Andy Schectman: Gold's "Great Awakening" Bringing in New Buyers

I'm Charlotte Macleod from Investing News Network and here with me today is Andy Scheckman, president of Miles Franklin. Thank you very much for joining me online today. Nice to see you again. Charlotte. Thanks for inviting me. I'm glad to be here. Yes of course. We're here to talk about

gold

in 2021, but I think before we jump into what's going to happen this year, we need to take a look at what happened in 2020. The last time we talked was, I think, around March of last year , when everything was going a little crazy in the

gold

market, demand was extremely strong, so I wanted to ask if you can tell me how it developed over the rest of the year, what investor demand for gold was like and the demand for gold by investors. unlike anything anyone in this industry has ever experienced.

I've been in this industry for 30 years and working 18 hours a day, seven days a week would have been something I would have laughed at. It was really if it was the only thing that kept me from losing my mind being locked up for the last year, you know, it's the fact that we've been very busy, fortunately, our business has been fantastic, I think there's been a big

awakening

, I guess the way I would explain it Charlotte, I think you know that normally I would see you at the sprock conference in Vancouver and the people at the sprock conference were the same people that I saw at other conferences that the group was small, it was the hard money. people who, the people, the libertarians and the constitutionalists, the people who understood sound money, but you know, we were obviously the minority.

This year has expanded that group substantially, so there is an

awakening

and I guess you could contribute something that for cryptocurrencies there is an education of people um and it's much more diverse and expansive than anything I've ever seen, phone calls from financial advisors and you know, Rick Rule, speaking of sprott, is famous for talking about the fact that in the entire financial matrix, half of one percent of that portfolio is dedicated to precious metals in the United States , and in other words, half of one percent is almost nothing and just the average since 1980 the average has been two and a half percent and I would say we are starting to get back to the average over the last 40 years, that average It's been two and a half percent since 1980 we're starting to get back to that average and if we all What we did was get to the average where two and a half percent of people's portfolios were in precious metals.

Well, that's a five-fold increase than anything I've seen in 30 years, so the bottom line here is that we're starting to enter a period of time where more and more people are realizing that the road to retirement may not be paved with dollars, mutual funds and stock certificates, that looking for alternatives is really important and perhaps it was Kovid that woke people's eyes. but I would certainly say that was one of the real big differences of 2020, and maybe we can be a little bit specific about who these people are that you mentioned, maybe planning for retirement, what this group of people that are coming in and others look like. than covid, what would you say could be the drivers of this new interest?

Well, you know, they say there's no bull market like the gold bull market. They say that because all the other markets talk about our desire to make money, that's called greed, okay? people are motivated by greed and fear in both senses, fear being by far the most persuasive, and motivating, fear or, excuse me, feeling, feeling, and therefore in all other markets we are told that as we make profits we take some money off the table and play with the house money and uh in precious metals it doesn't work that way, the more the price goes up it only reinforces worry and fear from people that, hey, you know something's not right, look at what's going on, look at the price.

What is happening with the dollar? First of all, we don't see a secondary market. So the rise we are seeing is coming from new

buyers

who are realizing that things are not good and are buying gold and silver to avoid it. they get rich, they buy it because they're afraid to buy it to protect themselves and that's the point is people are waking up to the look that even the most die-hard stock bull would have to say, yeah, you know a stock. market that is going to the moon in the economy that is closed and paralyzed and, you know, 100,000 small businesses gone and 30 million people unemployed, a million people in the last report, I mean, at what point do you realize that there is a disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street and these people are worried about even the most ardent stockpoles, so the expansion that I have seen has been in the sector of people who would never have been to the venue of the show that could be there next year, people who consented to their retirement plan to a financial advisor, uh, put it in traditional ways of investing 60 stocks 40 bonds, that's what we were always told to do and we realized you know Hey, if I'm okay now, maybe I'll get lucky. because something is not right here and I think that's one of the most important things is that people are really realizing that something is not right it's kind of like um uh if you're an athlete and you've played sports and you really get into a game and you're deep into the game and you've been playing it for a long time, there may be an event that no one else watching the game will know about, we'll see it, but you feel it and you know that the whole game is going to turn like this, just a little change, you can't articulate it, but you can feel that the momentum just changed, something is changing and I think people realize that something is changing, that the momentum changed, maybe it's the dichotomy in the United States.

