# How Hard Should Simracing Be? (not actually answered)

Jun 02, 2021
Hello everyone, today I would like to talk about how difficult it

#### should

be, how difficult Simracing filming

#### should

be and I will start right away by telling you that there will not be an answer to that question, but there may be some things that we can do. Let's talk first, though, I don't think I've shown you my best thing in the entire room, a small tile that the cold ones gave me for my birthday. There's some interesting factual information before I start this video, so I've been doing a couple of videos recently about tire data and how different they are and how unreliable they are, so it made me wonder: what do we all want out of realism? in our racing simulations, but what is realism and that's what I want to talk about? so let's get straight to the point: when you do a racing simulation, you get the right data, you get something from the race teams, from the manufacturer, from the tire companies, but it's never 100% complete, sometimes things are just missing, for For example, if you work for an At Dallara, where they make a lot of different cars, as you probably know, you get information from them, for example, about aerodynamics.
They usually put their scale model of a car in a wind tunnel and the test areas are high so you can get a good idea of ​​how sensitive the arrow is, that's great, but the wind tunnel is small, It's a scale model and you never really know what kind of correlation you get with reality, you would expect and assume it's certainly not bad, but what's the tolerance? there 2% 5% 10% it is also very difficult to know many times that the data is only for a car going in a straight line and sometimes you also get a little bit of data from the side, but that is usually very limited to free or maybe six degrees, which means you know you don't want to be at an angle greater than six degrees most of the time, but in a simulator, if you make a mistake or have a little bit of oversteer, you might have moments that exceed those slip angles, so ideally you would have internal data at 15 or 20 degrees, which is the worst case scenario that you'll find when making a mistake on the real track, so that's something that, even though they provide an arrow The data is from a scale model, so it will not correlate perfectly because Winter Knowles.

