4 @Codesmith Grads Share Their Unique Career Paths
all right lovely well let's get started hi everyone thank you for joining i'm liz i will send an iran course report which is a resource for students who are choosing a coding bootcamp if you haven't looked at course report yet this is my one shameless plug i do it in all of our videos you can use our directory to find schools that fit your learning style you can check out our blog for interviews with students and alumni like this one from boot camps around the world we've got application tips classroom tours all of the things so if you are researching coding bootcamps then you are undoubtedly thinking about what your
careerwill look like after a boot camp we talk to you know huge banks and you know the tech giants that hire boot camp
gradsand we also see boot camp
gradstaking jobs at startups and smaller companies and moving into leadership positions really quickly there it really runs the gamut and you know the company that you choose to work for after a boot camp really depends on your personal goals so today we are joined by four boot camp alumni who all took different
pathsafter they graduated from
codesmithwhich is a coding boot camp in new york in la now they have a really solid remote boot camp um so yeah for alumni and we're going to talk to all of them so i want to introduce everyone really quick bessie went to
codesmithin october 2019 and is now a software engineer at ibm knock and uh went to
codesmithin may 2020 and is now a software...
engineer at fight dance uh joelle went to
codesmithin may 2019 and is now a software engineer at ready and geo attended
codesmithin may 2020 and is now a software engineer at arcadia so you know everyone on this panel has graduated in the last couple of years and is already kind of really you know into
careerso i've got a ton of questions for all about the differences between working at a powerhouse like established company versus a startup with a lot of potential for growth so i want to hop into it but let's start with a little introduction could you each of you just introduce yourself and tell us what you were up to before
codesmithand why you chose
codesmithout of all of the boot camps hi everyone um i am messy uh as you heard before
workshops before everyone did it's a great like kind of on-ramp and um gio do you want to go next what were you doing before
codesmithyeah sure so um before co-smith um i was in the marketing world for seven years i graduated from nyu and i had an internship in marketing even though i started architecture and um that internship ended up being a full-time job offer so i was like oh might as well just take this no stress and like looking for jobs but next thing you know seven years past and i'm like what am i doing with my life do i even like marketing um i did enjoy like the project management aspect of it i did work on
theirwebsite on the marketing side and kind of like bessie i wanted to be on the builder side and the thing that helped me pick
codesmithwhen i started thinking about
careerchange was a friend of mine rudy did
codesmitharound the time i think joel was there and he you know he graduated and got a good job and i was like okay that gave me the push um and as well as going to like bessie said the hard parts the easy parts i did the um the prep course i did all of it just so i could feel ready too and i just like the instructors how they taught and that confirmed it for me that i wanted to do coach move very smart joel how about you what were you up to before code smith hey guys uh i'm joelle uh before
codesmithi was actually a graduate student i was also studying marketing and uh with all of the i guess just the coursework itself i started to...
codesmithuh rather late i would say um i i was i went through another boot camp prior to
codesmithand when i found out about code smith and i went to a hard parts i realized how much more information there was under the hood that i needed to learn and i think that sparked my interest and uh and that was it i i studied for for
codesmithand and went through the program hey i am not um so uh before code smith i was a full-time pharmacist and i did keep working as a part-time pharmacist even throughout the time i was at
codesmithum every other sunday um but i chose
codesmithbecause i always wanted to try coding but um i never really had the chance to um and i learned from my friend who went to another bootcamp that there is such thing as bookkeeps and that's when i started looking into different book camps and i saw the sur reports about
codesmithand that's when i...
codesmithis it easy because you were doing that intro course with them already uh how did you find the application process just really quickly um i guess i could jump in on this one first um i think code smith is known to have like a harder to entry into the immersive program which is also really good because it makes sure you're in a good place to start the boot camp which i also like that um they're like actually vetting the people they're letting in and making sure like you're setting setting them up for success by making sure you're at this level um because um yeah through the hard parts and it's not even just going to hard parts once you you have to go over and over to make sure these things you learn are solidified in your head and you have a mental model so i would say it's not the...