It says between red and blue how it is dividing families and friends and you know that it is a time of division in this country and I think that type of fear and worry you regret what was and you realize when you look closely things are changing maybe not for the better going down paths that would have been considered unimaginable um people are waking up look in 2008 charlotte when everything went crazy the fed created four trillion dollars in six years on their balance sheet they did it in six months and now you have a fed that's talking about adding another two trillion dollars this year or a new administration adding to the eight trillion dollars in US government bonds that come due this year, that's 10 trillion dollars, that's what you know is coming due. um the government is going to need to place their debt, it's 300,000 a second one two three four, I mean the numbers are getting so big, people are waking up to the fact, oh my gosh, you know, maybe I should buy some gold and silver and I would like it to be known that I never sell gold and silver to make money.

I am selling it because it is a period of wealth. It's been fine for six thousand years. It's about getting your money back rather than getting your money back. and I think people are realizing that, yeah, definitely, those are really important themes for 2021. Before we get into this year, I want to talk a little bit more about 2020. One of the interesting things about that influx of news. gold

buyers

was that it was actually quite difficult to get gold at times last year the premiums were high. I wanted to ask you if that situation is more or less resolved at this point and how that happened because I think it's a complicated thing to resolve.

I get it right, the US Mint ran out of golden eagles and buffaloes two days ago and, at least temporarily, the baffling part that it happened in January is ridiculous, I mean, that's the inefficiency model, evidently from what they tell me that we are one. of only 27 authorized representatives of the US Mint and who have ever been nominated by the US Mint or one of its subsidiaries, um, so I have a pretty good ear good for the source that they haven't actually run out of gold, they are just having trouble producing. I guess that's inefficient, I guess that's what I'm getting at, but therein lies the problem, the supply chain is very, very fragile and tenuous and when the greed happened, first you had um 60 of everyone.

Silver mines around the planet were closed last year. Most of the refining done in Europe is done in Switzerland and the place where it is done is right on the border of Italy, which, as you know, was hit by Covid, so they were all closed. The US and Canadian Mint closed for a period last year, so supply chains were disrupted overnight. This is a just-in-time industry where you know, like a grocery store, if the trucks stop moving and the producers stop producing you. You're pretty screwed and that's what happened and the bonuses went to the moon, so I think you'll see that again, which brings me to a point if you'll allow me to open it up for a moment.

I want to just diverge and this might take a couple of minutes, but I think it's important because I think 2020 was very eye-opening for me on a particular level having to do with what happened in the Comex market and I think your listeners should understand that. , but I want to explain a trend that I have been seeing since 2017 and it is a trend that I think explains where we are headed with gold. Before we talk, well, let's talk about where I see things going next. A year later too, but this is what I've seen since 2017. Well, 2017 out of nowhere was, first of all, the worst year to own a precious metals company.

Bitcoin was going to the moon. And at that time, six out of 10 phones. The calls we had were people selling to central banks, they were net sellers of gold. Gold was right, no one wanted it in 2017. And then out of nowhere the German Bundesbank comes out and says we want our gold back and it was very unusual. to see that they said we want it back by 2020. shortly after we saw the bank of austria, the bank of hungary, the bank of poland, the dutch national bank, the bank of turkey, and so on, they requested the return of a continued exodus of gold from The New York Fed at the Bank of England allocated everything for 2020.

It was an interesting thing in 2018, the following year, central banks went from being net sellers of gold the year before to accumulating more gold than in any moment of the previous 60 years combined. Out of nowhere, it was very interesting the next year, 2019, that trend exacerbated at 90 increased by 90, so central banks are perversely buying gold and taking it out of the Bank of England and the New York Federal Reserve

bringing

it into home. We'll get to that in a moment here, but um, and now they're buying in large quantities after being net sellers for God knows how long, in April 2019 the biggest event of my career happens and that's the Bank for International Settlements in Basel. switzerland they are the central banker the central bank reclassifies gold as a tier one asset from a tier 3 asset joining US treasuries as the only real tier 1 assets used by central banks and a tier 3 asset It meant that only 50 were calculated on the balance sheet which combined with the fact that no interest was charged or paid on gold, the fact that the market was unpredictable and that it cost money to store it, the central bankers never wanted it, in fact , they were always net sellers and that's really the biggest reason why that 50 percent cut in the balance sheet would have prevented them from selling bonds and doing business according to their balance sheet, so they got rid of it and bought Treasuries that paid interest, which helped support the bond market and the dollar out of nowhere. after 80 years of just being treasuries that banks would use or US dollars, they reclassified gold, a huge big event and the central banks of course anticipated that decision by a year and a half and everyone asked for it to be returned, like this that we see a pattern now your gold rises to the highest form of collateral it is a risk-free asset now level one means risk-free all the banks bring it home they reclassify it they buy it a lot for a year and a half 2020 last year that The trend continues Central bankers are buying gold, but this is where it gets really interesting in the Comex market.

