Former CIA Officer Will Teach You How to Spot a Lie l Digiday

Good morning, I know what we're going to talk about this morning is a little different than what you normally think of when you're doing your day job and things like that, but you know that Lizzie and Shireen mentioned a minute ago that everyone is a good liar. everyone has probably been lied to in the past maybe they've even told a lie or two in the past do i have someone in the room who's going to tell me they never lie no one is ok at least i don't see someone with the lights on Would you be surprised if I told you let's do a little experiment first I want you to find someone in the room and I want you to point to them I know it's rude but I want you to point and while you're pointing I'm going to point who you are Aaron I'm going to point to Aaron, so find someone in the room, point it at them, and then look around to see who's looking at you, who's pointing at you, okay? so I'm going to raise your hand and being this five and this zero I want you to end up like everyone else to do this just for a moment with this big zero, this is five, tell me how many times do you think that person has lied in the last 24 hours, is it okay now look around the room and just look around the room and see what people are doing and saying okay look around the room okay put your hands down can you put your hands down let me start by saying you guys are a very polite because i saw a lot of these i saw a couple of these few of these didn't have any flashing lights though i usually do this learner i have people both hands flashing they take off their shoes so they can talk about how many times they think people lied it's okay would you be surprised if I told you that a person lies an average of ten times a day, okay now I know some of you are sitting around saying no no that's not true.

I don't like them 10 times a day, but think about it for a moment when I talk about lying. 10 times a day I talk about things like someone asking how you are and you have a terrible headache and you say ok because you don't want to get into it so when I talk about lies I talk about a whole range of those little white lies that we tell either to not to hurt someone's feelings or to prevent a conversation from going in a direction that we don't want it to turn into those really big, blatant lies that I didn't, okay?

Why is this important to you? knowing what a lie looks like is important to you if you are hiring employees you know if you have a recruitment process going on if you have an investigation because someone has been stealing from your company and you need to get into an investigative mindset now any of those things that touch like executives and retailers or people who are involved in retail it's important if you're a buyer and you're going to look around to see if you're getting the best deal on the things you're looking to buy do you want to know if that's people telling you the right or do you want to know if you have a little more leeway then the purpose of

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ing you about lying today and I'm not going to tell you everything because we don't have all day but I'm going to touch on the things that are most important to you and I hope that find out they have something to do with what you guys do on a day to day basis, it's okay if I forget to say this and I usually want to say it before I leave when you're done and these 45 minutes with me you

will

be dangerous you

will

know enough to be dangerous so don't take this home and use it on your loved ones i won't take you where you want to go kids however use it all the time on kids it's ok , I have a 16 year old if his lips are moving he's lying that's okay so I'm just setting them up with it so let's get into this just a little bit about me I think they told you it's all over the place in I'm actually ex-CIA.

I still work a lot with them, but the point is that it's in the CIA that I learned what it looks like when people lie. I have a master's degree in forensic psychology and education. I spent more than 20 years in the agency. I developed a screening program within the agency and us. in fact take this show to spy on the live show around the world and

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people about lying all over the world so people will tell me well susan if you're teaching everyone what it's like to lie can't they use that against you? if i learn to lie if aaron learns to lie and i'm interviewing her for a job and she's lying i'll see if she knows how to win me over the good thing is there are so many different things about lying you can't hide all of them so aaron can lie to me with a couple of sentences, but sooner or later I'm going to figure out that she's lying and then I'm going to try and find out what the truth is, so enough about me. in this the way i want to start this is i want to show you a brief video okay and i want you to tell me if Jamie this young lady here at the end of this video is lying to me or not okay so everybody and you walked into the room today with an intuition that tells you if someone is being truthful or not we all think we know what deception looks like we all think we know what truth looks like so with that gut feeling you have it tells you if someone is truthful o I don't want Jamie to be judged we are ready to go well my The first question for you TV is what involvement did you have in the companies that have just started.

The bars are run for county activities. Glenn to back out any contracts, no of course not before the recent audit that uncovered these accounting irregularities, did you know that Mr. Glenn was back in dating contracts, no, I mean in fact if he knew about that then i would speak up and say something is there any reason a computer forensics review would uncover any communication with mr glyn in regards to this matter no of course i don't have any communication with him in regards to this at no time did Mr. Glenn ever disclose or discuss efforts to rig company accounts with you, you know, if he had, I would have told him someone fired him, got something, something would have happened if he knew anything, Jimmy , why should we believe that you are not?