easiest to get into but with practice and diligence and studying um you um they give you chances um to get in yeah bessie is the one that interviewed me into code smith actually amazing i love that a couple of you like heard about the boot camp from a friend too that can be like a really great way to kind of understand if it's the right program for you um knox so you and geo both attended code smith in 2020 so i'm assuming that was remotely and during this very tumultuous uh last year with kova 19. so what was the experience like learning remotely and learning online i can go first um i believe we were the first chord to join fully remotely and this was back when we didn't know how long cove it was going to last so i even considered delaying joining code smith to later but um i just did it because i had already quit my job already and i was ready to fully uh become immersed in the program and um study and but looking back it couldn't have been better because um i didn't have to commute and i could have spent more time learning the concepts and finishing off my projects um so it was a very good time and i i didn't expect us to be able to become so close close with each other in our cohort um even with the remote setting but we we were and we were able to and we still are in contact with each other we still fully support each other in other job processes and everything so it was good yeah i agree with knock me knock we're in the same cohort and he...
was actually like that was the thing i was nervous about i was super excited about being code smith in person because i saw the office i saw everyone like getting along talking each other in person uh making friends like that so i was excited for that so i was a little bummed when kova did happen and like knox said i thought we didn't know how long covert would be so i'm like oh maybe by halfway through the program we'll get to be back in person um famous last words but um yeah but uh ended up being a lot better than it exceeded my expectations like it was um uh making friends was actually not too bad knock was actually the first person that reached out to me and just say hi and like we became close friends since then um and then also it's just like yeah you didn't have to worry about the commuting in the morning you could focus more on studying after classes were done and uh everyone became really close over um zoom somehow that when we meet in person it seems like you're it's the same person it's the same personality so it's been a it was a good experience that's good to hear and bessie and joelle did you each go to
codesmithin new york or l.a you want to go new york both in new york yes amazing okay cool wonderful all right so i i mean everyone here we know spoiler alert you're all working in tech now as you know developers engineers that's awesome so obviously like you know cozmo did work for you in that way but could you...
just think about like maybe your biggest challenge at
codesmithlike was this an easy process has this been you know a simple like smooth kind of process into you know changing your
careerinto software engineering and if not like what was your biggest roadblock or challenge and how did you kind of face that throughout the last year big question yeah i'll take that one over i i think i come in with a little bit of a
uniqueexperience coming from a different boot camp i think the uh the biggest mental block was um the imposter syndrome any time that i didn't understand something i i think it's very it's very easy for you to um get down to yourself especially when you've had prior experience coming from a different boot camp and you should know this and i think that that's something that i didn't give myself a lot of time for and whenever i speak with anyone going through a boot camp or looking to study and learn i i definitely stress the the compassionate side and being kind to yourself and being kind to everyone around you i think that's the that was the hardest thing for for me to wrap my head around considering uh you know i should know this i've i've gone through a program like this before but in reality sometimes uh things click in different ways and looking back on it now i've i've used those strategies even at work as well to just be kind of compassionate when learning new skills i think overall it was not an easy process...
uh but once you learn how to be compassionate and kind and work with your fellow classmates because we're all going through it together it became a lot easier of a of a journey i can talk a little bit about how i felt um and that's not necessarily just
codesmithbut i would say the field in general i think there is such a vastness of information and roads that you can take and for me that is a little bit of a challenge it's also a perk of the field right like you can always keep learning you can always if you decide something is not good for you go in a different direction but me personally um i enjoy knowing stuff and knowing how to do stuff or you know just that feeling of not necessarily being out there and like having no idea of what's going on and sometimes the field can feel like that so we think just maybe a little bit to what joel just said too uh going to the kindness of okay as long as you're doing the best you can be doing you're actually going to be fine but it's just that enormousness of you know information out there kindness and compassion while you're while you're learning new skills i think that's really good advice um wonderful okay so when you each graduated i've been asking people this question more often recently um because i think it's kind of indicative of like what a boot camp is um is geared towards so what kinds of jobs did each of you feel prepared to apply for when you graduated from
you like i'm only looking for senior engineering jobs i am ready for like an internship i you know somewhere in between or even certain companies like what did you feel like you were ready to apply for i can talk about it first um so coming from a non-engineering background um i didn't expect myself to be ready for any kind of job to be honest even after
codesmithi didn't think that i was ready at all but looking back um i think coach smith definitely prepared me as a software engineer and i was ready definitely ready to take any jobs and mid junior to mid-level jobs and possibly some people in the senior level jobs as well um we learn a lot a lot of it like we gain a lot of different knowledge and information through
codesmithand um back then i didn't realize because there was just like vesti said the vastness of information out there just um is it it's going to give you a lot of imposter syndrome and that's why you think you're not good enough but um not everybody knows everything and i i was definitely able to um get on my job and start working right away that's cool that you kind of have that like reflection time or like hindsight to look back and say okay right when i graduated i was like i don't know what like i'm not prepared for anything and then you know with a year under your belt you can say you know i was definitely ready for like a mid-level job and like i knew that i could hit the ground running it's probably good...
