollen and that is their service to the hive and they die now, the average pollination time is only four days, they order fight against the mites they have. been using a toxic insecticide called Emma trows Emma tries fights is licensed to combat ticks on cattle using heavy doses of amitrane for cattle, beekeepers have been soaking their hives with a mattress twice a year now that might have developed a tolerance and now Up to nine times a year they are absorbing peaks to kill mites.
The mites are injecting these viruses. It's the number one bridge between liberals and conservatives, so when you're at Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas or Hanukkah, if you want to avoid talking about Trump and politics or Hillary or Benghazi or whatever topic, you know the dispute is talking about bees, everyone agrees. about protecting bees, so I first had a daydream in 1984. She had two hives. I planted a mushroom in my garden called the garden giant and one time this summer I went out with my mushroom water and it was covered in bees and the bees were moving. I moved the wood chips away and I could see these white mycelia and they were sucking the little droplets from my sneezes out of my cilia.
I got very excited and I kept a diary and for 40 days, from dawn to dusk, there is a continuous convoy of bees in my mushroom bed there is an edible mushroom and I made a note of it, I published it and in Herre Smith magazine in 1988 I put it in one of my books in 1994 and then forgot about it, so I got directly involved with the US Bioshield biodefense program. After 9/11, you can Google my name Stamets and smallpox. There is a vetted press release from the US government. We did over two thousand two hundred tests on our mushroom extracts and found extracts that were highly active against flu viruses. including avian flu against herpes and against poxviruses including smallpox, so I have a patent that was issued on this.
It's a great side story because, as you might know, Blackhawk helicopters flew over my lab. All these other things. It's a great true conspiracy story, so I posted it. this research into the antiviral properties of mushrooms, mycelium and then I heard about bees, you know, I would keep bees and then a friend of mine, Louis Schwartzberg, we're making a movie called Fantastic Mushrooms that's been in development for ten years and Louie. He came to me and said, Paul, I have eight patents on fungi that can control termites, ants, mosquitoes. You can search on Google right now.
The stamps can end Monsanto. There are probably a thousand websites because my patents are disruptive, so I can largely control the consumption of termites and ants. your house for about twenty cents and I met with all the big companies, but anyway Louie knew about my research, he had talked about this before and he said, Paul, the mites are killing the bees, can't you do something to solve it? help the mites and now it's okay, it's two stories, we have this biodefense story of Bioshield and my antiviral stuff. We have me looking for mushrooms in the garden and doing a lot of walks through the old forest and I am walking through the old forest. growing forest and the way I orient myself here is one of the few skills where I like to just get off the trail and I'm on the South Fork of the whole river and I'm deep in the old growth forest.
I turn a corner. and I saw a bear hit, that bear came up Pam scratched his tree, a huge hit with his paw and the tree and I told my wife, I told her, you know the state of Washington, the school system depends on funding from selling timber to logging companies, so the school system depended on logging on public lands, so, with great human wisdom, they decided that bears were jeopardizing educational funding in the state of Washington, so they hired hunters to kill all the bears. So my neighbor killed 400 bears, that's why we have a salmon. runs right now in Skookum Inlet and Kindle Check Point Washington there are no bears around because they saw bears threatening economic stability this will suspend why bears trap bears and scratched trees they have become a gateway room for a fungus polypore, so I told my wife that if this is true, let's come back in two years and see if this polypore fungus is growing there.
These are wooden shells similar to the one my hat is made of, so we came back two years later and sure enough, this wooden shell was growing. outside the tree, the tree had died, so they had the right that when the bears scratch the trees, resin comes out and the bees are attracted to the propolis to make propolis from the resins to plug the cracks in their hives and Prevent invaders from entering the hive. They're all seemingly disparate stories and that's why this waking dream brought it all together so I have my giant garden and you know, the bed that the bees come to.
I have the bio shield biodefense program where I discovered that these extracts are highly active against viruses. The trees introduced polypore fungi and then my friend Louie Schwartzberg said, "You know how you can help the bees," and I highly recommend it to anyone who will listen, it's these lucid dream states in that state where you're completely asleep and you simply enter the ether. from the vigil stayresides there there we have random access memory before you have your neurological pathways all set up out of habit what you're going to do just exists in that space and then I had synapses that activated a new neurological pathway I had an epiphany I think I know how to save the bees.
I now have several patents issued around the world. We have done research at Washington State University. We have raised 2.5 million dollars. You can go to WS w WB e SW su dot edu so that the University of Washington D U for education and you will see the resource that we have there that we are at now. I discovered that Amadou extracts, which my hat is made of, double the lifespan of bees and reduce the deformed wing virus by more than a thousand times in ten days I hit Joe's damn home run. I'm not an entomologist. I mean, I have two hives.