## how hard should simracing be not actually answered...

I don't know what the precision is, you know, but there will be so many precisions and they don't measure at all the conditions that could occur with the real car. tires we talk about, you often don't get the data and well you have to watch my previous video on this, but today that's not always reliable and also it only covers a small range of slip and slide where it could be reliable although it probably isn't. So, a lot of things are missing, but you also get a lot of things that are more reliable in Dallara car manuals.
In this example, you get things like where the suspension pickup points are, information about the shocks and spring rates and thrill ratios and the dimensions of the whole thing, you know, there's a lot of useful information in there, but even then I have seen some mistakes because these people at Dallara, of course, I do their job and I do the best I can, but they are not the racing team that builds this car and they depend on the accuracy of the data to win the championship, so Many times cars only change a little from season to season and maybe they missed a small update.
Do not update a manual or the manual, so a small error appears and many times you will see reviews where some error was found and updated, in other words this is nothing against these manufacturers, just people work there, makes mistakes and even if the data is known and I want to give you the data from time to time, there may be something introduced that comes from the last generation car or it is corrected in some other way, so just there is your data, be it whatever you get and it doesn't matter if your iRacing is If you raise your studies or turn 10 years old, who does forza?
The data you get will not be complete and accurate, just impossible, so what else do you get? Hopefully telemetry, that means you drive the car on the track and then plug it in. on the computer and you download the data, you can also do it in most Sims and you see the g forces, the speeds, the suspension position, all right, first of all, that's very time dependent. Telemetry systems in cars are quite simple and you can use GPS, for example, for many things, so it is a global positioning satellite. Here is the satellite. There's your car.
Yeah, a more accurate satellite like that and then the satellite checks where the car is and how fast it's going and things like that. It's a great idea. but the accuracy is not great, especially if you have fast transitions or spikes like breaking suddenly. The GPS is quite low and therefore the accuracy is not always great, but the speed could probably be realistic if you have a long straight GPS. If we do it one hour ahead, it can be quite accurate, but that's just one thing. Many times they get the speed of the car. How did they get the speed of the car right?
The rotation speed of tigers, for example, is often used to calculate the speed of the car and that seems to make sense, but in reality it doesn't make sense at all. It's good enough, but the tire grows and shrinks a little depending on the downforce and the speed at which it's spinning now. It is not like this. a lot and it is not the same, we are getting more complicated there are no more spreadsheets, although, curiously, even if a tire is flattened, the actual radius with which you have to calculate to obtain the speed does not change as much as it is flattened, so That difference is small, but there is still a difference and by simply using a constant to multiply the rotation speed of the tires to get the actual speed of the car, it will deviate by a couple of miles per hour 10 on the straight or a couple of miles per hour at low speed, there will be some tolerances there are, and they are real sensors on a real car, they are not reliable and the sensors on the real car, all if there are tolerances and I need to be calibrated most of the time, that depends how good the person in charge of the sensors is. equipment, how good your senses are, the sensors are very expensive so maybe you know a replacement is long overdue but you will use them for another year or you know they are installed but they wobble a little so there is a bit of inaccuracy. there or the calibration is a little bit off, so you don't really know that if you read data from a sensor and it says this in so many millimeters or this pressure, there will also be a tolerance there, even though it is real data, there is a slight tolerance and if you measure the acceleration of the car, the g force is not done by a GPS but with a g force sensor and an accelerometer somewhere in the car, it really depends on where you put it in the car if it's not in the center gravity of the car. but very far in front, in the back, and you get fast rotations, you may also see some incorrect values ​​of the G forces and I have also seen the calibration being incorrect, causing a car to go perfectly straight with a steering wheel like this. a straight line somehow shifted half a G to the left, that's something telemetry is ideal, you want it, it's useful, but there's a lot going on that's not entirely accurate, so it's very important to do it and, Sometimes with telemetry you can try to derive things correctly, so if you don't know for sure what the car's aerodynamics are, you can always apply some sensors, like height sensors or strain gauges on the suspension, to try to measure the loads. in suspension. and the right heights and then you can derive the aerodynamics, maybe which is definitely something you can do, but then you're using these sensors and you're doing calculations on them and they're all going to have their tolerances and you're driving a car.
On the straight you don't know what water, wind conditions are important, it's always a bit bumpy so you have to average a lot of data and it's definitely useful, it's not absolute, there will always be a bit of tolerance, that's what I am . What I'm saying is real data, what you get from the manufacturer, from the tires, from the car, from the engine, everything has its tolerances, some have large tolerances, others have very small tolerances, there is human error in the data and the telemetry of the car when the track has its tolerances and errors too, plus the telemetry of the real car is no longer objective because it is driven by a driver and who knows, maybe you have the most professional and fastest guy on the planet, but even two guys with similar speed They could have different styles. so you can't really interpret the way the car drives to a certain extent from the telemetry because two people may drive it slightly differently or a lot of times you're working with data from a guy who's not a world champion and you I have to wonder, okay?
You see just brake too soon. Here it lacks some speed in the middle of the curve. You know you're not necessarily looking at the limits of the car all the time when you have telemetry, so it raises more questions than answers, which is the case for me. I guess it's kind of trademarked now, so there's really no way you can be 100% sure you're getting good data and the telemetry is unreliable, so let me go to the simulator. The simulator, of course, is a very complicated physics engine and the physics models are not complicated either. precise, correct and never complete, there are always things that are not modeled or more things correctly, so you have a lot of real data that is not completely random at all, but there is definitely a pretty big tolerance in that, then you have your simulator which also has its tolerances. and it's unrealistic and you kind of have to put the two together, so I just want to point out that before you even start driving something in a simulator, there are a lot of things that you just don't know and that includes things like how it's

### hard

to remember what the The tire data we had doesn't give you accurate information about what it's like when you're going sideways and the arrow data.
If you get something that's great, you might not get it any further than this side and you might not get the downforce levels when you're this far to the side, so there are such a number of parameters involved that a lot of them just don't work. you know them for sure, that means that when you make your simulator, subjectivity cannot be avoided, you can never say this is how this is. It's realistic almost all the time there is tolerance and question marks, so what it comes down to is that many times you feel the simulator well, that's what you drive, it's a subjective sensation of what you experience, but what are some?
There are problems, well a lot of times people say that in a simulator there are no G forces, which is true, some people test the movement, but that tends to add randomly incorrect G forces instead of the real ones, so a lot of times the emotion definitely. Anyway, it doesn't add realism from a G-forces point of view, maybe vibrations and stuff like that, but not really some in G-forces, but in G-forces, whether you have them or not, I'm not so sure . I'm, you know, a big question mark here too. I'm kind of a living question mark here.
Does it make it

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er or easier if you don't have G forces? You might say, well, you don't feel this. like you're not in the car, you don't feel the G forces, it's more difficult, but racing cars are like a Formula 2 car, super rigid, they make you bounce on the straight, your teeth fall out and then you have to hit the brake pedal if it's 290 pounds or 140 kilos of force and you somehow have to keep your brain focused during all of this in a simulator, you have the Serenity so you can really focus on what your leg is doing, what make your arms and your eyes.
They're not shaking out of their orbits, so I'm not so sure if the lack of G-forces is

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making it harder or easier. It's very difficult to know, isn't it? So I wouldn't automatically assume that a sim is harder to drive due to a lack of g-forces, maybe I'm not saying that's the case, but you could come up with an argument that says, well, maybe the ferocity and violence of the Real races are

