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Acoustic Treatment with Bobby Owsinski (Frank Zappa, The Byrds)- Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro

Acoustic Treatment with Bobby Owsinski (Frank Zappa, The Byrds)- Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro
hi everybody hope you're doing marvelously well I'm sitting here with the great

Bobby

Oh since keep that right perfectly okay good well I took me a little bit of time to sort of practice that one practice makes perfect oh yes and I have a Polish wife so if I mess this up on that I'm in serious trouble so I have a lot of questions to ask you please um now obviously you're a mentor to so many people you've you've got a lot of great books and a lot of great resources out there where people can fact one of the ones I saw recently is really the one that I want to talk about because even though there's tons of mixing stuff of yours which I've followed and amused and tips and tricks I've stolen from you the big question I think on so many people's mind now is room

acoustic

s specifically because of this revolution in DI W is where we can sit at home in any environment bedrooms garages basements all of these kind of environments the problem we face is they're less than ideal now you've had this out for about six or seven years now yeah yeah and it's not new but it's still relevant because let's face it it's an evergreen subject physics of physics they don't change with with technology the physics of the physics there'll be a link and all that kind of good stuff going on down here so the question is in that video that you did I can't remember the budget you you posed it was very low of how you can massively...
acoustic treatment with bobby owsinski frank zappa the byrds   warren huart produce like a pro
improve yeah that was a presentation I gave at Nimbus Nimbus recording Nimbus studios Nimbus in Vancouver it's a school recording school which is a wonderful facility by the way one of the best anywhere when it comes to our business and Bob Ezrin school Bob Ezrin school yes it was how to fix your

acoustic

environment for $150 or less and basically the whole idea is your listening environment probably is the thing that you think least of now not you cuz you're pro but many people are just getting into this especially musicians that want to do their own recording they'll buy expensive speakers they'll buy expensive gear but the last thing they'll think about is the

acoustic

s of the room which is the most important because it's a symbiosis of how the speakers in the room are working together but it's not rocket science it doesn't take a huge amount of money to actually fix your environment up the whole thing to understand though is there are two parts to this there is isolation in there's room

treatment

so if you think that you're going to put some

acoustic

foam up on the wall and suddenly your kids next door are not going to hear for the neighbors now that doesn't work that way it's expensive to get isolation but room

treatment

is inexpensive if you can swing a hammer and you can buy a lot of the materials locally it won't cost you that much at all to really make a big difference will it be will it sound like this room no but...
acoustic treatment with bobby owsinski frank zappa the byrds   warren huart produce like a pro
you'll get pretty close I mean you'll get 90% of the way there but as we know with mixing with everything that you and I do every day it's the extra percent that costs the most money and takes the most time that being said this will get you a good way of a good way along all it is is creating the proper environment for you to listen to and it doesn't take all that much fantastic is there specific things that jump out to you for in that budget they're going to make huge improvements to a room well the big thing is you want to create what they call an RF Z which is a reflection for your zone around your listening space and this occurs in every good playback environment whether you realize it or not it's built into it so you don't want to have reflections that are bouncing in your ears you want to hear exactly what's coming out of the speakers without any reflections that are cancelling out any frequencies so the way you do that is by absorbing those frequencies on the walls and also the ceiling and that's the big part it's the ceiling part so what you have to do is build some

acoustic

panels or buy them because now you can get them a lot of places and you put a few up on each side of the listening environment and over your head and you're a long way there to creating that RFC now of course the next big thing would be to fix the wall behind you so you don't have things that are splashing back at you the back of your head but again...
acoustic treatment with bobby owsinski frank zappa the byrds   warren huart produce like a pro
that's not too difficult either because you'll either deaden it with

