DEBATE AMLO VS CEVALLOS (COMPLETO Y MEJOR CALIDAD HD)

It may well be that first we have to thank you both when it is Manuel Diego that you have come this morning both fulfilling the commitment that they made publicly here on Friday and as you began you can ratify what you said what you said on Thursday in this sense Andrés Manuel Buenos Good morning, Joaquín, since I'm not there, I want to take advantage of my time. I think we're going to talk for the same amount of time to see equity. I want to take advantage of this intervention so that you can show a 20-second fragment of a video where Diego goes up to the platform and asks for the burning. of the electoral ballots, which was what motivated this

debate

, this one has another one and that's how they have it, we don't have it, we see that the stenographic version is here and I bring it and we can read it if you allow me, I will read it, yes, but I would like it better the video looks better if it looks better then you can use this video it is said it is from kraus well it is please while they play the video diego well in what he puts in the video I would like to say first that this

debate

between Mr.

López Obrador and I didn't start on Friday, it's been years and it seemed like it had ended. I bring here to give you five copies of the process magazine where Mr. López Obrador and since 1996 have done exactly the same thing as what he said on Friday and what has been saying these days and in this debate that took place in the process magazine there are all the accusations and also my answers, nothing more than the public should know that Mr. López Obrador ended up saying that he no longer wanted me to answer him that in In any case, he thanked me and said goodbye and finally I also answered him by telling him that for me he seemed cowardly and criminal, that if I was for him an alleged criminal as far as the Playa Diamond properties were concerned, he would thank me and God told me, I ask the process magazine to put it on the internet if you do Andrés Manuel and me the favor so that everyone knows who wants to consult what it was that he told me in '96, which is what I answered him and why What is this debate repeating now that there are elections again and that my name is mentioned for the senate of the republic for joaquín here is andrés manuel no let's see if the video is already there because it was what basically motivated the debate the greens can do it And then I look, I would say, Joaquín, that this debate has in fact been started for a long time because I have always maintained that Mr.

Diego Fernández de Cevallos has played into the hands of the regime. I say this with all due respect, it is my conviction that you They have pretended to be opponents and that this has prevented democracy from advancing in our country and this is the bottom of the matter. I maintain that there are two different opposing projects of the Ryan Nation on the one hand and the RD on the other and I want to say that we are different we are different you relate very well with the men of the regime we are facing a compact group something very similar to a mafia where bankers intervene businessmen linked to power corrupt political technocrats who have used public power for the benefit of minorities at the expense of the suffering of the majority of the people and I come here precisely to clarify this situation before whom I consider a genuine representative of the regime because the flight from Mexico is convenient for him to know for sure what is under debate in this election, which is nothing more than Which party wins, which candidate but what national project we Mexicans want for the new century and for the new millennium.

Well, for me it is very clear that it is the perfect speech of a social fighter. One could not expect anything else. The insult, the disqualification, and forgive me, Amalia, no. I know where the ideas are but when you talk about prian because I wish you could answer me if we are the same national action and the PRI if we represent the same option if we have the same way of thinking and living because the vast majority of PRI members when they do not reach settled in the PRI they quickly migrate to their party and are quickly placed above the PRD members of a long time.

It is a good question if they are like us when they do not have somewhere quickly they should come here but everyone or the vast majority goes with you and they accommodate them in the main positions but I go further, you have been saying that I was an ally and I am of the system that I was a supporter of Salinas that bread has always supported the government and that we belong to the same scheme look that is not true and we can do it demonstrate what happens is that in all the civilized countries on earth in all the oppositions that respect each other sometimes vote in favor of the government's proposals and sometimes against them only the mentally ill only those who are in poor condition assume that to To be honest, you have to be against the government.