I always have. a very good reputation with the company i have no enemies in the company you know when you know i have always done the best i could and i think i have a very good reputation with that and people trust me and i would never do something like that especially for something I've worked so hard on, what do you think should happen to the singing manager who directed this? You should learn how to roll back this contract. He should be fired and go to jail and there should be serious consequences. Would you be willing to do it? certify in writing that you had nothing to do with these accounting irregularities yes of course I will sign it right now ok this was a situation where there is an ongoing investigation at a company because the Ant account had been tampering with the books and when we went in to do the investigation we asked him why he was manipulating the books they were preparing to sell the company they were looking for to increase the value of the company, but he said yes. specifically because they told him to ask who told him and he didn't want to tell us, so we did some digging, interviewed a bunch of people, Jamie being one of them, now I've heard a couple of people say he was lying. top right and maybe he was and maybe he wasn't but as the interview went on there were times you caught yourself saying no I think he's telling the truth and other times when he used to nap that's a lie How do we know if she is? to be honest or not, what are we looking for there?

Let me ask you this question, even if Jamie was being honest, did she have any reason to be nervous? or if it is as a result of being insincere, how do we know that this is what we want to learn? If you have someone sitting across from you for a job interview or if you are talking to someone in a company, all your employees in a company. because there's been a big break-in or even a little break-in those people have a reason to be absolutely nervous they want to make sure you're doing it right they want to make sure they're showing up the way they should So how do we know the difference?

Let's take a look at a few things. There are six keys to knowing if someone is being honest or not, or if someone is being deceitful. Let's look at all of these individually. We have analyzed versus speculates well what do I mean by that? Can I look at someone in this room and say they are lying to me just by looking at them just by the way they are sitting? the room has a bias we can know what that bias is but we may not know it well it just happens the week it's presented people recognize it but we don't see it we want to acknowledge the evasiveness what does that look like when someone is trying to avoid telling me the truth or can tell me a hoax?

I want to be aware of the aggression. Aggression is one of the main keys for people to deceive. We're also going to look at broadcast vs. convince. What do I mean by convey versus convince? Finally, we'll look at some of those nonverbal cues. any of y'all used to watch lie to me that's what you saw with a nonverbal that's what you saw with the nonverbal so let's look at some of those okay so let's get started wow too bad when i talk about analysis vs analysis vs speculation what i want to see is how a person is reacting to things ok so i need i need to find someone who is sitting how i want you to actually see the gentleman in the back right there who has his arms resting well if he was crossing his arms Right here like this, okay, how do we see this behavior?

How have we always been told that this behavior is closed off, aloof and things like that? manipulate me well they're trying to come across as truthful i'll just stay here so no one knows i'm lying well you know what maybe he's standing that way because he's cold, maybe he's standing that way because he's comfortable for him, okay, that may be a form of habit. I don't want to turn around and say look closely. Posture equals cheating because if I do that, I'm getting into trouble, so a lot of us look at global behavior. we watch the weather they change all the time we watch the weather the weather they know they do some of the things Jamie did when he scratched his nose all that kind of stuff we give too much weight to global behavior that we want to eliminate that it's speculation.

I don't want to speculate why that gentleman in the back is sitting there with his arm crossed like this. Alright. What I want to do, in other words, is I want to identify that the behaviors that I'm seeing here are a direct result of my question, so if I ask Aaron Aaron, did you take the missing merchandise right? give him that ok i want it i want to see the behaviors and hear the behaviors as a result of the question i ask and it will make sense in a minute i want to identify the stimulus the stimulus in this case if it is research if it is a selection interview whether it is talking to someone you want to employ in your organization the stimulus will be the question i will ask during any interview during any communication people will move I want that movement to come when I ask the question is right not when they are sitting here talking and never come back make more sense in a minute.