advice for other people who are just starting
careersearch as well um that compassion again um did anyone else have an idea about like exactly what they wanted to like the types of jobs that they wanted to apply for when they graduated um yeah i could say that i was definitely cosmetic i after coach smith i also did a the fellowship which is a extension three months pro program where you teach where you could teach lectures mentor the new residents and give some approach lectures and do some algorithms with the residents so after finishing the bootcamp and then also the fellowship with just an extra three months i definitely felt ready um for a mid-level job and i felt like cozmo did a great job in preparing you for that for me myself personally i didn't want the stress of a senior level job right out of code smith because i wanted to still like go into a job and not think that they'll know like it's the imposter syndrome like i need to know everything i'm a senior engineer they'll expect me to know all this stuff so i'm like i'll be fine with my first job being mid-level and learning from there and going from there so that was my goal but uh yeah that's my experience i'll pick you back off that really quick uh
codesmithdefinitely just prepares you at least for me uh same boat i uh stayed on as a fellow and i took every in any interview uh to get exposure and practice did i feel ready for a senior job or senior level uh engineer job...
uh i i would probably say no however being in final stages with a few of them showed me that i was so it was very interesting to uh have the the separation between what i believed and what other companies were willing to uh to to have me on the team floor really quickly as well uh i would like to add to what joel just said that it really depends on your situation but also the companies you're applying to like my situation was a little bit
uniquei have you know worked with code smith in various capacities and different projects um but at the same time it depended also on a company so i would say definitely mid to senior level roles um are good to you know shoot for afterwards that is a really good point as you're going through the job search like i'm sure it becomes way more clear understanding that like different companies are going to um place people in different like levels and it totally depends on on the size of the company so many things um amazing well yo congratulations to all of you because you're now all working and fantastic jobs it was fun to do a little bit of linkedin stalking and see what you're all up to now so bessie you were working in non-profits before
codesmithand you're now a software engineer at ibm knock you were a pharmacist before as you said and now you're a software engineer at bite dance joelle you were an mba student before code smith who had done another boot camp and now you're a software engineer at ready and...
then geo you were working in marketing and now you're a software engineer at arcadia so really cool before after stories um bessie you're working for a you know huge established company knock your at fight dance could you could y'all tell us a little bit about your jobs now um the teams that you're working on and obviously you don't have to give any company secrets away but like what's your day-to-day like and what's the culture like in your company yeah absolutely so ibm is ibm there goes uh a lot without saying a lot but um a little bit about my team and what i work on i work on a tool that actually help marketers uh ease
theirday to day and it's sort of a hub for our marketers it's an internal tool um so it's really nice to know that i'm working on a real world tool that helps someone each and every day um and for someone that came from non-profits having that meaning and having that value behind what you do every day is really important to me um in terms of team and culture i would say it would probably be different if if we were not in a pandemic world but obviously in the world we're in everything is pretty much remote so we all try as best as possible to be connected and to also leave some time for that culture building we have coffee chats where we talk about anything else but work and we also play games for example stay connected over slack but overall i would say my team is very distributed and very global and i enjoy...
that because other than that i wouldn't have had the chance to work with these people so um how many people are like on your your engineering team so depending on how you look at it it's five developers um there are other team act team members as well but five developers cool is everyone working remotely right now i'm assuming yes okay cool um and knock tell us what your day-to-day is like and um and how you got the job like was it through a connection with
codesmithor um how did you find your job at by dance um so i applied to more than i would say 80 or 100 positions after i graduated from
codesmithum i basically went for larger companies because i thought the branding would look good on my resume for the future and also uh with the skill set that i had um i i was i thought i was better suitable for larger companies um so i probably like mostly only apply to positions at larger companies and um and this particular role um i actually um spam apply probably like more than 10 positions that might dance um and this was one of the positions that offer that i was offered an interview for um and i i went through
theirinterview process was a little different from other companies because other companies had initial round of phone screening and then later on one day of final rounds of interviews and this company they had me go on maybe like one round of interview per week and it lasted about like a month and a half to get through the whole thing um and the the kind of...