Normally, the Comex market never delivers gold. It is a platform to cover the exhibition. If this represents a thousand ounces of gold. Gold in my warehouse. I will sell a thousand ounces on paper, so if one goes up, the other goes down proportionately. I am always neutral in the market regarding the price of gold. I use the Comex to hedge my exposure just as a farmer would hedge production. plant a field in April and not be able to harvest until September all the uncertainty with the weather and whatever, so they hedge their exposure, they guarantee a price that is used to cover the risk correctly and very, very few contracts would hold. for delivery, but on a platform that is the world's mechanism for setting the price, you have to deliver if people ask for it or the platform becomes a farce, so if you go to set the price and someone saysThat's fine, I'll accept it. at that price, but I want delivery, you have to deliver anyway to make a long story short, usually, about the commitment of the traders, usually about the report that the commodity exchange publishes, there are two groups of traders, the commercial banks and the speculators, which would be the hedge funds and one goes, the other goes the other way around.

If hedge funds go short, commercial banks always go short and vice versa, and it has always been a battle that commercial banks usually win. In 2020 we saw the emergence of a new group of people. listed in the Comex report called the others and these people are family offices and sovereign wealth funds and the richest people in the world and I will introduce it. I have no proof of this, but it seems certain to me that they know the people, maybe they know the central bankers. You know the people who hoard gold and bring it home because the big story this year is these guys take more gold out of the Comex market through delivery in one month than we've ever seen in a year, they took out almost a decade of market metal.

Exchange this year right now the others for the next contract and the silver is the last. I looked at over ten thousand contracts of 5,000 ounces each 50 million ounces of silver these people are not playing around, they are the richest, most sophisticated and well financed. well-informed traders facing commercial banks a core issue of acquiring gold and silver at any price and taking it off the exchanges taking possession eliminating counterparty risk I think these people are doing this before what comes next these people I know What comes next, obviously, is a digital currency and when the digital currency arrives, if you want to be outside the system, you have cryptocurrencies, you have precious metals next to it, you are trapped inside the system, I think that is coming and because of the movements of the most sophisticated players on the planet, I think you can see that through them they are telegraphing that something is coming, so it's a lot of

great

information for us to digest.

I think a question we need to ask ourselves is what does it all mean? for the price, if there are so many big entities getting their gold back, they want gold now, it seems like we should have a much higher price than we have now, although we are still at elevated levels, so what would be your opinion on that market maximum? This is a manipulated point and anyone who says otherwise does not know what they are talking about. Jp Morgan paid a fine of $920 million, the largest fine ever imposed by the Department of Justice on a commercial bank for manipulating the metals market.

Um, you know, there are still four, there are eight large concentrated traders that are commercial banks in the Comex market right now that are short, they are losing billions and billions of dollars, they are holding down the price of paper, they are caught up. We're trying to get out and I think if you look at what Jp Morgan did, it's classic mismanagement, they were the big shorts, now they're net long, they're doubling down compared to the other commercial banks, but they're actually using the short price of the paper since 2011 en masse. of one billion ounces of silver, which is the largest physical silver position ever seen in the world, 10 times what the Hunt brothers tried to buy and north of 25 million ounces of gold, in total, is the physical position of physical metal the world has ever seen and bought it at subsidized prices keeping the price low.