I want to focus on the behaviors that are directly, as I said, we associate it with the response you say and do something as a response to my question, okay, one of those deceptive behaviors and I'm going to rely on what we call time and groups, and this it's really the big problem of groups time, for example, when i ask a question i want that person to show me cheating behavior within the first five seconds after asking that question if they don't show me cheating behavior from the list that I'm going to show them in a minute and in five seconds they're not lying to me they're not lying to me well I need to see that you're here one of those behaviors in the first five seconds if I see the first behavior in the first five seconds I don't have to see other behavior for two or three or five or ten seconds is ok but i have to see the first one in the first five seconds now i'm not trying to be malicious or here but I've seen CEOs who can live for 15 minutes with a question ok I'm going to show you some behavior that allows you to see that happen but what I want to make sure the

former

happens in the first five seconds , this is what it looks like, you are all brilliant people, you know five seconds is good, my other, my other thing that I want to pay attention to is the groups and this is what makes the difference in our deceptive behaviors in front of the other people's deceptive categories and techniques I want to see more than one deceptive behavior within the first five seconds right within that response so I have these that are verbal extremes that are non-verbal I want to see at least two or more behaviors to make it a misleading answer does it make sense so for c1 i might not like it i'm going to pay attention to it but i really want two or more so if i say my first behavior has to be withinfirst five seconds and I need two or more trick indicators, do I have a trick answer? here i do it now you realize i have one that happens before i finish the question that question prompt i am asking you a question and i get nonverbal deceptive behavior i am going to count that even though it is not within my first five seconds why what do you think someone could give me non-verbal or verbal deceitful behavior before i finish the question exactly? they are starting to frame their response and guess what they think faster than i speak ok they say the average person speaks 120 to 150 words per minute the brain goes much faster than that ok some behaviors let's say it goes at least 10 times faster, some may say it can't be measured because we don't think in words, we think in concepts okay so if someone gives me a verbal answer or a non-verbal answer before I finish my question it's simply because their brain goes faster than my mouth okay and then i have that outlier there that nonverbal that is outside of the first five seconds i'm going to tell i'm right aaron i'm going to tell why i'm going to tell it exactly because i had one that it happened within the first five seconds, so any behavior I keep singing that falls outside of the first five seconds before I ask another question is going to be part of my group, so if I have one I have seven here that tells me I have a liar telling me I have a person who is not being true and by the way we never call him. a liar we just say they are being insincere ok so im not i have someone being insincere with me what if i had just two within the first five seconds?

Would it be a true answer? Would it be a hoax? The answer would be misleading right now is that lying there is a Big Bigger Lie than the person just showing me two misleading behaviors that we have no way of knowing well we have no way of knowing that those two misleading behaviors could be my son telling me that not on homework sorry one could be my son tells me he has no homework ok the person showing me two misleading indicators may be a very very bad person but it all comes down to how much someone is buying the lie, how important is it for me to convince you that I am being honest and at the end of the day when people are doing this kind of thing what they are trying to do is manipulate us, okay, manipulate us into believing them, okay, manipulation is a big thing, but that's what they're doing. we are doing and saying things to manipulate our thoughts about them ok so timing in groups is the most important thing timing in groups we want to manage your bias ok now it says up here i want to ignore truthful behavior why do you think i want to ignore truthful behavior see any good thought is ok true we are inherently good everyone is inherently good i mean she is right she is absolutely right you know look we were all raised to be good people well at least 90% of us in the room were raised As a good person, I can't speak for everyone, but they taught us that lying was wrong, right, and your parents told you that lying wasn't good. the problem you would have had if you told me the truth and did something wrong so we know lying is wrong at least that's what we've been taught lying is wrong deceitful people can give us truthful answers so if you ask one question from a person you feel comfortable answering that you can answer honestly is ok any discussion you have any interview some other time whatever you are doing you are your buyer you are talking to people and want to get to the truth this is your price lower to and people are doing things to convince you that's the lowest price, let's start with that, okay, they're going to do things, they're going to say things to convince you that's the lowest price, you're having a conversation with them, you're trying. to determine if it is the lowest price what else can i get? just a lot of questions you have you're taking notes you're thinking about follow-up questions it's like getting a drink of water from a fire hose there's too much going on if I tell you forget to look for truthful behavior because you'll see it in some questions.

Forget looking for truthful behavior, then that cuts your work in half. of a fire hose ok it makes things so much easier but truthful people or deceitful people giving you truthful answers make it seem like they are good people they are cooperative people they will give you everything you need to get it right . actually what they are doing is convincing you that they are being sincere because you saw one good answer not several good answers ok for a moment let's go back to Jamie what did Jamie do that made you think he was cheating? Did someone say that someone said that she was lying right away?