I'm not even a big beekeeper, but I put together these thoughts that if these mushroom extracts reduce viruses that harm humans, pigs, and birds, what would they do? to do with bees now we all grew up with Winnie the Pooh, so my US patent was issued last year and now it's issued in Australia, the United States, it's issued in Europe, Eurasia, in Canada. I plan to open the source code to the rest of the world, but I was waiting. on pins and needles because it would certainly be something called prior art, patents are now granted based on several criteria: one, no prior art, no one has ever mentioned it, second, contrary to conventional wisdom, then if you invented the bicycle, the wheel, then you came out with a tricycle that is not patentable that is quite obvious because it is logical so you want something there is no evidence in the literature public or private or scientific or popular design what you wanted the opposite of conventional and conventional wisdom, which means that you want experts to teach you for your invention, so every time someone tells me that, I hear Paul Stamets this is full of nonsense, nothing he says is true.
I have a great answer. I thank you, you are helping my patentability because the more experts teach. of my invention, the less conventional my invention is, therefore, the more patentable it is. The third criterion is usefulness. Benjamin Franklin couldn't have invented the iPhone. There is no utility without cell towers, so these are three criteria. After 17 years, it becomes open source. The idea is to encourage, you know, inventors, that's why they have the iPhone, the Droid, their computers, you know, and a person called me on a cell phone and said: how dare you patent this? Come on, how dare you talk to me on a cell phone that was enabled? for a patent, so you could tell me I shouldn't patent things.
Just the contradictions are quite obvious, so Pattinson has now issued and there was no prior art even though we all grew up with Winnie the Pooh. We knew that bears went to rotting trees to look for honey and apparently no one hives - until I made the connection that bees are attracted to mycelium and rotting logs because of the immunological benefit. Now let's go back in time because it's a very broad concept. here 12,000 years ago we invented agriculture what we do we start deforesting when we start cutting down trees we start dismantling Nick's immune mycelial networks from nature the mycelium needs wood to decompose you take away the wood that there is mycelium does not have a habitat because it is produced the mycelium these antiviral compounds rot the wood that attracted the bees and due to deforestation we are now stressing the bees so it is not just due to lack of habitat deforestation there are now neonicotinoid bears and Sinden Syngenta producing new necks as they sponsored research into toxic insecticides in Europe because they didn't believe the new and annoying thing would harm bees.
There was research that the researchers finally published when they got the results that were contrary to the interests of Syngenta and they maintain that in fact, the new nicknames of noids harm the second and third generation, now neonicotinoids are banned in Europe, they are not banned in the United States, so these neonicotinoids move into their adjacent fields, so the deforestation of the wood is lost and a new and different noise is produced. You don't get phosphates in there, especially with GMOs because they interfere with the bees' microbiome and their gut flora, so they can't detoxify them.
It's called the cytochrome p450 pathway. I think we all have it to break down toxins, so there is a confluence. of multiple stressors but the nail in the coffin, by far, is the deformed wing virus and we have now discovered that extracts of this drop per thousand drops, one milliliter and one leader can reduce viruses and bees by more than a thousand times and doubling the shelf life, so it's a damn home run because it protects food biosecurity around the world at a time when food ecosystems are collapsing, but think about the bigger picture here for millions of years we were forced to be people, we begin deforestation, we engage in agriculture, we begin to dismantle the immune networks of nature, the mycelium, this resident.
The fact that these same fungi reduced viruses and bees, pigs, birds, people, speaks to me of a larger concept that mycelium is part of ecosystem immunity and, as we lose the fields of waste that the mycelium depends on, we begin to dismantle the immune system. The health of our environment and zoonotic diseases stop coming from factory farms, whether pigs or chickens, and we have an extraordinary experiment and this speaks to the Blackhawk helicopter. The story is that he was working on a bioshield for a defense program. They contacted me right after 9/11 because I wrote an article that was a one-page analysis of all the research on the antiviral properties of mushrooms in the scientific literature.
I wrote this article published in a peer-reviewed journal. Bioterrorism became front and center. of concern from the US Department of Defense, a group of virologists saw my article and they were funded by Dick Cheney and George Bush and I have a, you know, I want to ironically thank those two because the front of the shield of bow is called project. for a biodefense and they found it with several billion dollars and they contacted me because they knew I had this huge library of about 700 fungal strains in our cultivation library. We have a company of 78 great employees and we had this great library, so I said we wanted to test your library based on this article you wrote that shows that some mushrooms have antiviral properties.
You have a lot. Test your library to see if we have such good antiviral properties that I started making mushroom extracts. the fruiting bodies, the mycelium, the lower elements, like something fuzzy that gives rise to mushrooms, and I sent out 100 extracts at a time, all covered in alphanumeric codes so they wouldn't know that the government didn't know how to send them, so I get the first reports. I come back and I'm flipping through them. No activity There is no activity against poxviruses because by far the biggest concern with smallpox is that we have no logical immune defense against it after 1974, they stopped immunizing.