work that that my team does is that i work under
theiri.t department it's interesting because by dance is better known for its application tech talk but we have different services and platforms and to support that we need a lot of internal tools um and what we're building is uh what's called an sd-wan uh struct infrastructure um it's a that's it stands for software-defined wide area network and it's a pretty interesting technology that all the big companies probably all need and especially now that everything's going into the clouds and everyone working remotely um but it's it'll take too long to explain the whole thing it's a it's a very interesting concept but yeah that's the biggest uh project that i'm working on um along with other i.t department projects that's cool so noc you investi are both kind of working on internal tools at these large companies that's really interesting and betsy how long did your application process take at ibm um i would say a couple of weeks actually um it was relatively fast turned around i would say um yeah and and not okay so so bessie your team is about five developers not how many developers do you work with like day to day it depends on how you look at it um so our team is like 24 people i believe growing um
theirour goal is to probably get to like 50 or so um but the people that i closely work with um probably no more than 10 people um and our the team is spread a lot across...
the globe and because of the time difference it's so hard to talk to everyone can get to know each other um but the like i said the i i technically work for the mountain view office which is in silicon valley and the there i think there is a uh the unmight that my close group um there about like six or seven people okay cool and joella and gio you are both working for i guess relatively smaller companies if you compare it to um to ibm but did you both go into
codesmithlike wanting to work for a specific type of company how did you approach that yeah uh good question uh absolutely not i didn't think i was gonna go through uh code smith to work for a startup it's actually funny that the two things i said to myself when graduating was i didn't want to work for a startup and i didn't want to work remote and here we are today so uh i i think for me um i was interviewing during the beginning stages of the pandemic so when i finally finished my fellowship with
codesmithuh it was actually january 31st so i had the full month of february and i was doing interviews and uh i was doing the exact process that cosmos has us do everything was going great mid-march um things changed a lot of plans changed a lot of companies rescinded positions um and that's where i found myself by the end of march and i said well if the program is going to work we're going to put it to the test now and when i went back in april and uh just continue to apply are my company ready...
responders a company i work for uh is a healthcare company and uh considering the the times they uh they were definitely looking to hire quickly and and looking to get uh new engineers uh on board as quick as they can and for me both of my parents being first responders i i think that was very important to kind of be able to have some sort of impact especially during this time and i think that's what drove me to to say you know what let's let's do the startup gig you know let's let's try it out you're gonna have a lot of impact uh i'm on the product team so everything that we use from internal to external is uh worked on by us and uh i work with two engineers uh daily i think the total product team is about 25 of us per se so uh actually this week we just launched our second product um right now it's in the miami market live right now as well so what is that product like what are you what are you building yeah okay good so um this product actually was for when you call in to make an appointment uh we handle that whole process for all of our uh customers and our reps basically anybody that calls in we need to make appointments we need to integrate with a different company to set up the schedule for our responders as well to just go to the houses set
theirschedule up so we are on the front lines of uh basically our our company without this product uh everything would have to be done using uh older technology and a little bit more difficult i...
would say with pain points but right now we're making it a lot easier for our our responders to go out there sacrifice you know
theirhealth and safety to help others to to have home care and home aid so i just seeing that launch in general from last year launching our first products of this year it's it's it's been a lot but it's been exciting knowing that this is helping a lot of communities especially under served and underprivileged communities for sure so cool so cool um and jio what are you working on today at arcadia yeah sure so um at arcadia it's a renewable energy tech company so um i'm part of the growth team which is um i work with two other engineers we have a product manager and an engineering manager and the cool thing about the girl squad is we we've worked closely with the marketing team which is um so they're really happy that i have that dual experience of being able to understand both sides of the experience and with the girl squad we're having a complete brand refresh for our company we just got a hundred million dollar funding yesterday which is amazing to hear which is awesome uh because of that uh we're exp at first we we were just focused with consumers um but now we're extending our offerings to businesses and developers um by extending our apis and things like that so because of that we're gonna uh we're redoing our website and i get to be part of that process which has been a lot of fun um...