No country can tolerate that. I believe that instead of insults and disqualifications, I am going to put something in your hands that will hopefully tell you something for your trial. I was accused by you and by people like you. You are always a faithful servant of the government of Mr. Salinas, yes or no, if you are clearly a representative of the genuine regime, it is more. You are proud of being called the boss, Diego. I consider him to be the boss of bosses. It's Mr. Salinas, well that's my point of view, yes, of course, and if you have him as your boss, well, I respect him, but I'm going to tell you the following: the three years in which I was a deputy and coordinator and they called me boss Diego for all three years. of that responsibility national action I vote in the chamber of deputies against the income law the expenditure budget and the public account here are the votes of the deputation and the speeches with the diaries of the debates I have other information to perfect what it seems I have The information that during the Salinas six-year term you supported 87 percent of Celines' initiatives was very good, but then what can I tell you back here?

Honesty is a percentage problem. No, no, it's not how you were born. How much of you do I look at? No, that's not what we're going to do is relax. No, we're still going to talk more about this casting, this matter here. The only thing I want to say is that you supported Las Salinas in everything and you in particular. But not only did they support Salinas, they support Zedillo. You also bring this information here. You approve of the Fobaproa thing in December 98. Here it is, if you allow me, I'm going to show you a photograph of what was happening in Labastida and Grecia.

It occurred in December 98. the approval of the match then is nothing more during salinas it is a permanent behavior of you always playing into the hands of the regime four days ago it was the bankers' convention they applauded Mr. Fox furiously because I am going to tell them that they were patriots that they were not They had had no problem and they had not been responsible for the issue of the banking crisis when the bankers looted the financial institutions the bankers benefited Mr. Zedillo with your support converted private debts and a few in public debt into debt of everything the people and we are talking about the largest debt that has been contracted in the history of the country, 100,000 million dollars.

Mexicans should know that when it was said that they entered the presidency of the republic, the debt of every Mexican, child, young adult or elderly It was 12 thousand pesos, now it is 25 thousand pesos, the debt per family is 150 thousand pesos and this is largely due to the fact that Mr. Zedillo, without consulting the Mexicans, converted the debts of a few into the debt of the entire town without benefit. For the majority of Mexicans, very well, let me tell you that it is clear with documents and with the diary of debates of each of these years that we voted against the deputies of national action, it is in the diary of the debates, deputies, I am finished, I also have this information but the other way around the other half the other way around I leave it and if you think it's in the hands of the open one that's what you filled out but allow me good moment allow my moment sorry it's arrived if we have pending the video yes but a moment before we get to the video and the electoral packages, we must tell Mr.

Cárdenas to Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas that if things were like this, and if the FOBAPROA was handled like this, he has no right to say that if he becomes president he will honor the FOBAPROA debt and he has been saying where he wants to go. to say that Mr. Cárdenas promises to be an accomplice of accomplices and that is not the case. You know perfectly well that national action did not give rise to the FOBAPROA here, just as he did not approve the FOBAPROA and proposed a formula that the PD deputies ended up supporting in the Congress of the Union.

When six billion pesos were involved for the government of the federal district, these are orders for video 2. I respond, look, Diego, the engineer Cárdenas is not going to accept the IPAP thing and not only that, I just wrote a book, it's called fobaproa. Open file so we are raising each and every one of the frauds committed in banks. You were a lawyer for banks if you had a lot to do with the bank in Aguas and there are frauds that were committed here if Mexicans are injured it is the biggest looting that has been committed in the history of the country since the colonial era and we are going to review the files of the fire but it is not a clean slate.

Let this be very clear to you, yes, but look, attorney, I do believe that this cannot be a lawsuit of laundry no I am not saying that Mr. Cárdenas is not going to recognize the fobaproa he is telling me in all the newspapers of the moment here it is he is not going to recognize frauds that will be known is another question of the protection of the approval that you saw from we can sir When the resources for the federal district were involved, you are the calm man, you have regretted, I want to say one thing is no, well, here it is, here is the daily debate, which is where the private vote comes from.