You see, Charlotte, the only way to successfully manipulate a market over time is to push it in the direction it's going, and the central banks that they had in the commercial banks really had carte blanche to manipulate a market. market that no one wanted to be a part of for a long time and they got caught and I think now the commercial banks are in big trouble, the ones that are still short are bleeding, I don't think it was 14 billion dollars last time I looked. In short, I have lost, I am on the wrong side of short trading, now normally the commercial banks win, but looking at this group and the others and seeing the global acquisition of gold, I think they are in trouble and are trying as hard as they can. can mitigate the rally and when you see a market like Friday where 1.1 billion ounces of silver were dumped at the open, that's global demand for a year dumped at the open now, no, you don't have to be, uh, have any formal understanding of finance to know that if you're going to sell something you're not selling it at the slightest exchange and just as New York opens and London closes all at once, you're not going to fully maximize your price. what you're going to do is lower the price to create a perception, so 1.1 billion ounces of silver paper was thrown into the open on Friday, it reeks of desperation, they're going crazy, they're trying to hedge, they are trying to maintain.

People are trying to disentangle the logic that when capital is raided and all hell breaks loose, let's lower the price of gold and silver so that people don't link the two, they make a counterintuitive attack. in the market so people don't look here, everything is fine with stocks and bonds, you will be fine, that's what they are trying to do, but their actions speak a lot more than that when we talk about the price of silver in particular Let's not forget it. The chinese have embarked on the belt, road and rail initiative, the largest infrastructure effort in human history linking 65 percent of the world's population 40 percent of gdp across asia and africa the need for silver is insatiable last year we had a 300 million ounce deficit With the industry shutting down now the industry is slowly coming back online and this massive initiative to build infrastructure across the land mass largest ever will need silver if silver is indispensable in a technological world through batteries and solar energy and anything that drives uses electricity.

Silver is indispensable so when we talk about where things are going I would like to mention just one thing and I used to be a financial advisor a long time ago and I mentioned this on a lot of calls that I sit on when you take the series 7 that allows you to become broker, you get such a big book, spend a week in a class learning, and then take the exam to become a stockbroker. I will never forget this page, one, page one of this book. big man is positioned, look what he says. the

great

men and women are doing since 2017, buying large quantities of gold and silver, taking physical possession of it, taking it off the exchanges, taking it away from the Federal Reserve at the Bank of England, levitating it to a level one status um and then let's not forget what um you know, what is the meeting of the world monetary organizations and dabo says that this made the great reset coming and you can see the preparations that have been made in the face of this great reset by the most sophisticated rich people in the world and I'll take a step back and tell you that if it weren't for people like you, Charlotte, who the hell knew that gold was reclassified as a tier one asset.

Does anyone know that the international monetary fund that was anointed at Bretton Woods in 1944 came out publicly on their website and called for a new Bretton Woods? Bretton Woods is the dollar standard, that is, when the point was the petro dollar, hey, it was you. I know that's when the dollar became the dollar and everyone was backed by gold and everyone pegged their currency to the dollar and it became the world's reserve currency and now you have 144 countries, uh, that's 150, no matter how many there are now. everyone. they're saying we want a new system so things are happening and we're not getting the information and that's allowing the big money to get into position and there's enough, they scatter some crumbs so people can see them if they look hard enough and I'll say , well, we told you we posted it, but no one talks about it, so I think this is a very tenuous challenging moment where you have to trust your instincts more than your eyes and you have to realize that this is a moment very important. time and when you see what the positioning of the most sophisticated traders in the world is doing, I think you buy gold and silver because it is wealth, they are wealth and not to get rich but to preserve purchasing power in a world that has gone crazy in so much in many ways, including the right to money creation and just a follow-up question, when we see this price action that seems unnatural, these price drops like the ones you mention, we saw them in January, how does that compare to what What are you seeing from people?

Who do you like your buyers? Your clients. Are they negotiating? I guess in conjunction with that or are you seeing something different from them completely inverse? If I could, if I could, I could really swear I would do it on your channel, but I won't, but it's complete. and a total hoot because as the price goes down our business skyrockets, people realize the manipulation in the market and they are using it against the cartel that keeps the price of paper low, no one sells to anyone when the price goes up . Downstairs people are not selling and they realize that the markets do not work that way.

There is a gentleman named Dimitri Speck who is an incredible analyst and he has shown in some of his charts how for years the cartel, the banking cartel, the commercial banks that they control. the price of gold will lower the price at the morning point and at the afternoon point, so at the morning point you have Asia transitioning to Europe and then you have London closing as it transitions to the US and is right at the thinnest negotiating point. Bam, they throw it out, it's the dumbest thing in the world for anyone trying to maximize value, but it's playbook 101 for those trying to create a perception of reality to throw people off the path to drive down the price and defeat the sentiment with the price. and rhetoric uh anti-gold rhetoric from places like Bloomberg and CNBC and driving the price down counterintuitively like the day the market crashes in March or when the capital gets raided and I think it's so funny how I know that the market falls in March is crushed by 40 and gold falls well this is, this is a rush to liquidity no, it's not a rush to liquidity it's not a rush to liquidity I don't care how big the margin debt is half of the people who have margin don't own the gold it's not a race towards liquidity it's about perception management um and it's a no-look pass.