You have a smallpox vaccine in your arm, yes? I'm probably one of the last ones to get it, so I'm reviewing and I'm coming to try 78 this on high activity, you know, it shows 81 on high activity, I got really excited. I looked at my notebook with the codes and it comes from this fungus called gerakan that grows exclusively in the old-growth forests of the Pacific Northwest. This mat is the longest-lived fungus in North America. It is a perennial polypore. It looks like a giant beehive. By coincidence, you know it's in a tree. I am able to get a picture of Jamie and a gerakan AGA RI kon and I was very excited and they gave me a contact person.
Could I have a point of contact with you? Department of Justice, a doctor. I called him to tell him about these investigations. the results were wonderful he says what the results of the investigation I go Federal Express just gave me this complete file on the first hundred samples Go and says: you're not supposed to receive those I said well, I'll photocopy it and send it to you you know , he didn't think that was very funny, but that's the US government, sometimes it's not very well organized, the left hand doesn't talk to the right hand, so we got these research results.
It's crazy, it looks like a stick on a friend, but what this one is is particularly unusual because if it was attached to an upper branch it would fall through the air oh wow, it hit the other branch and wobbled and then it regrew its mycelium and it He connected again with the mother who sells next door. the tree and then it grew two legs, so this was first described by ice karate from 65 AD. C. as elix cerium ad long in vitam, the elixir of long life, which is why it has been used in the Greek pharmacopoeia for thousands of years. please go back to your store sorry for the interruption No, anyway I'm in Canada and one of my managers calls me and says Paul, there's a helicopter room, whoever the lab is.
I don't know, it's not a big deal and the helicopters come and go, no, it's very close. I said how close is it going, listen to me troop, wait, that's very close. I go, what are the numbers on the back of the helicopter? He goes, there's no numbers, there's a Blackhawk helicopter, I want it, oh my God, now just because this is so new to the. schedule when because when you have an antidote for a weapon, terrorists can use it as a weapon, so they didn't know who you know, not everyone in the government knew who I was, even though I was working with a biodefense project, you know which still was. some kind of unknown entity and I filed a patent application on this and then I told my manager to close the business and give everyone cultures of this mushroom that was a gerakan.
I don't want to know who made them go out of business and everyone spread it. we decentralized attack our target but wait so let me stop you right there so you are in Canada Jorma Canada Abbas we are in the United States okay in Washington state and helicopters are flying over your lab what What happens then? Well They were trying to scare us, they were scaring us and we sued on purpose. They were doing the purpose. They were floating to let you know they were there. I don't know what they were doing. I mean, there's a treetop level right above the damn one. lab, so I had everyone go to our car.
I asked everyone to get in the car, close the business immediately and decentralize us as a target, so later when I got back I called my people at the Department of Defense and told them what the right was. Hell is happening here I think, oh dear, you know, sometimes the left hand doesn't talk to the right, we're sorry, so finally, how did you guys find out? Simply because of your patent application, well, the patent, I filed the patent and it almost completely disappeared. Patent applications when filed appear on the US patent home page within a year or two.
I filed his patent and four or five years later it still hadn't been published, so I called my patent attorney, who contacted the Patent Office. and the United States Department of Defense considered it an act of natural security so they quarantined my patent, they took it out of the Patent Office and so that it could not be seen by possible terrorists because then it could have an antidote for smallpox so I had to do the intergovernmental, a government agency tracked down to withdraw the patent from the Department of Defense in the meetings that they let out to be released because it was a natural product, so the patent was put back in the queue of patent applications and it was approved in 2013.
I found it in 2004. So now we have worked at the University of Mississippi School of Pharmacy. We have isolated two new molecules against smallpox. We have also worked at the Tuberculosis Research Institute with Dr. Scott Franzblau and the University of Illinois at Chicago, we have identified a new anti-tuberculosis molecule, a gerakan and die square in its time and Greek culture was used to treat consumption which later became known as tuberculosis. We have discovered that the extracts of this fungus are properly active against bacteria and viruses, most people who die of viral pneumonia actually died of bacterial pneumonia, they contract a viral infection which they owe to their immune system above amps and It is a response to flooding and the lungs become flooded with liquid bacteria which usually creates bacterial pneumonia. it kills people who actually get the flu virus, they die from bacterial pneumonia, so finding natural products with dual activity against viruses and bacteria is medically significant, so it's a good argument for natural products because there is a consortium of protective agents that live in this soup of this extract that can helpprotect you, so we are now discovering molecules active against HPV, the human papillomavirus. 70% or more of women have HPV.