acoustic

panels or you can diffuse the sound you can make its play different ways and you'll do that very cheaply and inexpensively with the bookshelf filled with things it just can't be randomizing yes you randomized it yeah fantastic now with isolation you touched on that I mean that's a whole different kind of discussion because at my studio as a room within a room yeah and cost an absolute fortune so yeah yeah there's no way around that because it takes a lot of material because we're talking mass and the next thing is mass means a lot of labour goes into it as well and one of the biggest things that people kind of forget is the fact that you have to think of it like a fish tank if there are any air spaces the water drains out and it's the same thing with your room if you have any air spaces then you're going to have air the trains out so now all of whatever you did create some isolation is no longer useful to you so not only do you have to add a lot of mass but you also have to seal it very well which brings up the next problem which is if you have the sealed room it's very uncomfortable to be in unless you exchange the air so then you get into expensive air conditioning so there we have multiple problems in just creating this isolated environment not to say they can't be done at a price that's within the realm of what many musicians can afford or...
engineers yeah you can do it but it's not going to be $150 sure you know I've known from over the years of building studios when we just have separation between control rooms and live rooms we take the concrete floor and break it yep yeah it's that's not that was a lot of investment I don't think that that's among many of us but I also wonder it's all about priorities yes it's all about that would be in the purest sense where I wouldn't want to hear the kick drum or the bass amp in the control room whatever but the reality is for most people if you can look past those kind of situations you can still get great results yeah I mean I think we both know of situations where and probably you've been in this and I know I have you're in an environment and you just learn to deal with it you get used to that you learn what works and what doesn't and you figure it out your ears automatically figure it out if you know what to listen for and and you can make work it's just like speakers I never believed that there's a perfect speaker there was a speaker that you're used to absolutely I think isn't that sort of in general learning your room I mean yeah for me that's actually what mastering engineers have done for me yes you know I've mixed something I send it off to Gavin and Gavin comes back and says yeah it's really good but you had a 200 Hertz bump yeah so you even though I don't hear that in my room I...
start to become aware of it so maybe pull out a little 200 on on some areas where it was building up especially for those of us have consoles where one 150 200 always seems to have a build up no kidding yeah that definitely happens and you know it's funny because there's a problem in every room for the most part and when you find that problem you either learn how to work around it or it takes a lot of money to fix it show so usually the best way to do it the most expeditious ways to learn how to work around it and I'm sure that's probably the case with you and I know it is for me or it's like no and no I have this problem and I know it's gonna take a lot of time and money and experimentation because even the best

acoustic

ians experiment a lot that's one of the things that kind of astounded me when I finally got into this and it was like all those guys the experiment as much does anybody else to make things right you know and it's all said and done there there's a lot of art in the science as well and there's a lot of craft so it's not not what we think all the time and I mean is absolutely dead doesn't mean it sounds good oh never did yeah although there is one place where that works and that's voiceovers right where they want a fairly dead environment and they need a dead environment but other than that no off like a Foley studio sometimes they weren't really dead awesome I remember sending a mix off to mark ender maybe...
15 plus years ago and apologizing for like a little bit of ambience in the vocal Mike expecting with the guys you know as gray as that for two people to be kind of upset with me you know and he's like oh good I won't have to use as many reverb yeah yeah all right I think that that is part of our job is to work around but what I love about this 150 dollar kind of suggestion is it takes something which may be completely unusable and bring it to a place where it's usable because you know in garages in particular concrete everywhere steel or aluminum doors you know all of this kind of stuff that's going to be almost impossible to work with it's really difficult but the fact the matter is if you create this reflection free zone you're a long way there now the next question would be okay how many

acoustic

panels do I need well you need as many as as big as the zone needs to be now how big does that need to be if you having reflections that are coming back at you then you need more panels so there's a way to figure that out and that's the old mirror trick and you put a mirror against the wall and every place that you can see the speaker that means you need a panel

acoustic

panel so I finally get to a point point where you don't see the speaker any longer and you don't need a panel there alright this is it in my mind I'm remembering opinions on speakers because when you get people giving you their opinion on you know this mate you see is...
here the channel necks the atoms you know all these different makes I'm always intrigued when I speaker really really well and somebody comes back to me and says oh I don't like those those are too bright too low middle II to this and to that we're obviously that's their experience based in the room their own I mean there's accepted looking at curves and saying it's bright or dull but it's interesting until I go into a room like this which is extremely well balanced I don't know if I really know my speakers in fact you know what they're really telling me yeah and so I take that information I think that is the beauty of having a mastering engineer yeah is that I can sort of suspend I can I can let something else be that last process that last person that I can talk to yeah and it's really beautiful our string studio which is actually the old Oasis oh yeah with you know we're in America with Eddie Schreyer and I remember the low end on my mix was just so horrific but I didn't know because my speakers were like this but sure yeah and my room was whatever but the speakers weren't going to