Let's see if you allow me, no, because you are lying says the dissenting vote and not only that, a letter that I sent to the deputies telling him that he was going to make an infamy and that we all know that andrés manuel do not make a false debate no no no no here is the dissenting vote please in against the fire itself of course from the ipap yes a year after you locked yourself up with gurría and with the bastida no sir pray here it is yes but but look I think we are going with caution if we are going with caution it is worth accusing because it appears in a magazine, whatever you want to say to whoever you want, it's okay because I'm going to use it, so you gave a major crime, it's whatever you want, perfect, so you'll forgive me if, based on that, I have to tell you that you have committed many crimes what you want not even a little bit this is not honest andrés manuel we have to raise the level of the discussion I ask you that we are talking about a mental table for the nation but what you cannot do is take a magazine that you have in your hands to accuse me of a crime, there are many magazines using what is something that is in the public domain, yes, but allow me, allow me, if we are going to take all types of publications, all types of publications to make accusations, I would have to accuse you of murdering your brother because there are publications that say so and I don't know it and I can't, this is what I've always said he receives because they don't have me grabbed yes yes and they treat city with an accident that my brother suffered of course they grab me seagate but try this one of course Let them prove you right, prove that I have no way of accusing you of being a murderer, no, but you don't have any reason to accuse me of being a thief, we are not talking about public affairs, yes, sir, Ticos, yes, sir, you are messing around, but the version that the regime has used for the place tells me but I never why because I don't like money like you, hell if you like it a lot you are one of the richest men in Mexico without a doubt the richest trial lawyer in this country because we don't go into that issue better head on like no good when you want once and for all because here any document that exists any document that appears any proof that is presented is not true you are lying here are in official document the votes of those from r&b voting in favor of it conditionally Resources will be given to Fobaproa.

If this is also a lie, let's go to the newspaper. The debates exist, but let's move on to the question of honorability. Look, I think it's as simple as the following. You have been saying everywhere that I should give explanations. in relation to a beach that it is not known how he acquired it and that it is most likely that I was dishonest and that I acquired it to the detriment of poor people. I did not understand very well which beach he was referring to, I don't know, but just in case I bring you a document of two, one from Playa Diamond and the other from Playa Eréndira.

If you like, we'll start with Playa Diamond. Here is the property deed that is in the public registry of September 27, 1985, where Carlos García, what is against that property, here is the you have and this register that is already there miguel no no no not raised it is public domain that you were benefited with the diamond tip and what the legend says I propose something to you because you like business you like money and I am an intermediary If I can act as an intermediary so that a change can be made, you give the Cárdenas family a lover's tip that the Cárdenas family gives you Playa Eréndira and I am sure they will not steal it from me or I think that if you think it is enormous, show them the documents I believe that you were benefited by the regime only of player in that day but only with that of plasil in you will say that it is the soup tip diamond tip and love and also with other matters what I would like you to publish so that this debate ends not about his lack of honesty is how he has obtained his money his immense fortune in six what are the issuesWhat have you done as a lawyer because I told you last time, I know many honest and intelligent lawyers who don't have the money that you have, La Jarosa is the richest opponent in this country, aha, he's already made all his money, most of his money.

Yes, trafficking with influences of power, very well, I think you are giving me a lot of publicity because if you don't have one, you are a very good theater actor. To say that we have little to talk about, but look, in any case, I am obliged, not by you, who in these conditions do not deserve the slightest respect, but by the public, by Joaquín on Televisa, by millions of viewers, so yes, allow me, here I have the property deed of the year of 1985 when my partner bought these properties here it is registered in the public registry I do not know how you prove the ownership of your houses I think that with this I am going to explain very well but allow me a little that I have that last time I gave you I had 5% of his fortune but not working 5 portioned although I do not no no I do not have in the 1% more was missing because my ambition is not a problem I do not have I do not have the money or the power I am fighting for justice and for Democracy you are a marvel now from Genoa show me let me show you they are public documents Andrés Manuel I have no other way to try to convince you come on I am no longer interested in convincing you you play you have the people here it is here it is at your service It is in the public registry here are the pages of the public property registry here are the credits from 1983 for 75 million of those pesos he just answered mentioning allow me that I did not deliver it and if you your money then working like many people who do He is trafficking with profits at the highest level of power, if I help him Salinas and help the current regime, well, this does not make any sense.