This is a very controversial vaccine, apparently it is very dangerous. Well, I'm not anti. oxidation of evacuees, but me neither, but I am curious to know why they do not recommend the vaccine after age 24. I can't understand the sexually active kids thing, well your second octave out by age 24 so why? when they are tight but sexually active before then, but if you didn't have the infection before 24 and you are still active at 24:00, why wouldn't they recommend vaccines at mid 24, maybe there is an amendment? post 24 is that we use 24, plus post 24 is not recommended because they think maybe you already have it.
I don't know the answer to that, that's strange. I've never been able to get someone to explain to me what. Fungi can suppress the expression of this is that we are saying that the ingredients within the fungi we have found five molecules authenticated by NIH virology as being potently active against HPV, which causes all the polypores that I have been talking about They are probably Reishi Gerakan Amadou. I can't say that de facto they all have varying amounts of these components, so these mushroom extracts are a great consortium of antiviral and antibacterial compounds. Now, as I mentioned, there may be five million species of fungi, there are about 150,000. fungal species that we have identified we identify about 14,000, so think about them, just from experience, all the evidence of thousands of years of human experimentation, it would be like if you went to a library and there were 14,000 books in your library. 14,000 species that our ancestors began to select. each of these species and by testing them we have narrowed the field to approximately 200 species of which 50 species are superstars that have no adverse effects on human ingestion that have been used for a very long period of time and within that set of 50 species We're finding these fungi that have tremendous potential health benefit, which is why I'm so excited in the field of my ecology because we have translational science, we've applied my ecology and I think based on what we've discovered, we can make the argument that we should save old-growth forests as a matter of national defense, our fungal genetic genomes are essential for our future and present survival, the more we eliminate these landscapes of biodiversity, the more we lose senescal agents that can fight disease, etc.
This is something that I think we can build a bridge between conservatives and liberals because Osama bin Laden and having access to an ancient forest, you know we did it and we have it and I think this is really indicative of a lot of other things that we can discover if we pay attention to the vast genomic resources we have in the biodiversity of ecosystems that are still intact now. Do you recommend any particular mushroom for personal consumption, any particular supplement? In terms of gourmet mushroom recommendations, I can make them. In terms of recommendations for medicinal mushrooms, I can't make a recommendation, so I'm legally bound by the FDA.
I can't make recommendations. Can you recommend a website that might recommend it well? I recommend eating gourmet mushrooms for freshly eaten shiitake, lion's mane, maitake and reishi. and chaga and all of these have medical benefits too he's all I don't know the difference between a gourmet mushroom and medicinal or medicinal and just mushrooms yeah all gourmet mushrooms are medicinal mushrooms really social taki mushrooms are medicinal shiitake mushrooms are very very medicinal The big stars at the moment are reishi chaga and lion's mane. What about Portobello? They taste too good. They can't be that good for you.
The Portobellos have a problem. I knew everything. All mushrooms should be cooked and Portobellos in particular should be cooked at high temperatures. Why is there an unfortunate group of compounds called Garrett Teens? Garrett Teens are hydrazines that are heat unstable, so the good news is that you have to cook them, and if you cook them right, there will be mold or another problem if you don't cook them. If you don't cook them properly, then these hydrazines are potentially problematic. Now nature is a numbers game, so there are beneficial compounds that, in some balance, can offset the negative effects of the hydrazines that Agera finds in these mushrooms, but that jury is still out, so what are they? ?
The negative benefit or negative effects of this is an area of explosive conversation and puts my life in danger, so I reserve the right not to answer a question. I didn't expect him to put your life in danger by talking about portobello mushrooms. looking at me silently i will respectfully move on thank you so anyone who is interested just google contact me you know next i will have a guy who will be the same height as
pauland will have a mask and we will. We will have some kind of electrical box that distorts the voice, no, but the good news is to tell you the story, yes, there are many mushrooms that have tremendous benefit and there are compounds within portobello mushrooms that are very beneficial and, in fact, there are a positive study with some breast cancer patients breast cancer study showing that mushrooms can confer benefits, so yes, we were funded by the NIH with 2.2 million dollars for a breast cancer clinical study on the turkey tail mushrooms and turkey tail mushrooms are fantastic as complements to conventional therapy this clinical study was conducted funded by the nih and at the university of minnesota school of medicine in mr.
McCall College showed a dose-response curve specifically and supported the immune system by taking turkey tail mushrooms and the more you took it, the more benefits there were. I have a very popular TEDMED talk in front of 800 doctors, where my mother, who faced the challenge of having advanced stage 4 breast cancer, who is now 90 years old and almost 93 years old, had advanced stage 4 breast cancer when She was 84 years old and had less than a few months to live and she had metastatic tumors throughout her body or in her breasts she was developing a very serious carcinoma and today she is alive and completely recovered.