I have always talked about the book The Art of War, which is a book that tells you how to beat your opponent without throwing a punch. It was written in the 5th century BC. C. by a Chinese military strategist. Well, this book is more than just a good conversation piece. It is taught in required readings at West Point and the CIA. It is taught in all business schools around the world. Around the world, in the corporate hierarchy and in law schools, in argument making, it is widely taught that misdirection is very pervasive and when I refer to playbook 101 that is when things should go the other way.

On the other hand, that's what they do, they mislead the public. We will see the days when the stock market goes up, they will let gold run because no one is watching, but when the stock market takes a hit or something bad happens, that is when the algorithms kick in and drive the price down, no, no, No. Look, you don't want to sit here and hold on to your stocks, but if you take Bitcoin out of the equation and cryptocurrency silver was the best performing asset in the world last year, it's up 50 percent, a hundred percent since March. and gold up, I don't know, 30 percent, they're in a traditional world, that's not incredible, we're all used to believing that markets are supposed to behave like bitcoin and all the other currencies or um um. assets that have gone to the moon due to distortions and massive money creation and low interest rates and there will be a price to pay, Charlotte for all of this, mother nature has a way of getting revenge and the more things are pushed outside the boundaries of what is normal and natural, the greater the revenge she will have on those who messed with her, so I don't want to be deep, but I believe in my soul that there will be a price for a price. to pay for massive money creation, the only thing stopping us from being in hyperinflation right now is that there is no velocity of money and, you know, that's where the digital dollar comes into play, if the fed currency comes into play.

They have now sown the seeds of massive inflation because they can now avoid lending money through commercial banks who have no interest in lending money to the public in an economy that is what it is, their balance sheets are already in tatters and they are not They don't want to make loans, they prefer to leave all their money in the Fed's reserve account, earning 80 basis points safely and for their listeners who don't quite understand what I mean, that money lends itself to exist. commercial banks um or or a bank when you go and askborrowed money to get a loan this is how money is created when the Fed does quantitative easing it is actually deflationary unless the banks play along and lend the money they are paid to sell.

The bonds go back to the Federal Reserve if they do not lend the money they are not allowed access to the money that is in a reserve account and that is where all the money that has been created by the Federal Reserve during the last four years is located. Five six trillion plus some of it is in reserve accounts at the Federal Reserve in the name of this commercial bank because they don't want to lend, so we don't have speed. If that happens, people understand very quickly why they should own gold and silver right now, these price movements that are contradictory, Charlotte, it's a subsidy because the writing is on the wall.

We are going to reach much higher prices and it will not be about getting rich, it will be a reflection of a dollar that is collapsing. You've really given us a lot to think about, I have a couple of questions, hopefully quick, before I let you go. The first is about silver, which has come up a little bit in this interview, what the demand is for investors looking for silver right now and where it's going. Much bigger than anything I've ever imagined, 2021 accounts for 80 percent of every order we place and last year we did five times more business than a normal year. 80 percent of every transaction we made contained silver, by far, which is huge. in demand in this industry and I think it's because people realize that its price is almost 50 percent of its 1980 all-time high, so it represents possibly the buying opportunity of a generation;

It has massive demand much greater than gold and in 2021 it will be one of the only assets on the planet that is bracketed on two sides, it has investment demand, it has industrial demand and the industry was out last year, that is, the industry was on the sidelines for the most part, so we had a seven or eight percent decline in industry demand, but look at it this way in the world that is becoming more and more green, you have the new deal Biden's green plan, so he will switch from combustible engines and fossil fuels to vehicles powered by batteries and solar panels.