produce

20 or 40 Hertz at least not in enough consistency that would have really bothered me and then I went into this room with giant speakers like this and I'm just like oh I'm embarrassed because all this low Rumble going on and all this kind of stuff so then think we can ever underestimate a good listening environment but more...
importantly or as importantly we can't underestimate the job of a great mastering engineer are you an MS 10 guy I was no longer I used to use them all the time all the time all the time and then I started monitoring on other speakers and got to enjoy them for longer periods of time and didn't wasn't as fatigued until eventually they would come on once or twice a day maximum and then not for a couple of days and I started because I had my own room I started tracking and mixing on the same speakers and didn't have that mentality of the Enna's ten of going these are my tracking speakers yeah because for a while I'm sure like most of us because of that 7 DB left at 1.5 care you get used to the snare drum going crack and guitars going around but after a while you know how to identify that same aggression other speakers so you don't need them as much but I for the longest time that was the only way I knew how to know a knew whether a guitar or a snare drum sounded good was to check them on the honest ends I could never make them work for whatever reason probably that probably that's that made right probably and it's interesting because I went to a friend of ours and shall remain nameless very big mixing engineer and I said and the reason why why no I mean I can tell you that we know well neither to a size it still makes him - tenzin love them well anyway I said to him okay how do you do this and he said well I turn especially the low end I said...
how do you get your low end to work and he says well I turned up loud enough that I can see the the cones crinkle and then I know I have it right whoa okay I don't think I can do that so it just goes to show you whatever you need to do to make it work but it was like little gods I I love those yeah oh yeah all those speakers but there's a litter every guy I knew the mixed on them Dave jerden in particular with the mastering lab crossovers it yeah it was the way to go my only live cross absolutely the they would always say the same thing that that when when it just went started to distort on the kick drum they knew they had it yeah there was always these tells four speakers I don't know if that's good or bad well I think in a world now where we have so much choice it would be considered bad but at that time little gods were one of the most effective speakers because of that we call it Joule concentric but that that basically still my favorite actually I love dual concentric speakers I have a hard time using anything else yeah because the everything was coming at you from one direction you didn't have that thing where you like which I still have now with tweeters whether the rhythm or not you know you're sort of like oh I moved my head through yeah you know with those kind of speakers it was always you know the trade-off was maybe on the low-end not quite having the detail you wanted but everything else was so incredible about it I just heard some AM...
peons that I really enjoyed as a matter fact that tract on them and I thought boy these are really good I'm really liking these which were not dual concentric but if I felt that I could make the transition I don't know if I will but I enjoyed it there's a lot of good talked about yeah and but again it comes back to you know Gavin and Reuben have atcs and when I come in here it sounds absolutely amazing so I think should I get ATC's but then I think to myself well I have I have a gentle X since the 90s oh no no you used to that sound I'm used to that sound yeah although there are new dual concentric are supposed to be wonderful they are amazing it you've heard them I've heard they brought them over I absolutely love them but I just said but I know how to make these sound great yeah sure but you know when people ask me now and I think this is a good good good place to go to when people ask me now about what they should buy I always say if you're not used to something then you're a now in a beautiful place where you don't have to rely on some of us old timers you know like they've been doing this for twenty or thirty years you'd have to rely on our opinion so much you can what I mean is you can you can align on you can align some of the wisdom but you don't necessarily have to use the same equipment we do yeah yeah like people say should I buy a console I'm like for mixing you know well Kenda mixes in the Box now yeah uh 9j...
or 9k for yes yeah last guy ever expected to move off an ssl the mother most anal mixes is now mixing in the box so what does that tell you you know Neal Avron a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're forced to do recalls that are fast sure so if you can't do it somebody else can there's a lot of that involved anymore so it's kind of like well you have to evolve with the industry the reason why I chose those two guys er because there's lots of catchphrase names of people that mix in the box right and most of that was out of a necessity like you say they always one person in particular that always talks about mixing the boss talks about being in a hotel room and I totally relate to that you're on it yeah but Neal and Mark did this very gradual process they weren't consoles like I mixed with neo like four or five years ago and he was on 4k much it was the 6k but yeah an SSL then he went as a self summing mark do the same thing as this SSL to summing yeah and now in the box and there's been no degradation of quality and they did this as a gradual thing and definitely the necessity part of it but their two guys I respect because I realized that they they didn't lose any of the quality along the way there was no like you know I mean yeah yeah no I and I know many I feel the same way I can do what I can do in the Box it's not going to sound quite as good as on a console boy it's gonna sound pretty much there yeah it's not enough...