with working on the marketing website with the marketing team but also a cool new thing is that
theirbackend is in ruby and in
codesmithwe learned node in express so which is a different back-end technology so it's been really awesome learning new technologies and um putting it to work and creating this awesome new website and seeing it hopefully go up by it'll be up in october-ish november-ish but uh yeah so that's been a lot of fun to work on that's really cool and um i was going to ask this question next but and you just answered it a little bit jio are you all using like exactly what you learned at
codesmithnode obviously or have you been learning a ton on the job so joe you are learning ruby now that's exciting is anyone else like working in completely new technologies that they didn't even learn at the boot camp so um i'm also using ruby on our back end for one of the projects um and in the front end we're using react which is what code smith taught us so um it was great because uh on one side i knew the technology and on the other side i was able to pick up a new piece of technology it was uh even though it was not the same thing as node um a lot of the concepts that we learned from
codesmithapplied with uh uh ruby on rails as well um and there are other because because of the project that i'm working on is related to networking there's a lot of networking technologies that i had to learn about um but my day consists of...
probably like 40 of researching and learning new technologies as well so um yeah i had to i did have to learn a lot but i also had a lot of information and knowledge from code smith as well betsy do you feel like on the job you are learning like using like exactly what you learned that code smith i mean i think this is a huge maybe a bit of a misconception about a boot camp is that you you learn this like specific tech stack and then like you go into your first job and that's exactly what you're using and you just kind of like you know in reality you're spending so much time learning and growing even after the you graduate so um what's been your experience yeah exactly um i was gonna say i don't have too much uh new information to add to the conversation so far but i would say um definitely my day is in node and react we do have other technologies as well that uh you know and i think depending on what your problem is you might probably need a different solution so new technologies are going to come up all the time so really it isn't necessarily about boxing yourself in a different or in the same world but it's more about having that mindset of okay something might be better for this particular use case so it doesn't necessarily matter what i currently feel comfortable in it matters what the best solution for the problem is so i'm going to pick up whatever is necessary well it sounds like you know you all went to different types of companies...
different sizes and everything i'm trying to draw some of the like similarities and differences it sounds like you know regardless of how huge the company is you're probably going to be working with like five to ten other developers on your team um on a day-to-day basis um but that maybe at a startup you know you're able to kind of touch more parts of the application whereas at a larger company you can actually really get super deep into something like you know one internal tool that's helping one of the one of the teams at your company any other differences that you can kind of see or that you would recommend to other students or graduates who are thinking like should i work for a startup or like work for a super you know established um like tech giant i would say keep an open mind um i didn't think that i wanted to do this for sure in terms of a startup however after a little bit over a year now uh it's been a great experience it feels almost dare i say like a boot camp all over again in terms of everyone um wanting to work together and everyone uh working on pieces together uh you're right i i definitely think that we do touch a lot more especially that first project i mean it was it was uh react front end express and note on the back end which made it easy uh to transition in um but yet i was touching everything whether it was uh using aws as well and these are things that code smith was teaching so i think that was a major help where because...
the startup is very all hands on deck it becomes a lot a lot more of a i would say a fun challenge of what's this week's goals going to be and what are you going to learn this week to continue to improve the product that you have a major stake in for sure i guess i'll also add that um it's a spectrum right like um i would say joelle's like seemed like he had to touch some devops works and things like that and my company when i started in may is is i would say more of a midsize company so like i'm only working on this under marketing website for example but there is a devops team there's a billing team so the thing i liked about the mid-size companies is that it's a little bit more structured than a smaller company um and like when i had orientation they had a whole checklist for me so i was like oh thank god like i have like a little bit structure but sometimes with smaller companies they just throw you in there and sometimes people love that people love to be just thrown in there and see if they can swim kind of thing other people if you know if you want more structure definitely go for like a midsize or larger company i kind of found a happy medium where like i could work on different parts of the company but they don't expect you to know everything kind of thing i'd like to add that it also really depends on your team and what you're working on even in a bigger company you could still have the feel of startup or camaraderie or i...
am able to work on you know different parts of the whatever stack or technology it might be um maybe a little bit of devops maybe a little bit of security whatever whatever it might be so it really depends on your team as well but i would second the point about a little bit more structure a little bit more established processes um you know depending on where you are working in something like agile or kanban or you know um giving you that structure as well in addition to the feel of a startup which i i think is really good um i think it really depends on the people that you work with because i think through interview processes you'll be able to see if you actually will be able to get along with the people that you that you interview with and if you do think that then i don't think the size of the company matters um personally the reason why i went for the bigger companies is like i said i want that branding but also because um i thought i was more suitable for bigger companies interview processes but um that was like probably like the only reasons that i had um i i didn't really have anything against smaller companies and i think um being able to touch on all the all different aspects of the business working in a small company uh what is a good uh skill set to have and under your belt and it'll help you grow maybe in your entrepreneurial aspect or any kind of aspect in your in your future
careerso um it really depends on the people you work with and that's...