What does she do? Alright. Can not. She touched her face. you liked it all of you thought she was guilty well what did she do that you liked it's fine it's fine and it was you who yelled that she's lying it's fine no no I didn't know it came from that direction but but that's good that's right it was one of these Scituates of these situations you were in yes yes no yes no that's every conversation you'll ever have with people sounds good sounds bad sounds good sounds bad how do we split between the two? yes I didn't decorate the room m I just did the interview but no you're absolutely right and that's when I talk about people manipulating our perception manipulating us to believe them that's exactly what I'm talking about because there were some questions that she responded very well, there they are. some questions she didn't ask what we do in a lot of situations is we ask people for example we do some research within the organization you know one of our questions will be what are you doing here and most people just give you a job hello a job title ok but the people we know are already gearing up to manage our perception will give us this long job description ok that goes way beyond what we are asking for so let us they gave a lot of information and the purpose of that is again to convince us that they are good people, well what happens when I listen if I am a newbie and I hear a truthful answer?

I'm starting to think he's a good person. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I start to believe that they're good, I start to believe that they want to, want to cooperate and when I talk about the halo effect, that's what I'm talking about, so if I'm not looking for deceitful behavior and I'm looking for truthful behavior instead, I i will find sincere demeanor and it will convince me early on that person is good and then i will miss the bad I like the fact that you mentioned a couple of things that will be here later I like the fact that you guys saw the feet moving.

I like the fact that you saw the nose thing scratching your nose, but what's right is her either sincere or deceitful. To recognize evasiveness, have you ever asked someone a question and they've talked for 10 minutes and then you realize they never answered the question you asked, okay, right? I mean it happens all the time if you ask someone if you ask someone is your best price and they go through a All these things they tell you all these reasons why that's their best price but they haven't said no, it's okay they didn't give you the answer you asked for if you're interviewing someone for a job and you ask them if they've ever had a problem with a supplier or problems at work and they give you all these great reasons why they're good employees, but they never answer whether or not they had problems in a job but we don't listen to it because we're not thinking we're not listening if they answer the question or not we're just listening if they answer so we need to make sure they're really giving us the information we asking about the other thing is what we call failing to deny the most important thing for the honest person is to give you that answer to deny if he did not do something that is the most important thing the truth is his greatest ally between then they're going to want to deny something if they haven't that's ok they're going to want to deny anything that's going to make them look better if they haven't so we need to listen to people who deny things then we have what we call exclusionary qualifiers now by exclusionary qualifiers I mean things like saying for the most part fundamentally not really not really exclusionary qualifiers beg for a follow up question ok absolutely beg for a follow up question now poor Aaron sat here right in front of me so I'm going to bug her throughout the whole presentation but let's just say okay I've met Aaron let's just say I met Aaron last night and I really want to make a good impression with you guys so I'm going with Aaron this tomorrow and I'm like, hey Aaron, look, do you think what I'm wearing is okay for today?

Now I realize I realize the conflict here because I'm sitting in front of a bunch of retail people okay some of you who sell clothing so I realize I'm getting in the mix here but let's say that Aaron Darren sees something wrong with him. what i'm using and its res Ponse not really thinking about this for a moment its not really right so you know if i'm in my upbeat mood which doesn't happen very often but i'm in an upbeat mood optimistic and i hear no i really think oh i am. okay what I'm wearing is fine but if I'm not listening to it from an Austin exit optimistic point of view I'm listening to it from a negative point of view I'm like oh really so my next question to Aaron will be what will be my next question to Aaron.