the people are going to say oh I hate this mix because it just doesn't have the sound we're all like that now yeah well the tools are better first of all and second of all you learn how to adapt it's been what ten years oh it's been more than that now it's we're 15 years into this we're mixing in the box is more and more of a reality so in the beginning yes there was a quality problem there was and it was gain staging for the most part because it was everyone thought well I can really push this hard but when you did that makes collapsed and then when everybody figured out the game staging is similar to analog and you have to treat it that way and then suddenly the mixes started sound bigger more open and then the tools got better and all the way around so now that's what we're at where we're at that conjunction of of ability and capability I think talking of that sort of crossover there it's making me think of something I I'm enjoying some of the makers finally I think moving away from having the name check old pieces of equipment yes I agree you know I mean I feel like if I'm 13 years old and I've got my laptop or whatever setup I've got I'm just going to upset some of our viewers but why do I really need to no one in LA to areas yeah right as much as I love LA to A's shouldn't I just have like the ability to have different flavors impression and I get it because you know when when it first came in you...
know you wanted those catchphrases to draw guys like you and I wanted to mix it but now I now I feel like for a new generation of people we like we're talking about with speakers yeah yeah you know we it's it's really a case of like just because we make not meet us particularly but just because somebody uses Ennis tense doesn't mean Ennis tends are the best for the job anymore you know it's like I'm really enjoying that the sort of the thinker head kind of companies they're doing that I think the plugins a lot of this has to do with the fact that we've kind of run out of those old pieces sure and the ones that are starting the ones that are left it's not like they had great popularity anyway so you were talking to Gavin earlier and I what I what you touched on for a while I enjoyed that you guys were talking about was tape and something that Tim Palmer and I would have had a lot of conversations about about the what the love affair with tape wasn't really there when we were on tape Tommy Bukhari talked about it yeah well yeah he goes everybody we all said the same thing we used to have to like take 10k and do it 3d beyond everything yeah to have it come back sounding the same way that we were printing her and so this love affair with tape I think has got a little bit lost because a it never sounded like you were saying with Gavin the same of the way the way you printed it number one and secondly the benefit of tape wasn't...
necessarily as much as the sonics but the mentality of sending a guy or a girl in there to perform not with the fix-it afterwards mentality I think that that's something that's more important about tape that we should remember is that when you realize that you had to get it right that you went into the room here's the bass player and went oh I'm on top of the kick drum yes right right didn't go can you edit me back yeah you went back in there and played and the fact that you had musicians that were actually in the room playing together and there was a certain amount of leakage that has this beauty as well in its place and boy there's so much that we hear now that doesn't have well has musicians playing but they're not playing together I'm not going to lament the fact that that's happened Chuck because it's it's the evolution of the business it's the way it works but boy that there's a beauty to having great musicians playing together I think we're in a period I this morning I was chatting with some of the subscribers and stuff and one of the things that we talked about was was how technology always shapes what we do yeah but it always settles and I was using the analogy of the dx7 and when the dx7 came out oh yeah we had Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer 's dx7 came out and something we had doogie howser themed you know I mean we had like yeah a terrible sounding thin electric piano because it was the new electric...
piano but then give it five years everybody was like whoa wait there that sounds thin and horrible yeah not taking anything away from a dx7 it was a great keyboard but we sort of always do this as humanity we would take a new piece of equipment and you know the original 16-bit or 8-bit digital comes out everybody starts making records on that and then goes all the way there yeah that's not better yeah you know so I think that I really feel strongly that as much as we have liked online like mastering services I actually feel like they will exist and they will continue to flourish but I think there will be an understanding of why you need a mastering engineer more and more like a boutique business will actually like harden and actually become more relevant in the same way that you want to buy a guitar you now go to somebody who can build a guitar exactly the way you want it yeah just because you can buy a $500 guitar that plays like a Les Paul yeah that's nice but what about that guy or that girl that can make you that guitar which is everything you want well along those lines I think this goes beyond the line actually but good I've talked to many master engineers that told me they're getting stems in beautiful the idea being okay your environment is better than the mixers so why don't you put the song together I think that's great you do yeah I think it's great because I don't look Conan a mastering engineer ask me for stems because I want to go...
back and figure out why yeah he wants it right but that's what this is what I do for a living now if a client is like I am unsure I I want your app expertise it depends on the dynamic a well yeah help you in the long run because then that means there's fewer revisions that you have to think exactly so I think I think for a mastering engineer if they're asking for stems there's there's a reality that maybe that you know but then they're also communicating a something that they need improved upon I don't know what they're asking for it they were getting them the client was asking them to do this sure yeah no I understand I think but I think it's this is a sense of honesty hey sis I going you are smarter you're in a room you have acquired knowledge first of all yeah there's no substitute for a question we can talk all day about you know plugins and and great rooms and speakers and stuff but acquired knowledge will win every single day I'll go on a quick quick thing here I did a mix off with several mixers at the insistence of a label seven mixers mixed they were like these an end and I won't say who lost but four of the guys that were gone immediately when all level matched were all the world and you were up and coming hot guy of the week or girl of the week yeah the two that were left and eventually one will Tim Palmer won it blind test with the band and the second guy who'll remain nameless because didn't win...