Look, I was really good. I did not prepare. I brought all the documents. Let's watch TV. Allow me to transit. Now let's go to the video. Don't worry, your video is going to help us a lot to clarify the aroma, said your money, yes, but the video is going to help. The video brings the stenographic copy of that speech. I can read it to you again so that you don't give it. Let's remember for a moment, I say, let's for the second, but I won't get out of here. Nobody could benefit from scrutinizing papers that say nothing and even less mean.

Hundreds of tons of paper are processed, reprocessed and regenerated as we demand that public life in Mexico be regenerated. What a horror it is, nothing more than to reveal that you have always been an accomplice of the regime. I am going to tell you one thing to Joaquín. Because this was what started the debate, I said, this Diego went up to the platform to ask that the papers be burned, the mythical papers of the election of '88, that's what he called them mythical papers, which, as I understand it, comes from a myth, that is, the election of '88 was a milestone in that session, for the first time Ortiz Aran took the stand, the head of the PRI party had never taken the stand.

They had been in the legislature for almost three years and Ortiz Aran had never taken the stand and he was the one who went up to defend the project that the papers will be burned those who signed up in favor of Ortiz's proposal will make Amador Rodríguez Miguel Ángel Yúnes José Antonio González who was from the PRI now in health César Augusto Santiago Agustín Basave Efraín his only work Alicia García Juan José Castillo mod they went up to the platform to defend the ruling, this Mr. Diego, we already saw it, asked that the papers of '88 be burned, that the papers of '88 be destroyed, there was another more sensible proposal and I also consider that it is fairer in every sense that these papers will be micro-signed and that they will be sent to the nation's archive because we were talking about a fraudulent election, I would say that '88 as well as '68 are watersheds in the history of our country and yet the man went up to ask that the papers be burned, that was what caused this debate why we are here how well what I said on that occasion and which is reproduced today was ratified here before you because I have not committed any crime nor have I been complicit with any government what I can assure you is that your accusation is absolute and totally dishonest because you have maintained on Friday and today that I voted for the burning of the electoral packages so that he would arrive in Salinas or be imposed, look at the accusation so that he would arrive in Salinas or impose himself as president to hide the fraud and says Diego Fernández de Cevallos knows as a lawyer that the electoral packages are kept, two lies are not destroyed that I am going to prove first, the burning was not for him to reach Salinas, it was the fourth year of government, it was not to validate his triumph nor his victory, it was the fourth year of his Second government, the central argument that we used then and that I maintain to your face today is that if the government overnight alters the minutes, packages and electoral results for us for national action after three years that the government of Mr.

Salinas had Taking care of, saving and handling those papers for us did not represent anything in that speech that you do not faithfully transmit. I pointed out that it was the bread deputation that openly demanded the delivery of those packages and troops opposed the deputies of that time prior to my legislature. By this you mean that the electoral packages are always saved, it is not true, you will not find any stored electoral packages from any election in this country, do not distort the truth, do not leave or lie in just pointing out something and I talked about what went up to Ortiz Arana, who I had never been on the platform it was a new deputation no no it was not a fundamental act for Salinism yes that is why they sent all these well-known figures and they needed you to remove the chestnuts from the fire as always allow them to allow this space before the burning of these packages they had already tried to burn them because a fire in the chamber as the wind did not blow where the packages were, they were saved by a miracle so they launched the decree precisely to burn the electoral packages if there was a need to give legitimacy to salinas because it had to end with all the fingerprints and they opened at least 25,000 packages with records that showed that Salinas had not won in '88 but moving on to the same thing because I insist I said it from the beginning, you have always played into the hands of the regime, whether you are in '94, you win the debate I am proving something very important, don't do too much, this is public domain, everyone knows, you win the debate, you go up, you would be 16 percent in the polls, you are like 32 to 35 and then you disappear, we are talking about the election of the 94 is to be grateful for what does disappear to give you the air of a zedillo and that it was said that he would prevail in the presidential election and on the night of the presidential election, if you are the first, the electoral results are still arriving at the counting centers and now you He is recognizing Zedillo's victory and he knows that there are questions about this, even The Fox now finishes, he wrote the book, don't let him say that you would be pushed back, so what are you?