why interview process is not only getting interviewed by the company but also you interviewing the companies so um yeah go going through the interviewing process and um getting the feel of whether you're going to belong there or not is the most important thing i think do code smith help any of y'all like figure out which company to work for um obviously you're doing like resume prep and you know kind of like getting ready to do those interviews but did did you turn to them for any like advice in terms of like what offer to accept um they do have um so the next thing about coast memphis they do have hiring support even after you graduate and it's like indefinite i know some places it's like only up to six months or something like that but that's the nice thing you could just reach out to the hiring team anytime and i remember when i was um interviewing i kind of kept them up to date um more than they wanted to maybe like i have this going on after this and this um but when i did get two offers um at the same time and i was telling them how they asked me they were actually curious of how each one went how did i feel about each one like it wasn't just about like the money but like nox said it's important you're interviewing them as well like how do you feel about the company itself so then like just kind of like talking to them about it was a nice way of just deciding on your own as well it wasn't they never told me though like pick this...
one or pick that one it was they always just were there to support you with ever questions or decisions you have to make i want to echo that for sure i think the support um they they really mean it when they say support and i think that um keeping that team just up to date on everything that was going on with with uh hiring itself was very easy for me um considering they were reaching out very often weekly making sure everything was okay i'm doing okay i had the resources i need uh so when i did get that offer i did call them and i did just ask more questions and just kind of clarify to make sure that i'm doing everything up to
theirprocess because you know they have a proven system that works and i don't want to deviate from that system so i think overall it it definitely uh helps just keeping that support there um for sure yeah joel i feel like your
careersearch job search in particular like really was a stress test probably for you but also for like the code smith system um so glad it worked out well okay my final question i asked everyone this looking back on i guess the last year or two years um would you say that
codesmithwas worth it for each of you or are you like i probably could have done this on my own without like paying tuition to do it i didn't really need all the support like what was it worth it yes 100 everything to that effect for sure um i it's been an absolute amazing pleasure i would say going through the program and and having the...
support having long lasting friends i still talk to people to this day still meet up to this day and just having that connection forever i think is one of the biggest aspects that we might not always remember right obviously the goal is to learn new skills to develop yourself however you're also developing your friendships and and your bonds forever so 100 i i definitely agree it's been uh it's exceeded my expectations for sure um i would definitely echo that as well it's 100 worth it for me um like i said i was i think a lot of people that go to coast line for like in
theirmid late 20s have a mid-life crisis or thinking about like for some people i should say so um i think uh i don't know where i would be without if i never made that
careerchange and co smith was definitely something i needed i like the structure like the instructors
theirway of teaching and like joel said all the friends you make is the most valuable part in my opinion for example like i still went on a trip to seattle with them we did water rafting and things like that so you keep those friends and then you know they're all at awesome companies too and they're they're only going to progress in
careerlike you are so you could all help each other out as you move through life together basically these are like lifelong relationships in the end of the day and it's just really it's just a really awesome experience and like the learning part was just one part of...
it um it's the friendships in the end so it's definitely worth it just for that definitely worth it for me i'm gonna say about 98 just to have a different percentage over here well let's go with that um why am i saying that because i think that to make a professional transition the residency is definitely amazing i've had a little bit of a
careers but uh one thing to note um for anyone who's trying to join is that um uh the three months of
codesmithwhen it says three...
months that's not the only time that you need to get into and start working at a company uh you'll need time to get into
codesmithand finish code smith and then after you're gonna have time off like applying and going through these application processes and finally getting hired and start working so um i think that's a good important thing to note before getting into
codesmiththat you will need that much time and there's also uncertainty of how long you'll be um uh without a job after uh code smith and um anyone who's trying to get into
codesmithshould know these things that beforehand so there there's no false hope in any in any aspect i just quickly want to agree with knock there because i think super important to make a plan not just jump in and saying this is going to change everything like i made in excel with two budget how much savings i had and before cosmic picking a cohort where i felt comfortable with the amount of savings and how much money i was going to have afterwards because you're not going to get a job right away after so super important um thanks knock for them so important yeah it takes about three to six months to get a job after a boot camp you know that just like in aggregate from from research but uh then like you were saying you know the application process can be a month and a half long like budget for more like three to nine months of of the the whole process which and the grand scheme of things pretty cool for...