She underwent chemotherapy with Herceptin. and a little bit of short-lived attacks, all of them she had a very bad reaction, all attacks, but now scientific articles have been published that say that the components of the turkey tail mushroom help conventional therapies such as Herceptin chemotherapy and make Herceptin works better, so there is a good combination. of Integrative Medicine with the use of natural products with conventional medicine. I will never say that you should not consult a doctor. I would never say that conventional medicine should not be used. Yes, the state of the art of science is there, but the state of science. the art of science is that we can regulate immunity with these mushrooms and that is the first line of defense and then the other conventional therapies that are practiced now combine very, very well according to many doctors and reports that show that the combination of mushrooms Turkey tail in combination with conventional therapy can make a significant difference in improving your illogical defense.
Now I absolutely agree with you that conventional treatments are state of the art and this is cutting edge science when you talk about When treating cancer, you should deal with oncologists who are at the forefront, but they are not the most advanced when it comes to preventing these things and that's a big problem that a lot of people have when it comes to it. to nutrition, lifestyle, stress mitigation, all the various factors that contribute to a lot of different health ailments, do you think mushrooms could play a factor in that as well? Absolutely, there's a big epidemiological study that came out of Japan and Dr.
Ichikawa was an edema. Specialists working for the National Cancer Center in Tokyo noticed and surveyed people in Japan in the 1960s and early 1970s, there was a shortage, a drop, and the overall rate of cancer and this population and the perfection in Japan, so he was sent there by the National Cancer Center in Tokyo by the government to say what are these people doing in this group of villages where they have statistically significantly lower rates of cancer, we're talking about 30 percent less than the national average and, after an exhaustive study, he found that many of them were eating enoki mushrooms because enoki mushrooms are very thin and with very tall stems, you buy them in the store, well, as far as the big centers are growing enoki mushrooms there and then the ones with blemishes are called reverted, no we don't.
Don't you know how to sell to the public the ones that have small spots or are deformed but they give them to the workers and that's why they are workers and then their families consume a higher per capita consumption of enoki mushrooms than the other residents of Japan? They then discovered that specifically consuming enoki mushrooms resulted in a statistically significant reduction in cancer across the board. I think more than 220,000 people in this epidemiological survey. I've written about 10 articles for Huffington Post and you can Google Stamets Huffington Post. and enoki mushrooms and see all the quotes about enoki mushrooms about lion's mane in the gerakan all these mushrooms i'm talking about are all medical approved and peer reviewed they are all very short articles but they summarize a lot of the research what I'm talking about, it's amazing, what do you know about the cordyceps fungus?
I know quite a bit about cordyceps, yes I'm fascinated for two reasons, one because of a supplement I take that my company makes called shroom tech sport, sorry. The name, my apologies in advance, but it is based on athletic performance. The shrimp technology is based on Cordyceps and B12 and a bunch of different adaptogens and the idea is that when you take that, athletic performance benefits endurance and oxygen utilization, and apparently I discovered this because it's weird because they grow it in a caterpillar, do you know all that? Yes, Cordyceps has now been divided into several different genera, yes, so I was going to mention another one, the one that explodes in ants, yes.
There is a SEP quarter census, now known as a Pheo quarter census, a quarter step has about 500 species, it has been a very complicated taxonomy because when researchers went to the Himalayas and found these caterpillars where they came from Cordyceps mushrooms were very good scientists. and they did this, what I would do, they would take it to a lab, open it up and take a piece of tissue from the inside which is called cloning, so you just capture their genetic material and grow the culture, very confusing because there are five different fungi they are called Animorphs cordyceps is a dimorphic fungus, what that means, there are two forms, it has a mold state and a fungus state, the fungus snake appears as a small club, it looks like your finger, come on, you know, orange , orange the little finger comes out of the ground so you can find that jam and yes, so they say defeated caterpillar.
I can't actually see the species there, but it looks like they're beetles, so there are several species of course, so when there's a lot of scientific dispute about which one is the real Animorph now, like two sides of the same coin, you see the cordyceps and then you clone it and you get this mold growing and then people will grow the mold, now we know there are several species. of molds that grow inside the caterpillar, so the true cat, except for a quarter-step census, is now identified as hirsute. Ella's consensus is the true one. Basilio my C's and meta resume and all these others do not consider themselves the true organism that they are. chasing the other fourth SEP mold inside the fungus.
Wow, I'm going to go over many, many, many, a polyculture polycomb, since a poly requires several different animal pathogenic fungi, these are in front of the insects that they kill, so I mean, this is very, this is very disruptive. because all the FDA on labeling, how what is done and who is right and who is wrong and how do you make the labeling conform to the current taxonomy based on DNA research, the good news is based on the best of my knowledge , several of These companies that sell these quarter-step animorphs, although they may not be the true core substances, also confer benefits, so one can argue in a sense about different species.