Please look, I think going back to the electoral packages and then we move on to the direction of '94, I believe that it takes a lot of innocence or a lot of bad faith to assume that if the electoral packages of that election were controlled by the government of Mr. Salinas for three years and the national action deputation prior to mine could not have access to those packages because the troops because the army that was guarding those packages prevented it. I don't think that any Mexican in good faith can assume that three years later those packages told that historical truth that you were so interested in.

The reasoning that we made may not satisfy you. but if you were a politician in this at least you should not represent perfectly as far as 94 is concerned, look in 94 the one who disappeared from the race was Mr. Cárdenas, how he is disappearing now, that is your concern, that is why the insults are That's why in the disqualifications, if I am what you are referring to, but I shouldn't be here, you wouldn't have to go looking for me in the programs with and you weren't the guest. I'm going to tell myself the following, which I can't accept.

Your disqualification is something that represents value that has some meaning about you. The only thing that could offend me would be praise. I agree that you can say whatever you want about me, I'm not going to do more. Diego caught my attention. and that's why I'm here because this one was apparently retired now that I'm up in the polls in the federal district, we're very old and so in pure logic, knowing you what you suppose, what you imagine is Mr. Diego is already coming to do you the dirty work of the regime, I just want to tell you that you are going to do to us what the wind wants to do, let it be very clear to you, very well, but then what does it mean that there is some vanity, it is nothing more for stops like that so that people know very well what you represent and what I represent and go deeper, that is, what is the national project that you represent and what we represent because that is the most important thing regardless of this debate or this discussion as it is called.

What is important is that there is a clique, a compact group, something very similar to a mafia of zirahuén zas and radio holes, but they should be in jail if we lived in a state of law, this and there is the example that I insist on from fobaproa, the format like Mr. It was said with your complicity that all businesses have private debts and a few in public debt, yes, so that the poor in this country continue to be poor and that the rich are richer, no, no, but there is a reality and this country has 70 Millions of poor people, there is a group of people who blame you for that, because of the men who are in power, the ambitious, the wealthy, the lawyers, but if we had a rule of law and vice justice, those who benefited from FOBAPROA would be in They don't have to go to jail, they live like sultans with all the privileges and this is a topic that Joaquín would like to see as much as he wants to show on television because there is talk about the economy going very well but we don't get into it in depth. the issue of fobaproa, which by the way, if you have never wanted the list of beneficiaries to be made known, I would like to see that we agree on that, as we do an audit, for example, jointly, how we press for it to be made known. the Banamex files of Roberto Hernández that he would explain to us but how it was if he decided ex because he was left with a medieval castle among other things in France near Paris that we could talk about the case of the Cemex insurance company that belonged to Mr.

Rodríguez that Salina The looting cost the people of Mexico 400 million pesos and then the man said the delivery was 100 million dollars. It cost us 400 million dollars to repair it. I'm already finishing and Mr. Simple sold it for 6 million. of dollars I would like us to try I would like to know that the Anahuac bank also that you are a defense lawyer for the board of directors I would like us to go see Serfin who arrived but that you would not like it better that we will start by respecting that it is not that It is not essential in political work that there be a minimum of decorum to respect one another among adversaries, respect sir and you with respect to the people of Mexico gméxico behind your back as you are not the time and I say represent many people wronged by you yes of course for us then no If you invite me to do joint work, we cannot in any case work for that, I know, but all of you are and then perhaps we will bring you to do that.

