Fmr. ambassador to Russia ‘surprised’ Putin and Prigozhin met face-to-face

let me turn to Mike Mcfaul, of course, the former Russian

ambassador

and our resident criminal knowledge is here and I want to get to what the hell is going on inside the Russian military, but let's back up here for a minute, many historians, this is the first of Everything What I want to talk about is the contrast of the scenario five years ago in Helsinki, it is Trump and Putin. Here we are five years later, ma'am. By the way, Finland is a member of NATO. I mean, this is just an amazing development in many ways. Isn't that like Chuck?

It's absolutely, by the way, I was in Helsinki in 2018, working with the NBC team and Trump not only sided with Putin on our intelligence, but he also said we should hand over a group of Americans to Putin for interrogation, I was one of them so I remember Helsinki very well, this is a very different event but historically I'm glad you mentioned it because I think we have to appreciate how important this is during the Cold War, we had a noun because it was called Finnization uh and what the Soviets achieved in their relationship with Finland was to keep them out of NATO to keep them neutral Sweden two centuries of neutrality think about those two centuries of neutrality and now Finland is in NATO and in the race - to the summit of the villains, you know, the Biden administration got the deal it needed with the Turks to bring in Sweden.

This will be remembered as a very historic moment for the NATO alliance and as a major setback for Putin's foreign policy. Within 10 years there will be a country in Eastern Europe that will not be in NATO within 10 years if Ukraine wins this war Mike I don't think there is a democratic country in Eastern Europe that is not in NATO, I mean look at that map you keep showing, it's pretty intense with all that green, of course it matters how the war ends and whether Ukraine will prevail in this war. I think so. I agree with the president when Putin says. is losing the war, uh, but wars are not judged in the first or second year, they are judged by the last year, but I think the momentum is on the side of the democratic countries of Eastern Europe and the autocratic countries are on the side loser. let's talk about what is happening inside the Russian army.

I know you monitor, you have your own sources, you monitor what happens on Telegram, we have our own reports here, it is always very difficult to confirm who is in and who is out, but it seems that the generals are being fired. Is Pergozin being treated better than those who supported him? Pretty murky picture, but the fact that it's murky and confusing I think is bad for Putin, so if you come back and we talk about it, you're back to the Pugosian mutiny. Some said me. was one of those who said this was bad luck for Putin, others said no, this is a sign of strength, he is getting rid of all these guys who don't support him, but look where we are now, we have resident generals and generals.

Cub, you are right on Telegram, I saw it, I heard it several times, who just got kicked out, he is one of the main commanders in this war and he said let's stop. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, of course, but he said. We stopped the Ukrainian military in Ukraine but then were stabbed in the back by our own generals in Russia. That's not a message if you're fighting a war that you want one of your most popular commanders to say, and secondly, progression. We don't know what his status is at this time. Putin called them a merchant, said there will be consequences and then said he will be exiled in Belarus and none of that seems to be true yet, so I think there is a lot of instability within the Armed Forces.

Forces, uh, that can't be good for Putin's ability to wage war on him in Ukraine. Were you

surprised

that Putin and Prague met

face

to

face

? Yes, I was

surprised

by that, given the emotional speech Putin gave and didn't have to give. It's amazing that he could have done this in private. He chose to appear on National Television. Think of it as an Oval Office speech to all the American people where he called this guy a traitor and then met with them. That's not a sign of strength. There's just no way you can spend that other than just hoping people aren't paying attention.

However, I suspect they are paying attention because Pregosian has a following within the Russian military, so perhaps not all of us are, except the soldiers fighting in Ukraine. I guess you guys are probably watching this, what do you think is wrong with shogu and gorasmara? Don't know. I guess I should say that, for those who don't follow the two main military commanders right now, for the Russian army, whoever comes in was Basically, I'm going to try to go to the incense, who was the target of the Pagosians? Sorry, I just want to inform people, yes, yes, a defense minister who is the head of the Armed Forces in Russia just a couple of days ago, Garasimov was on television walking around doing things that was obviously a sign that he is still in power and has not been thrown under the bus.

I don't think Putin can do that right now. To remove any of those people, that would seem like a complete capitulation to progress because of the critical things. that you said he said you just talked, but in six or seven months I wouldn't be surprised if they were both removed Mike McFall, former US

ambassador

to Russia, I appreciate you sharing your experience. It's a pleasure talking to you, thanks for watching our YouTube channel. Follow today's top stories and breaking news by downloading the NBC News app.