Okay Aaron, if there was one thing you had to choose that you didn't like, what would it be? You don't have to answer I just want to see if you know but you hear what I say if someone says no they're really begging for a follow up so my fault has to come because if I don't ask for that follow up I'm not going to do it I'm not going to do it right no I'm going to listen to it myself. I'm not going to listen to what the actual answer is, so if someone says to you, well, fundamentally, this is the way we do things or, for the most part, these are the things we think. s is the way we do things, they're slashing something, we want to know what they're slashing, so you have to ask that follow up question, well that's basically what you do, but what did you do on this? situation ok that's exclusive qualifiers i used one of these before the assault hits the interrogator let's say you've had a robbery and you're interviewing all your employees and you ask them if you had anything to do with this did you remove anything from this information correctly and you just came back and said you always think it's me you know it's just because of the way I was born or how I dressed or whatever if you always think it's me and they question they attack you you know how and not even in this store you don't even know what's going on people go in and out all the time that's big ok when i talk about different behaviors there are some behaviors that way more than others aggression is one of those ok yikes if you have someone who jumps by your throat because you ask him a question, I don't even care if it's your son, you know, but you tell your son what you did last night and he says why do you always ask. me this you don't trust me why don't you trust me it's ok whatever you did ok you have a problem you have a problem it's ok to attack a third party it's ok it's the same kind of thing you know it locates the shops fog, the shop It doesn't have very good security, okay, it's, it's, you know we have, we don't have what we need here, you know, they never bring the right stuff, of course that will go away because we can't sell. okay they're attacking the third party again it's a big problem any time you talk about aggression any kind of attack it's important to show an inappropriate level of concern opposite ends of the spectrum you ask them a question you ask them as an important question and they're like oh please you know oh here we do that kind of thing again or they just get mad they go from 0 to 124 for no reason you just ask a question that's all let me give you a little example of that and you know in aggression they can be words i mean worry can be words or can be can be what they do to your face any of you here remember scott peterson great he killed us he was convicted of killing his wife and unborn child laci ok he was finally convicted but Earlier when I was sitting in jail there was an interview they had with Diane Sawyer and before that and Diane said, but Scott, this is the question that everyone in America wants to know: do you kill you your wife now?

Probably most of us would sit there and if we hadn't killed our spouses would try to figure out the right thing or know the right things to say what Scott Peterson did and said he smiled the first thing he did was he smiled he says I love my wife, no, no, no, no, I would not have stayed. on the back of my neck stand up someone just asked you if you killed your wife and unborn child andyou're smiling, okay, anyway, at an appropriate level of concern, now this is where I want to get into what you're talking about for a minute. does this can this could convince vs broadcast if i ask what's your name tiffany because i'm really tired of bothering poor aaron even if i ask tiffany tiffany did you take the merchandise?

Okay, what are the two answers that Tiffany can give me? let me know if she took the merchandise or not what are the two appropriate responses that would convey information yes or no yes or no but what if i say tiffany you took the missing merchandise and she goes into this hole? Look, I'm a good employee. I've been loyal to this company for s For a long time, I've never done anything that would give you any reason to think I'm less than a stellar employee. What is she doing here? Is she transmitting information? Is she trying to convince me of something?

Is she trying to convince me of something right? she's trying to convince me that she's a good employee that no one should have any questions about okay, that's what you'll hear most of the time, a convincing statement is the strongest arrow anyone will have in their quiver, it's okay to say I'm a good person I'm a good worker all those kinds of things when you talk about trying to manage someone's perception let me think about it think about it for a moment because maybe Tiffany is a good person maybe Tiffany is a stellar employee maybe he had a bad day, he had a drink and now he doesn't know what to do, so when somebody's trying to talk me into something that goes back a minute, when I said people can talk, they can answer a question. for ten minutes but they never answered the question I asked they can talk all day when I said I've seen CEOs live for twenty five minutes with just one question that's what I'm talking about they will start talking about how healthy your company is how great your sales are how wonderful your employees and management team are what they are doing is trying to talk me out of relaying information to me ok convincing statements are so strong let me give you another example from history y'all remember our last name Susan the woman who put her kids in the back of the car or in the car and their seats and susan smith thank you how can you forget smith ok susan smith she put her kids in the car seat You know, push the car the same way? to the police and he said someone had stolen his car just so we were doing a training session for some law enforcement in Indiana and these gentlemen were in the class they are from Union South Carolina they are in the class e class and they They came up and said Hayden, now we know how the Smith students initially beat us up when he walked into the police station he ran to the station he's crying he's hysterical somehow i have to hijack my car my kids are in the car he did it a citizen you have something to do with it Susan Smith's response was i love my children i would never hurt my children why would i hurt my children what did you not hear you did not hear a denial did you not hear her say no What you did hear her say was that she would not hurt my children.

Guess what he wouldn't do and what he didn't do. It is not the same as someone saying that they would not do something. It's not the same as saying I didn't. to do something we have to listen to was not right we have to listen to the words what people are saying not what we think they are saying because when our thinking doesn't make sense for someone to kill their children we actually actually said to them we said ok what did you say to her and why did she hit you and they said why what she said made sense now for just a moment.