All solar panels already account for about 20 percent of all extraction that comes out of the earth each year, which is about 800 million ounces, so almost 200 million ounces a year already go to solar panels. and now we are moving in that direction where they will be mandatory. future construction, so I think one of the things that we will see, not to mention the new field of biocides is an aerosol that will be on your cell phone or on a countertop or whatever and that has money to fight bacteria and viruses and all the needs for silver in a digital world, a world going green, are fantastic and with the Chinese Belt and Road initiative, the need for silver is growing and last year meant that 800 million ounces were mined and demand exceeded 1.1 billion. so, a deficit of 300 million that will continue, Keith Neumeyer and I did an interview the other day where he told me that what is coming out of the ground is eight to one, it is priced at 73 to one, this is such a buying opportunity good as Bitcoin was.

A few years ago I wanted to say that it really is and it's hard for me to say because I don't want to recommend that people buy silver to get rich, that's not what it's about, but when you look at the fundamentals, when you look at the supply side. deficit when you look at the huge investment demand, what will happen this year, I think this will be the year of silver, is that as the price goes up, industrialists like Apple, Samsung and Tesla will realize what the heck , the silver has been exhausted because it has been found. in nature in a form called epithermal very close to the surface the large deposits were found a long time ago 70 of what reaches the market comes as a byproduct of the extraction of other metals they are going to say I need five dollars in silver to Let's do this iPhone, but let's get enough for the next 50 years.

Well, when they do, Samsung will do the same thing and then Tesla will do it, and while that happens, not only does the price of silver go up to the moon, but The investment side is like, wow, hedge funds are watching , let's go in and they will start fighting each other and it will be a battle between the investments and the industrialists. There are very few assets on the planet that have both, gold is almost exclusively. An investment has something industrial about it, but silver has both, it is a massive monetary metal, on the one hand, but it is an industrial metal that is needed in an increasingly digital and green world and already has a large deficit.

I hope silver does incredibly well, and it does. Again, warning, don't buy silver to get rich, that's not what I'm saying, but it has huge potential and it would be hard for me not to realize that, okay, last question. I always like to return these interviews to people that you're watching if you're an investor who's taken all of this into what's your best advice for someone like that in the next year. I think the best way to build a portfolio and be prudent is to do what the Swiss have done for over 300 years and their model is that of a pyramid the base of your pyramid should not risk speculation the base of your pyramid should be things like uh cash paid by the house gold silver platinum palladium very very very conservative things low growth low yield and insurance in the middle part of your pyramid used to say put treasuries in there, but treasuries are effectively negative in this moment when you have 80 basis points on the 10-year bond or 90 basis points or even one percent on the 10-year bond when inflation is two, three, four. times that, if not higher, ask john williams he will tell you it's probably seven, eight or ten times higher.

He's the provider of shadowstats.com, so Treasuries aren't a good option for the middle portion of the pyramid, but maybe something like a utility stock to rule out. a dividend, something that is stable, safe and generates a small income in the top 10 percent of your pyramid is cryptocurrencies and mining stocks. I guess the most important thing here is not to risk the bottom of your pyramid too much for Speculation realizes that, based on historical precedent, every market out there, with the exception perhaps of precious metals, is massively overvalued by all accounts. traditional metrics and thinking that you know we're going to a modern monetary theory and the rules of economics have changed, I think that's a big mistake, I would say 2021 should be about being conservative and realizing that profits are not a word of four letters, take some money off the table and be grateful for the fact that you didn't get screwed in 2020 because, in my opinion, Looking at what happened, the markets were supported by the Federal Reserve and at some point that support will come to an end and the markets will fall under their own weight.

I know that sounds a little pessimistic and selfish for what I'm trying to say, but I think anyone who looks at it objectively and measures it by historical measures and standards would find it difficult to say that all markets exhale and this is one that has been inhaling. for a long time. We need to take a breather, I think we will and it could be big, so I think it's about being conservative about the return on your money, taking a back seat this year to return it and realizing that the big money is is preparing for a change and you can see it in what they are doing, if you do nothing else, do what the big money does, buy some gold and silver, take possession of it and have some cash, because having cash and liquidity gives you the courage and tools to take it.

Take advantage of these massive changes we're going to see, so keep some powder dry too. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today. I really enjoyed hearing everything you had to say, it was nice to see. Charlotte, I hope next time it will be in person in Vancouver. I hope next July I will always be here if you want to stop by and say hello or I would like him to stop by and say hello. I would appreciate. that and in the meantime, stay well and I hope to pick up where we left off hopefully at some point in the not too distant future hopefully soon thank you so much again once again I'm charlotte macleod from the investment news network and this It's Andy.

Scheckman with Miles Franklin you