that's not fair have equal 30 40 years experience it's not necessarily about what's young and hip and new and the best tool and this kind of stuff it really does come down to you can give somebody the tools I can tell you can tell me exactly how you mix something I can tell you exactly how to make something or be able to still completely do how do you feel about using a template to mix and let me preface it yeah good there's and we all know chris lord-alge ii does this and there's also a mixer in Nashville Billy Decker I don't know Billy's work I know Christmas Billy's had a number of big hits number ones so he does well and his mixes are done two to three hours because but he does everything in the box I'm like Chris okay so I grilled him on this okay so how do you do this he says you know I have this template I know it works and I don't care what kind of music again it can be metal it could be dancing whatever I can tell just by the waveform how much I have to gain clip it so it's going to hit my compressor the way I want it etc and this apparently works for him he did this because he only wanted to work a nine-to-five because he wanted to be home with his kids at night wonderful way to work and it works for him because he has number ones so people are going to him what's your thoughts there's eight I'll start from the end he has number ones and people are going to work begats work yeah that's the first one so...
it's looking backwards right so I think that's very important it's important for everybody here if you're working and you're doing good work you'll get more work yeah so that's the first thing and you get more opportunity so I'm not taking anything away from him but I think that's important as well because that doesn't often get discussed if you have a number one single your chances of getting another one number one single just went up like a million times yeah absolutely so I think that's also important because opportunity is is the mother of invention you start making decisions based on what the opportunities are the kind of work you get so I think that's that that's a very important thing to working answering your question in Reverse yeah secondly templates definitely save time in as much as if you're getting consistent amount of stuff and you don't have to literally just output one two three four five six seven you know bus this bus that I do have a certain amount of templates because when my lead vocal comes in I have a lot of sends on different reverbs and delays and the same thing with drums and stuff so what I'll do is I'll have a repeat amount of things because I have a lexicon and you know what works for you so it works for me and so I think it's important templates are important for people for workflow but I understand where you're going and the question that you're asking because...
there's also we were talking off-camera and it will remain nameless so it was returned off-camera earlier about a specific mixer who's so tied up in a way of doing things that his sound is very influential on the mix not even because I think about Chris's mixes he's makes my stuff and it still has my personality of yeah have your personality everybody's comes out of it the way that he mixes still maintains the integrity of the recording yeah there are some mixers that sound like they mixed it more than then Chris's does you might not so yeah and one thing one mix that we had who has beyond a template has such a complex way of mixing with busing and all this kind of stuff influence took the sound from a very woman say modern but a very like upfront kind of thing and kind of gave it a little bit of a cloudy to me at least kind of sound that took away from what we were trying to achieve now we did end up getting what we wanted with that guy well some songs were fourteen recalls in to sort of cajole it but that's kind of the one extreme most guys or girls that I work with that have mixed external stuff from me we've always ended up far quicker getting a result that's has the integrity of the original recording so in reality templates aren't necessarily bad because they will save you save somebody a lot of time like you know getting from A to B but in some instances it's a little harder yeah right to work around somebody's template...
depending on what it is and I think that actually goes back to what we're talking about earlier between mixing with the template on a console as opposed to mixing in addy aw we're different do W is are a lot easier and a template to snap it out somebody comes back to you and says I really don't like that vocal sound I want it to be brighter darker left right pink purple whatever it might be you can change that a hundred times quicker than the routing through the ssl with split up and bust over here and this patched over there and blah blah blah and yeah and that's bust through this bus and this blah blah blah and hits that compressor like this and all summed back in with this mole and that parallel I mean that's like a I'll see I have a great question I have a version of that and what I'll do is I'll have a project template where I'll go through in the first song kind of figure out what works and this is assuming now that it's a band that's played together so all the songs sort of sound the same and usually will in a project and off that first song I'll pretty much figure out okay if I want this sound to stay for the rest of the record which usually you do sometimes not but usually then that's my template and then I'll recall that at least as a starting place for all the other songs you might not stay there but it's a starting place so it's a modified version it does save time because once you figure that first...
but mastering engineers do the same thing they work really hard on the first song they figure out the EQ and then everything else is fairly easy from there is it except if it's a compilation for instance where there's different mixers and different environments but if it's a the same album coming from the same