## actually

coming into play. The right feel and finesse behind the wheel, who knows, is something to think about and when you go from reality to simulation, there is a lack of awareness and also a feeling of speed.
I have hardly done any real time on the track. but the feeling of approaching a corner at 100-odd miles per hour in a real car versus casually being in a simulator while I'm texting on your phone and now I'm thinking about doing the dishes is different, right? It's just the difference of being a game. ultimately it's still a game or real life where things are actually happening, there's a big difference of awareness and also a feeling of speed, it's not so much the feeling of speed but it could be too but just a feeling of well, this is it.
Actually, what I'm doing now has consequences. InBy comparison, I'm in a simulator and I'm just having fun. What I have resolved is that maybe in the simulator you are too confident, you are driving too much. too fast, whereas in real life you think two, three or four times before adding another five miles per hour on that corner, which makes it very difficult to compare the simulator and the real thing and what you feel and what you do in a simulator it's probably not what you feel, what you would have done in the real car, just some of what you know, another thing like this about some kind of summary of the video, I have no idea, but you know something to think about Things like force feedback, sometimes Force feedback can be very informative and very fast to the point where you wonder if it's really that useful in real life or if it's actually a little overdone in the simulation.
I don't know. I've heard drivers say it's pretty good afterwards. a driver says it is to answer if there is a lot of time in a simulator I value the opinion of both people, again there is the face, you know it is not that simple, but it helps a lot, of course, if your force feedback is very yours: you It helps drive the car and makes it easier, or should. It's going to be harder to complicate it now, um braking, you might know that I design and build simple brake pedals, but how can you compare the braking to reality and how it feels in the simulator?
It's different even if everything is set up the same way in real life you have that ferocity Firelands is right and a strategy to fight and you hit the brakes you feel like they hit you in the back of the head just that violence can you really have a good idea what the sim is? Having that violence not be there is fair, it's just really different. The Fratto mapping, for example, may be different in the simulator than in the real car because, guess what, the data I mentioned is always complete. Throttle engine mapping apps are rarely present, so you have to do one of those and hope to be somewhere nearby, so even if the driver applies an identical Fratto in the simulator, it may not always result in the same actual acceleration of the car as it would in real life, no different data, does it feel and how accurate Are you on a photo pedal when you have a stiff car, you're bouncing and you're approaching a tire barrier and you're supposed to go and accelerate gently?
It's different from being in the simulator and being smooth and having control and I don't have any of those worries so some, just some, you know a big difference and I can go on forever so I'll set up the simulator wrong. How often have you seen people driving around with strange fields or have such big TVs, especially a few years ago? they were terrible with the input lag which makes driving much harder even though they could be playing the same game, the same simulator as anyone else with better settings who would find it easier so imagine and Tree life forces input lag on your rear wheel.
On one side and then the other, you have a guy with direct streaming and a low-lag gaming monitor playing completely different games, although I'll be playing the same one, but things like that make a big difference. Also it seems like things like pedal linearity if you don't check that box like curvature in the pedal use a load cell pedal you want it to be linear people don't always do that feel a strange sensation when pressing stupidly at some point to get a response Additional, for example, things like I will play your role, but another important one is your expectations, you are a boy or a girl, it happens playing a racing game, what do you expect from it? you are good?
Do you feel like you are? And now there's a story here, he's a boy. who does some physical editing and modifies the cars until they do the same lap times as real Formula One drivers and with that car on that track now maybe their great driver could be fair, but the reality is that it is not. That's cool, so why do you think you have the skills of true champions? So where do you stand on the skills you think you have? A really modest driver might say, "Well, you know, I'm probably not very good at this." I've driven a little bit, but I was never really a champion, so the fact that I do a lot of turns in the simulator is probably fair, while there will be a lot and guys, you know, people overestimate themselves all the time, it's only human, many people.
I'll say, well, I'm a pretty good driver if I'm not out of turn one on the third lap, the simulator is bad, these people exist too, right, and that's a very, very important thing, guys, how many times do you see a youtuber? Drive a car in a simulator and wait a second if he can do it. You know, it's just a matter of your expectations: how good you are, how good you think you are, how good you think you can drive a car and how hard it is. simulation has so many variables right it's crazy and then of course there's the holy grail of real driver feedback how often do you go on a forum or some vlog or any blog where you find people and I don't like it the handling and then you haven't driven it in real life you can't judge well can you write? we already mentioned some differences between reality and simulation they are not the same guess what and not all real drivers are automatically good drivers a lot of people drive racing cars and some are decent, some are great, some are not so good, so that It's already a big difference, and even if you're a real good driver, you might not be able to adapt as well to the lack of G-forces, the lack of awareness of being there, turning like the violence of everything with the G-forces and now being in a serene environment maybe you're just struggling or you have one of those misconfigured sims so you're a really good driver but on the sim you crash all the time or maybe you're using an entry level set of pedals and are used to more of 200 pounds in a real car, of course you'll say the brakes are too easy to lock in the simulator, but that's not necessarily because the simulator is bad, it's just doing what you're used to doing with the hardware that you have right now doesn't work, so this feedback is valuable, not necessarily correct, the actual controller is possibly even a good controller, I bet the same opinion of the hardware is not like that. complete mostly worthless, so hey, what I've also seen is that drivers don't do it all that well, maybe it has something to do with their skill expectations that they get in the simulator, which is set up so right or wrong, they twist and turn too often.