The problem with this is that there are no less than a thousand peer reviewed articles on cordyceps and Ensis and no one or almost no one knows which species they were actually growing so why don't we know which of these animals they were actually growing there was this recent information that all very recent in the last four or five years and especially in the last two years, so wow, the taxonomy is changing because of the PCR amplification of the DNA in the region of the DNA that they have chosen, they amplify it, they are idiosyncratic to the species now that history has changed, complete sequencing of thegenome is really The only way to do it with a whole genome sequence, so there's a lot of elasticity or plasticity and the expression of the DNA, going back to what we've been talking about throughout this interview, epigenesis, epigenesis, is the emulation of the around. of influence on the genomic expression of the individual, of the species, and therefore you regulate or activate genes that would otherwise be dormant, so what we are seeing now is that epigenetic influences can cause different DNA expressions, so What was considered Before there was a conformity of a species and a type of DNA like 99% and it was thought that, oh, these are the same species, now we know that that is very inaccurate, so what was accurate a few years ago It was considered very inaccurate today, science is changing a lot. very quickly and the regulatory environment can't catch up, so it doesn't really matter except for the following, and this is what I do.
I make a recommendation here: make sure your mushrooms or any product you are consuming is certified organic and do not buy them. from China, anyone who has been to China. I have been to China several times. The mass amount of air pollution there is horrendous and the Chain of Custody, as we call it, where these people get their mushrooms nowadays, often the distributors mix up the suppliers and it's a form of Russian roulette in quotes, we've tested mushrooms of Chinese origin and they have had up to 2200 parts per million of lead, where two or three capsules are toxic, so why would you take a medicinal mushroom that is contaminated with heavy metals and pesticides if you are trying to improve your immune system at the same time you are sabotaging your own immune system, so getting mushrooms from clean environments is vitally important, unfortunately because the USDA Organic Program can borrow from their organic programs from China and still say there are organic mushrooms certified, so you really need to buy certified organic mushrooms grown in the US that have a clear chain of custody and hopefully one that comes from a reputable supplier or scientist and not someone who is just trying to make money .
There are a lot of opportunistic companies right now. we are just trying to blow up and jump on the medicinal mushroom popularity bandwagon without really doing our homework or fully informing the public that there are mushrooms that actually come from China when they are not what is the cordyceps mushroom strain that pops that infects ants, kills them, sprouts from them, then explodes and infects ants near them and other ants will drag that ant knowing it's infected deep into the forest, well, it moves away from the colony just a quarter step, sir, I'm on the screen, wait, yes of course, use di, you know unilateralis is another one of many of these zombie movies, you've been saying they were based on Cordyceps and Knox, it was actually a Hannibal Lecter character, you were, yes. in this series I think it's number five and this L I think Alvin Stannis was an anesthesiologist there was a last name, yeah, use my last name and they just call you Paul, well they do in Star Trek.
I'm a character, yes, I know, yes, actually. call me Paul Stan was on Star Trek but Hannibal Lector that show that people always write to me said, "Oh my God, you're this evil doctor who overdoses his patients on drugs and then puts them in the backyard and then inoculates them with fungi like cordyceps, you know, you have mushrooms in the backyard and some people from Star Trek called me in August of 2016. I'm talking to them, CBS, you know, it's fixed, they have to talk to you, that's all my TED talk and and They said Paul was the writers of the Star Trek Discovery series.
We're a little stuck. You know, we want to talk to you. We saw your TED talk. We're really interested. I'm going to wait a second. Are you the one who put me on? the Hubble Lecter, says, yeah, I'm going, let's do it right this time, you know, so I said, okay, I said stupidly before, maybe for my benefit, I stupidly said, turn on your recorder, you know, give me the general idea and let me continue with it and They said, "Okay, go ahead, there are six." I guess on the conference call I foolishly said I'm a Star Trek fan, which isn't stupid, but I don't want money for these ideas.
I give them all my intellectual property. I want science fiction. To predict a scientific fact, the best thing about Star Trek is the flip phone and the iPad. I mean, they were on Star Trek and then they became a reality. I said you have a unique opportunity here to shape our future. Let's collaborate to create a future that is better for our future generations by inspiring students and young people to get excited about science so that they can help populate universities to create inventions that can help save this planet that is in danger, so I presented a Star Trek theme and I just watched the latest episode last night and astromycologist Paul Stamets is using the mycelium spore engine that he has become.
He couldn't believe it. We're watching this and Star Trek. The main theme of Star Trek is based on mycelium and concepts. that I gave them, they've worked this out, I mean, six ways as of Sunday, so they've really taken it as a kind of propulsion system, it's a partisan system because in my TED talk and I've been talking about it for a long time . about the networks, we have the mycelial network, we have the computer network, we have the neurological network and our brains in the dark matter organization conform to string theory, so these are three are katha, the same archetype, the same dimensional structures stacked on top of each other. and nature builds on its previous successes so networks reward themselves by surviving and it was catastrophic so I said and I am still bound by confidentiality and there is an incredibly strict confidentiality agreement that I can only affirm that has been publicly displayed, but the sport of mycelium allows it. through the internet of nature you could say that you can go to hyperspace immediately by taking advantage of the mycelial archetype, so astromycologist amis is now connecting to the mycelial network of the universe and they can jump instead of using their standard hyperdrives, which You see them broadcasting for four hours from one part of the university to the other, they can appear immediately and then disappear, is this something you think will actually be real one day?