produce

r artists usually it's fairly easy yeah I don't yeah I think that's the the I would say fault but that that lies with the

produce

r the engineer and the mixer yeah you know I would say as a whole possible tangent here I mean that comes down to what people are always talking about with the classic albums how you put on revolver and you're like here's a song with just a horn section not even a band member yeah here's a song with

acoustic

guitar and orchestra yeah here's a song with you know taxman which sounds like indie rock okay yeah might as well be Smashing Pumpkins Gish here you know it's like this all of this different variety and you sure as heck know if I gave it a Gavin and Reuben to master every song and they've done that they went back and did the George Harrison catalog every single song would acquire require sorry a lot of different analysis but these days and it's probably just as much fan driven genre driven whatever it is now there is this sort of mentality labels very much as a

produce

r I can tell you labels have got a lot of problem because if they get a hit song they kind of want the next album...
to have ten versions of that hit song I'm kidding you know but it's sort of always been like that especially in the more modern in the mobile nature of labels yeah I mean I always hop on and my viewers will laugh at me silently or very out loud I always harp on about what my favorite personal band is Queen and I was taught about the game which is a 1980 album and the reason why I choose 1980 is a year because there's nobody alive that ever talks about 1980s being a great year yeah music yeah it was go summer yeah 67 76 for punk in England everybody talks about maybe 90 to 91 nevermind all this kind of stuff but 1980 the game had four massive hit singles obvious ones played the game classic Queen save me classic queen another one bites the dust disco yeah that's where it's a little thing called love 50s rock and roll yeah you know completely different genres and nobody everybody and another one bites the dust and crazy little thing called love or two of the most played radio songs of all time and they're on the same album Queen can get away with it then because they were a massive success that being said the mentality was different and now you wonder if an A&R guy would let that go through yeah they actually technically they were a success in America it died off massively for them they'd had a little bit of success around the Bohemian Rhapsody time but it hadn't really connected and it came back quite dramatically because they were able to...
get on radio with another one bites the dust got crossover surgery and the fact that they were able to take that risk and they had pushed back from their label at the time talking labels of like you can't do disco there are a bunch of you know dudes from England you know so I think that I I think it's a great song as a great song you know it was their take though no icon disco and that's always been the secret it's the synergy of of genres it's your take on whatever is happening and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but when it works it's it's fantastic oh I always loved world music but not indigenous world I loved it when it took whatever was the style of the the region and took western music and put it together because there's always he a Gabriel is that Oh absolutely undisputed king no kidding no kidding any place so much respect to his odds absolutely but again you got something and still do there's so much interesting things that happen when you get that melding of the John I agree I think it's it's important I've had a lot of these discussions and I try to incorporate a lot of our Q&A s and stuff because that's really to me what we should always be trying to do is push the boundaries yeah and whether it I mean you know Zeppelin you know the heavy rock band or a rock band it's like I think Jimmy Page said just fairly recently a few years ago but 75% of our records of

acoustic

guitars yeah most of...
your songs or or when you think it's heavy it's one electric guitar bass and drums this fairly clean sometimes and it's funny because what people considered as a heavy guitar sound is now a we've considered every today and back then it was you know guitar through a Marshall and turned up but that's a clean sound yeah yeah yeah I see DC back in black highway to hell yeah absolutely the Metallica came along and it was like this five amp stack wall of get hit you over the head you know kind of stuff and that was the new heavy and changed the world yeah absolutely yep all right this has been absolutely fantastic we could talk all day we could and so we should do another one where we do talk all day just you name it you call it Marvis well thank you ever so much

Bobby

I really appreciate it please has ever leave a bunch of comments and questions below I'd like to know all your thoughts you know we specifically came here to listen to talk a lot about like the whole process that we do here leading up to mastering because I have a very strong belief that I don't like the word experts but I think people here with a lot of acquired knowledge you know a mastering engineers are really the last stop for me I learned more from mastering than I do probably for my own mixing I agree Marvis have a wonderful time recording a mixing leave a bunch of questions and comments below