Like I'm the same, it's terrible, there's not enough grip or whatever, obviously that's not necessarily a realistic thing because they're overestimating themselves, they haven't tried properly, so you need the right kind of driver who can filter. the things that aren't there in a sim, who puts in enough time and is talented enough to also become a good sim racer, maybe you can say something about that, but we've already seen that it's still subjective, so even then It's nice, it's nice. difficult so yeah another thing here although that's something I've also seen recently maybe some of these real drivers are actually extremely good at sim racing and they like a certain sim or they may be great at a certain sim because the sim is realistic or they are just highly skilled, highly competitive people who would also be champions in Mario Kart simply because they learn the necessary skills and do a great job in the simulator, so even real drivers who do well in a simulator will not necessarily means it's realistic other than maybe they are just able to cope and adapt and because they are very skilled advanced human beings, here we go again with the data that goes into the sim is never entirely accurate, the sim itself It won't be entirely accurate, it's missing certain things when feeling maybe some sensations in the simulator are actually better because you don't have certain types of things happening in real life.
I should probably add another finger. Real drivers might be helpful, but it's also subjective and not everyone is capable. to provide feedback or filter out things they don't feel because they're not real or they like the wrong things because they're not engineers all the time, maybe they make a mistake in what Dave assumes is realistic because they expect to do a certain way in the simulator. and maybe their extreme skill makes them get away with a simulator that is too difficult or maybe they are not that skilled and I think the simulator should be easier, how about my two cents on this, first?
Everything I believe that developers should try to get as much data as possible for each car speaks for itself, but just because nothing is ever complete doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to get as much data as possible because the Least thinks that you have to completely guess, the higher the probability that something good will come out, but it doesn't end there, so the developer must also recognize that perfection does not exist and that there is always a space needed in the physics engine to modify things because you never know everything exactly, so you need room to tweak and testers like who tests the betas there, you have to be okay, there has to be quite a bit of sim racing, maybe experience real sim racing.
Drivers are also especially rare the type that is really good at driving in reality and driving in the simulator and also with good hardware and good setup and some ability to filter out things that are not happening in the simulator and not blame. an easy lock brake on a light pedal knowing that maybe the brakes are fine in the simulator but your pedal only applies half the force that the real car does, it's really very complicated and subjective at this point so I do it which I hope is that maybe if you have enough reasonably good people doing your testing, you'll get a lot of data points, a lot of noise, but maybe some of the feedback is more or less, well, there's sort of more than average grumbling towards one direction. . and then you can work towards it now, the more people you can test, the more data points you will get and maybe it will tell you where to go, but a lot of times you will be in the subjective hands of physics.
Guys maybe like me or Iris del Corsa or anyone you know will have to juggle all these balls of unreality and combine them into an experience that I think is good enough right at the end of the video and then recap. and everyone can go home with a happy face, well if there's anything I feel like they can possibly learn. Oh, however, I'm just a guy with an opinion to write, so I just told you that everything is, to some extent, there is always room for maneuver and room for improvement. The same thing happens with me.
I'm just a guy with an opinion so don't trust me and don't follow youtubers blindly or think that just because someone is a real driver and you. he makes youtube videos that he is always right, well that is your favorite

## simracing

youtuber if his opinion is correct, no, probably a lot of times no one is right, there is just this vagueness around realism and how difficult it must be to assume, how it should be, there is not a single individual. I think that's the answer to this, so I think everyone, if you consume content, if you consume racing games or Sims, if you create content about it on YouTube or whatever you do, if you're a Sims developer, you should have a lot of modesty. cake and I should probably eat a little more because it definitely affects me and of course being humble and open to things not being the way you think they are is very important so never put your heels in the sand and walk away from the gallows stay open to what is realistic and what is not and do not blindly follow something or a developer or youtuber humbly ladies and gentlemen I think that is the only conclusion we can draw from this video mmm I'm hungry I hope I found it interesting to see later goodbye comments rotten fruit below goodbye