Okay, you know what? pushing the envelope, baby, it does, pushing the envelope in this case, but if you look at the multiverse and I've had one or two multiverse experiences in particular where time and reality have changed in a way that I can't explain. So what do you mean it's so incredibly deep that I still can't understand it? And these are psilocybin experiences, psilocybin experiences, so I think psilocybin experience could be a one rule portal and now I'm going to sound like Terence Mckenna, a ring of providers. in the multiverse, the idea that time can bend, that there are multiple universes occurring simultaneously in different realities and I've had one particular experience that is just unfathomable to me, I don't know how to explain it, it's an opportunity, okay?
I'll try it and you've already blown me away 50 times today. Is it a very personal experience for me? But, um, I was uh, I went to Evergreen State College. I had a license from the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and my brother John went. to Yale University obtained a graduate fellowship in neurophysiology at the University of Washington came to Washington State in Seattle I lived in Olympia Washington I had a cabin in the mountains near Darrington Washington then during one summer for three years I sat in chokers He was a logger. I truly believe in the school of hard knocks and combining academia with hard workers' work.
I loved chopping wood. I loved driving a chainsaw. I love hard work. I think I can give my mind a break. I think so. I'm in this highly academic environment. My brother John unfortunately died two years ago. He sued me and got me involved in mushrooms, so I'm going to go ahead and set the stage here, but he needed another two minutes to set the stage. here, so I'm growing up in a small town in Ohio called Columbiana, my brother John says he goes to Yale, he comes back one day and gives me a book he's using for his class, but he's on break and he says, "I never really X fasting that John went to Mexico Colombia returned with great stories about how to heat suicidal fungi and was my older brother.
He simply idolized him and his book was called altered states of consciousness and then I told John, can you lend me your book? He said sure. And I said, But Paul, you come back, you know, my break is over. I'm going back to university, it's like part of our textbook, so I bought your book. Altered States of Consciousness. I'm fascinated reading it. You know about all these different ways to expand your consciousness I'm fourteen years old and my best friend Ryan Schneider says Paul, can I borrow your book? Anyway, we're together all the time. I need him back, so he bought my book and He doesn't, give it back one day, you know, several days passed, a week passed, you know, two weeks passed, my brother comes back during the holidays.
I said he needed that book. Paul and I are going with Ryan. I'm going with Ryan. I need my book. I need my book and Ryan. I kept avoiding answering the topic until he finally gives me my book and Ryan says: I can't give it to you Paul. I told him why this is what my dad burned it. I see your dad burned my brothers' book. Wow, WTF. I didn't use this. phrase at that time I said oh my god and I have a shout out to Ryan Snyder's father who because of that event further stimulated my interest in altered states of consciousness so John goes to Yale and goes to the University of Washington I have this permission from the DEA I'm at Evergreen State College John calling me, I say Paul I think I found some suicide mushrooms Johnson, you're very smart, you've been collecting salafi cubensis, Colombia and Mexico, but you know they're so much more. complicated here and then I said, let me ask you some questions, I said, okay, John, you take a spore print, he says, yeah, I'm going like spores, purple color, Brown, he says, yeah, they're purple, Brown, I'm going fine , okay, no, John, does he have a separable gelatinous film and he says what is that? and I go, I break the lid, these are growing on wood chips, great, it breaks the lid and separates the lid very slowly.
Do you see some skin that is translucent? He breaks it, he says, yes, you see that skin. John is growing on wood chips and he says, yes I go, but it turns blue, it turns blue, yes, they are turning a very bright blue, oh wow, I said John, how many did you find?, he says. You wouldn't believe it, there's a huge amount, I said. Wait, I say, but he and Paul are a very sensitive place, you better come here right away, so I got in my car and drove from Olympia to Seattle about 6070 miles. I arrived at his house and me and John ran the errand and came out fine.
Where are we going so well? We need some grocery bags, you know, let's get on our bikes and go down there. I'm going why all the secrecy and the problem is that well, you see, it was the end of Boat Street. and right at the University of Washington, right off University Avenue, is Boat Street and we got there and right across the street is a police substation, so we were there and it was an eruption of this fungus that had to be ten thousand thirty thousand. mushrooms I don't know, it was about 50 feet by 30 feet, if it was all multiple wood chips, there was an eruption that picked up, you know, trash and debris that piled up six inches with solid mushrooms or mushrooms everywhere.