They hadn't done an investigation yet. TRUE. She just walked in. She's crying. She is hysterical. they and they say you know we said it you said you said we said what we asked him why he would say that and you know we have this behavior we didn't like these behaviors we finally told him we said Susan look sometimes things happen and you know your parents your parents they get out of control and for a moment you know for a moment maybe something happened and she continues without i love my kids i would never hurt my kids blah blah blah -blah blah ok so what we say is when you hear statements compelling and you don't have any research in the susan smith case what you have to do is go hmm i just heard three protest statements or compelling statements.

I love my children, I would. never harm my ch children I do nothing my children I do not hear a denial if we talk about groups that are two or more I have an absolutely correct lie I have it I have it I am not responding or I am not giving myself a denial and I have three what we call convincing statements okay now convincing statements ring so true or in this particular case hauntingly beautiful irrefutable let's just say this the

officer

s tell susan so susan look you say you didn't kill your wife i will kill your kids prove it prove it and she he says i love my children i take care of my children i take them to church they are happy they are well fed they are well dressed all these kinds of things now mr. police

officer

, what do you have right now?

They have nothing, so the compelling statements really ring true again. Tiffany may be a nice person, but that didn't answer my question, okay, so she guesses who I'm going to look at. I'll look. at Tiffany it's fine endorsement statements Endorsement statements are statements that people make over and over again to try and convince you that you didn't do anything wrong, okay, so let's say, let's say this young lady standing back here, let's say she came out to go to the bathroom while I'm here talking she comes back in and said hey Susan let me interrupt for a second I need you to know that there are some kind of little green men running down the hall and what is our first impression of this Miss you just walked in alright , okay, but let's say you do know.

I know I know it's hard to believe, but I'm telling you some little green men are running around now. a bri ng we at are starting to believe a bit about what she says that again its perception manipulation ok invoke religion people will talk about you know swear on the stack of bibles i swear to god and the world from accounting I swear by GAAP you know all these kinds of things that people all these kinds of things that people will tell us because let's be real and this more especially in this world of politics that you know about righteousness and everyone wanting to be good and not step on nobody's toes someone throw away religion what do you have in your backpack your bag in your desk drawer that trumps religion ok that's dangerous dangerous perception qualifiers are a little different than exclusion qualifiers perception qualifiers perception are what people say and do to disguise their lie to verbally disguise things in their life.

I would like to tell you the truth honestly, frankly, since some of you maybe they're sitting in this room and saying oh pancake these are, that's the common phrase for me. I say those things all the time, it's a habit, okay, you're lucky because we're seeing groups, okay, then you understand your frankly, you understand your honesty, that's when you start to get more and more because the deceit and your answer is that we . I'm going to pay attention ok non verbal now a lot of times people will tell me ok Susan if you say behaviors start within the first five seconds I'll hit you and just don't do or say anything for five seconds unfortunately for you. a behavior pause is a tricky indicator ok just for a moment you need to think about this because you have to wonder if you get a pause so the question makes sense for a pause so if I say Aaron for example Aaron Let's see January. 26, ten years ago, what were you doing?

Allow a pause? Okay, so it's only fair that she pauses there, but what if I say it? Aaron, January 26, ten years ago, did you rob the Bank of America? quick well if t she had taken her time thinking about that answer you guys have to watch your hiring policies okay because that would have been a problem well verbal non verbal disconnect what i want you to do once you take a little trip for me for another little game for me for a moment I want you to look at the person sitting next to you before you do even though look at me I want you to look at the person sitting next to you and I want you to say you like me well and I want that person to go away, yeah i like you alot alright and then i want you to change so do it real quick cause we have how much time alright alright alright alright i don't have much time alright. that felt weird that felt weird good and that's telling you to do that's okay that's telling you to do that and you're having a hard time doing it deliberately you're doing it if you see someone do that's huge it means their brain is so fried that they're not doing what your body is made to do right now all i'm talking about by example with exceptions a verbal non verbal disconnect is cross cultural transgender you can use it anywhere in the world this is one of those can't well You can't because they are India for example that's how they respond well but anywhere else you can use non-verbal verbal disconnection you just have to know your audience a little bit anchor point movements anchor point movements are the things that anchor you to the ground to the world to the earth for example my feet right now would be anchor points if my arms are like this they would be anchor points if you asked me a question and in response This to that question do I move my arms or my legs that is an anchor point movement ok you mentioned feet if I am sitting in a chair my bottom is my anchor point my back is my anchor point my feet are my anchor point feet are always anchor points ok all women especially ABBA we tend to sit cross legged and we have that foot that's dangling we call it a dangling anchor point watch it because that's where that person is going to be dealing with to keep control of herself she will go to that floating anchor point grooming gestures things people do to disguise the lie they could fix their tie, they could fix their hair, they could look at their watch, something like that, that would be fixing their lives physically and then finally put your hands up to your face ok if someone is in a flight or fight syndrome or a flyer fight phase which means instead of telling you the see Dad, they're going to try to keep her inside.