It is worth mentioning for the simple reason that you are asking for joint work to be done with those who are the cause of All of these, I also want to tell you, Cárdenas was from the PRI and the majority of the great dog from the PRI, we were already working, you have never left the PRI, you are the good regime, they appear to be opponents, they are not, that's why because I am not under the scheme of being. a commune applauder is that there are two population projects, one good and one bad, it is not so Manichaean, it is also that you are at the service of honey minority government the thieves of invention gratitude and thieves yes then this is not a debate This doesn't make sense.

I sincerely believe I was wrong for a reason because I brought documents. I also have it. It is possible, but to integrate my name, allow me again. It wasn't because of some jerky announcements with the final part of this meeting. Before, well, I said that I wanted to show this. the symbol this is what diego represents this is look that is our difference when he governed salinas I never saw his face and I am proud not only did I not see his face I was the leader in my state and every time salinas came to work with us We were protesting when Salinas was at its peak when incense was burned throughout the country by most of the country's political class.

We always maintained that Salinas was a fraud that was going to lead us to this serious economic and social welfare crisis when you They were and applauders in the Salinas government, nearly 500 militants and leaders were not murdered, they did not even touch you with the petal of a rose, they recognized all your triumphs, so this is what makes the difference, we are in a project on the side of the people on the side of the people aggrieved by this regimeCorrupt, we do not want to continue with this policy that has impoverished the people of Mexico. We are against privatization, of course the privatization of education, which is one of Mr.

Zedillo's initiatives. We are against the privatization of industry. electricity and of course against the privatization of oil that is why we say we are different of course we are different fortunately the only thing I question is a poor country where the honesty of politicians is due to not seeing each other's faces due to not meeting each other due to not having a dialogue due to not change arguments and reasons to reduce everything to a brawl, to an alley fight, to a permanent insult, to a disqualification of everything the adversary does. That is criminal if we think about the problems of the poor and the misfortune of this country, if you say that he is honest because he did not see Salinas's face, how dishonest will be a man not like me who saw him face to face with millions of Mexicans but like Mr.

Cárdenas who saw him secretly who denied him for six years and who is now ashamed You have to admit yes yes I saw him yes yes I met him if we talked but I didn't think it was wise to say it if you are five and support your personal honesty for not having spoken with Salinas as the one from Cárdenas justifies don't interrupt me yes as speaking as the one from Cárdenas justifies Cárdenas who saw it hidden and denied it because he maintained that lie for years when I always maintained that he spoke to everyone and I talk to everyone even with you who we have with the engineer Cárdenas is a man of integrity very different from what you represent, I already told you Last time he was known as the squirrel because he lived in the pines, boss Diego, do you feel that you are very satisfied with this?

I already told you who is the boss of bosses. He chose meats. He is an honest man. He is a people of integrity. He had no agreement with Salinas against the Mexicans, as was the case with you, to end this meeting, it undoubtedly generated a lot of expectations in millions of Mexicans and perhaps they wanted something else. At least I must offer the apology that another meeting was not achieved. The gentleman managed. Your purpose is to insult me, to disqualify my party, to state that Mr. Cárdenas is the marvel that you are impeccable and that I am a criminal man, but let me tell you the truth is that the debate suffers, that is why I am a fraud, thank you now, after all, I would tell you here The important thing is that politics is not reduced to a meeting of this nature with this man.

I believe that politics has a much broader scope where absolutely everyone is obliged to do something positive for the country. For my part, there is no grievance. I believe. that even Mr. López Obrador can and should do a lot for this country but that politics is not him or me but him and me and that is what we call for in national action so that we Mexicans are able to look at each other in the face but respect each other and that it is not This ordinary vulgar disqualification is sickening, the one that designs the political path of Mexico, if you care so much about the poor, help politics rise so that we Mexicans can meet, politics is speaking the truth, this will be one side, simulation is telling you to things by their name is manuel thank you diego thank you can you shake hands to seal this civilized meeting well thank you very much we continue