This day we had never seen so many mushrooms in a concentrated area so we waited until the police cars left and we were like idle there and then the police cars will leave and by the substation we started earning a lot for picking up my friend and us. I felt like the shopping went back to where it was and then the other students were walking around why are you doing oh nothing you know and we finally got there yeah there's a lot to go around so it was pretty good everyone hung up and I was a little group like at the bus stop, we're not actually waiting for the bus, we're waiting for the police cars to leave, and then we picked up all these mushrooms, so we have about eight or ten grocery bags full of these mushrooms in the shift.
It turned out to be a new species called the philosophical spoon, look, I'm named after a new species, new species, new, since it hadn't been discovered before by describing images in scientific literature, so you picked a fungus that no one knew existed, well , we've been It hasn't been described scientifically, we've known about it for about three years, but this is the largest eruption and from that collection it became part of the type collection that anchored the species taxonomically, so I think some of the specimens They still exist in their barrier. all over the world because it's the gold standard, so we come home and it's like we have to dry them, so we spread out the newspapers and all the newspapers were covered in fungus and that night and we were like the four Yale kids all in neurophysiology allscientists and in the scientists and Trackman says eat them and I mean this is not very potent they are 1/10 the potency of cubensis so we made smoothies oh my gosh we talked about the gag reflex.
We had made these shakes, we had eaten 50 of them to have an equivalent dose. Westlaw Talk Events Team, this would be so I knew so we made incredibly disgusting milkshakes and threw them here and drank them and then it was an amazing experience. Attached to my brother it was beautiful and then you're reaching the peak of the experience, you look around like tens of thousands of these Muslims like, oh my God, all for science, so I go to bed and I'm lying down about it and you already know it. -Wasted experience and you know, I can barely sleep because all the colors keep me awake and my mind is racing and then I have a lucid dream and I'm dreaming and I wake up and I go downstairs.
I had this crazy dream. I said what's your dream and I said I saw thousands of dead cattle baking in the sun I said I think there will be a nuclear war Well what could kill all these cattle? You know, there was a time when the Reagan administration and all that and you know. attention was very high between the Soviet Union and the United States and they said they were joking with me saying oh well, okay, you know what's going to happen. Go. I know I was in Olympia and I needed to run to Darington to stay in my cabin because my books were up there my manuscript was up there I need to save save my research so they laughed and laughed and said well, when is the world going to end?
Paul and I are going, well it's not this weekend, I thought in two days it's next weekend, so they wrote on the calendar December 1st. I put it in my book about 1975, the end of the world. They wrote Paul predicts the end of the world, so we forget it. Massive rain next week. Large amounts of snow. and then on wednesday thursday the temperature reversed and went up to 75 to 85 degrees all the snow started melting all the rivers were overflowing and my little cabin was right next to this river that would swell from that day on, It wasn't in the morning tonight. it would go up six feet just from the snow melting because so close to this volcano and big glaciers I said oh my god I'm going to lose my driving I kept all my research I need to get there I need to get there and that's why I'm watching the news on the news and the roads are closing so how do I get through Rockport Washington on the back road to get back to my cabin?
I got to my cabin and the sidewalk eroded about three meters. I was only about 10 12. meters from the river now my cabin was about to fall into a pike my manuscript I got all my books you know I rescued all the material I had but I couldn't get out of there because the roads have been closed, so I had the right to wait two days, two days and then the roads opened and I came out of the valley into the Snohomish Valley and I came around the bend and there the sun was a bright sunny day, a warm day and they are floating in the fields with hundreds and hundreds of dead cattle.
How do you explain that I entered? I think not in the multiverse, as a scientist you realize when you say something like that you expose yourself to ridicule. Do you feel reluctant to communicate this? degree, yes, but you know I'm 62 years old and you know at one point you don't care, I just don't care, you know this is true, this happened to me and I can go beyond these ideas because the credibility of my research is well established I can save the bees Do you mind if I have taken sulfur mushrooms? If I can save your farm, your family, your country or the world, billions of dollars to protect biosecurity.
I care more. I care more. That's how it is. I'm telling you things. I'm not making these up and I'll make more. There's no need. Just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it's not true, and I think we need to accept the fact that reality is not limited to the perception we have traditionally used, that's a beautiful way to describe it, let's get it over with, that's perfect, thanks brother Paul, thank you very much, I'm so glad you came here and thank you to all the people who recommended you and got excited about your work.
Could we do this again? I would love to please you. Okay, and if people want to dig deeper into your stuff, mushrooms calm down and what was the other website and the attack host, host communication, defense, calm down and. there's a ton of other information about the TED talk and I have a forward slash on youtube.com, Paul Stamets and Louie Schwartzberg's site, they shout, we have a fantastic calm on mushrooms, check it out. Louie is now releasing a movie that describes many of the things, thank you very much. very good thanks brother
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