They're going to fill up the blood vessels in the tips of their fingers and the tips start to shrink and itch so they'll start playing with their noses. or ear or scratching hands or something to make hands on face huge ok any questions he wants to know how you shot him oh yes sir there seems to be an art or science to pausing that you had after each question can you talk a bit about yes i can it means i'm cutting can you ask me in the question answer session? I do what I'm supposed to do. think about the things that we talked about think about what you mentioned before about how you would like her to answer your questions more, but that's not okay, that's okay, and she didn't really answer the question, so how much the more people talk, the worse it will be.

Okay come on my first question for you Jimmy is how involved should you be in the newfound companies as far as accounting activities oh nine appropriate levels of concern. Gulen to roll back any contracts no of course not move your feet to an appropriate level prior to the recent audit which uncovered these accounting irregularities were you aware that Mr Glenn was back dating contracts no I mean from fact, if I had knowledge about that, then I would speak up and say something convincing. Glenn in regards to this matter, no of course I don't have any communication with them regarding it.

I'm okay with that, except for the foot-shaking, but that's the only behavior at any time Mr. Gulen ever disclosed or discussed efforts to manipulate company accounts with you, if he had, would you I would have told someone he got fired and got something. Something would have happened if he knew anything. He had something against some convincing statements. that you have always had a very good reputation with the company I have no enemies in the company you know and you know I have always done the best I can and I think I have a very good reputation with that and people trust me and I would never do something like that , especially for something that I've worked so hard on, okay, I'm going to wrap it up because I think we all see the compelling statements, we see the footnotes and things like that. going over the rest of the questions how do we feel about her now that she is a liar yeah well just so you know at the end of my rope my role in this investigation was not just to find the person who was cheating but to confront the person who i thought that she was being deceitful just so you know she displayed over 26 deceitful behaviors in that short interview ok that was a neon sign to me i knew right away it was her ok anywayAnyway, there are the keys to success that we talked about. come up here I know we have a couple of questions so I can answer your question ok you guys are done yeah I put pauses between my questions and the answer the reason for that is because you do it just south of being awkward the people have a tendency. want to fill quiet spaces and many times they will do those quats although they will fill it with convincing statements or other things that will be misleading if I don't see anything else then I'll ask the question but I always try to wait at least three or four seconds before asking my second question because if I'm strafing Adam and asking him questions, they feel very comfortable answering very quickly.

I have a very quick question for you. because we're almost out of time, but how does all this work on the phone? um, good question, it works on the phone. the chair squeaks when they move back and forth in the chair what you're going to pay most attention to is verbal listening obviously to see if they're doing anything we're talking about here and be careful very careful when you're on the phone interviews about drift of mind don't think about what your next question will be think about what they are saying in their answer okay yes that's a good question behavior if you are doing the verbal explain nervousness okay if you are looking for the moment and the groups again nervous behavior nervous behavior but you're looking for the moment and those tricky behaviors and once you see them you'll start to see the nerve you don't care if you're nervous ok why p People do things and don't know how people manifest nervousness versus cheating so you really have to follow the behaviors and time and groups and behaviors because everyone wants to get it right as well So we do and I gave you the short and dirty of all this stuff, there's actually a book we wrote cost per lie that has a lot more detail and can help you as much as you want.

You might want your training on one of your external sites or something. We would come and give him a longer presentation. Our normal presentations are like three and a half hours. Thanks, partner. Quick clean.